Atheists have faith

The Quadratic Equation · 16-12-2011 5:12pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Bigger mustache too. I think Hitler only gets the Godwin's because of his awesome fashion sense.

Sorry.

Yes he used lots of pre-Nazi slogans and emblems to boost his cause, still he never could hold a candle to stalin or pol pot.

The Quadratic Equation · 16-12-2011 5:14pm

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Can you give us an example of even one fact that theists can produce and verify as a fact?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

One ? Fact is every single fact there is.

Zombrex · 16-12-2011 5:16pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

One ? Fact is every single fact there is.

Er, I think he meant in relation to the belief in the supernatural claims of their religion.

The Quadratic Equation · 16-12-2011 5:17pm

Zombrex wrote: »

Er, I think he meant in relation to the belief in the supernatural claims of their religion.

Beliefs / non beliefs are not facts. Surely he knew this simple fact.

Galvasean · 16-12-2011 5:20pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Yes he used lots of pre-Nazi slogans and emblems to boost his cause, still he never could hold a candle to stalin or pol pot.

Funny how quickly Hitler got downgraded on the list of bad men when it was shown that he wasn't atheist.

Yeah, I'm Godwinning the funk out of this thread, but did it ever really stand a chance in the first place?

The Quadratic Equation · 16-12-2011 5:25pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Funny how quickly Hitler got downgraded on the list of bad men when it was shown that he wasn't atheist.

Hitler was very bad, just not as good at it as Stalin and Pol Pot.

robindch · 16-12-2011 5:25pm

Galvasean wrote: »

Funny how quickly Hitler got downgraded on the list of bad men when it was shown that he wasn't atheist.

He was a catholic, wasn't he?

The Quadratic Equation · 16-12-2011 5:29pm

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Atheists often justify their stance in their belief that GOD does not exist because there is no evidence to suggest that such a being exists and that faith isnt something they suscribe to but the thing is Atheists dont know most of the mechanisms of the scientific facts that they believe they in , they just take it on faith that what they are told is true

These guys have faith

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

The BBC also list Atheism in their religions section and list their core beliefs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/

seamus · 16-12-2011 5:31pm

Well if the BBC say it's a religion, it must be true.

Zorbas · 16-12-2011 6:02pm

I have left valuables (some gold trinkets and kugerands) at a place between 2 trees one marke R and the other S and with the GPS ref Lat: 51.5055560125 | Lng: -9.3038891468
I am testing the issue of faith and I am telling you that I am totally trustworthy in this life and in the past. If you will take this leap and check out this location (it is only 5 cm under the earth and in weather proof box) you will enjoy a good life with no worries or guilt or anything to trouble you.
Would warn that you should respect other searchers and dont accuse them of stealing what after all is not yours unless you have some inside information.
Do not be diverted from the task of finding the valuables as there will be those who claim it does not exist but just trust me it does.
Also be kind and considerate to those who dont get there on time or who have mistakenly chosen to ignore this good chance of happiness.

MagicMarker · 16-12-2011 6:10pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

These guys have faith

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

The BBC also list Athiesm in their religions section and list their core beliefs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/

What's Athiesm?

MagicMarker · 16-12-2011 6:39pm

Has anyone read his memoirs? I've considered it but it seems to get mixed reviews...

Can anyone recommend it?

Sarky · 16-12-2011 6:45pm

robindch wrote: »

He was a catholic, wasn't he?

And the current Chief Catholic was in the Hitler Youth.

The circle is now complete!
/Vader voice

iguana · 16-12-2011 6:59pm

koth wrote: »

But you're just taking someone else's word for it!! :P

He sure is. He's taking the author's word that those 10 things were scientific facts when none of them ever were. OP I think I see where you are coming from. When you read an article about 'facts' you just believe that's what you are reading, because the author said so, instead of looking up the definition of the word fact and realising the article is a load of old balls. Therefore you assume everyone else does the same. We don't. A lot of people operate by checking out the truth of what they are told and only believing what they know to be true. Don't tar everyone with your own brush.

sephir0th · 16-12-2011 7:50pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

These guys have faith

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

As soon as I saw this site a while back and cringed, I knew a bunch of idiots would post it as representative for what atheism really is. Here's a tip - break down the meaning of the word 'atheist'.

pH · 16-12-2011 7:52pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Hitler was very bad, just not as good at it as Stalin and Pol Pot.

