New Business openings and closures around you?

tomofson

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

The problem with DL is the amount of lowlifes hanging around, example - on street outside the church.

If you are talking about the addicts they have been in Dun Laoghaire since the late 70's, they where there throughout the years dun laoghaire was booming.

I understand people like to scapegoat the lower class but its not the case when it comes to dun laoghaire, I have actually never heard of anyone being attacked or harmed in Dun Laoghaire by addicts.

I would say Dun Laoghaire is one of the safest parts of Dublin.

wakka12

Yeh Dun Laoghaire feels incredibly safe, I didnt even know that there was any problem what so ever with addicts in that area, it is not visible at all to me a semi-regular visitor anyway, so I doubt they are part of the problem really

tomofson

wakka12 wrote: »

Yeh Dun Laoghaire feels incredibly safe, I didnt even know that there was any problem what so ever with addicts in that area, it is not visible at all to me a semi-regular visitor anyway, so I doubt they are part of the problem really

People don't like to look at the bigger picture so tend to just pick on vulnerable scapegoats that they know for a fact are only a minor contribution to the decline if any at all.

josip

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

The problem with DL is the amount of lowlifes hanging around, example - on street outside the church.

True, but they disperse fairly quickly after 10 o'clock mass is over.

Awaaf

Let's face it if the addicts are not real DL I don't know what is! They have been there since I was in short pants. They don't always add to the aesthetic but they are a big part of the reality of DL!

Blut2

Knocking down the old shopping center to replace it with ground floor retail units and 500 odd apartments would combine perfectly with the new 1000 job tech hub under construction. It could really re-invent Dun Laoghaire as a hub for young people.

Is it likely the old shopping center will be demolished though? It surely can't be very profitable these days can it?

Blut2

Blut2 wrote: »

Knocking down the old shopping center to replace it with ground floor retail units and 500 odd apartments would combine perfectly with the new 1000 job tech hub under construction. It could really re-invent Dun Laoghaire as a hub for young people.

Is it likely the old shopping center will be demolished though? It surely can't be very profitable these days can it?

it is about to undergo a massive remodeling to make the units bigger and more attractive. It really needs an anchor tenant in there. I know it has Supervalu, but it needs a TopShop or an H&M to give the place a bit of an attraction to younger shoppers.

Stephen15

Aegir wrote: »

it is about to undergo a massive remodeling to make the units bigger and more attractive. It really needs an anchor tenant in there. I know it has Supervalu, but it needs a TopShop or an H&M to give the place a bit of an attraction to younger shoppers.

I can't see a face lift doing much to it yes it will make it look better on the outside but the inside will still look dark and dingy. It needs more natural light to make it a pleasant shopping experience really. It probably would be knocked down if Tesco weren't using the top floor as offices.

Stephen15

Stephen15 wrote: »

I can't see a face lift doing much to it yes it will make it look better on the outside but the inside will still look dark and dingy. It needs more natural light to make it a pleasant shopping experience really. It probably would be knocked down if Tesco weren't using the top floor as offices.

The photos look as though they are making the upstairs windows much bigger, so it should address the gloomy feel the place has.

Larbre34

Aegir wrote: »

it is about to undergo a massive remodeling to make the units bigger and more attractive. It really needs an anchor tenant in there. I know it has Supervalu, but it needs a TopShop or an H&M to give the place a bit of an attraction to younger shoppers.

It has permission to do so, but without those type of tenants nailed down in a contract, they won't do the work.

How long that is sustainable, I don't know. The permission has maybe 2 years left before it expires, if it were my money tied up in that asset, Id be looking to sell it for redevelopment if that elapses.

Stephen15

Aegir wrote: »

it is about to undergo a massive remodeling to make the units bigger and more attractive. It really needs an anchor tenant in there. I know it has Supervalu, but it needs a TopShop or an H&M to give the place a bit of an attraction to younger shoppers.

Also a Supervalu isin't exactly a glamour tenant. It's a not a great supermarket. A Marks and Spencer's or even a Dunnes Stores would be more attractive.

coylemj

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also a Supervalu isin't exactly a glamour tenant. It's a not a great supermarket. A Marks and Spencer's or even a Dunnes Stores would be more attractive.

Agree about Supervalu, there would need to be a great big M&S clothes shop under the same roof or you wouldn't see me walking through the door and in that context, Aldi is going to be under the microsope in the redeveloped Frascati. If they can pull it off, they could end up as an anchor in other big centres.

