Insomnia (was Starbucks) opening in Sutton and now Howth!

expectationlost

eviltimeban wrote: »

For like two cars.

1 disabled and a drop off/pick up, better then none outside the Apache with its urge for you to pick up coffee from its Coastal View cafe

Planning Reference
F16A/0135DescriptionChange of use of existing dinghy supplies premises to coffee shop including external signage.Location46 Dublin Road, Sutton, Dublin 13.Applicant NameLinda MurphyCurrent StatusDecidedMore Informationhttp://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=F16A/0135FEATURE_CREATE_DATENullRegistration Date05/04/2016SHAPE_Length189.796437SHAPE_Area1308.7767DECISION_DATE25/05/2016

daughter in law? looking to move into new business

oh place beside Apache got approved for cafe on its second go http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=F15A/0235 but perhaps they are settling for the coffee dock in apache

neris

expectationlost wrote: »

oh place beside Apache got approved for cafe on its second go http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=F15A/0235 but perhaps they are settling for the coffee dock in apache

could be i think the son may live in the next door and the father still lives above the shop

neris

I see the building that Ella was in up in Howth village is now a coffee shop/tea rooms

tricky D

Vanilla Du Cafe is the name. Selection isn't great though maybe that's just for the initial setup phase.

BowWow

tricky D wrote: »

Vanilla Du Cafe is the name. Selection isn't great though maybe that's just for the initial setup phase.

"Road Tested" it last week, bland coffee and a stale scone, wont be going again...

ProudDUB

tricky D wrote: »

Vanilla Du Cafe is the name. Selection isn't great though maybe that's just for the initial setup phase.

Any relation to Minetta Deli at Sutton Cross? The two sisters who run that have/had plans to open a second location in Howth village. Can't for the life of me remember the name of the premises they are taking over.

BowWow

I believe Minetta 2 is going into the old "Big Blue" premises beside the Abbey Graveyard.

Turtle_

BowWow wrote: »

I believe Minetta 2 is going into the old "Big Blue" premises beside the Abbey Graveyard.

Nice way to ensure it fails...

Hollister11

Turtle_ wrote: »

Nice way to ensure it fails...

That really isn't a great premises. A lot of people won't even know it's there.

There's premises on the main street for sale for 275K.

eviltimeban

Hollister11 wrote: »

That really isn't a great premises. A lot of people won't even know it's there.

There's premises on the main street for sale for 275K.

Be interesting to see what they come up with. I never eat in the deli but a new restaurant in Howth (hopefully with some new, interesting ideas) would be great.

Hollister11

eviltimeban wrote: »

Be interesting to see what they come up with. I never eat in the deli but a new restaurant in Howth (hopefully with some new, interesting ideas) would be great.

Good luck to them. I intend to try them out next time I'm in sutton for lunch. I have heard great things.

whiskeyman

Hollister11 wrote: »

Good luck to them. I intend to try them out next time I'm in sutton for lunch. I have heard great things.

Been in the sutton one a few times.
Very friendly and great menu. I've yet to try the pizzas, but they looked fab when I saw people getting takeaways.

tricky D

ProudDUB wrote: »

Any relation to Minetta Deli at Sutton Cross? The two sisters who run that have/had plans to open a second location in Howth village. Can't for the life of me remember the name of the premises they are taking over.

No idea but might ask around later.

ProudDUB

whiskeyman wrote: »

Been in the sutton one a few times.
Very friendly and great menu. I've yet to try the pizzas, but they looked fab when I saw people getting takeaways.

They do great grub, considering the tiny space they have to work with. I never eat in though, much as I'd like to try their pizza. They have the most uncomfortable seating I have ever sat on in my life. They have ancient, tiny, hard wooden seats that look like they were robbed from a 1940's primary school. If they got more comfortable seating (like Insomnia's next door) or just put pads on the ones they have, I'd eat in more often. I don't like a numb bum with my grub !

neris

BowWow wrote: »

I believe Minetta 2 is going into the old "Big Blue" premises beside the Abbey Graveyard.

i dont think any things ever lasted in that premises, for the numbers of tourists in howth very few of them actually go up that way. the cock tavern did reopen recently aswell though up there as the harbour bar. not sure but it is or will be a micro brewery aswell

tricky D

neris wrote: »

i dont think any things ever lasted in that premises, for the numbers of tourists in howth very few of them actually go up that way. the cock tavern did reopen recently aswell though up there as the harbour bar. not sure but it is or will be a micro brewery aswell

The location for footfall is very poor compared to most other restaurants, cafes and the like. The building is also freezing in winter if the heat isn't on full which for a building like that would cost a small fortune.

