Fracking in West Clare

Johnboy1951

CptSternn wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/interview-%E2%80%98it-started-with-nosebleeds%E2%80%99-%E2%80%93-what-fracking-did-to-one-us-town/

‘It started with nosebleeds’ – what fracking did to one US town

Now I went to Canada, and I just got back from Austrian talking about this same subejct. Both of those countries signed mineral agreements that pay 10 per cent royalties. In Dish, two decades ago, they got 16 per cent royalties. And now the going rate is 20-25 per cent. So if your government has already signed a lease, look at that lease. Because they’ve probably already been taken advantage of. Do you think that they’re smart enough to regulate an industry that’s already taken advantage of them once?

If I understand correctly the agreement in Ireland has 0% royalty payments.




***

Has anyone else heard about some ground testing around the county?
Some time last year there were test drillings on land in the Newmarket-on-Fergus area, and I now hear of lengths of cables and such being strung across lands in the Doora area outside Ennis, with some form of monitoring equipment.

Of course most of that is likely not connected to oil/gas, but to some other minerals ..... lead, zinc etc.

Maybe this should be under a different heading .... 'The Industrialisation of Clare' or such ....

luap_42

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I would be happy for the EPA to investigate hydraulic fracking and give an independent objective report on it.
Then we could all have an informed opinion of it.

The EPA, our lovely 'environmental protection' agency, has been directed by Pat Rabitte to consult with 'experts' from the University of Aberdeen. The University of Aberdeen is largely funded by Shell Oil. Shell Oil is completely in favour of fracking. What do you think the EPAs conclusion will be? This is just another stitch-up by a useless quango/agency that cannot even get our water supplies and sewage processing up to EU standards. The EPA are a fracking joke. Pat Rabitte is a fracking joke. And the energy companies involved along with those they sponsor are corporate greed incarnate. They are the closest thing to evil in our modern world. And you would give these profit-driven life-suckers a hearing? You must be either crazy, or part of their insidious misinformation campaign to slither out from their amoral cesspool into our relatively healty and pristine environment any way they can...

Builderfromhell

Open- panel discussion this Sunday (15 April 2012) in Glór, Ennis at 7pm.
Don't know who is speaking but I understand there is a charge to enter.

Patrick 74

Fracking gets the green light in the UK...on the Guardian this morning.The same thing will happen here...only a matter of time.It will be a good time go get some wind turbines up while peoples objections and protests are directed at Fracking;)

Builderfromhell

Patrick 74 wrote: »

Fracking gets the green light in the UK...on the Guardian this morning.The same thing will happen here...only a matter of time.It will be a good time go get some wind turbines up while peoples objections and protests are directed at Fracking;)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/17/gas-fracking-gets-green-light

Article in UK Guardian confirming that fracking has been given go ahead in UK.:mad:

Carazy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Has anyone else heard about some ground testing around the county?
Some time last year there were test drillings on land in the Newmarket-on-Fergus area, and I now hear of lengths of cables and such being strung across lands in the Doora area outside Ennis, with some form of monitoring equipment.

Of course most of that is likely not connected to oil/gas, but to some other minerals ..... lead, zinc etc.

Maybe this should be under a different heading .... 'The Industrialisation of Clare' or such ....

That monitoring equipment is dow for only short periods of tim 5 days usually in Doora, that was a uninvasive method of geting an idea to the possible (I emphasise possible minereal areas). The monitors are not permanent sensors. There were mines in the area years ago and are just being explored again.

CptSternn

Human-made earthquakes reported in central U.S | Reuters

The number of earthquakes in the central United States rose "spectacularly" near where oil and gas drillers disposed of wastewater underground, a process that may have caused geologic faults to slip, U.S. government geologists report.

More and more evidence about the true costs of this process continues to come to light.

Carazy

CptSternn wrote: »

Human-made earthquakes reported in central U.S | Reuters



More and more evidence about the true costs of this process continues to come to light.

You do know that magnitude 3 earthquakes are almost unoticable to human but only through the richter scale. Yes it is movement but Hydraulic fracturing I am against but the magnitude 3 argument is not the strongest in the slightest.

luap_42

minnow wrote: »

In Clare the recent press centres on an exploration licence given to a company Enegi Oil for south west Clare (approx from Doonbeg down to Loop Head). They are the very early stages of re-evaluating old data to see if it is worth drilling trial wells. More info at their website here.

1. Doonbeg and the Loop Head region is one of our largely forgotten and underdeveloped areas of coastal beauty. Tell us exactly why fracking good or bad should be allowed in this region? What benefit will there be to the environment, health, the local economy?

minnow wrote: »

It is worth noting that fracking has been done for 50 years all over the world, and is still done in environmentally conscious countries like Germany and Holland for oil & gas developments. The recent negative press centres around poor practices by some operators in the USA in developing shallower shale gas fields in which water pollution etc has taken place.

2. The controversy surrounding fracking is due to energy companies employing the cheapest form of fracturing, which WILL damage the environment, water supplies and animal/human health. Do you seriously expect these energy companies to use a more expensive method voluntarily? I think their American/Canadian shareholders would have something to say about that...

minnow wrote: »

Unfortunately, the current over-reaction is based on a lot of hearsay and scare tactics and not based on objective facts about a long history of fracking.

As someone with an indirect connection with the oil & gas industry, I am disappointed about the bad press and lack of objective facts in the fracking debate.