Cyrus

Given marks already pulled out of DL I don’t think you will see them again

They will be under pressure in Blackrock now as well with Aldi next door

Tabnabs

I was speaking recently with a guy who worked for a previous management company of the DL shopping centre. When business started declining they hired a 'retail guru' to do a study on the business and come up with a rescue plan. They gathered for a presentation and the guy pulled out a big board with a map of south Dublin. He stuck a pin in DL, and drew a circle about three miles around it and announced that this was where the target market for the customers was located. The management team looked excitedly at names like Dalkey, Blackrock, Stillorgan etc. But the consultant pointed out the obvious, over half of the area within the circle was just empty sea. In his opinion, the customer base wasn't large enough to sustain the shopping centre after the initial period of success when any large new shopping centre is opened.

Those owners sold up shortly afterwards and it looks like this guy was pretty much spot-on in his prediction. With the current set up it's the Tesco offices on the upper levels that is keeping the show on the road and the failure to attract even one new anchor tenant is a clear sign that DL shopping centre is a failure as a retail business.

Any plans to demolish it and change to residential use would be met with the most strenuous opposition as with any large scale development in DL. It's not just the councillors and public servants in DL who are against change and progression, the locals are about the most vocal and conservative bunch in the country. We have a crumbling Victorian town where an uneasy truce between politicians and activists stymie any change or progress to keep the town valid and prosperous.

DL will have to succeed in spite of, rather than because of, the shopping centre and any other large scale retail developments. Bringing people back into the town is crucial and the redevelopment of old retail units into residential units is a great start to this. Every town has its peaks and troughs, and there are glimmers of light that DL can re-emerge as a destination for Dubliners as well as a home and a playground.

coylemj

The county council effectively gave up on Dun Laoghaire as a retail hub when they gave the go-ahead for Dundrum.

caviardreams

coylemj wrote: »

The county council effectively gave up on Dun Laoghaire as a retail hub when they gave the go-ahead for Dundrum.

Not sure I buy that - look at Blackrock which is greatly expanding at present in spite of Dundrum.

It needs more points of difference with Dundrum though, like the way it had a sostrene grene which only opened in the city centre this month, scrumdiddlys, that will attract people for a day out shopping, a bit to eat a walk along the pier etc. as well as the locals.

torrevieja

caviardreams wrote: »

Not sure I buy that - look at Blackrock which is greatly expanding at present in spite of Dundrum.

It needs more points of difference with Dundrum though, like the way it had a sostrene grene which only opened in the city centre this month, scrumdiddlys, that will attract people for a day out shopping, a bit to eat a walk along the pier etc. as well as the locals.

Well Hammerson is slowly running lot of tenants out with increasing rent

ted1

Tabnabs wrote: »

I was speaking recently with a guy who worked for a previous management company of the DL shopping centre. When business started declining they hired a 'retail guru' to do a study on the business and come up with a rescue plan. They gathered for a presentation and the guy pulled out a big board with a map of south Dublin. He stuck a pin in DL, and drew a circle about three miles around it and announced that this was where the target market for the customers was located. The management team looked excitedly at names like Dalkey, Blackrock, Stillorgan etc. But the consultant pointed out the obvious, over half of the area within the circle was just empty sea. In his opinion, the customer base wasn't large enough to sustain the shopping centre after the initial period of success when any large new shopping centre is opened.

Those owners sold up shortly afterwards and it looks like this guy was pretty much spot-on in his prediction. With the current set up it's the Tesco offices on the upper levels that is keeping the show on the road and the failure to attract even one new anchor tenant is a clear sign that DL shopping centre is a failure as a retail business.

Any plans to demolish it and change to residential use would be met with the most strenuous opposition as with any large scale development in DL. It's not just the councillors and public servants in DL who are against change and progression, the locals are about the most vocal and conservative bunch in the country. We have a crumbling Victorian town where an uneasy truce between politicians and activists stymie any change or progress to keep the town valid and prosperous.

DL will have to succeed in spite of, rather than because of, the shopping centre and any other large scale retail developments. Bringing people back into the town is crucial and the redevelopment of old retail units into residential units is a great start to this. Every town has its peaks and troughs, and there are glimmers of light that DL can re-emerge as a destination for Dubliners as well as a home and a playground.

Frascatti, Blackrock snd Merrion are all in the coast and dint use that excuse

Larbre34

coylemj wrote: »

The county council effectively gave up on Dun Laoghaire as a retail hub when they gave the go-ahead for Dundrum.

