Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Who the fcuk in this country can actually sell their house at the min?

Actually, I prob could if I was willing to accept 60% less than what I paid for it (as my home, not investment) five years ago.
Do you really expect me to take 60% less, but still have a mortgage around my neck for the next twenty years? Get real.....

Had the property crash in this country escaped your attention or what?

You don't have to sell your house to escape the charge this year. As I recall you said you live in an exempted estate.

tayto lover

drkpower wrote: »

Do you think i should not be legislatively obligated to pay my income tax if I believe it is unfair?

If you believe that a law is unjust then have the balls to oppose it.

drkpower

tayto lover wrote: »

If you believe that a law is unjust then have the balls to oppose it.

Do you think i should not be legislatively obligated to pay my income tax if I believe it is unfair?

gerryo777

Mr CJ wrote: »

Guys and girls can you see now why this guy should be ignored??

Dont waste your time

Three of them here now. Must be overtime:D

tayto lover

gurramok wrote: »

I get paid a few euro for each post, goes straight into the coffers of FG :rolleyes:


You probably need to be re-programmed.

Ghandee

drkpower wrote: »

You attempted to distinguish a property tax from a car tax by pointing to the fact that you could 'sell your car'. That is not sufficient as you can also 'sell give your house away for sixty percent less than you bought it for.

Try again.

Fyp.....

Its strange, the more I look on it......

Registered same month/year as your similary named counterpart.

donalg1

Why do the anti brigade care if I or anyone else pays this charge?

Mr CJ

gerryo777 wrote: »

Three of them here now. Must be overtime:D

yes with one of them still discussing income tax this is so funny!!

These guys are defo fg or mates of them

tayto lover

drkpower wrote: »

Do you think i should not be legislatively obligated to pay my income tax if I believe it is unfair?

Get on to Lowry for advice. Mine is taken at source. Very little you can do about that but you can do a lot about the Household Tax.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You don't have to sell your house to escape the charge this year. As I recall you said you live in an exempted estate.

I've stated numerous times that i'm not liable for the charge (this year at least) but equally stated that I'd campaign tirelessly to do ask I can in getting it abolished as its unjust and unfair.



Btw.....


I'm still awaiting your response to my previous questions.....

Can we just assume that as you fail to even acknowledge them, that you've admitted to be caught out in lying, and spreading propaganda? :rolleyes:

gurramok

tayto lover wrote: »

You probably need to be re-programmed.

I was at the vending machine today and spotted packets of Tayto and King side by side. Guess which packet I bought? :pac:

grindle

drkpower wrote: »

You don't care if I pay income tax? Are you saying I should not have to?

Firstly, your comprehension is diabolical.
I said "I don't care if you do pay more income tax or not", not "I don't care if you pay tax at all."
In an ideal world, you'd feel you should, unless you're lying, thieving scum.
Secondly:

drkpower wrote: »

Nope; thats not my argument. My argument is that you havent distinguished property tax/household charge from other forms of taxation.

The property/household tax isn't FOR anything. It's not being USED for anything I could possibly get any use out of, and if it I was dumb enough to get myself into a massive debt and find myself owing large quantities of cash to a bank that needed to be bailed out by my government, thus costing innocent people their hard-earned cash, I'd feel like a leeching, worthless cum-sac.

This is just "Give us your money."

The definition of stealing.

Mr CJ

donalg1 wrote: »

Why do the anti brigade care if I or anyone else pays this charge?

Donal we dont give a flying fck if you pay it. Go for it get into line and bend down, do what your told!! good lad

Beubeu

Ghandee wrote: »

What kind of a question is this?
Because I, we, (my wife and child) needed somewhere to live for Christs sake!
We didn't buy hoping to make money on the house, we didn't buy it as a second home.
We simply got married and bought a family home together, we couldn't foresee the crap that was coming down the line not even a year later!

The attitude from a few folk here seems to be 'you bought a house so deserve to suffer'.

Where were we supposed to live?

I've lived within my means, even at the height of the boom, I always drove a second hand car, didn't go on holidays that often (and by this I mean not even once a year) so pardon me for trying to provide a house and home for my family, I surely deserve to suffer for doing that.

Dont get me wrong there, as i am not here to judge you or anyone else but you dont have to buy to live somewhere.
Rent is acceptable too (actually renting a property makes way more economical sense than buying nowadays, even during the celtic tiger).

Banks are probably robbers but we signed their papers and were delighted to get mortgage that we knew we wont be able to pay.