The Harbour does have its own microbrewery doing Howth branded beers and seems to be doing ok despite earlier teething problems.

eviltimeban

It's not just about tourists though. Locals would frequent somewhere good like that, and also coming from nearby areas. If they started doing, say, really good pizza, it would be somewhere you'd bring the kids of a weekend (just look at Da Mimmo in Strand Road - not a great location but great pizza and it does really well. People would go to it, for the pizza (or whatever).

Is that the Hope brewery? Have tired a few, they're quite nice. The address on the bottle says Dublin 5 though, so maybe they're located in Raheny.

Turtle_

eviltimeban wrote: »

It's not just about tourists though. Locals would frequent somewhere good like that, and also coming from nearby areas. If they started doing, say, really good pizza, it would be somewhere you'd bring the kids of a weekend (just look at Da Mimmo in Strand Road - not a great location but great pizza and it does really well. People would go to it, for the pizza (or whatever).

Is that the Hope brewery? Have tired a few, they're quite nice. The address on the bottle says Dublin 5 though, so maybe they're located in Raheny.

That location has never ever worked no matter how good the occupants were. It's out of the way, difficult to drive to and no parking nearby. It's madness to do the same thing over and over and keep expecting a different result. The location kills whatever business sets up in it.

And getting a reputation as a place to bring kids is a fantastic way to put off anyone without kids. Case Pasta went down that rabbit hole and went from being somewhere everyone went to somewhere I, and a lot of people I know, avoided cos it was always full of kids.

neris

Turtle_ wrote: »

Case Pasta went down that rabbit hole and went from being somewhere everyone went to somewhere I, and a lot of people I know, avoided cos it was always full of kids.

the grown ups had more fun drawing on the table cloths then the kids did in casa pasta. Their menu never changed in the best part of 20 years which didnt help

Turtle_

neris wrote: »

the grown ups had more fun drawing on the table cloths then the kids did in casa pasta. Their menu never changed in the best part of 20 years which didnt help

Yeah, the table cloths were an all-round winner... But seriously, they relentlessly advertised "kids eat free" and that sort of stuff. Very off-putting if you don't want to be surrounded by kids. Basically renders it a family only restaurant, which is just not as profitable as filling it with adults drinking half a bottle of wine per person

eviltimeban

Turtle_ wrote: »

Yeah, the table cloths were an all-round winner... But seriously, they relentlessly advertised "kids eat free" and that sort of stuff. Very off-putting if you don't want to be surrounded by kids. Basically renders it a family only restaurant, which is just not as profitable as filling it with adults drinking half a bottle of wine per person

I don't mean to that extent, and "kids" can also refer to older kids, who like a treat as much as the rest of us, and who aren't going to be tearing around the place. Believe, even those of us *with* kids can't stand those kinds of places - "hell on earth" as my better half puts it.

ongarboy

Seriously, what is the story with Starbucks flouting planning regulations with so many of the cafes they open? Howth branch now in trouble. 3 cafes in Cork and 1 in Waterford have done the same.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/council-gives-starbucks-in-howth-four-weeks-to-close-1.2788800?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fcouncil-gives-starbucks-in-howth-four-weeks-to-close-1.2788800

Hollister11

Good. It doesn't suit the area, and it doesn't do much business. If they don't abide by the regulations, I have 0 sympathy.(Except for the workers)

tricky D

However the question is can they drag the planning appeal process out for a year or two, and as is happening elsewhere in the area.

deandean

It's a calculated risk. They open quicker wuthout going through Planning, and operating profit should be more than the cost of a retro planning application / appeal.