3. Over-reaction? Have you watched Gasland? How can you "over-react" to that? Your indirect connection to the oil and gas industry obviously clouds your judgement about where to draw the line when protecting our natural environment. Anyway, why should these companies be given any licence for mining/extraction? What benefit is there to the county? As far as the eye can see the benefit is NONE, ZERO, NADA. So I ask again. Why should these companies be allowed to pillage our natural resources? What is the benefit for the region, environment, local people? You seem to be part of the vested interest/PR that always surfaces when energy/mining companies are challenged about environmental issues.

luap_42

minnow wrote: »

Another general question worth asking is whether we want a bunch of gombeen councillors basically attempting to override existing national legislation for what I can only imagine are populist motives, rather than a body such as the EPA looking at the real issues and regulating the practice?

Imagine what uproar there would be if they tried to ban septic tanks in Clare...

The EPA? For once I think I'd prefer a bunch of gombeen councillors make the decision. The EPA are a government quango and do not serve their purpose, which is supposed to be to protect the environment and welfare of life dependant on the environment. They have no experience in fracking and have been told to take their advice from a university funded largely by Shell Oil who naturally favour fracking. Give me the gombeen councillors any day, at least they might represent the county and local interests, and not big energy corporate interests. What exactly is the national legislation you refer to? There is none. Another fallacy from someone with vested interests, more PR from someone with links to the oil and gas industry. And what is wrong with populist motives? Surely that is the gombeen councillors doing their job, representing the peoples desire for their own local area! I was at the fracking meetings, and personally know the activists involved who persuaded the councillors to attend the meetings and then change the local area plan. That is local democracy in action, no brown envelopes in sight, just informed people, being represented by their gombeen councillors. You would prefer corporate interests determine the outcome behind closed doors at a national level with politicians that don't give a flying f%*k about local opinion, people or environment. What you are saying is that Shell et al should be allowed to do whatever they want once they buy our government, and the local people who will be first affected by whatever happens should have no say in the matter. Your opinion is irrelvant since you have vested interests in the matter, and your attitude to local people standing up for themselves stinks of a PR campaign sponsored by those very interests who would benefit at the expense of the local area.

Johnboy1951

I came across this today ...... besides a lot of 'interesting' content ...... it seems to show that some investors are not very happy with fracking companies and want guarantees of operational good behaviour before investing.

The very fact that some investors consider this a necessity seems to imply they do not believe all is right with the fracking industry at present.

If investors are not happy, should we be even more concerned?


http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/Major_Investors_Back_IEA_Call_for_Golden_Rules_999.html

Jim Martin

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I came across this today ...... besides a lot of 'interesting' content ...... it seems to show that some investors are not very happy with fracking companies and want guarantees of operational good behaviour before investing.

The very fact that some investors consider this a necessity seems to imply they do not believe all is right with the fracking industry at present.

If investors are not happy, should we be even more concerned?


http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/Major_Investors_Back_IEA_Call_for_Golden_Rules_999.html

Yes!

Johnboy1951

I know this has been posted elsewhere on Boards, but thought it should also be posted in this thread .....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/05/us/mineral-leases-give-boost-to-rural-ohio.html?_r=1&hp


IMO, it shows what can be done, if people are properly organised .......

Here in Noble County, where vehicle repair and convenience stores are economic mainstays, Eclipse Resources, a Pennsylvania company, mailed $16 million in oil- and gas-leasing checks last month to 70 households whose property has been found to sit atop oil and gas reserves. Working with a lawyer in nearby Marietta, the residents were able to band together to negotiate an unusually lucrative deal with the company that paid $4,000 an acre and 19 percent royalties on oil and gas production, and included safeguards to protect water and land. (The standard has been $20 to $30 an acre, one-sixth royalty rates, and no protections for water and land.)

RichieO

This is quite an in-depth article, very worrying, especially the longer term effects, DON'T ALLOW IT IN CLARE!!!

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-fracking-wastewater-wells-poisoning-ground-beneath-our-feeth&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_ENGYSUS_20120628

Carazy

RichieO wrote: »

This is quite an in-depth article, very worrying, especially the longer term effects, DON'T ALLOW IT IN CLARE!!!

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-fracking-wastewater-wells-poisoning-ground-beneath-our-feeth&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_ENGYSUS_20120628

Is there a synopsis of that in depth article which has known facts without 'may happen' heresay.

CptSternn

http://www.thejournal.ie/fracking-author-links-to-gas-535504-Jul2012/

Author of pro-fracking study failed to disclose gas interests – watchdog

AN AMERICAN university study that claimed ‘fracking’ for gas deep beneath the Earth’s surface did not cause water contamination was led by a US professor with financial ties to the gas industry, a watchdog group claimed today.

Lead author Charles ‘Chip’ Groat, of the University of Texas, told reporters that the university had turned down all industry funds for the study, when the research on hydraulic fracturing was presented at a major science conference in Canada in February.

However, an investigation by the Public Accountability Initiative (PAI) found that Groat himself has been on the board of the Houston-based Plains Exploration and Production Company for several years.

Groat was paid more than $400,000 in cash and stock by the company in 2011, and holds a near $1.6 million stake in the company’s stock, it said.

Kevin Connor, the director of the nonprofit PAI, told AFP the report was presented as if it were an independent study on fracking, when it actually represented a “conflict of interest” that should have been disclosed.

...

Groat also failed to disclose his gas industry ties to the peer-reviewers, the university, or the organisers of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which hosted the conference in Vancouver where it was released.

This is a big deal. This man is responsible for many of the pro-fracking articles you read, and many other pro-fracking pundits all use his studies as proof for their argument.

golden8

That is absolutely great news, stating the obvious it has discredited all the pro fracking fraternity who have based their opinions on this.

RichieO

Whatever the long term outcome of fracking may be, there is plenty of reason to sit on the decision to frack, I feel sure there will be more news along these lines, bear in mind we do not have the the space here to make massive misjudgements, just watch the US for a while, then decide...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23271168