It's nice of you to give us No1 spot with Stalin, he a bad-ass atheist and all, but Pol-Pot vs Hitler? This Christmas when you're playing "Evil Dictator" Top Trumps, you're gonna want to be holding Adolf in your hand.

Pol Pot
During his time in power he imposed a version of agrarian socialism, forcing urban dwellers to relocate to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effects of forced labour, malnutrition, poor medical care, and executions resulted in the deaths of approximately 21 percent of the Cambodian population.[5] In all, an estimated 2,000,000 to 5,000,000 people died under his leadership. He also led a ruthless and ideologically driven campaign against western culture and capitalism in Cambodia.

Hitler

Hitler's policies and orders resulted in the death of approximately 40 million people, including about 27 million in the Soviet Union.[287] The actions of Hitler, and Hitler's ideology, Nazism, are almost universally regarded as gravely immoral.[288] Historians, philosophers, and politicians have often applied the word "evil" to describe Hitler's ideology and its outcomes.

I mean it's nice of you to offer up both the top spots, but I seriously think you guys can hang on to #2 with your man for a while yet.

Galvasean · 16-12-2011 7:56pm

TBH I think Genghis Khan puts them all to shame. He managed to manage tens of millions, all of which with no guns!

pH · 16-12-2011 7:59pm

Galvasean wrote: »

TBH I think Genghis Khan puts them all to shame. He managed to manage tens of millions, all of which with no guns!

That's all well and good, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad news - was he an atheist?

Kepti · 16-12-2011 8:17pm

pH wrote: »

That's all well and good, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad news - was he an atheist?

"In addition to laws regarding family, food and army, Genghis also decreed religious freedom and supported domestic and international trade. He exempted the poor and the clergy from taxation.[25] Thus, Muslims, Buddhists and Christians from Manchuria, North China, India and Persia joined Genghis Khan long before his foreign conquests."

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire#Genghis_Khan

Dades · 16-12-2011 8:21pm

This thread promised nothing and delivered in spectacular fashion.

pH · 16-12-2011 8:22pm

That doesn't clarify much!

Genghis Khan's religion is widely speculated to have been Shamanism or Tengriism, which was very likely among nomadic Mongol-Turkic tribes of Central Asia. But he was very tolerant religiously, and interested in learning philosophical and moral lessons from other religions. To do so, he consulted Buddhist monks, Muslims, Christian missionaries, and the Taoist monk Qiu Chuji.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghengis_Khan#Religion

As you can see it's confusing.

Zorbas · 16-12-2011 8:23pm

Zorbas wrote: »

I have left valuables (some gold trinkets and kugerands) at a place between 2 trees one marke R and the other S and with the GPS ref Lat: 51.5055560125 | Lng: -9.3038891468
I am testing the issue of faith and I am telling you that I am totally trustworthy in this life and in the past. If you will take this leap and check out this location (it is only 5 cm under the earth and in weather proof box) you will enjoy a good life with no worries or guilt or anything to trouble you.
Would warn that you should respect other searchers and dont accuse them of stealing what after all is not yours unless you have some inside information.
Do not be diverted from the task of finding the valuables as there will be those who claim it does not exist but just trust me it does.
Also be kind and considerate to those who dont get there on time or who have mistakenly chosen to ignore this good chance of happiness.

Dont you guys have any faith or are you already rooting?

Sarky · 16-12-2011 8:23pm

Is massive apathy anything like faith?

iguana · 16-12-2011 8:35pm

pH wrote: »

That doesn't clarify much!

As you can see it's confusing.

I think it's a fair guess that he wasn't an atheist, though.

Galvasean · 16-12-2011 8:43pm

"he was very tolerant religiously,"

Secularist genocide! :eek:

"and interested in learning philosophical and moral lessons from other religions"

That would explain where all the murder and rape came from.

