Army Ranger Wing

discus

Yixian wrote: »

No offense, but have you ever met a bunch of British Army recruits?

I seriously doubt you have... But feel free to join up.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

Why not ? Civilian Dr's and male nurses have joined both 21 and 23 TA SAS units in the UK and gone on to serve in Afghianistan as SAS combat medics. The training and selection takes about a yr. In fact one was KIA a couple of yrs ago

If civilians can do with UK special forces, whos selection and training and operations are far more demanding, why should they not be able to do so with the ARW?

Just came across this now. 21 / 23 SAS training would be nowhere near as tough as Ranger Wing selection. They (21/22) are Tier 2 special forces, part time.
Although they're good they're not in the same league as a fully professional special force.

ArtyBoy

slum dog wrote: »

op don't listen to half the posts on here. from what i gather, they're just a bunch of begrudging bastards.

the arw isn't that hard to get into. think about it op, it isn't much of a 'special forces' unit if half the guys signing up only have peace keeping experience. peace keeping is no comparison to full on combat experience and the likes you meet in the irish army are dopes who troll forums and say that the arw are the best special forces in the world :rolleyes:

if your serious about joining special forces join the royal marines or french foreign legion to give you that extra edge



am yes you can. 25% of officers in the legion are foreign. you apply to become an officer in the legion if you have a degree, have 2 years experience, fluent french, and are under 30

if you don't have a degree, you can still become one but you need to be there longer

You are totally clueless, Royal Marine Commando's are not special forces, neither are the FFL. The FFL don't even have a tier 1 special forces unit within their whole formation.

10% of the officers in the Legion are foreign, 25% of the NCO's in the Legion are former Legionnaires. As I said, clueless!

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Just came across this now. 21 / 23 SAS training would be nowhere near as tough as Ranger Wing selection. They (21/22) are Tier 2 special forces, part time.
Although they're good they're not in the same league as a fully professional special force.

Yeah, maybe they should gain more military experience by protecting CIT vans and taking hikers off mountains in Ireland rather then serving in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 13 years.

Simple reality is even the average 18 yr old infantryman whos served a tour in Afghanistan has more combat experience then the Wing in its total history.

TA SAS are mainly ex regulars, lots of ex Paras, they do the same selection tests as the regular SAS, when the ARW do a solo 40 mile night navigation test fully loaded and jungle phase as part of selection, let me know.



You obviously dont know the definition of Tier 1 Special forces.

Tier 1 includes everything from counter terrorism to Special reconnaissance, not just black ops.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

Yeah, maybe they should gain more military experience by protecting CIT vans and taking hikers off mountains in Ireland rather then serving in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 13 years.

TA SAS are mainly ex regulars, lots of ex Paras, they do the same selection tests as the regular SAS, when the ARW do a solo 40 mile night navigation test fully loaded and jungle phase as part of selection, let me know.

Again demonstrating your ignorance, 21/23 SAS do not do the same selection as 22 SAS. The fact you say that shows that you have no clue about them.

21/23 SAS do 'selection' over a period of weekends with weekly breaks in between. I dare you to tell a 22 SAS operative that 21/23 selection is the same as the selection for 22 SAS, chances are they would laugh at your ignorance or knock you out or both.

Do you know what is involved in ARW selection? Or the 6 month continuation training? I would love to hear of your first hand experience of selection.

Do you stand by your claim that Royal marine commando's and FFL are special forces?

Do yourself a favour and stop digging.

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

You are totally clueless, Royal Marine Commando's are not special forces, neither are the FFL. The FFL don't even have a tier 1 special forces unit within their whole formation.

10% of the officers in the Legion are foreign, 25% of the NCO's in the Legion are former Legionnaires. As I said, clueless!

URH (Unite de Recherche Humaine) Of 2 REP fit the definition of Tier 1.

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Again demonstrating your ignorance, 21/23 SAS do not do the same selection as 22 SAS. The fact you say that shows that you have no clue about them.

21/23 SAS do 'selection' over a period of weekends with weekly breaks in between. I dare you to tell a 22 SAS operative that 21/23 selection is the same as the selection for 22 SAS, chances are they would laugh at your ignorance or knock you out or both.

Do you know what is involved in ARW selection? Or the 6 month continuation training? I would love to hear of your first hand experience of selection.

Do you stand by your claim that Royal marine commando's and FFL are special forces?

