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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #1742
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    token101 wrote: »
    We elected a Government knowing this was coming.
    enda kenny wrote:
    It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home.

    ???


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    #1743
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Not every country was charging up to 9% stamp duty when someone bought a house.

    Lots of countries have stamp duty
    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Not every country is raising this money to pay off unsecured secondary bondholders in in their bankrupt banks..

    Yes they are, they just don't have the levels of debt we do. Lots of US banks were bailed out, UK banks too. We are a basket case now, we'll be like a Third World country if no one lends us money. Then you'll know hardship.
    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Not every country is taxing their citizens to death (literally in some cases).

    Get off the stage FFS. Literally is it? Show me one death cert that says 'Death by taxes' :rolleyes:
    gerryo777 wrote: »
    In a couple of years it could well be thousands, add to that water charges and every other charge they can think of to put on the family home and it will be thousands.

    What difference does it make if it's a family home or not? Stop drinking the ULA communist coolaid. 1000's is unlikely. €100 is a reasonable amount of council tax. Don't pay sure if you don't want to. They'll fine you meaning you'll owe more and raise more money, or you'll go prison and they'll waste money imprisoning you meaning they'll need to raise it for everyone else. Either way you'll pay ;)


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    #1744
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    Hijpo wrote: »
    ???

    It was in the IMF agreement. Which the government said they would implement. I don't see your difficulty here.


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    #1745
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Does anyone know exactly where the money that is collected, will be going to exactly?
    (Genuine question)

    I certainly hope its not to the likes of the following:
    THE GOVERNMENT SPENT more than €38 million on legal fees last year, according to provisional figures provided by the Taoiseach’s office.
    The legal bill of €38,233,000 covers fees for barristers and solicitors as well as expert witnesses and stenographers. However, €23,768,000 of the total went to barristers.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/heres-how-much-the-government-spent-on-legal-fees-last-year-333903-Jan2012/


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    #1746
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    token101 wrote: »
    Lots of countries have stamp duty
    Not like ours was in the past decade.



    Yes they are, they just don't have the levels of debt we do. Lots of US banks were bailed out, UK banks too. We are a basket case now, we'll be like a Third World country if no one lends us money. Then you'll know hardship.
    We are going to be like a third world country if we keep along this path.


    Get off the stage FFS. Literally is it? Show me one death cert that says 'Death by taxes' :rolleyes:
    Disingenuous.



    What difference does it make if it's a family home or not? Stop drinking the ULA communist coolaid. 1000's is unlikely. €100 is a reasonable amount of council tax. Don't pay sure if you don't want to. They'll fine you meaning you'll owe more and raise more money, or you'll go prison and they'll waste money imprisoning you meaning they'll need to raise it for everyone else. Either way you'll pay ;)
    As I've said before, €100 this year, who know's next year. In the UK when they pay council tax it includes bin collection and a lot more services than we get here. Over here we'll have to pay a different tax for each service.
    BTW, I won't pay, I'm quite happy to go to court/jail if I have to and thats nothing to do with Clare Daly or Joe Higgins or any of the 'lefties' that were mentioned.
    I won't pay as long as we are giving our money away and destroying our society in order to pay off unsecured secondary bondholders in our bankrupt banks.


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    #1747
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Biggins wrote: »
    Does anyone know exactly where the money that is collected, will be going to exactly?
    (Genuine question)

    I certainly hope its not to the likes of the following:


    http://www.thejournal.ie/heres-how-much-the-government-spent-on-legal-fees-last-year-333903-Jan2012/

    The Local Government Fund, see page 39 here.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

    Financial Implications of the Bill
    The Bill has no direct financial implications for the Exchequer as
    the revenue from the €100 household charge will be lodged to the
    Local Government Fund out of which funding will be provided by
    the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local
    Government to local authorities in the form of General-Purpose
    Grants.
    It is estimated that there are some 1.6 million residential properties
    that will be liable to the charge. If the self-assessment household
    charge is paid in respect of all liable properties income could amount
    to €160 million annually. In common with many new taxation
    measures, the actual amount of the yield from the household charge
    will only be known in light of experience of collection of the charge.
    Steps will be taken to minimise the costs arising with
    implementation of the household charge. Payment will be accepted
    through a web-site and through the post by the LGMA.
    An Roinn Comhshaol, Pobail agus Rialtais Áitiúil,
    Nollaig, 2011.