What does the Council have to do with retail full stop? They dont own the shops, they didnt invest the billions to build Dundrum and they dont decide the offerings and the customer behaviour on any main street including DL, the market and entrepreneurs do. And the level of Rates are the same right across the Dublin Councils so there can be no claims of unfair advantage. This is about those who were prepared to establish a vision and take a risk and those who werent.

Dun Laoghaire's problem is that it has about 3 different business associations that work against each other and have very different goals and agendas. Its not the Council's job to come up with business ingenuity.

Stephen15

I bet the traders who are calling for free parking will the first to complain when people start using DL town as a free park and ride for the DART and the 46a if free parking was ever introduced it is a riddiculous complaint.

ted1

Stephen15 wrote: »

I bet the traders who are calling for free parking will the first to complain when people start using DL town as a free park and ride for the DART and the 46a if free parking was ever introduced it is a riddiculous complaint.

It’s easy to provide free parking for a limited time. Just go to a machine and get a ticket. Free for the first hour after that you pay

Eliminates the park and ride people

EricPraline

ted1 wrote: »

It’s easy to provide free parking for a limited time. Just go to a machine and get a ticket. Free for the first hour after that you pay

Eliminates the park and ride people

Also, for on-street parking, implementing a maximum stay within a given area (e.g. 3 hours) has worked well in other parts of Dublin in terms of eliminating excessive park-and-ride. No reason it wouldn't work in DL.

Homesick Alien

Maybe I can give a slightly different perspective on all this. I moved to Dun Laoghaire 3 years ago and live about a 5 minute walk from the shopping centre. I’m not from Dublin and honestly knew nothing about Dun Laoghaire before moving there so I suppose my views are unbiased to that extent.



I don’t think Dun Laoghaire should be compared to Dundrum, Carrickmines or Stillorgan. Those places are where you go if you specifically want to go shopping for something whereas Dun Laoghaire is for a pleasurable day out for a meal, a walk and a bit of shopping thrown in. I like the main street and its mix of shops. I like the charity shops – they’re some of the busiest shops on the street. New places like Vinyl, the Big Up, Sostrene Grene show there is life in the old dog yet. A street full of Zaras, H&Ms, Topshops etc. will turn it into the same homogenised high street as town in Ireland.



It’s maybe because I rarely have cause to drive to Dun Laoghaire but I’ve never understood the griping about parking. There’s €5 all day parking in abundance by the piers and also in the library car park at the weekend. There’s parking at the two shopping centres and in the pavilion centre. It seems to me that if people can’t get a spot on street then they immediately throw their hands up and complain. The sea front road is at a standstill on Sundays with people looking for that elusive spot. Add to that the bus and dart connectivity and I really don’t get it.



There’s a wealth of great cafes and restaurants like Curious Monkey, Two Beans, Harry’s, Michie, Gourmet Food Parlour, Chocolat de Fred, White Tea, Feast, Zero Zero, Strudel, JJ Darboven and new places opening all the time. Dun Laoghaire has some of the best coffee in Dublin!



Dun Laoghaire has beaches on its doorstep and a new baths complex coming, beautiful parks, a magnificent library, a theatre, a cinema and pleasure piers.



Yes it’s not perfect. Planning mistakes have been made in the past. The shopping centre is a true eyesore. The stretch between Dunnes and the Big Up is around 5 or 6 vacant premises in a row because Dunnes is sitting on them and refusing to do anything with them. There's no late bars which means people are less likely to come for a night out. I agree with other posters that they could do with more than Penneys to attract the younger crowd.



But I love Dun Laoghaire and don’t think it’s as doomed as everyone would think. It’s a really desirable place to live and as long as people want to come and live here the town will survive and hopefully thrive. That’s my tuppence anyway.

josip

Some people would say that the charity shops present a significant obstacle to normal small scale retail in Dun Laoghaire.
They have lower overheads than competing privately owned business, and because they're 'charities', they source a lot of their products from people for free.
If you were thinking of opening a clothes shop or 2nd hand book shop for example, would you choose Dun Laoghaire?

coylemj

Larbre34 wrote: »

What does the Council have to do with retail full stop?

The council decides on zoning and they are the first port of call if you want planning permission, so yes, they most certainly do have something to do with retail. Zoning the tranche of land that is now Dundrum SC for retail was a direct response to the weekly mass exodus of DL shoppers to outside the borough to do their shopping.

Larbre34 wrote: »

.... and they dont decide the offerings and the customer behaviour on any main street including DL, the market and entrepreneurs do.

A few years go, the council decided to close the main street to all private traffic, this ripped the heart out of the borough because large numbers of people (especially women) did not feel safe walking down empty streets. By the time they saw the error of the policy, people had moved on and the situation that exists today is the result.