Do yourself a favour and stop digging.

Doubt it, I have drank at the SFC club in Knightsbridge.

Where did I say RMs or FFL were special forces, you are mixing me up. Nor did I say TA SAS was the same model as that done by the regulars. But they do the same selection tests just like 4 Para TA and the RM reserve.




Units linked to them are ie the SBS and above are classed as Tier 1.

We can all brag on the net about experiences, no point if they cant be verified.

Your claim the ARW are a more professional unit then 21/23 SAS is laughable, they have no combat experience.

Until they do its all hotair.

On paper the ARW selection tests look pretty mild compared to those done for winged dagger.

The end of TA SAS selection is over 4 weeks its a series of longer and fully loaded marches, the last two solo, candidates carry 85lbs of kit in total, you are told map grid references once, at checkpoints which you have to remember.......different ballgame then group marches.

The vast majority of TA SAS are ex regulars.



When the Wing do this on selection, let me know.

The Long Drag is a slang term which refers to an event that marks the culmination of the Fitness and Navigation phase of UK Special Forces Selection and the Pathfinder Platoon cadre[citation needed]. The event, also known simply as Endurance, involves a 64 kilometre (40 mile) long distance march over the Brecon Beacons of Wales. Candidates shoulder a Bergen backpack that weighs 25 kilogrammes (not including water, food and rifle) and they must complete the route in less than twenty hours. Candidates are prohibited from using established trails and all navigation must be performed by map, compass and memorised grid references. The event is especially demanding because it comes at the end of an intense four weeks of marches and runs.[1]



TA SAS also have a close Protection role.

" Some SAS Reservists were reported to be carrying out close protection duties for Foreign Office personnel in Kabul, Afghanistan's capital city."

In the 1991 Gulf War, members of SAS(R) were used as battlefield casualty replacements for deployed 22 SAS units, namely landrover fighting columns from A and D Squadrons who were operating in the Iraqi Desert.

SAS Reservists deployed to the Balkans in the mid-90s. Members from 21 and 23 SAS formed a composite unit known as 'V Squadron' and were engaged in peace support operations.

In 2003, it was reported that 21 and 23 SAS had been operating in Afghanistan where they have carried out long range reconnaissance operations(1).

iceage

Lads, it's Friday night...The last 5 posts have just made me spill my beer all over my keyboard :-/ Please for the love of christ stop talking utter bollix and do one would you..


Opps 6 posts... still laughing.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

URH (Unite de Recherche Humaine) Of 2 REP fit the definition of Tier 1.

No.
The tier 1 special forces unit of the French Army is 1 RPIMa.
There are other special forces units within the French Navy but 1 RPIMa is the number 1.

The Group Commando Parachutist and the Group Commando Montaigne are not Special Forces but more like elite infantry.

Nice the way you totally dodged all the other refutations of the twaddle you typed. Anyway, you seem like just another walter mitty clueless wannabe, but I could be wrong, feel free to correct me. My work here is done.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

Where did I say RMs or FFL were special forces, you are mixing me up.

Units linked to them are ie the SBS and above.

We can all brag on the net about experiences, no point if they cant be verified.

Your claim the ARW are a more professional unit then 21/23 SAS is laughable, they have no combat experience.

Until they do its all hotair.

On paper the ARW selection tests look pretty mild compared to those done for winged dagger.

The end of TA SAS selection is over 4 weeks its a series of longer and fully loaded marches, the last two solo, candidates carry 85lbs of kit in total, you are told map grid references once, at checkpoints which you have to remember.......different ballgame then group marches.

The vast majority of TA SAS are ex regulars.



When the Wing do this on selection, let me know.

The Long Drag is a slang term which refers to an event that marks the culmination of the Fitness and Navigation phase of UK Special Forces Selection and the Pathfinder Platoon cadre[citation needed]. The event, also known simply as Endurance, involves a 64 kilometre (40 mile) long distance march over the Brecon Beacons of Wales. Candidates shoulder a Bergen backpack that weighs 25 kilogrammes (not including water, food and rifle) and they must complete the route in less than twenty hours. Candidates are prohibited from using established trails and all navigation must be performed by map, compass and memorised grid references. The event is especially demanding because it comes at the end of an intense four weeks of marches and runs.[1]

Okay Walter, have a good Friday and don't get too excited while pretending to be SF on Call of Duty.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

Yeah, maybe they should gain more military experience by protecting CIT vans and taking hikers off mountains in Ireland rather then serving in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 13 years.

