Insomnia (was Starbucks) opening in Sutton and now Howth!

Muahahaha

They have moved into all sorts really, from the former Bewleys on Westmoreland to the former newsagents at O'Connell bridge.

I think there is of course space and a need for places like Starbucks. But what I'd question is DCC are allowing them to execute their well documented strategy of saturating an area with Starbucks like they have now done thoughout the O'Connell St to Stephens Green corridor.

The Simpsons did a piss take of the Starbucks saturation strategy way back sometime in the late 1990's/early 2000's. And now in 2016 we have come to see it come to play out in Dublin city centre (as well as lots of other cities). Its as if life is imitating art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRz3vfRFfs4

ProudDUB

I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that a coffee shop opening up, where there wasn't one before, isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if its a Starbucks. On O'Connell St, Talbot St, and Henry St....how many cafes and coffee shops were there previously?

I'm not talking about pubs or hotels that serve coffee. Nor am I talking about the coffee docks/restaurants in the various department stores like Clerys, Arnotts or Dunnes. I mean stand alone coffee shops/cafes on their own? There are not that many, not ones that I actually enjoy spending time in.....yes Ann's and Cafe Kylemore, stuck in your 1970's time warps, I am looking at you.

In the case of Starbucks & their well known saturation policy, I am all for the DCC having a policy that they have to be at least a mile apart, or something like that. They are just taking the piss at this stage.

newacc2015

ProudDUB wrote: »

I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that a coffee shop opening up, where there wasn't one before, isn't necessarily a bad thing, even if its a Starbucks. On O'Connell St, Talbot St, and Henry St....how many cafes and coffee shops were there previously?

I'm not talking about pubs or hotels that serve coffee. Nor am I talking about the coffee docks/restaurants in the various department stores like Clerys, Arnotts or Dunnes. I mean stand alone coffee shops/cafes on their own? There are not that many, not ones that I actually enjoy spending time in.....yes Ann's and Cafe Kylemore, stuck in your 1970's time warps, I am looking at you.

In the case of Starbucks & their well known saturation policy, I am all for the DCC having a policy that they have to be at least a mile apart, or something like that. They are just taking the piss at this stage.

Irish consumers tastes have changed. We never had a coffee culture like Italy, Austria or Turkey. We only now appreciate quality (Starbucks doesnt count). Most of these cafes are take aways. They have been facilitated by the fact, that Dublin City is literally becoming one glorified shopping centre/ office space. I have read that coffee is one thing that Irish consumers will not cut back on versus the cinema or dining out.

You cant have a policy against one company. I think small Irish Chains like Coffee Angel, 3FE etc will slow down Starbucks. None of my friends go to Starbucks. It is over priced and quality is horrific. Coffee Angel etc are doing really well, as the coffee is good value and it is incredible. There is so many new independent Irish owned coffee shops in Dublin versus new starbucks.

Hollister11

newacc2015 wrote: »

Irish consumers tastes have changed. We never had a coffee culture like Italy, Austria or Turkey. We only now appreciate quality (Starbucks doesnt count). Most of these cafes are take aways. They have been facilitated by the fact, that Dublin City is literally becoming one glorified shopping centre/ office space. I have read that coffee is one thing that Irish consumers will not cut back on versus the cinema or dining out.

You cant have a policy against one company. I think small Irish Chains like Coffee Angel, 3FE etc will slow down Starbucks. None of my friends go to Starbucks. It is over priced and quality is horrific. Coffee Angel etc are doing really well, as the coffee is good value and it is incredible. There is so many new independent Irish owned coffee shops in Dublin versus new starbucks.

I'm not a big coffee drinker, in fact i rarely drink it, but I love a cup of tea. I do get take out tea probably three times a week, but never from Starbucks.

I refuse to support a multinational, who refuses to pay there taxes here. I support smaller places like seven wonders, or irish chains like Insomnia (There are 5 of them on the one street where my college is)

Turtle_

Actually, speaking of Starbucks, they actually have permission for the one in Howth but they've left huge dumpsters on the footpath outside that are often overfilled. They also only have one toilet.

It just smacks of greed. Like, is that actually allowed? To only have the one toilet in a premises that seats that many people? And to leave the rubbish outside on the footpath? All the other restaurants and cafes manage to keep their refuse somewhere other than the footpath. It's unsightly. They have a second door, why didn't they use that space at the back to put in more storage space for their bins and more WCs for the customers? Oh yeah, reduces the number of tables..

I went looking for the documentation they submitted in their planning application but the Documents tab link on the FCC website for their applications (DAC and Change of Use) don't seem to be working. Anyone else able to access them?

I find it hard to believe that they were legitimately granted permission for dumpsters on the footpath and only one WC...

