A question for landlords, if I may

BostonB

Graces7 wrote: »

...Maybe a part of any training etc for lls should include that?

What training? Does LL or tenant get any training of any kind? If there was who would run and pay for it?

Rachiee

the problem is some landlords spuce a place up before getting a deposit and lease then the people move in, and say for example the mold that was just painted over starts coming back again or something such as the heating, fridge or washing machine breaks and the landlord refuses to fix it,
sure the tenant could just say they wont pay rent, or they can give their notice to leave but the landlord can then withold the deposit, while legally if there is no damage to the property and you have paid your rent the landlord has no right to do this, landlords in this country are extremely rarely prosecuted, so really can and do get away with it for people on social welfare a deposit is not a cost that can be absorbed there are some rentals with really appalling conditions and nothing is being done about it.

BostonB

If people can't tell the different between somewhere thats sorted, and some where thats neglected perhaps bring someone with them who does.

BostonB

daltonmd wrote: »

I agree with you!! Although on the opposite side why doesn't the landlord make sure things are to standard before he rents it out? Why should it always fall on the tenant to point out the obvious things?

If the tenant doesn't spot it. perhaps the LL is equally clueless about it.

daltonmd

BostonB wrote: »

If the tenant doesn't spot it. perhaps the LL is equally clueless about it.

Then these aren't "obvious" problems we're talking about.

borderlinemeath

In fairness, some things may not bother some people but drive others mad.

Years ago I lived in an apartment where the washing machine door handle was broken, when I moved in the girl I was sharing with showed me how to open it with a spoon:D. It didn't bother me - it still washed my clothes just fine. Fantastic apartment otherwise.

On the flip side of this, one of my OHs tenants rang him saying the washing machine was moving when it was spinning (ie it needed levelling on it's feet). Trying to explain this to her was like rocket science so he had to go up and level it for her. She wouldn't have put up with the washing machine handle like me!

*He also redid the bathroom and replaced all the doors and doorhandles last year, not because she asked but because the bathroom needed tiling and he got a good deal on the doors and she freaked out thinking he was going to sell the house - so you can't win:D

I guess it's what you're used to as well. If you grew up in a pristine house where Dad was a diy enthusiast or broken things got fixed/or thrown out/upgraded then you would feel aggrieved if you were renting a property that had niggly little things.

However if you (like me) were a child of the 80s where there was no money to fix things let alone replace or upgrade, sometimes you tend not to see the little things as being troublesome once they function.

am i bovvered

I am a landlord, we are lucky enough to have good tenants, the standard of their home is better than our own, they pay us each month on time, so it is in all our interests to take care of the home.

Ray Palmer

I lived in each property myself. THe property has been improved since I lived there as I was aware of some of the issues from being there.

The reality is some tenants keep the places in good condition while others haven't. While I was living there I put in high quality items that would have lasted years longer than they did if it wasn't for tenants.

Having had to deal with tenants from a an early age I was never shocked to see the disregard people I knew had for property they rented. Never told people in college I had property due to the way they spoke about LL

BostonB

daltonmd wrote: »

Then these aren't "obvious" problems we're talking about.

TBH I dunno what you are talking about. You seem to be talking about the theory not the practise.

dudmis wrote: »

...door handles falling off, curtain railings barely hanging on, single glazing throughout the house - despite it having huge windows etc. ...

Seems obvious enough to me.

LL don't do these things because they don't have to. People rent the properties regardless. If everyone who viewed the place pointed out the problems and the place didn't rent the the LL would fix them. But if people are going to rent them anyway....

dudmis

I see I have started a bit of controversy!

Ok, so I agree that we were aware of the fact that the house had single glazing before we moved in - so I've no real come back there.

But, there was no way for me to know that:

• the dishwasher, cooker and dryer are useless, and while they work, they are not good quality,
• the drain for the shower is in fact designed for a sink and therefore the shower basin fills to the brim each time you have a shower,
• there are too many toilets in the house, so the water flow to them all is rubbish,

the list goes on and on. Also, these type of snags will not be fixed by most LLs as everything still works - just not very well.

Also, I was looking for 4 months for a four bedroom with garden to come up for rent in the area, so there was not much choice to be had.

amdublin

The utilities work. Yet they are useless.

What brand are they? I am sure not a "quality" brand if they are not of good quality? Again, this is something you could have seen when viewing and it was your choice to rent.