Simple reality is even the average 18 yr old infantryman whos served a tour in Afghanistan has more combat experience then the Wing in its total history.

TA SAS are mainly ex regulars, lots of ex Paras, they do the same selection tests as the regular SAS, when the ARW do a solo 40 mile night navigation test fully loaded and jungle phase as part of selection, let me know.



You obviously dont know the definition of Tier 1 Special forces.

Tier 1 includes everything from counter terrorism to Special reconnaissance, not just black ops.

Are you purposely trying to be funny?
Are you saying 21 / 23 SAS are tier 1 special forces?

ArtyBoy

iceage wrote: »

Lads, it's Friday night...The last 5 posts have just made me spill my beer all over my keyboard :-/ Please for the love of christ stop talking utter bollix and do one would you..


Opps 6 posts... still laughing.

Which post of mine is 'utter bollix' ?

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Are you purposely trying to be funny?
Are you saying 21 / 23 SAS are tier 1 special forces?

Look up the definition of Tier 1.

Its not just black ops.




They are tasked with "special missions", sometimes referring to unconventional warfare, counter-terrorist activities, direct action, Special reconnaissance, and/or black operations.[1]



TA SAS do the above. Black ops we dont know.

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Which post of mine is 'utter bollix' ?

Your posts are inaccurate.

Gatling

Somebody call Chuck Norris and let him sort this out.

Too much caffeine and Cod

And I'm no expert

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

Look up the definition of Tier 1.

Its not just black ops.




They are tasked with "special missions", sometimes referring to unconventional warfare, counter-terrorist activities, direct action, Special reconnaissance, and/or black operations.[1]



TA SAS do the above. Black ops we dont know.

It's not up for discussion pal, it's a matter of facts and you're wrong.

TA SAS act in a supporting role to 22 SAS, they are not tier 1.
They are not first into battle and only L detachment operate within 22 SAS.
In short you are wrong. A simple Google search will clear it all up for you.

TA SAS selection involves weekend selection every 2 weeks, then an escape an evasion exercise, it is nowhere near as hard as 22 SAS selection, if it was most of the TA SAS would be able to pass 22 selection but most who attempt it fail.

note: 22 SAS and the SBS are sometimes termed 'Tier 1' special forces, due to fact they are the units usually tasked with direct action. The SRR, SFSG, 18 (UKSF) signals etc are 'Tier 2', as they fulfill a supporting role for the 2 Tier 1 units. 21 SAS, 23 SAS, SBS(R) and 63 (SAS) Signals are collectively termed UKSF(R) in some Ministry Of Defence (MoD) publications.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/uksf/

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

It's not up for discussion pal, it's a matter of facts and you're wrong.

TA SAS act in a supporting role to 22 SAS, they are not tier 1.
They are not first into battle and only L detachment operate within 22 SAS.
In short you are wrong. A simple Google search will clear it all up for you.

TA SAS selection involves weekend selection every 2 weeks, then an escape an evasion exercise, it is nowhere near as hard as 22 SAS selection, if it was most of the TA SAS would be able to pass 22 selection but most who attempt it fail.

note: 22 SAS and the SBS are sometimes termed 'Tier 1' special forces, due to fact they are the units usually tasked with direct action. The SRR, SFSG, 18 (UKSF) signals etc are 'Tier 2', as they fulfill a supporting role for the 2 Tier 1 units. 21 SAS, 23 SAS, SBS(R) and 63 (SAS) Signals are collectively termed UKSF(R) in some Ministry Of Defence (MoD) publications.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/uksf/

You don't understand the definition of what Tier 1 Means, either does whoever wrote that website. Your info is inaccurate on all levels.

21/23 dont just act in a support role to 22 SAS. L deatchment is 22 SAS reserve, made of ex members.

As for 22 SAS its the same selection tests, they do selection tests alongside 21/23 SAS. Brecon phase 1 has the same E and E test.

Infact working in a civilian job and trying to pass selection over 12 months could be argued to be more demanding, then being able to train for it on a full time basis.

Only 2% of civilians with no military experience who attempt it pass it.





I have it on good authority 4 Para is going to be merged with 21/23 SAS in the coming years to create a super TA battalion to support 16 AAbde.