Not saying there wouldn't have been a fallout from the financial crash but George's St. from York Road up to St. Michaels' Hospital suffered considerably from that traffic policy. If not for Bloomfield and the IMC cinema, the entire town centre would have died.

ted1

Homesick Alien wrote: »

Maybe I can give a slightly different perspective on all this. I moved to Dun Laoghaire 3 years ago and live about a 5 minute walk from the shopping centre. I’m not from Dublin and honestly knew nothing about Dun Laoghaire before moving there so I suppose my views are unbiased to that extent.



I don’t think Dun Laoghaire should be compared to Dundrum, Carrickmines or Stillorgan. Those places are where you go if you specifically want to go shopping for something whereas Dun Laoghaire is for a pleasurable day out for a meal, a walk and a bit of shopping thrown in. I like the main street and its mix of shops. I like the charity shops – they’re some of the busiest shops on the street. New places like Vinyl, the Big Up, Sostrene Grene show there is life in the old dog yet. A street full of Zaras, H&Ms, Topshops etc. will turn it into the same homogenised high street as town in Ireland.



It’s maybe because I rarely have cause to drive to Dun Laoghaire but I’ve never understood the griping about parking. There’s €5 all day parking in abundance by the piers and also in the library car park at the weekend. There’s parking at the two shopping centres and in the pavilion centre. It seems to me that if people can’t get a spot on street then they immediately throw their hands up and complain. The sea front road is at a standstill on Sundays with people looking for that elusive spot. Add to that the bus and dart connectivity and I really don’t get it.



There’s a wealth of great cafes and restaurants like Curious Monkey, Two Beans, Harry’s, Michie, Gourmet Food Parlour, Chocolat de Fred, White Tea, Feast, Zero Zero, Strudel, JJ Darboven and new places opening all the time. Dun Laoghaire has some of the best coffee in Dublin!



Dun Laoghaire has beaches on its doorstep and a new baths complex coming, beautiful parks, a magnificent library, a theatre, a cinema and pleasure piers.



Yes it’s not perfect. Planning mistakes have been made in the past. The shopping centre is a true eyesore. The stretch between Dunnes and the Big Up is around 5 or 6 vacant premises in a row because Dunnes is sitting on them and refusing to do anything with them. There's no late bars which means people are less likely to come for a night out. I agree with other posters that they could do with more than Penneys to attract the younger crowd.



But I love Dun Laoghaire and don’t think it’s as doomed as everyone would think. It’s a really desirable place to live and as long as people want to come and live here the town will survive and hopefully thrive. That’s my tuppence anyway.

There’s no new bath complex. There’s a footpath going where the Victorian baths was.

A lot of the problem isn’t the cost of parking but the over zealous enforcement. 5 minutes late? Here’s a ticket.

Larbre34

coylemj wrote: »

The council decides on zoning and they are the first port of call if you want planning permission, so yes, they most certainly do have something to do with retail. Zoning the tranche of land that is now Dundrum SC for retail was a direct response to the weekly mass exodus of DL shoppers to outside the borough to do their shopping.

The zoning around Dun Laoghaire has scarcely changed in decades, except for the massive amount of new people now living nearby on the former Golf Course site. Lots of upwardly mobile customers (if they have anything left after paying those mortgages)

Having worked with people who designed it, Dundrum was conceived as an alternative to the City Centre by its investors, not Dun Laoghaire in any shape. Dun Laoghaire should have focussed on making itself distinct, which it largely does IMO. The Council was always going to approve Dundrum because it is funded by Rates, and unlike the other Dublin Councils it didnt have a rates cash cow to rely on (Airport, Liffey Valley, City Centre etc)

SimonLynch

The Blue Gardenia in Brittas has reopened after a lengthy closure.

Chinasea

coylemj wrote: »

The

A few years go, the council decided to close the main street to all private traffic, this ripped the heart out of the borough because large numbers of people (especially women) did not feel safe walking down empty streets. By the time they saw the error of the policy, people had moved on and the situation that exists today is the result.

So not true.

So when Grafton Street was pedestrianised way back in the 70s the retail business nose dived and women were scared to walk down a car free Street.

Many European cities of equivalent size and genre are fully pedestrianised for years, and work perfectly well, are 100 times more pleasant to walk through and I don't think the women are too scared to walk down the town cause there are no cars.

tomofson

SimonLynch wrote: »

The Blue Gardenia in Brittas has reopened after a lengthy closure.

How can you get to brittas bay via public transport, I am in Dun Laoghaire.