Do you want a toilet removed or something? What will fix this problem for you?

I agree the drain should be fixed. What has your LL said about it when you've asked them to fix it?

That you did not have much choice for a house is neither here nor there. Nothing to do with this particular property/landlord. You chose to rent the property.

Finally, when replying to this post please don't reply and say I'm "attacking you as a form of defence". Have a read over some other forums on Boards, this is the way debate and discussion goes... I'm just trying to get to the crux of your issues.

odds_on

the_syco wrote: »

I think that if you see it's sh|te, why move in? I too am very puzzled by this sort of action.


A snag list is completed before the new owner/tenant move in. Once you are in, there's nothing making the landlord/EA/agent/etc complete the snag list.

Basically there are two types of lists - the first list is of what problems you have noticed while viewing the property and before you have moved in. Then there is a snag list of things you don't spot from viewing but only find out after using an appliance or trying to do something like open a window which won't open, or finding that the shower or toilet are not working properly. Never ever just accept a landlord's word that he will fix something.
In either case it is always preferable to have these problems in writing and give the landlord "a reasonable time" (usually 7 - 14 days) to have the problem rectified. This puts a limit on the time that a landlord can take to fix the problem. After which, he is liable to be in breach of the landlord's obligations. This would entitle you to leave the property should the tenant so desire and retain his full deposit.

When advising the landlord (or his agent) of a problem, by all means discuss the matter with him during a phone call or text message. But, always follow up with a dated written letter, specifying the problem and specifying your acceptable time to get the problem fixed. Again, always keep a copy as if there is a claim with the PRTB, you will have written evidence of your request and "the reasonable time" for the landlord to fix it.

If, for example, the landlord has to wait for spare parts (over which he has no control) then he may realistically go over the "reasonable time" in effecting repairs. "A reasonable time" must always allow for such eventualities.

BostonB

I think if first impressions are bad it usually doesn't get better.

But I agree with the comments above. If people put things in writing its hard to ignore and if it is then you've proof which is what you need to break out of the lease. People seem to avoid tackling issues by sending emails, and txts. Thats fine if someone responds to that, but if they don't go the traditional way of a letter.

dudmis

amdublin wrote: »

You chose to rent the property.

I know that I have the ultimate responsibility as to where I live. I also know that if I kick up enough fuss, I could get all the repairs etc done - my LL is actually quite responsive.

I, however, have a life and I have chosen to live that rather than spend my days waiting for repairmen that don't turn up.

My response to the OP was simply to say that people's threshold for snags etc are different and that my LL was happy to live with all the snags in the house I now rent. If this was my own house, I would not live with those snags.

amdublin

.

dudmis

dudmis wrote: »

I wouldn't put up with this stuff in my own home, but she was quite happy to - I suppose different people have different tolerance levels.

Not sure how this got lost in translation

BostonB

dudmis wrote: »

I know that I have the ultimate responsibility as to where I live. I also know that if I kick up enough fuss, I could get all the repairs etc done - my LL is actually quite responsive.

I, however, have a life and I have chosen to live that rather than spend my days waiting for repairmen that don't turn up.

My response to the OP was simply to say that people's threshold for snags etc are different and that my LL was happy to live with all the snags in the house I now rent. If this was my own house, I would not live with those snags.

So its ok if you don't do it. But not if the LL doesn't do it. In the same house.

Thats double standards if you ask me.

dudmis

Funny that - seeing as I pay the rent.:D

BostonB

..and they the mortgage.

daltonmd

BostonB wrote: »

..and they the mortgage.

No, the landlord provides a property to rent to a tenant, that is a service. The mortgage repayment has nothing to do with the tenant.

If a tenant pays rent for a service and it's not a good service then that is a separate issue from the landlord paying the mortgage.

Ray Palmer

dudmis wrote: »

I see I have started a bit of controversy!

Ok, so I agree that we were aware of the fact that the house had single glazing before we moved in - so I've no real come back there.

But, there was no way for me to know that:

• the dishwasher, cooker and dryer are useless, and while they work, they are not good quality,
• the drain for the shower is in fact designed for a sink and therefore the shower basin fills to the brim each time you have a shower,
• there are too many toilets in the house, so the water flow to them all is rubbish,

the list goes on and on. Also, these type of snags will not be fixed by most LLs as everything still works - just not very well.

Also, I was looking for 4 months for a four bedroom with garden to come up for rent in the area, so there was not much choice to be had.