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    #1748
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    As I've said before, €100 this year, who know's next year. In the UK when they pay council tax it includes bin collection and a lot more services than we get here. Over here we'll have to pay a different tax for each service.
    BTW, I won't pay, I'm quite happy to go to court/jail if I have to and thats nothing to do with Clare Daly or Joe Higgins or any of the 'lefties' that were mentioned.
    I won't pay as long as we are giving our money away and destroying our society in order to pay off unsecured secondary bondholders in our bankrupt banks.

    What money have we given away exactly?

    We're borrowing to fund the country.

    A crash course in simple arithmetic would do wonders in this thread.


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    #1749
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,933 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    black francis wrote: »
    What money have we given away exactly?

    We're borrowing to fund the country.

    A crash course in simple arithmetic would do wonders in this thread.

    On January 25th the government is due to handover €1.25 billion to unsecured Anglo Irish Bank bondholders. In fact over the course of 2012 alone the state will pay Anglo bondholders €6.3 billion (of which €2.6 Billion is to unsecured bondholders), in addition to nearly €3.1 billion to cover the promissory notes issued to Anglo to allow them pay of other creditors, meaning that this year alone Anglo will cost the Irish taxpayer over €9 billion.


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    #1750
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    token101 wrote: »
    Hijpo wrote: »
    ???

    It was in the IMF agreement. Which the government said they would implement. I don't see your difficulty here.

    If your that opposed to a specific tax then you come up with another way of collecting the money, it just goes to show that the only reason he was so opposed to the tax is because he was only making trouble for the government in power at the time.


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    #1751
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    tayto lover wrote: »
    On January 25th the government is due to handover €1.25 billion to unsecured Anglo Irish Bank bondholders. In fact over the course of 2012 alone the state will pay Anglo bondholders €6.3 billion (of which €2.6 Billion is to unsecured bondholders), in addition to nearly €3.1 billion to cover the promissory notes issued to Anglo to allow them pay of other creditors, meaning that this year alone Anglo will cost the Irish taxpayer over €9 billion.

    Once again the tayto man misses the point spectacularly.

    Where do you think all this money has come from?




    Hint - it's not the Irish taxpayer.


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    #1752
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    The more the shills here try to insult people who are taking a principled stand against paying this imoral tax for billionaire bondholders, the more I know not paying is the right thing to do.


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    #1753
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    black francis wrote: »
    Once again the tayto man misses the point spectacularly.

    Where do you think all this money has come from?

    The point is it does not (and should not) have to come from anywhere.

    It's the equivalent of borrowing from a loanshark to buy Christmas presents for your dead children.


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    #1754
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The Local Government Fund, see page 39 here.

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

    Cheers. :)


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    #1755
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    black francis wrote: »
    What money have we given away exactly?

    We're borrowing to fund the country.

    A crash course in simple arithmetic would do wonders in this thread.

    Ok, simple arithmetic. Bailout €85 billion, bankrupt banks circa. €70 billion. Work it out....


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    #1756
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    black francis wrote: »
    Once again the tayto man misses the point spectacularly.

    Where do you think all this money has come from?




    Hint - it's not the Irish taxpayer.
    Who has to pay it back? Hint - the Irish taxpayer.


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    #1757
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Who has to pay it back? Hint - the Irish taxpayer.

    You think we'll be paying back €85 billion ( probably more after bailout 2)?


    Hint - we won't be.


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    #1758
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    black francis wrote: »
    You think we'll be paying back €85 billion ( probably more after bailout 2)?


    Hint - we won't be.

    Exactly! We agree then...


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    #1759
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    The Quadratic Equation wrote: »
    The more the shills here try to insult people who are taking a principled stand against paying this imoral tax for billionaire bondholders, the more I know not paying is the right thing to do.

    Shur if it saves you the bother of having to think things out for yourself, you might as well use that method to decide your actions.


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    #1760
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Exactly! We agree then...

    I somehow doubt we'd agree on much.