MisterEpicurus · 16-12-2011 8:53pm

Atheism 101

S = M + D(T)
R = (0)M + (0)D(T)

Where;
S = Science
M = Methodology
D = Dedication/Hard Work
T = Time
R = Religion

You can see how the equations balance out perfectly.

Hence, one is factual and reliable, and the other is unsupported piffle. Not to grasp this returns a 0% score for Atheism 101.

ShooterSF · 16-12-2011 11:04pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

These guys have faith

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

The BBC also list Atheism in their religions section and list their core beliefs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/

Sky Sports shows Professional Wrestling. Does that make it a sport?

Newsite · 17-12-2011 12:07am

Ahhhhhhh.... atheism

Sarky · 17-12-2011 12:21am

I never cease to be amazed at how religious people take something cool - jokes, comics, rock'n'roll, whatever - and manage to suck every nuance of joy and entertainment out of it in the attempt to requisition it for themselves. I mean for crying out loud religious people managed to make white rap look cool by comparison. WHITE RAP!

robindch · 17-12-2011 12:45am

pH wrote: »

It's nice of you to give us No1 spot with Stalin, he a bad-ass atheist and all, but Pol-Pot vs Hitler?

What about the christian invasions of South America which may well have killed far more people, via genocide + disease, than the usual three predictable horsemen ever managed.

I think it was Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs and Steel" which suggested that over the course of a century or so following the initial invasions, the native population of South America was reduced by an estimated 90%.

On this, Ratzinger rather bizarrely suggested in 2007 that the church hadn't imposed itself upon the natives who, in fact, had welcomed the invasion since they were "silently longing" for christianity.

strobe · 17-12-2011 1:10am

MagicMarker wrote: »

What's Athiesm?

He's been making that typo on this site for a while unfortunately. Since before September of this year, certainly. Just use a spell checker QV. Lots of browsers have one built in.

Michael Nugent · 17-12-2011 1:31am

MagicMarker wrote: »

What's Athiesm?

It’s the study of the measurement of potential athiness in an entity.

You start out with athy, then move up to athier, and the maximum is athiest.

Michael Nugent · 17-12-2011 1:44am

The OP is using a linguistic trick of shifting between speaking strictly philosophically and speaking in ordinary day-to-day language.

Speaking strictly philosophically, we cannot be certain of anything, even that we exist, and in that sense there are no facts and everything is taken with some level of faith. However, if we use this level of strictness in our language, we cannot conclude anything about anything, and it is as reasonable to believe that it is possible that we can fly unaided into the sky when approached by a speeding car, as it is to believe that the car will run into us and kill us. Or indeed, that the car exists. Or that we exist. Or whatever you are having yourself.

Speaking in ordinary day-to-day language, we (theists and atheists alike) generally accept a model of reality that corresponds broadly to what we discover by applying reason to the apparent evidence of our senses. Theists then take an extra step of excluding their religious beliefs from this test, which they otherwise apply to the rest of their day-to-day activities. They are generally happy to take their religious beliefs on faith, while applying reason to evidence when deciding whether to cross a busy road.

So we can discuss the concept of faith using either strictly philosophically language or ordinary day-to-day language, but if we skip between them in the same discussion we end up with confusion.

MrStuffins · 17-12-2011 2:01am

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Beliefs / non beliefs are not facts. Surely he knew this simple fact.

Great, so you admit you can't prove sh*t.

It took a while lads, but the religious folk might just be finally seeing how they might be wrong after all...........

Helix · 17-12-2011 2:04am

shadowcomplex wrote: »

No matter what way you try to spin it you still have to take a leap of faith that the expert telling you the scientific fact is right,you dont have to personally know the mechanisms of how the science works, you do know certain scientific facts have been disproven in recent years, where does that leave you

you dont have to believe that science is right to believe that there's no god

MrStuffins · 17-12-2011 2:10am

Helix wrote: »

you dont have to believe that science is right to believe that there's no god

A lot of theists spend their whole lives just believing stuff and presuming the rest so if someone tells them that there is an ahteist who believes in science and "worships" Richard Dawkins then to them that means al atheistsl do.