Now I am not a plumbing expert but know a bit about it.
1) The number of toilets wouldn't effect the pressure nor feed as grvity determines that
2) Putting a sink drain in a shower is actually pretty difficult as they are different sizes

As for the appliances they are working you want top quality you pay top rent. A dishwasher is a luxury and as it is a house I gather you will have a garden or somewhere to dry your clothes outside so the dryer is a luxy too. The majority of cheaper appliances are built on the same production lines with the same component parts just different shells.

The majority of LL from experience know not to put high quality items in a rented place. Bought 3 washing machines 2 for rentals and 1 for myself. Amazingly I have had to replace the machines in the rentals twice each while the one at home still works fine and never broke down.

It is actually quite upsetting to get a place to a very high standard and come back 6 months later to see general damage which is often made worse by no attempts to repair it. Just becasue somebody is a tenant doesn't mean they ignore general maintenace.

THe rule is very simple you wnat top quality you pay top price. Just becasue you feel rent is high anyway doesn't mean you get top quality it is relative. If your rental payments are close to RA you aren't paying top price so expect to get low quality. Poeple expect to get M&S for the price of Aldi need to cop on. AS for a LL not providing the same as their homes do you think the directors of Aldi buy their stuff for christmas dinner? You need a reality check.

daltonmd

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Now I am not a plumbing expert but know a bit about it.
1) The number of toilets wouldn't effect the pressure nor feed as grvity determines that
2) Putting a sink drain in a shower is actually pretty difficult as they are different sizes

As for the appliances they are working you want top quality you pay top rent. A dishwasher is a luxury and as it is a house I gather you will have a garden or somewhere to dry your clothes outside so the dryer is a luxy too. The majority of cheaper appliances are built on the same production lines with the same component parts just different shells.

The majority of LL from experience know not to put high quality items in a rented place. Bought 3 washing machines 2 for rentals and 1 for myself. Amazingly I have had to replace the machines in the rentals twice each while the one at home still works fine and never broke down.

It is actually quite upsetting to get a place to a very high standard and come back 6 months later to see general damage which is often made worse by no attempts to repair it. Just becasue somebody is a tenant doesn't mean they ignore general maintenace.

THe rule is very simple you wnat top quality you pay top price. Just becasue you feel rent is high anyway doesn't mean you get top quality it is relative. If your rental payments are close to RA you aren't paying top price so expect to get low quality. Poeple expect to get M&S for the price of Aldi need to cop on. AS for a LL not providing the same as their homes do you think the directors of Aldi buy their stuff for christmas dinner? You need a reality check.

Ray, it is clear that you have experienced difficulty with tenants regarding appliances and the like, but to say that the price of a rental should be based on the quality of the appliances is completely wrong, but this is where the rental market in this country is flawed.

Firstly, in other countries where I lived, renting was not seen as transient as it was in Ireland, it's no longer a stop gap as a lot of people are renting now due to many issues regarding the housing market, will be years in the property.

Renting in parts of the world, Germany for example is seen as a perfectly acceptable way of life. Property for long term rental is always unfurnished, without even a kitchen, for those who are on SW then they will give help for the person, but for private renters you buy your own appliances and furnishings which you take with you from property to property.

On moving in you will be presented with a paid invoice from a reputable painting and cleaning company showing that the property was cleaned, painted and suitable for a new tenant. On leaving the property you would be expected to use that company for the same work, meaning that you can do what you want as long as you leave it how you found it.

Your deposit goes to a third party - who inspect the property when you leave.

When I moved here I was shocked as the low standard of property for rent (this was just before the boom), I was shocked to be refused property because I had children, when they were accepted I was shocked at "no pet clauses".

Landlords seem to think that renters children behave differently to owners children, that our pets are also different - I can't tell you the amount of landlords who refuse to rent property unfurnished but then lay down these rules regarding "their" property and appliances.

You mention the issues with the appliances but you fail to mention that you can write these off on your tax, or am I incorrect in that?

dudmis

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Now I am not a plumbing expert but know a bit about it.
1) The number of toilets wouldn't effect the pressure nor feed as grvity determines that
2) Putting a sink drain in a shower is actually pretty difficult as they are different sizes

I have no idea why the problems are there but this is what the LL's handyman told me.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

THe rule is very simple you wnat top quality you pay top price. Just becasue you feel rent is high anyway doesn't mean you get top quality it is relative. If your rental payments are close to RA you aren't paying top price so expect to get low quality. Poeple expect to get M&S for the price of Aldi need to cop on. AS for a LL not providing the same as their homes do you think the directors of Aldi buy their stuff for christmas dinner? You need a reality check.