Its sad that people with kids have to suffer but I dont think that property taxes is the core of our problems right now.

tayto lover

gurramok wrote: »

I was at the vending machine today and spotted packets of Tayto and King side by side. Guess which packet I bought? :pac:

I thought all the vending machines in the Dail were free.

donalg1

Mr CJ wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Why do the anti brigade care if I or anyone else pays this charge?

Donal we dont give a flying fck if you pay it. Go for it get into line and bend down, do what your told!! good lad

You obviously care if you give an answer like that. Basically you don't know then?

Ghandee

gurramok wrote: »

I was at the vending machine today at school, and spotted packets of Tayto and King side by side. Guess which packet I bought? :pac:

Fyp......

Grow up.

golfwallah

tayto lover wrote: »

I consider this Law to be unjust. Here's a quote from a man who gave his life to oppose unjust laws.

One who breaks an unjust law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
The other part of your post deserves to be ignored.

Martin Luther King opposed racial discrimination - not payment of taxes.

Get a grip!

Mr CJ

donalg1 wrote: »

You obviously care if you give an answer like that. Basically you don't know then?

Your an exception so dont really care less if you pay it, but on the other hand people are shooting themselves in the foot when they register and the more people register the more pressure it puts on the campaign this is why we do not want people registering, you know this already so dont know why your asking

gerryo777

Mr CJ wrote: »

Donal we dont give a flying fck if you pay it. Go for it get into line and bend down, do what your told!! good lad

I think drkpower is a retired doctor judging from some of his other posts, possibly a consultant.
If this is the case sure a few hundred or even a few thousand in a household tax would be no problem to him.
Sure they are some of the most cosseted and overpaid people in the country and if he's retired sure his pension is probably 2 or 3 times the average industrial wage anyway.
Maybe he could confirm / deny this....

tayto lover

golfwallah wrote: »

Martin Luther King opposed racial discrimination - not payment of taxes.

Get a grip!

He opposed unjust laws.

donalg1

Mr CJ wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

You obviously care if you give an answer like that. Basically you don't know then?

Your an exception so dont really care less if you pay it, but on the other hand people are shooting themselves in the foot when they register and the more people register the more pressure it puts on the campaign this is why we do not want people registering, you know this already so dont know why your asking

I'm asking because I don't know why anyone cares if I pay this charge what has it got to do with them? It's my money and my choice what I do with it surely.

I've said all along if you don't want to pay it then you don't pay it simple as that. Can't see the need to protest or organise meetings about it.

Mr CJ

gerryo777 wrote: »

I think drkpower is a retired doctor judging from some of his other posts, possibly a consultant.
If this is the case sure a few hundred or even a few thousand in a household tax would be no problem to him.
Sure they are some of the most cosseted and overpaid people in the country and if he's retired sure his pension is probably 2 or 3 times the average industrial wage anyway.
Maybe he could confirm / deny this....

You could be right but if I won the lotto tomorrow and won 50 million I would still not pay this €100, I would prob invest some money to make people see some cop on with this charge and stop looking at it blindly

dxhound2005

Mr CJ wrote: »

Donal we dont give a flying fck if you pay it. Go for it get into line and bend down, do what your told!! good lad

You need to sharpen up your line in invective. I miss our old friend The Quadratic Equation who used to do it properly. Like this:

Paying the charge, bending over, and sticking your cowardly head in the sand, while leaving your compliant servile ass in the air for riding at will by the corrupt golden circle.

gerryo777

golfwallah wrote: »

Martin Luther King opposed racial discrimination - not payment of taxes.

Get a grip!

Think you should read up a bit on MLK and then 'get a grip' yourself!

gurramok

Its a law passed by our Dail, our elected parliament!!

Do the anti brigade here think themselves as some sort of revolutionaries, perhaps anarchists?

Or perhaps like the Tea Party in the US, where the mention of paying your taxes is an affront to their livelihood?

Mr CJ

donalg1 wrote: »

I'm asking because I don't know why anyone cares if I pay this charge what has it got to do with them? It's my money and my choice what I do with it surely.

I've said all along if you don't want to pay it then you don't pay it simple as that. Can't see the need to protest or organise meetings about it.

Its quite obvious, if we are to succeed with stopping this charge we need to stop as many people registering as possible otherwise we are fighting a loosing battle

grindle

gurramok wrote: »

Its a law passed by our Dail, our elected parliament!!