And don't try to tell them any different because once they've decided they're right, there's no going back. That's the way they live their lives, being right and everyone who disputes it being wrong and if you question it, how dare you!

Throw a good point at these people and don't expect a response of "actually, that's a good point". It's more likely to be ignored. Just like these people ignore everything else.

Helix · 17-12-2011 2:16am

i think they all miss out on the fact that they were all atheists at one point in their lives too, and it was only because of the continual repetition of something as fact to them by authority figures while they were young and naieve that they believe to begin with for the most part

MrStuffins · 17-12-2011 2:19am

Helix wrote: »

i think they all miss out on the fact that they were all atheists at one point in their lives too, and it was only because of the continual repetition of something as fact to them by authority figures while they were young and naieve that they believe to begin with for the most part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fnmhj58o0k

Sonics2k · 17-12-2011 2:27am

Newsite wrote: »

Ahhhhhhh.... atheism

ShooterSF · 17-12-2011 2:32am

Newsite wrote: »

Ahhhhhhh.... atheism

Lol you believe in Yahweh! At least I believe in Super God who created Yahweh and is the real supreme being. Any other idea is ridiculous! First there was nothing and then all of a sudden nothing turned into Yahweh?! Crazy! Obviously he needed a creator to make him; therefore Super God. QED.

MrStuffins · 17-12-2011 2:34am

ShooterSF wrote: »

Lol you believe in Yahweh! At least I believe in Super God who created Yahweh and is the real supreme being. Any other idea is ridiculous! First there was nothing and then all of a sudden nothing turned into Yahweh?! Crazy! Obviously he needed a creator to make him; therefore Super God. QED.

Lol you believe in Super God? At least believe in Super Duper God who created Super God who created Yahweh and is the real supreme being. Any other idea is ridiculous. First there was nothing and then all of a sudden nothing turned into Super God?! Crazy! Obviously he needed a creator to make him; therefore Super Duper God. QED.

amacachi · 17-12-2011 2:41am

MrStuffins wrote: »

Lol you believe in Super God? At least believe in Super Duper God who created Super God who created Yahweh and is the real supreme being. Any other idea is ridiculous. First there was nothing and then all of a sudden nothing turned into Super God?! Crazy! Obviously he needed a creator to make him; therefore Super Duper God. QED.

No, it was Goku.

Improbable · 17-12-2011 2:44am

amacachi wrote: »

No, it was Goku.

No, it was me. You may ask me any question and I shall answer, for I am the ultimate being.

Sonics2k · 17-12-2011 2:48am

Improbable wrote: »

No, it was me. You may ask me any question and I shall answer, for I am the ultimate being.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Sarky · 17-12-2011 2:49am

Improbable wrote: »

No, it was me. You may ask me any question and I shall answer, for I am the ultimate being.

So... why do men have nipples?

Improbable · 17-12-2011 2:49am

Sonics2k wrote: »

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Yes.

Improbable · 17-12-2011 2:50am

Sarky wrote: »

So... why do men have nipples?

THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT ME WITH YOUR WICKED QUESTIONS! TO HELL WITH YOU AND BURN IN ETERNAL TORMENT FOR QUESTIONING MY PLAN!

Forgive me my vengeful side. I've gotten laid now and had a son so I am much more mellow so let's give this another try. ehem.

It's because I love you.

Daftendirekt · 17-12-2011 7:43am

Improbable wrote: »

THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT ME WITH YOUR WICKED QUESTIONS! TO HELL WITH YOU AND BURN IN ETERNAL TORMENT FOR QUESTIONING MY PLAN!

Forgive me my vengeful side. I've gotten laid now and had a son so I am much more mellow so let's give this another try. ehem.

It's because I love you.

They do look nice, though.

Bundberg · 17-12-2011 7:57am

Everybody has faith

Zombrex · 17-12-2011 9:21am

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Beliefs / non beliefs are not facts. Surely he knew this simple fact.

He didn't ask for a belief, he asked for a fact

Atheists have faith

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