ProudDUB

newacc2015 wrote: »

Irish consumers tastes have changed. We never had a coffee culture like Italy, Austria or Turkey. We only now appreciate quality (Starbucks doesnt count). Most of these cafes are take aways. They have been facilitated by the fact, that Dublin City is literally becoming one glorified shopping centre/ office space. I have read that coffee is one thing that Irish consumers will not cut back on versus the cinema or dining out.

You cant have a policy against one company. I think small Irish Chains like Coffee Angel, 3FE etc will slow down Starbucks. None of my friends go to Starbucks. It is over priced and quality is horrific. Coffee Angel etc are doing really well, as the coffee is good value and it is incredible. There is so many new independent Irish owned coffee shops in Dublin versus new starbucks.

We never had a coffee culture, you are right about that. But we do have a culture of loving places to congregate, hangout, have a natter etc etc. That is why the likes of Bewleys became a beloved part of our cities culture, even though their milky white coffee tasted like baby vomit.

We are not a country or city of coffee snobs. The true coffee aficionado may make the trek to Docklands for a cuppa Joe at 3fE. The average punter, shopper, day tripper up for the match or concert, office worker, tourist, or student in the city centre won't. And that is where Starbucks can make their killing.

BowWow

Planning Permission notice now up outside former Dinghy Supplies premises, requesting change of use to Coffee Shop.

eviltimeban

BowWow wrote: »

Planning Permission notice now up outside former Dinghy Supplies premises, requesting change of use to Coffee Shop.

I wonder if that's the guy who set up in Apache?

Hollister11

eviltimeban wrote: »

I wonder if that's the guy who set up in Apache?

The Coast view cafe guy?

John_Rambo

BowWow wrote: »

Planning Permission notice now up outside former Dinghy Supplies premises, requesting change of use to Coffee Shop.

Bloody hell! I hope they're still in business. They should be billionaires and have shops all over the country. The original yacht chandler.

Pox to get parking there, must be aiming at the walkers and cyclists.

ProudDUB

John_Rambo wrote: »

Bloody hell! I hope they're still in business. They should be billionaires and have shops all over the country. The original yacht chandler.

Pox to get parking there, must be aiming at the walkers and cyclists.

That was my first thought too.

There really is a dearth of coffee shops between Sutton Cross and Clontarf. If you don't want to deal with the traffic/lack of parking/roadworks at both ends of the coast road, there isn't really a whole lot in between, that aren't pubs. Baldoyle and the coast road end of Killbarack aren't well served either. Surprising really, as the area has a massive population and it's fairly well heeled too.

neris

John_Rambo wrote: »

Bloody hell! I hope they're still in business. They should be billionaires and have shops all over the country. The original yacht chandler.

Pox to get parking there, must be aiming at the walkers and cyclists.

Closed down ages ago. It wasnt a great shop and with the internet getting gear and stuff was easier from the uk plus good modern chandlers opened in swords that more people were using. They had the agency aswell for Laser boats for years which they lost to a crowd up north

John_Rambo

ProudDUB wrote: »

That was my first thought too.

There really is a dearth of coffee shops between Sutton Cross and Clontarf. If you don't want to deal with the traffic/lack of parking/roadworks at both ends of the coast road, there isn't really a whole lot in between, that aren't pubs. Baldoyle and the coast road end of Killbarack aren't well served either. Surprising really, as the area has a massive population and it's fairly well heeled too.

They MUST be targeting the cyclists then, don't forget, the new cycleway is being upgraded.

neris wrote: »

Closed down ages ago. It wasnt a great shop and with the internet getting gear and stuff was easier from the uk plus good modern chandlers opened in swords that more people were using. They had the agency aswell for Laser boats for years which they lost to a crowd up north

At one stage it was the only place on the Northside, it was a great shop pre-internet on one of the only roads to Howth! Regatta days had people queuing for very very expensive lines, rigs, vanes, cleats, blocks etc... Didn't know they lost the Laser franchise. I've been out of the loop regarding sailing. I don't think they were ever interested in business to be honest, just a small shop supporting the lifestyle. Realistically, they could have monopolised the Dublin market, even the Irish market.

ProudDUB

John_Rambo wrote: »

They MUST be targeting the cyclists then, don't forget, the new cycleway is being upgraded.



At one stage it was the only place on the Northside, it was a great shop pre-internet on one of the only roads to Howth! Regatta days had people queuing for very very expensive lines, rigs, vanes, cleats, blocks etc... Didn't know they lost the Laser franchise. I've been out of the loop regarding sailing. I don't think they were ever interested in business to be honest, just a small shop supporting the lifestyle. Realistically, they could have monopolised the Dublin market, even the Irish market.

