Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Hijpo

Hijpo wrote: »

yes because i stopped giving my child his pocket money

And iv been told, by the citizens advice centre that were not entitled to mortgage relief because my partner works full time.

im an example

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

im an example

Well sure you can afford €2 then if your partner is working full time, do you have a mobile? broadband? tv? landline? drink? smoke? maybe you could reduce your outgoings by getting rid of one of the above?

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Is it because you have none?

Your own reference, although these obviously dont exist either.

donalg1 wrote: »

Chances are if their income is less than their outgoings they will be in receipt of mortgage interest supplement which will mean they are exempt anyway.

Hijpo wrote: »

im an example

Yes, but you are obviously Irelands only person in this position.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

Well sure you can afford €2 then if your partner is working full time, do you have a mobile? broadband? tv? landline? drink? smoke? maybe you could reduce your outgoings by getting rid of one of the above?

My partner works full time, but we bought our modest house when we were BOTH working full time. We dont drink, we dont smoke, we have a landline but only for broadband as the course im doing (to further my education and increase my chances of getting a job like the government wants me to or else they will cut my job seekers allowance when i do get let go in february) is online, we got rid of sky the child was gutted coz he loves the cartoons but still pay the TV Licence. I have a Pay As You Go mobile seen as we dont have the phone in the house and need the mobile incase the jobs i applied for months ago decide to ring ye know?

donalg1

robbie7730 wrote: »

Your own reference, although these obviously dont exist either.




Yes, but you are obviously Irelands only person in this position.

An example of someone who is online all day yet cant afford €2 per week, ok!!!:rolleyes:

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

My partner works full time, but we bought our modest house when we were BOTH working full time. We dont drink, we dont smoke, we have a landline but only for broadband as the course im doing (to further my education and increase my chances of getting a job like the government wants me to or else they will cut my job seekers allowance when i do get let go in february) is online, we got rid of sky the child was gutted coz he loves the cartoons but still pay the TV Licence. I have a Pay As You Go mobile seen as we dont have the phone in the house and need the mobile incase the jobs i applied for months ago decide to ring ye know?

So you can afford €2 per week, you say you are so broke that you cant afford to pay it yet you are willing to risk a €2,500 fine? Why cant you give your partners number as your contact number and get rid of your own mobile saving you €2 per week.

mikom

donalg1 wrote: »

Why cant you give your partners number as your contact number and get rid of your own mobile saving you €2 per week.

Yeah, come on, spare a thought for all the bondholders without swimming pools.

I can see the advert now......

"Just €2 per week will allow Hans to have clean chlorinated water in his swimming pool"

donalg1

mikom wrote: »

Yeah, come on, spare a thought for all the bondholders without swimming pools.

I can see the advert now......

"Just €2 per week will allow Hans to have clean chlorinated water in his swimming pool"

The bondholders will be paid either way make no mistake about that, the only thing is once they are paid there will be an extra 160m in the pot afterwards.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

So you can afford €2 per week, you say you are so broke that you cant afford to pay it yet you are willing to risk a €2,500 fine? Why cant you give your partners number as your contact number and get rid of your own mobile saving you €2 per week.

Because my partner works 9-5 monday to friday, she cant answer her phone in work and what good would she be answering when its ME that applied for the job?
They wont be getting €2,500 off me either.

c montgomery

donalg1 wrote: »

Well sure you can afford €2 then if your partner is working full time, do you have a mobile? broadband? tv? landline? drink? smoke? maybe you could reduce your outgoings by getting rid of one of the above?

I can easily afford it, I wont be paying however.
I have all those things you mentioned above and more however i work very hard for them paying loads of tax every year for very little in return.

If anyone should be looking at their outgoings it should be the government!:rolleyes:

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

Because my partner works 9-5 monday to friday, she cant answer her phone in work and what good would she be answering when its ME that applied for the job?
They wont be getting €2,500 off me either.

Well if you have a court judgement against you, you could be looking at a larger fine or imprisonment and thats not going to do you, your wife or kids any good now is it. I am sure between you and your wife you could figure some way of coming up with €2 per week, I would hate to think people today are so incapable of budgeting that €2 per week would mean the difference between living at home or becoming homeless.

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Well sure you can afford €2 then if your partner is working full time, do you have a mobile? broadband? tv? landline? drink? smoke? maybe you could reduce your outgoings by getting rid of one of the above?

Really donal, no matter what, you will agree with any new austerity measures, no matter what the hardship to others, unless at some stage, it affects you as badly as they are affecting some others.

But you want examples of them, or else they dont exist.

Do you think everyone in arrears with mortgages, went into them for the laugh? Its not possible in your world (o no im attacking donal again) that people have lost jobs, or income has been badly hit, but still have mortgages. But wait, get rid of the broadband, problem solved.

The biggest wasters of money, are the very ones hitting the people with these measures. Perhaps they should get their own house sorted out, before telling us we have to pay extra on ours.

And again, as has been mentioned enough times by others, a small €100 charge will get people to register, sure its only a small amount. But this will then be a cash tap for the gevernment with their new database of who owns what property. And they can pick and choose any level they want, and all you have to say is, well its the law.