The builder of that huge redbrick 'house' that morphed into a nursing home (IIRC) on the sea side of the road across from Fintans school tried something similar but 8 years or so later the building still seems to be empty and in planning limbo.
Maybe it'd be a good site for a Starbucks?

Mrs Shuttleworth

ongarboy wrote: »

Seriously, what is the story with Starbucks flouting planning regulations with so many of the cafes they open? Howth branch now in trouble. 3 cafes in Cork and 1 in Waterford have done the same.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/council-gives-starbucks-in-howth-four-weeks-to-close-1.2788800?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fcouncil-gives-starbucks-in-howth-four-weeks-to-close-1.2788800

Fantastic news. I used to live along that strip in the apartments next to the Waterside.

I'm not anti-globalist but my jaw dropped when I drove out and saw that gargantuan Starbucks. The shopfront, angle and size of the unit is particularly ugly for where it is located and the surrounding area. An absolute eyesore and a giant two fingers to the local businesses.

Howth Harbour is not your patch, Yanks - end of.

eviltimeban

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Fowth Harbour is not your patch, Yanks - end of.

Nationality has nothing to do with it (Il Panorama next door is owned by an Italian and an Australian) but I agree, Howth isn't a great place for a Starbucks. There's a huge Insomnia down the road which should serve the purpose of people who like a quick take away latte.

Wonder what'll go in it's place? And did I hear rumours there's a new pizza restaurant opening along that strip?

Mrs Shuttleworth

eviltimeban wrote: »

Nationality has nothing to do with it (Il Panorama next door is owned by an Italian and an Australian) but I agree, Howth isn't a great place for a Starbucks. There's a huge Insomnia down the road which should serve the purpose of people who like a quick take away latte.

Wonder what'll go in it's place? And did I hear rumours there's a new pizza restaurant opening along that strip?

Not sure about the unit itself, but at one stage within the last 18 months there were steps taken towards opening an Eddie Rockets in the old Porto Fino premises. Not sure what happened in the end.

PS - I love Il Panorama, I think you've just given me ideas for the weekend...:cool:

Harvey Normal

eviltimeban wrote: »

Nationality has nothing to do with it (Il Panorama next door is owned by an Italian and an Australian) but I agree, Howth isn't a great place for a Starbucks. There's a huge Insomnia down the road which should serve the purpose of people who like a quick take away latte.

Wonder what'll go in it's place? And did I hear rumours there's a new pizza restaurant opening along that strip?

The insomnia is a much worse building. I don't find the Starbucks that out of character, the outside facade remains the same. Insomnia is glass.

And they'll appeal and then, if unsuccessful,apply for a restaurant linence or remove some seats I suppose.

Atlantic Dawn

I presume the council will back down after a few weeks and it will remain open? The rates incoming are too much to turn down.

neris

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Not sure about the unit itself, but at one stage within the last 18 months there were steps taken towards opening an Eddie Rockets in the old Porto Fino premises. Not sure what happened in the end.

id heared that it was going to be a take away & sit down chippers originally (may have been burdocks 1st choice) but the renovation works that had been done previously were of such a bad standard it was going to cost a fortune to get it back up to a decent standard of building

tricky D

Fyi/fwiw Currently there are 2 chipper/takeaway with the correct planning in place and from talking to one of the owners and some Councillors the likelihood of another being allowed is low, very low.

Hollister11

tricky D wrote: »

Fyi/fwiw Currently there are 2 chipper/takeaway with the correct planning in place and from talking to one of the owners and some Councillors the likelihood of another being allowed is low, very low.

There's 3 even. Cafe Caira, Beshoffs and Burdocks. Then there's the Chinese

tricky D

Hollister11 wrote: »

There's 3 even. Cafe Caira, Beshoffs and Burdocks. Then there's the Chinese

True, but Burdocks doesn't have the required planning.

neris

burdocks is a chipper restaurant. they dont have a take away license but that unit theyre in was always a restaurant/cafe/greasy spoon

tricky D

Though it is operating as a takeaway as well and drawing out the planning process. Also doesn't have a grease trap.

