How much tax should a landlord pay?

Ray Palmer

Following on from the household tax and the second resident tax I am just wondering how much tax do people think LLs should pay?
Their is the PRTB,PRSI,income tax, household tax and property tax at the moment.

So it does end up about 50% tax being paid on the income before expenses. It seems lots of people reckon that LLs should pay more tax than this. I just don't get what the logic is or what point people think it is reasonable.

Considering a LL will have paid stamp duty,inheritance and tax on the money they saved to buy the house it's not like they pay a small amount of tax. I personally think nobody should be taxed in order to prevent a service from being affordable to supply, not just LL that applies to everybody.

daltonmd

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Following on from the household tax and the second resident tax I am just wondering how much tax do people think LLs should pay?
Their is the PRTB,PRSI,income tax, household tax and property tax at the moment.

So it does end up about 50% tax being paid on the income before expenses. It seems lots of people reckon that LLs should pay more tax than this. I just don't get what the logic is or what point people think it is reasonable.

Considering a LL will have paid stamp duty,inheritance and tax on the money they saved to buy the house it's not like they pay a small amount of tax. I personally think nobody should be taxed in order to prevent a service from being affordable to supply, not just LL that applies to everybody.

I don't think anyone wants landlords to pay more tax - objecting to a landlord passing on a tax that has been imposed on him is a different matter.

When a tenant rents they know that they do not and never will have the benefit of owning the property, when a landlord buys property to rent then they know they will.

In the case of accidental landlords - well that's nothing to do with the tenants.

Zamboni

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Following on from the household tax and the second resident tax I am just wondering how much tax do people think LLs should pay?
Their is the PRTB,PRSI,income tax, household tax and property tax at the moment.

Leaving the PRTB cost aside all of those taxes are not exclusive to landlords.
They are applicable to all PAYE workers and property owners.
Is there some reason these taxes should not apply to landlords?

How much tax should taxi men pay?
There is Motor Tax, PRSI. Income Tax, Household and property tax?

Your question is redundant.

Ray Palmer

Zamboni wrote: »

Leaving the PRTB cost aside all of those taxes are not exclusive to landlords.
They are applicable to all PAYE workers and property owners.
Is there some reason these taxes should not apply to landlords?

How much tax should taxi men pay?
There is Motor Tax, PRSI. Income Tax, Household and property tax?

Your question is redundant.

Additional household charge and second residential tax and the PRTB are all additional taxes on the LL. PRSI being charged on property income is new. Charging tax on the income and then charging for having the item is certainly double taxation. To charge a property tax and add another property tax after charging a property tax on the purchase is quadruple taxation and that is ignoring the fact you paid the tax on the income you use to buy the property.

daltonmd

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Additional household charge and second residential tax and the PRTB are all additional taxes on the LL. PRSI being charged on property income is new. Charging tax on the income and then charging for having the item is certainly double taxation. To charge a property tax and add another property tax after charging a property tax on the purchase is quadruple taxation and that is ignoring the fact you paid the tax on the income you use to buy the property.

And renters pay what on the rent that they pay landlords? I mean if you feel that the taxes are unfair on the landlords, why should they be any fairer on tenants?

Mister Dread

daltonmd wrote: »

I don't think anyone wants landlords to pay more tax - objecting to a landlord passing on a tax that has been imposed on him is a different matter.

When a tenant rents they know that they do not and never will have the benefit of owning the property, when a landlord buys property to rent then they know they will.

In the case of accidental landlords - well that's nothing to do with the tenants.

I'd like to see them pay a lot more tax as the buy-to-let brigade were the fundamental drivers of our insane property bubble that has left us with a decade of depression. These people should be taxed to pay for the damage their greed and stupidity has caused.

daltonmd

Mister Dread wrote: »

I'd like to see them pay a lot more tax as the buy-to-let brigade were the fundamental drivers of our insane property bubble that has left us with a decade of depression. These people should be taxed to pay for the damage their greed and stupidity has caused.

Personally I don't care what taxes they pay - as long as they don't feel they can pass them to tenants I couldn't care less.

I didn't want some of their profits and I certainly don't want to share their losses either!!!

Ray Palmer

Mister Dread wrote: »

I'd like to see them pay a lot more tax as the buy-to-let brigade were the fundamental drivers of our insane property bubble that has left us with a decade of depression. These people should be taxed to pay for the damage their greed and stupidity has caused.

I reckon quite a lot of people have this view. What is interesting it ignores the fact not all LLs bought during the boom and that people buying residential properties also played a much bigger part in it. To suggest the big reason for house prices is the fault of a minority of purchases is a bit crazy IMHO.

Wile E. Coyote

Why should landlords be forced to pay more tax than anyone else? And to claim that they cause the property bubble and collapse of the economy is just stupid.

athtrasna

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I reckon quite a lot of people have this view. What is interesting it ignores the fact not all LLs bought during the boom and that people buying residential properties also played a much bigger part in it. To suggest the big reason for house prices is the fault of a minority of purchases is a bit crazy IMHO.

And also that there are now a lot of reluctant landlords where people are having to rent out properties they bought in order to make some mortgage repayments. Not everyone who bought in the boom and is a landlord now, did it to make money. Many, probably most, bought to have a roof over their heads.

howtomake

I still feel there's a lot of misdirected anger towards each other, I don't know maybe its just me.

daltonmd

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Why should landlords be forced to pay more tax than anyone else? And to claim that they cause the property bubble and collapse of the economy is just stupid.

But it isn't just landlords - it's property owners.....

Zamboni

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I personally think nobody should be taxed in order to prevent a service from being affordable to supply, not just LL that applies to everybody.

If a business or investment becomes unsustainable surely the simple logical conclusion is to simply invest elsewhere?

Wile E. Coyote

daltonmd wrote: »

But it isn't just landlords - it's property owners.....

I know the new household charge refers to all property owners. My response was really directed at Mister Dread who said -

'I'd like to see them pay a lot more tax as the buy-to-let brigade were the fundamental drivers of our insane property bubble that has left us with a decade of depression. These people should be taxed to pay for the damage their greed and stupidity has caused.'

daltonmd

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I know the new household charge refers to all property owners. My response was really directed at Mister Dread who said -

'I'd like to see them pay a lot more tax as the buy-to-let brigade were the fundamental drivers of our insane property bubble that has left us with a decade of depression. These people should be taxed to pay for the damage their greed and stupidity has caused.'

Ah, get ya.

The_Conductor

Buy-to-let investors accounted for less than 20% of all property transactions from 2002 onwards- the single largest group of people investing in residential property were the first time buyers. Meanwhile rental accommodation as a percentage of our housing stock- fell to an alltime low in the same period.

Buy-to-let investors were not the cause of the Irish property boom (and burst)- the Irish psyche, and in particular our almost unique 'need' to own our own property- alongside the availability of cheap credit- were what has caused our current economic nightmare.

Some people seem to have very Victorian ideas about Landlords as a group of individuals. Nowadays- you are as likely to have a landlord who owns a single property that he or she lets- than you are a mogul with a whole property portfolio.

If there is anger to be directed anywhere- it should be at those who are coming up with hare-brained taxation plans, that simply don't make sense.

How much tax should a landlord pay? As a portion of his or her income- they should pay the exact same as anyone else in my opinion. If they are clearing 50k net- perhaps this would be 50% (taking any other income they have into account).

You can't arbitrarily target Landlords as a group- purely because you feel like it (notwithstanding the PRSI they're bringing in on the gross income- an anamoly if ever there was one).