Anyway cant be bothered with this, lifes to short.

discus

Embarrassing thread

Jawgap

Special Operations Forces are differentiated from one another on the basis of an holistic assessment of the quality and the scope of their capabilities as a force, not on the individual qualities on the soldier or operator.......or on the basis of their selection tests.

The boy scouts could introduce 40km full gear night matches, it wouldn't make them Tier 1.

Capability is a function of power projection, command & control, flexibility, tactical capability, and availability of specialist support.

I don't know much about the ARW, but individually, soldier-on-soldier, I don't doubt they would stack up against the best, but given the country doesn't have, (because it doesn't need) a strategic lift capacity either by air or sea and lacks the capacity to independently support a force abroad, they are not Tier 1.

Saying that it doesn't matter - the ARW, I reckon, is comparable to the Canadian JTF2 - not Tier 1, but Tier 1-capable - meaning it can, with minimum training, integrate into a variety of roles in a Tier 1 grouping.

The Canadians followed this model because they recognised that they'd be re-inventing the wheel if they developed an all up Tier 1 force given that their two closest allies (the US & UK) already had Tier 1 groupings. It was better to develop a force that could integrate would either of these, which itself provided a significant challenge as both operate different forms of command and control - decentralised -v- centralised.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

You don't understand the definition of what Tier 1 Means, either does whoever wrote that website. Your info is inaccurate on all levels.

21/23 dont just act in a support role to 22 SAS. L deatchment is 22 SAS reserve, made of ex members.

As for 22 SAS its the same selection tests, they do selection tests alongside 21/23 SAS. Brecon phase 1 has the same E and E test.

Infact working in a civilian job and trying to pass selection over 12 months could be argued to be more demanding, then being able to train for it on a full time basis.

Only 2% of civilians with no military experience who attempt it pass it.





I have it on good authority 4 Para is going to be merged with 21/23 SAS in the coming years to create a super TA battalion to support 16 AAbde.




Anyway cant be bothered with this, lifes to short.

L detachment is made up of ex 22 sas, that's the only reason they integrate (rarely) with 22 SAS.

Again you show that you are clueless on the subject.
You are talking nonsense, now you're trying to say 21/23 SAS selection is harder than 22 SAS selection? That is laughable and on that note I relaise I'm wasting my time talking to someone who is totally clueless on this subject.

aloyisious

@Yixian: I reckon you probably already get the idea that the Med Corp would probably prefer to utilize a Med Doctor at home, rather than abroad, as you'd be a specialist, instead of on the ground in freefire zones abroad where you'ld likely have to shoot, wound or kill (or be killed) before you got a chance to practice your non-military skills without recourse to MAP's or hospital facilities.. I'd imagine the rangers have their own personnel trained for dealing with battlefield wounds in the field.

You'ld likely have to be prepared to live/reside within the Curragh Camp area on an "on-call basis" 24-7 as well for an indefinite period of time (years maybe) if you did get "invited" into the ARW after completed it's training schedule to it's satisfaction. That would be after any "officer-training" you got at the Military College, as you'd be made a Commissioned Officer, due to your medical qualifications position within the Med Corp.

With the above strictures in mind, best of luck to you if you choose to apply.

amurph0

cruasder777 wrote: »

On paper the ARW selection tests look pretty mild compared to those done for winged dagger

It's excalibur covered in fire, not a winged dagger.

Jawgap

amurph0 wrote: »

It's excalibur covered in fire, not a winged dagger.

That's a later interpretation - when the insignia were originally conceived the sword was the sword of Damocles - it represented retribution. Jock Lewis, one of the original volunteers who Stirling gathered, designed it.

The choice of two-tone blue was down to Lewis, an Oxford rower and Langton a Cambridge rower.

Stirling didn't bother getting GHQ to approve the establishment of insignia he just got Ritchie as C-in-C to approve it! Which, I suppose, fits with the ethos of the regiment!

Manic Moran

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Okay Walter, have a good Friday and don't get too excited while pretending to be SF on Call of Duty.

[Mod]If you're going to attack the poster and not the post, which is already counter to the rules, at least get the terminology right. A Walter is someone who claims to be what they're not. Infraction[/mod]

This discussion is delving into 'he said, she said'. I'd like to see a little more linking to source documents from both sides and a little less 'this is the way it is because I say so'

ArtyBoy

Manic Moran wrote: »

[Mod]If you're going to attack the poster and not the post, which is already counter to the rules, at least get the terminology right. A Walter is someone who claims to be what they're not. Infraction[/mod]

This discussion is delving into 'he said, she said'. I'd like to see a little more linking to source documents from both sides and a little less 'this is the way it is because I say so'

I linked to a credible source. It's hyper sensitivity such as that demonstrated by you here that has given boards.ie such a bad name.