Unless of course, someday it is too much for you to pay.

donalg1

robbie7730 wrote: »

Really donal, no matter what, you will agree with any new austerity measures, no matter what the hardship to others, unless at some stage, it affects you as badly as they are affecting some others.

But you want examples of them, or else they dont exist.

Do you think everyone in arrears with mortgages, went into them for the laugh? Its not possible in your world (o no im attacking donal again) that people have lost jobs, or income has been badly hit, but still have mortgages. But wait, get rid of the broadband, problem solved.

The biggest wasters of money, are the very ones hitting the people with these measures. Perhaps they should get their own house sorted out, before telling us we have to pay extra on ours.

And again, as has been mentioned enough times by others, a small €100 charge will get people to register, sure its only a small amount. But this will then be a cash tap for the gevernment with their new database of who owns what property. And they can pick and choose any level they want, and all you have to say is, well its the law.

Unless of course, someday it is too much for you to pay.

Where did I say I would agree with all future austerity measures, or where did I say I agree with the household charge for that matter? I may not agree with it, but I will pay it.

Again its €100 so until it's more I dont see the point in debating this, as we can only really debate the household charge in its current form which is €100.

And of course its possible people took out mortgages and have since lost their jobs, but isnt it also possible they are in receipt of mortgage interest supplement and are therefore exempt? As if they are in such a bad position they will qualify for the supplement, and if they dont qualify for it they will be deemed outside the qualifications based on a means test which signals that they can afford €2 per week.

Buford Tannen

donalg1 wrote: »

The bondholders will be paid either way make no mistake about that, the only thing is once they are paid there will be an extra 160m in the pot afterwards.

No there wont,you forgot to add in PS increments 250m for this year

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0119/1224310448219.html

donalg1

Buford Tannen wrote: »

No there wont,you forgot to add in PS increments 250m for this year

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0119/1224310448219.html

I am sure there is another thread on that somewhere, but anyway what you are saying is that there is no point raising 160m because they have to spend 250m despite the fact the net loss would be reduced from 250m to 90m?

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Where did I say I would agree with all future austerity measures, or where did I say I agree with the household charge for that matter? I may not agree with it, but I will pay it.

Well if you disagree with it, your not doing a good job of showing that. Although similarly, i never said i wont pay it either.

Again its €100 so until it's more I dont see the point in debating this, as we can only really debate the household charge in its current form which is €100.

For all the stick governments might get, they are smart enough to introduce a register and pay system, so a lot of people, will think well thats very little, lets register. Others look at the future implications of handing them another easy, practically unlimited tax collection method.

And of course its possible people took out mortgages and have since lost their jobs, but isnt it also possible they are in receipt of mortgage interest supplement and are therefore exempt? As if they are in such a bad position they will qualify for the supplement, and if they dont qualify for it they will be deemed outside the qualifications based on a means test which signals that they can afford €2 per week.

Anyone receiving the suppliment on jan 1st will be exempt this year. People in full time jobs wont be.

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

I am sure there is another thread on that somewhere, but anyway what you are saying is that there is no point raising 160m because they have to spend 250m despite the fact the net loss would be reduced from 250m to 90m?

Well you are telling people to get rid of mobile phones, to save the €2 a week. Yet you cant see the point mentioned above, cut out the increments, and save the €250 million.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

Well if you have a court judgement against you, you could be looking at a larger fine or imprisonment and thats not going to do you, your wife or kids any good now is it. I am sure between you and your wife you could figure some way of coming up with €2 per week, I would hate to think people today are so incapable of budgeting that €2 per week would mean the difference between living at home or becoming homeless.

And were not married so i cant claim her tax credits to up my job seekers allowance.... yet they combine BOTH our wages when calculating how much i get..... can you see whats wrong with that picture?

i think its hilarious that you think i would lie about not having €2 lol

donalg1

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well if you disagree with it, your not doing a good job of showing that. Although similarly, i never said i wont pay it either.


For all the stick governments might get, they are smart enough to introduce a register and pay system, so a lot of people, will think well thats very little, lets register. Others look at the future implications of handing them another easy, practically unlimited tax collection method.



Anyone receiving the suppliment on jan 1st will be exempt this year. People in full time jobs wont be.

Because anyone in a full time job will be deemed capable of paying €2 per week.

Fact is the mistakes of FF, bankers, bondholders, property developers and the greed of the general public who took out mortgages they could never afford have left this country broke. One way of fixing this is by creating new ways of raising income and that is what the household charge is about. We as a country are up sh** creek and I would rather struggle myself and hopefully get out of it some day than see my kids and grandkids struggle too. I may not like it but that is the country we live in today thanks to a few idiots who got greedy and screwed us all.

donalg1

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well you are telling people to get rid of mobile phones, to save the €2 a week. Yet you cant see the point mentioned above, cut out the increments, and save the €250 million.