So you think a law passed by any elected government is just?

dvpower

Mr CJ wrote: »

Its quite obvious, if we are to succeed with stopping this charge we need to stop as many people registering as possible otherwise we are fighting a loosing battle

At what point would you accept you are fighting a loosing battle? Would you pay up then or continue fighting?

gerryo777

Mr CJ wrote: »

You could be right but if I won the lotto tomorrow and won 50 million I would still not pay this €100, I would prob invest some money to make people see some cop on with this charge and stop looking at it blindly

Just checked my numbers and guess what.........................













F**king nothing!!!!

Still not paying though!

donalg1

Mr CJ wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I'm asking because I don't know why anyone cares if I pay this charge what has it got to do with them? It's my money and my choice what I do with it surely.

I've said all along if you don't want to pay it then you don't pay it simple as that. Can't see the need to protest or organise meetings about it.

Its quite obvious, if we are to succeed with stopping this charge we need to stop as many people registering as possible otherwise we are fighting a loosing battle

So basically the anti brigade are protesting to get the charge scrapped. Don't think there is any chance of that happening tbh. It's here now and will be replaced by the property tax.

I wish it was scrapped but can't see it happening so will be paying.

I know some will want me not to pay as they see it as unjust but most want me not to pay because they are hoping it's scrapped and because they don't want to be alone in not paying

Mr CJ

dvpower wrote: »

At what point would you accept you are fighting a loosing battle? Would you pay up then or continue fighting?

Im not paying end of story. The water charges were abolished because people stuck together and went against government, im sure the pro people here were no help with that protest either

Beubeu

eth0 wrote: »

I'm going to leave to a country where you don't have to pay an annual tax for living in a house that you own.

There are plenty, believe me. It's just that it's common in such brilliant places as Germany and France to have such taxes, but by no means every country.

Not having this stupid tax was one of the great things about ireland

I know that property taxes is not about funding hospital
, schools etc but you sound like you dont like taxes in general. fair enough!

Taxes = incomes for the government = money to spend on public services.

Back in the "good time" we didnt pay a lot of taxes compare to France and Germany. Our hospitals were a complete disgrace (still are), our roads were bad (worst now) etc....

Can you please name this wonderfull country with low taxes and wonderfull pubic service? I might come with you

gurramok

grindle wrote: »

So you think a law passed by any elected government is just?

By this govt yes as they were recently elected where the electorate knew this tax was on the way. Sort of a mandate for it.

gerryo777

donalg1 wrote: »

So basically the anti brigade are protesting to get the charge scrapped. Don't think there is any chance of that happening tbh. It's here now and will be replaced by the property tax.

I wish it was scrapped but can't see it happening so will be paying.

I know some will want me not to pay as they see it as unjust but most want me not to pay because they are hoping it's scrapped and because they don't want to be alone in not paying

Sure we'll wait and see what happens after this, back to the drawing board methinks.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0314/household.html

gerryo777

Beubeu wrote: »

Back in the "good time" we didnt pay a lot of taxes compare to France and Germany. Our hospitals were a complete disgrace (still are), our roads were bad (worst now) etc....

Back in the 'good times' the government had more money than they could handle, they squandered it though benchmarking and inflated the bubble until it burst.
We still have ****e services, a ****e overpaid, overstaffed PS/CS and still have the unions running rings around the government.
And now they want to screw households for more cash to pay for the above, they can f**k off.

dxhound2005

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sure we'll wait and see what happens after this, back to the drawing board methinks.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0314/household.html

From page 303.

Successive Supreme Court decisions found that the State must make Acts of the Oireachtas available through Irish as soon as is practicable, or within a reasonable period, of the Act being published in English.

One for the judges.

golfwallah

tayto lover wrote: »

I will try and make it easier for you to understand.

1. I own my home and the site. My house does not damage the road because it does not move.
2. I own my car but not the road. My car does damage the road because it does move.

I pay taxes on my car because the roads it damages and which have to be kept in good repair are not mine.
I won't pay a property tax because my house does not cause damage and I already paid Stamp Duty on it.
There now. Simple. Hope you get it now.

The state is spending way more than it earns and deficit has to be reduced by a combination of taxation and spending cuts.

Your home and site are in the state - therefore, the state has the right to impose tax on your ownership, once the necessary laws are passed in our parliament.

That's democracy - whether you like it or not.