He implied that the FFL and royal marines were special forces then went on to imply TA SAS selection might be harder than 22 SAS selection.
All of which are 'Walterish' claims
A 'walter' is anyone who tries to portray themselves as being something they're not or someone who tries to portray the image that they know something others don't particularly on military matters. It was an accurate statement.

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

I linked to a credible source. It's hyper sensitivity such as that demonstrated by you here that has given boards.ie such a bad name.

He implied that the FFL and royal marines were special forces then went on to imply TA SAS selection might be harder than 22 SAS selection.
All of which are 'Walterish' claims
A 'walter' is anyone who tries to portray themselves as being something they're not or someone who tries to portray the image that they know something others don't particularly on military matters. It was an accurate statement.

Stop telling lies I did no such thing......Quote?

SplitCartridge

Ah the ol' crusader kid is up to his old tricks again. There are reasons why everyone I know in the Army slags me for keeping an eye on boards... people like you are one of those reasons.

Great banter watching this muck talk.

discus

SplitCartridge wrote: »

Ah the ol' crusader kid is up to his old tricks again. There are reasons why everyone I know in the Army slags me for keeping an eye on boards... people like you are one of those reasons.

Great banter watching this muck talk.

Take not of the [1],[2] etc as he copies and pastes everything he posts from wikipedia... Although he has deviated a few posts back to mention that he's been in the SFC (Special Forces Club) in Knightsbridge :rolleyes: Hmmm, funny that, the address is on wikipedia!

tac foley

Those who have been or still are SF do not talk about it. Glory hunters who hope to catch some of the mystique of SF 'hint' at a connection of some sort, even if it's holding open the door to the khazi as a REAL SF-er goes in or out.

As for a previous comment that the SAS Regiment is 'just another infantry regiment' that has certain skills in certain areas of military expertise, that's worth quoting on arrse.

tac

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

URH (Unite de Recherche Humaine) Of 2 REP fit the definition of Tier 1.

First of all the URH are not part of the 2 REP, the commando element of 2 REP is known as Groupe Commando Parachutiste or GCP, formally known as 'CRAP'

URH or Group Commando Montaigne are part of 2 REG,
They are a mountain recce elite infantry unit, not tier 1 special forces and are not considered to be special forces by the French.

All of the GCP/GCM groups in the FFL are known as the 'second circle' They have the ability to act in a supporting role to the French special forces such as 1 RPIMa and the various French Navy special forces.

SplitCartridge

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Category:Infamous_Walts

Lads. Try not to get risen by this young lad. Remember, he's the same lad who derailed a thread before on this site and claimed that the majority of the Irish DF have never been outside of Ireland. When he was called on his BS he simply chose to insult (poorly) the other posters and ask for evidence against his claims. It was provided to the extent that academic articles were linked in posts which backed up the claims of the other posters, centering on the fact that the Irish Defence Forces are actually statistically a very very active force. He simply chose to completely ignore this evidence, ask for more, and proceeded to insult everyone with poor and witless digs.

He's either a total Walt, or someone taking the mick (poorly).

iceage

Best laugh round here in ages, I say carry on the tosh.

discus

iceage wrote: »

Best laugh round here in ages, I say carry on the tosh.

Nah, the best laugh was when he claimed that the RAF Regiment are up there with the Royal Marines and Paras!

knucklehead6

discus wrote: »

Nah, the best laugh was when he claimed that the RAF Regiment are up there with the Royal Marines and Paras!

Lies... LIES I TELLS YA!!!

The best laughs we had around here were all to do with the (not very) much lamented Investment!!!

Manic Moran

ArtyBoy wrote: »

I linked to a credible source. It's hyper sensitivity such as that demonstrated by you here that has given boards.ie such a bad name.

The rules on ad hominem attacks are pretty straight forward. Regardless of how one defines 'walt', you broke them.

A 'walter' is anyone who tries to portray themselves as being something they're not or someone who tries to portray the image that they know something others don't particularly on military matters. It was an accurate statement.