    But anyone who thinks we'll be paying our creditors back in full is mistaken.


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    #1761
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    black francis wrote: »
    Shur if it saves you the bother of having to think things out for yourself, you might as well use that method to decide your actions.
    Pretty much how the powers that be work out our strategy....Let merkel and sarcosy decide what actions we take.


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    #1762
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    black francis wrote: »
    I somehow doubt we'd agree on much.

    But anyone who thinks we'll be paying our creditors back in full is mistaken.
    You must know something that nobody else does then....


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    #1763
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    You must know something that nobody else does then....

    Maths?


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    #1764
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    black francis wrote: »
    gerryo777 wrote: »
    You must know something that nobody else does then....

    Maths?
    how about the govenment gives each household 2.50 and we each do the lotto and any money we win we give it to them to pay off the debt?
    Gambleing got us into this mess, it might just get us out of it.


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    #1765
    Gareth2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Gareth2011


    Cant wait to see when they put up income tax even more than an extra 1 or 2% because this tax was shot down. How else they going to make up the shortfall? You people who arent going to pay it refuse to pay the raised income tax too? Grow the fcuk up. Like crying babies well you know what your day will come when you will be wishing you had of paid it because you not paying will fcuk the rest of us up who are LAW ABIDING.


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    #1766
    GT_TDI_150
    Registered Users Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    Can people not see the €100 charge isnt the issue here, the issue is that you will be sticking your name down for the property tax which will be based on the value of the house soon. That tax could end up being 500-1000-2000 a year, god only knows what figure theyll come up with. And then we are talking about figures people really Cant afford!


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    #1767
    eth0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭eth0


    Gareth2011 wrote: »
    Cant wait to see when they put up income tax even more than an extra 1 or 2% because this tax was shot down. How else they going to make up the shortfall? You people who arent going to pay it refuse to pay the raised income tax too? Grow the fcuk up. Like crying babies well you know what your day will come when you will be wishing you had of paid it because you not paying will fcuk the rest of us up who are LAW ABIDING.

    Can't wait till they come up with a solution that doesn't involve us paying 5bn+ every year in interest to help out European, Chinese investors & banks

    Can't wait for them to realise that the only people left in this country clearly can't pay back the mountain of debt we've been handed.
    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    Can people not see the €100 charge isnt the issue here, the issue is that you will be sticking your name down for the property tax which will be based on the value of the house soon. That tax could end up being 500-1000-2000 a year, god only knows what figure theyll come up with. And then we are talking about figures people really Cant afford!

    Its been repeated so many times. The people who fall for this are the same short-sighted ones who are enticed by 0% interest credit cards* thinking it really is 0%

    *For the first 12 months


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    #1768
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,933 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Gareth2011 wrote: »
    Cant wait to see when they put up income tax even more than an extra 1 or 2% because this tax was shot down. How else they going to make up the shortfall? You people who arent going to pay it refuse to pay the raised income tax too? Grow the fcuk up. Like crying babies well you know what your day will come when you will be wishing you had of paid it because you not paying will fcuk the rest of us up who are LAW ABIDING.

    "It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home" - Enda Kenny, 1994


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    #1769
    irishben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭irishben


    Every country in Europe has a property tax.Services provided by the state need to be financed, at the end of the day (Sorry Keano). I shall pay it as i can afford it. People who cannot will not.


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    #1770
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    tayto lover wrote: »
    "It is morally wrong, unjust and unfair to tax a persons home" - Enda Kenny, 1994

    "How about Enda swallowing his pride and putting his people first by going back to the I.M.F. and telling them that austerity is killing his country. " - the Tayto Man's alternative, post 1324.


    Still gives me a laugh.


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    #1771
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,933 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    black francis wrote: »
    "How about Enda swallowing his pride and putting his people first by going back to the I.M.F. and telling them that austerity is killing his country. " - the Tayto Man's alternative, post 1324.


    Still gives me a laugh.

    Aw shucks, am i rubbing you up the wrong way ?
    Funny enough I heard some economist say the same thing on the radio yesterday. But that would not suit the F.G. mentality as they would rather turn over and let Angela and her cronies rub their bellies and hear them purr. What good boys they are.


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