To believe you can specify which of those taxes you will pay and won't pay just by putting up a reason like "I own my home", regardless for the laws passed by democratically elected government, is clearly undemocratic.

Sure, you have the right to protest. But breaking the law, even for an unpopular tax, is not an acceptable principle that can be upheld in a democratic state. It's a recipe for chaos and anarchy.

If you want to stand for election on a platform of making it legal to pay only the taxes you consider to be fair, please do so.

Otherwise you should obey the laws of the land.

grindle

gurramok wrote: »

By this govt yes as they were recently elected where the electorate knew this tax was on the way. Sort of a mandate for it.

Nope. They were elected in February 2011, the charge was brought up in July and Fine Gael's manifesto makes no mention of it.

Your source?

tayto lover

gurramok wrote: »

By this govt yes as they were recently elected where the electorate knew this tax was on the way. Sort of a mandate for it.

They were elected on a tissue of lies. Straight and simple.
What about the famous Five Point Plan now ?
What about the "not another cent" bit ?
What about the "we will not close hospitals" bit ?
What about the "re-negotiation" bit ?

They are more interested in getting their hair ruffled by Sarcozy and getting little pecks on the cheek from Angela for being the "best boys in the class ".
They are too cowardly and meek to ask the important questions and because of that they have achieved absolutely nothing in Europe.
We should have sent the clowns from Duffy's Circus.

gerryo777

tayto lover wrote: »

They were elected on a tissue of lies. Straight and simple.
What about the famous Five Point Plan now ?
What about the "not another cent" bit ?
What about the "we will not close hospitals" bit ?
What about the "re-negotiation" bit ?

They are more interested in getting their hair ruffled by Sarcozy and getting little pecks on the cheek from Angela for being the "best boys in the class ".
They are too cowardly and meek to ask the important questions and because of that they have achieved absolutely nothing in Europe.
We should have sent the clowns from Duffy's Circus.

Duffy's clowns aren't stupid, they wouldn't become politicians.

drkpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Fyp.....

You still havent distingushed the property tax/household charge from any other forms of taxation.

drkpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Get on to Lowry for advice. Mine is taken at source. Very little you can do about that but you can do a lot about the Household Tax.

Are you going to answer the question: Do you think i should not be legislatively obligated to pay my income tax if I believe it is unfair?

After all, you believe you should not be legislatively obligated to pay your property tax/household charge as you believe it is unfair?

Eire.

So....who is paying the household charge! not me

drkpower

grindle wrote: »

I said "I don't care if you do pay more income tax or not", not "I don't care if you pay tax at all."

Should I be entitled not to pay income tax if i consider it unfair?

grindle wrote: »

The property/household tax isn't FOR anything.

Its FOR the same thing as income tax is.

drkpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

I think drkpower is a retired doctor judging from some of his other posts, possibly a consultant.
If this is the case sure a few hundred or even a few thousand in a household tax would be no problem to him.
Sure they are some of the most cosseted and overpaid people in the country and if he's retired sure his pension is probably 2 or 3 times the average industrial wage anyway.
Maybe he could confirm / deny this....

Not a retired anything sadly.

But are you suggesting that ability to pay would legitimise a property tax/household charge?

tayto lover

drkpower wrote: »

Are you going to answer the question: Do you think i should not be legislatively obligated to pay my income tax if I believe it is unfair?

After all, you believe you should not be legislatively obligated to pay your property tax/household charge as you believe it is unfair?

That is a matter for you.
I see it as unjust and will not pay. What you do is entirely your business. If I felt like you then I wouldn't pay. But I bet you will.

dvpower

grindle wrote: »

Nope. They were elected in February 2011, the charge was brought up in July and Fine Gael's manifesto makes no mention of it.

Your source?

It was in the EU/IMF MOU.

drkpower

tayto lover wrote: »

That is a matter for you.
I see it as unjust and will not pay. What you do is entirely your business. If I felt like you then I wouldn't pay. But I bet you will.

So are you saying that I, or anyne else, should not be legislatively obligated to pay income tax if I/we consider it unfair?

Can you think of any practical repurcussions of that position?

gurramok

grindle wrote: »

Nope. They were elected in February 2011, the charge was brought up in July and Fine Gael's manifesto makes no mention of it.

Your source?

IMF bailout. You'll find water charges in there too. Whoever got elected into govt had to implement them or else say goodbye to our cosy way of life.

It was well publicised back then so no excuse for anyone to have ignorance on the pending property tax issue.