Blade

neris wrote: »

burdocks is a chipper restaurant. they dont have a take away license but that unit theyre in was always a restaurant/cafe/greasy spoon

See below for definitions, Burdocks in Howth doesn't have planning permission for a fast food restaurant or a Take Away. Both categories require planning permission for change of use as it's current permission is for a Cafe. They got their warning letter from the Council last year and have just ignored it. Seems to be standard practice now with shops in Howth.

The conversion of a restaurant/café or part of a restaurant/café to a fast food outlet will constitute a change of use and will require planning permission.

Definition of a fast food outlet – an outlet that sells hot and cold food and drinks – packaged and wrapped and without waiter service for consumption on the premises.

A take-away – is defined as an outlet that sells hot food for consumption off the premises

neris

Blade wrote: »

See below for definitions, Burdocks in Howth doesn't have planning permission for a fast food restaurant or a Take Away. Both categories require planning permission for change of use as it's current permission is for a Cafe. They got their warning letter from the Council last year and have just ignored it. Seems to be standard practice now with shops in Howth.

The conversion of a restaurant/café or part of a restaurant/café to a fast food outlet will constitute a change of use and will require planning permission.

Definition of a fast food outlet – an outlet that sells hot and cold food and drinks – packaged and wrapped and without waiter service for consumption on the premises.

A take-away – is defined as an outlet that sells hot food for consumption off the premises

didnt realise they classed a cafe/restaurant as different from a sit down fast food outlet. id say there,ll be a few objections to either burdocks or starbucks if they ever apply for PP, however id say what theyre thinking is once theyre in long enough they can just go for some form of retention while changing use at same time

eviltimeban

Looks like that Starbucks in Howth isn't long for this world:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/application-to-keep-controversial-starbucks-shop-open-in-howth-deemed-invalid-35108533.html

The company that controls the Starbucks franchise in Ireland has had its application to retain a controversial shop in the north Dublin suburb of Howth declared invalid.

Faynon (the owners) made the application to retain the Howth shop on September 27 – just a couple of weeks after it had been given the deadline to close it. But the council has declared the retention application invalid. It stated that the address in the newspaper notice informing people where they can purchase or inspect the planning application is incorrect.

BowWow

BowWow wrote: »

I believe Minetta 2 is going into the old "Big Blue" premises beside the Abbey Graveyard.

Turtle_ wrote: »

Nice way to ensure it fails...

Hollister11 wrote: »

That really isn't a great premises. A lot of people won't even know it's there.

neris wrote: »

i dont think any things ever lasted in that premises, for the numbers of tourists in howth very few of them actually go up that way. the cock tavern did reopen recently aswell though up there as the harbour bar. not sure but it is or will be a micro brewery aswell

Update -

Minetta didn't open in this premises.
A "Tapas" restaurant called Boqueria did.
Expensive.
Closed in last few weeks...

BowWow

eviltimeban wrote: »

Looks like that Starbucks in Howth isn't long for this world:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/application-to-keep-controversial-starbucks-shop-open-in-howth-deemed-invalid-35108533.html

Still there, still one of the dirtiest Starbucks I was ever in...

neris

BowWow wrote: »

Update -

Minetta didn't open in this premises.
A "Tapas" restaurant called Boqueria did.
Expensive.
Closed in last few weeks...

not really surprising it closed, its a crap location and any business that needs footfall going in to that building is doomed from day 1. Parents went to try it one night and werent impressed by it at all. Said it was expensive and the "tapas" was mediocre

As for starbucks wonder how it will last through the winter seeing as all the foreign students will be gone home soon, they seemed to be the only who went near the place any time i passed during the summer. the locals dont even bother with it. See though theres a new bright shiny dont forget your sunglasses ice cream parlour opened in last while beside Il Panorama

BowWow

neris wrote: »

See though theres a new bright shiny dont forget your sunglasses ice cream parlour opened in last while beside Il Panorama

Have to try it yet - waiting on a Summer's day...

antimatterx

Is there something else now in the place beside the Abbey Graveyard? You would think someone would buy it and convert it into a house, as it's obvious that it will fail

tricky D

30 Church St is the name of the place.

Parking is poor as is footfall and the building is freezing in winter.

Any business opening there is going to have big challenges.