Yep. And maybe they've seen the explosion of places to get a daycint cuppa Joe & some grub in Sutton Cross & they've decided to get a piece of the action. When I moved to Sutton 4 years ago, there was just Coffeys (which was very old fashioned) & the tiny place selling takeaway pizza. Now, there's Minetta Deli, Camille Thai, Insomnia, Starbucks and the little coffee shop and bakery inside Higgins Premium Butchers.

eviltimeban

Can't see them doing much business along the coast. Cyclists are going to be on the other side of the road, and they'll have to cross a busy road to get there. Same with walkers along that path. Plus, at least cafes in Sutton Cross or Howth are at the end of a cycle journey, whereas the coast road location would be mid-cycle (IMO).

As for places to get coffee from Sutton - Clontarf, Il Fornaio do coffee but I'm not sure what capacity during the day. The Raheny garden centre apparently has good coffee. There's often carts and vendors in St Anne's Park, Red Stables area. There's places in Raheny - Killester before you hit Clontarf. They just aren't on the coast road, which makes sense as it's harder to parking along there.

ProudDUB

There is a pedestrian crossing at Bayside Blvd, which is 0.3 of a km away. You'd walk it in minute or two. There are loads of housing estates behind, it so they won't just be relying on walkers/cyclists using the coastal paths for business. Locals also won't be put off by the lack of parking.

whiskeyman

A coffee shop with a coast view could do well.
All the ones in Sutton are at Sutton cross.
If they do it right, it could be a lovely spot to meet up, cyclists etc... and could get good reviews for tourists.

expectationlost

eviltimeban wrote: »

I wonder if that's the guy who set up in Apache?

they were trying to change the sop beside apache into a cafe/take out place but it got rejected (i think) because of parking issues, as in total lack of parking, the Dinghy place has some spaces outside it though.

Turtle_

Don't think it's going to have views, had a look at the planning permission and it's occupying the same area of the building as the shop did.

eviltimeban

expectationlost wrote: »

they were trying to change the sop beside apache into a cafe/take out place but it got rejected (i think) because of parking issues, as in total lack of parking, the Dinghy place has some spaces outside it though.

For like two cars.

expectationlost

eviltimeban wrote: »

For like two cars.

1 disabled and a drop off/pick up, better then none outside the Apache with its urge for you to pick up coffee from its Coastal View cafe

Planning Reference
F16A/0135DescriptionChange of use of existing dinghy supplies premises to coffee shop including external signage.Location46 Dublin Road, Sutton, Dublin 13.Applicant NameLinda MurphyCurrent StatusDecidedMore Informationhttp://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=F16A/0135FEATURE_CREATE_DATENullRegistration Date05/04/2016SHAPE_Length189.796437SHAPE_Area1308.7767DECISION_DATE25/05/2016

daughter in law? looking to move into new business

oh place beside Apache got approved for cafe on its second go http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=F15A/0235 but perhaps they are settling for the coffee dock in apache

neris

expectationlost wrote: »

oh place beside Apache got approved for cafe on its second go http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=F15A/0235 but perhaps they are settling for the coffee dock in apache

could be i think the son may live in the next door and the father still lives above the shop

neris

I see the building that Ella was in up in Howth village is now a coffee shop/tea rooms

tricky D

Vanilla Du Cafe is the name. Selection isn't great though maybe that's just for the initial setup phase.

BowWow

tricky D wrote: »

Vanilla Du Cafe is the name. Selection isn't great though maybe that's just for the initial setup phase.

"Road Tested" it last week, bland coffee and a stale scone, wont be going again...

ProudDUB

tricky D wrote: »

Vanilla Du Cafe is the name. Selection isn't great though maybe that's just for the initial setup phase.

Any relation to Minetta Deli at Sutton Cross? The two sisters who run that have/had plans to open a second location in Howth village. Can't for the life of me remember the name of the premises they are taking over.

BowWow

I believe Minetta 2 is going into the old "Big Blue" premises beside the Abbey Graveyard.

Turtle_

BowWow wrote: »

I believe Minetta 2 is going into the old "Big Blue" premises beside the Abbey Graveyard.

Nice way to ensure it fails...

Hollister11

Turtle_ wrote: »

Nice way to ensure it fails...

That really isn't a great premises. A lot of people won't even know it's there.

There's premises on the main street for sale for 275K.

eviltimeban

Hollister11 wrote: »

That really isn't a great premises. A lot of people won't even know it's there.

There's premises on the main street for sale for 275K.

Be interesting to see what they come up with. I never eat in the deli but a new restaurant in Howth (hopefully with some new, interesting ideas) would be great.