I pay $1500 pm - I think that would warrant pretty good service.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Now I am not a plumbing expert...Poeple expect to get M&S for the price of Aldi need to cop on. ...You need a reality check.

I see you are not too skilled in the area of diplomacy either.

amdublin

dudmis wrote: »

I have no idea why the problems are there but this is what the LL's handyman told me.




I pay $1500 pm - I think that would warrant pretty good service.


I see you are not too skilled in the area of diplomacy either.

You pay €1500 :eek: How much is the RA?? That house must be tvery expensive for someone without RA?

dudmis

I assume you mean rent allowance? Don't get rent allowance.

amdublin

dudmis wrote: »

I assume you mean rent allowance? Don't get rent allowance.

Apologies mixed you up with different poster dudmis

Ray Palmer

dudmis wrote: »

I see you are not too skilled in the area of diplomacy either.

You need a reality check, diplomacy is for people who talk in a diplomatic manner which you didn't.
If you check with an actual plumber you'll find the handyman may have not been talking with any knowledge. To put a sink drain in a shower wouldn't seem possible to me and if it was it would take about 20 minutes to fix and cost about €7 in fittings.
You aren't paying enough for high end appliances and services. You are paying enough for decent services which you are getting. A slow filling toilet cistern is not anything I would listen to, what does it take 5 minutes instead of 3? As for the appliances what are you not happy about? A dryer is such a simple machine there isn't much that a an expensive one does that a cheap one doesn't. A washin machine pretty much relies on the detergent and dishwasthers are similar.

Just becasue your rent is a lot of money doesn't mean it is enough for high quality service. Like hotels rent is more determined by location and then by services. A 3 star hotel in Paris is really expensive but 5 stars in Vegas is cheap.

dudmis

This discussion is starting to suck the life out of me.

Again, my original point was that what some people find acceptable in the way of rented accommodation, others may not.

Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it.:D

BostonB

daltonmd wrote: »

No, the landlord provides a property to rent to a tenant, that is a service. The mortgage repayment has nothing to do with the tenant.

If a tenant pays rent for a service and it's not a good service then that is a separate issue from the landlord paying the mortgage.

I took the comment to mean he can choose to ignore problems, dictate his lifestyle as hes paying the rent. My comment was ditto the landlord can do the same when they were living there also.

You're talking about something entirely different. That the LL has to fix things to a higher standard if they are renting the place out. In theory that is true. However if people rent it in the condition its in, then the LL has no incentive to improve it at all. Since the point of renting a place out is to make as much profit and reduce any costs you can. Its simply supply and demand. The tenant chooses the standard they want, and the LL choose the standard they want to provide.

daltonmd

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You need a reality check, diplomacy is for people who talk in a diplomatic manner which you didn't.
If you check with an actual plumber you'll find the handyman may have not been talking with any knowledge. To put a sink drain in a shower wouldn't seem possible to me and if it was it would take about 20 minutes to fix and cost about €7 in fittings.
You aren't paying enough for high end appliances and services. You are paying enough for decent services which you are getting. A slow filling toilet cistern is not anything I would listen to, what does it take 5 minutes instead of 3? As for the appliances what are you not happy about? A dryer is such a simple machine there isn't much that a an expensive one does that a cheap one doesn't. A washin machine pretty much relies on the detergent and dishwasthers are similar.

Just becasue your rent is a lot of money doesn't mean it is enough for high quality service. Like hotels rent is more determined by location and then by services. A 3 star hotel in Paris is really expensive but 5 stars in Vegas is cheap.

Your reasoning is flawed. Let me put it to you this way. 2 houses side by side one for sale for 300k and one for 200k - the more expensive one boasts "sandstone floors, brand new kitchen, expensive tiles" etc and the 200k has tiled floors, oldish kitchen and normal tiles - now anyone looking would say "what could I do in the 200k house for 100k"

You rent a property, not appliances. To suggest that a tenant should pay a higher rent for high end appliances is ludicrous but it shows your reasoning.

The tenant didn't choose your high end appliances, you did and that's your problem. Not the tenants.