Unfortunately the increments are protected by contracts and the CPA so alternative ways of raising money must be looked at.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

And were not married so i cant claim her tax credits to up my job seekers allowance.... yet they combine BOTH our wages when calculating how much i get..... can you see whats wrong with that picture?

i think its hilarious that you think i would lie about not having €2 lol

I didnt say you were lying. I said you should surely be able to come up with €2 per week between you both.

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Because anyone in a full time job will be deemed capable of paying €2 per week.

In your opinion. However, mortgage arrears etc are not limited to the unemployed.

Fact is the mistakes of FF, bankers, bondholders, property developers and the greed of the general public who took out mortgages they could never afford have left this country broke. One way of fixing this is by creating new ways of raising income and that is what the household charge is about. We as a country are up sh** creek and I would rather struggle myself and hopefully get out of it some day than see my kids and grandkids struggle too. I may not like it but that is the country we live in today thanks to a few idiots who got greedy and screwed us all.

While those of us that were sensible are now paying for their sins. So why shouldnt people object? O wait, its the law. We must obey the laws to fund the mistakes of others.

donalg1

robbie7730 wrote: »

In your opinion. However, mortgage arrears etc are not limited to the unemployed.



While those of us that were sensible are now paying for their sins. So why shouldnt people object? O wait, its the law. We must obey the laws to fund the mistakes of others.

No you are getting it not good to hear but it is the times we are now living in unfortunately.

And where did I say mortgage arrears are limited to the unemployed?

Its not my opinion that anyone in a full time job can afford €2 per week its the states opinion based on the post by Hijpo saying he was refused Mortgage Interest Supplement because his partner is full time employed.

Hijpo

donalg1 wrote: »

I didnt say you were lying. I said you should surely be able to come up with €2 per week between you both.

And everytime i say i cant you say "surely you can, some way" iv looked at my own cut backs and short of handing back the car that i need to travel to work (13km) to earn the money, we are just holding on.
Im hoping the judge i get called before doesnt have the same attitude as yourself.

Crazy Horse 6

Can afford to pay but wont on principle alone. Good meeting here in Dundrum last night organising a campaign against the charge.

donalg1

Hijpo wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I didnt say you were lying. I said you should surely be able to come up with €2 per week between you both.

And everytime i say i cant you say "surely you can, some way" iv looked at my own cut backs and short of handing back the car that i need to travel to work (13km) to earn the money, we are just holding on.
Im hoping the judge i get called before doesnt have the same attitude as yourself.

Big risk to take though.

tayto lover

donalg1 wrote: »

The debate here is about the household charge not other charges, the household charge is €100 now so the point is can people afford this and the answer is yes.

I don't believe that you still don't get it.
It is 100e this year BUT like every other tax it will rise steeply in the coming years.
The 100e this year is only to get you hooked. Once you are hooked then you are at their mercy.
Don't pay it folks. They are paying bondholders who they are refusing to name (because obviously they are their mates) with your income taxes etc and bringing this Property Tax in as a replacement for services. Don't be fooled.

donalg1

tayto lover wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

The debate here is about the household charge not other charges, the household charge is €100 now so the point is can people afford this and the answer is yes.

I don't believe that you still don't get it.
It is 100e this year BUT like every other tax it will rise steeply in the coming years.
The 100e this year is only to get you hooked. Once you are hooked then you are at their mercy.
Don't pay it folks. They are paying bondholders who they are refusing to name (because obviously they are their mates) with your income taxes etc and bringing this Property Tax in as a replacement for services. Don't be fooled.

I do get it. There is no doubt the property tax is going to be more than €100 but the household charge this year as in now is €100 so I am going to pay that. I certainly won't advise people not to pay it as I won't be around when they are in court and I don't think you will be either and I doubt you will pay their fines either.

I don't like it but I'll pay it as truth is it should have been introduced ten years ago but FF were too busy trying to win votes and now we are all f###ed due to their incompetence and continuous avoidance of the real issues

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

And where did I say mortgage arrears are limited to the unemployed?

Well you said no one exists that cant afford this new tax, and if they cant, they can avail of MIR. Id suggest people in arrears cant afford their existing expenses. And some of them are employed. The state deeming them able to afford it does not mean they can.

And the state is not deeming that they can, thats just your opinion. They are simply using the employed status as a cut-off point. Thats not the same as being certainly able to afford.

Its not my opinion that anyone in a full time job can afford €2 per week its the states opinion

Ok, its not your opinoin.

donalg1 wrote: »

I will never for one second believe there is a single person in this country who cant afford €2 per week.

But it seems it was earlier.

tayto lover

donalg1 wrote: »

I do get it. There is no doubt the property tax is going to be more than €100 but the household charge this year as in now is €100 so I am going to pay that. I certainly won't advise people not to pay it as I won't be around when they are in court and I don't think you will be either and I doubt you will pay their fines either.

I don't like it but I'll pay it as truth is it should have been introduced ten years ago but FF were too busy trying to win votes and now we are all f###ed due to their incompetence and continuous avoidance of the real issues

If you pay it then they have you for good. The bondholders (inc Noonan) will be delighted with you. Your kids will do without while theirs will have extra.