I have never heard the second half of that definition before, and it doesn't come up on this excellent walt page.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Walt

iceage

Ahh Arrse, flashbacks to Baron Jim Shortt. One of the longest thread on the Forum I believe, revived several times.

John Mongo

Tier One? Tier Two? Are people discussing SOF unit's or the layout of Croke Park?

Jesus ****ing wept, get a grip of yourselves. A load of people who haven't served a day in any of the Unit's they're discussing having a Wikipedia war with each other. Wikipedia articles which in the case of the ARW at least, are completely wrong.

****ing hell.

Morpheus

John Mongo wrote: »

Tier One? Tier Two? Are people discussing SOF unit's or the layout of Croke Park?

think they mean this...

ArtyBoy

John Mongo wrote: »

Tier One? Tier Two? Are people discussing SOF unit's or the layout of Croke Park?

Jesus ****ing wept, get a grip of yourselves. A load of people who haven't served a day in any of the Unit's they're discussing having a Wikipedia war with each other. Wikipedia articles which in the case of the ARW at least, are completely wrong.

****ing hell.

Here Mongo,

I haven't once quoted wikipedia in any of my posts so I hope your emotional breakdown wasn't directed at me.

I'm guessing you have served in the A.R.W since you set yourself up as such an expert, in which case you should know that there is a significant difference between tier 1 and tier 2 forces, and there is also a difference between Special Forces and Special Forces capable or elite support units.

Manic Moran

Here's the odd thing.

I've been wearing Army green since 1997. I have absolutely no idea what 'Tier' I am.

I also have absolutely no idea what 'Tier' any of the SF folks I've worked with have been, either. It hasn't exactly come up in conversation, and I don't think anyone particularly cared if the opposition knew either. There's certainly no insignia on their uniform to so identify. I'm usually far more concerned about what they're capable of doing than an arbitrary (and apparently not very significant) classification.

NTM

John Mongo

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Here Mongo,

I haven't once quoted wikipedia in any of my posts so I hope your emotional breakdown wasn't directed at me.

I'm guessing you have served in the A.R.W since you set yourself up as such an expert, in which case you should know that there is a significant difference between tier 1 and tier 2 forces, and there is also a difference between Special Forces and Special Forces capable or elite support units.

Here Artyboy,

Did I say you did? One poster on here involved in the "discussion" does nothing but quote Wikipedia anytime he pops up on the board.

Nobody needs to have served in the ARW or be an expert to know that the Wikipedia article is flat out wrong.

Tier 1 has taken on a life of it's own for some wild reason, it's a term thrown around for JSOC's SMU's when it comes to splitting budgets. It's a US term which fanboy's have deemed fit to apply to SOF Unit's across the globe.

There's SOF Unit's and there's Unit's designated as being SOF Support. Anything else after that, like "Special forces capable" or anything else is just nonsense. If they're SOF, they'll be designated as so... There's no real "discussion" to be had about it.

I can't believe I've even ended up posting in this thread. Sacre bleu.

aloyisious

Here Yixian, have you reached any decision as to what you might do yet?

ArtyBoy

John Mongo wrote: »

Here Artyboy,

Did I say you did? One poster on here involved in the "discussion" does nothing but quote Wikipedia anytime he pops up on the board.

Nobody needs to have served in the ARW or be an expert to know that the Wikipedia article is flat out wrong.

Tier 1 has taken on a life of it's own for some wild reason, it's a term thrown around for JSOC's SMU's when it comes to splitting budgets. It's a US term which fanboy's have deemed fit to apply to SOF Unit's across the globe.

There's SOF Unit's and there's Unit's designated as being SOF Support. Anything else after that, like "Special forces capable" or anything else is just nonsense. If they're SOF, they'll be designated as so... There's no real "discussion" to be had about it.

I can't believe I've even ended up posting in this thread. Sacre bleu.

Fair enough but for the sake of clarity perhaps you should just name crusader as the 2013 copy and paste champion.

Almost all NATO forces have adopted the designation of tier 1 and 2. It is not just a 'fanboy' thing.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.

Both are highly trained but the roles differ between strategy and tactics, The distinction is important because many of the tier 2 forces are wrongly labeled as SF which they are not and that kind of takes away from the fact that the SF soldiers had to go through a tougher selection course and the fact they have more specialised roles.

Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment or the Groupe Commando Parachutiste / Montagne of the French Army.

Anyway my main point was directed at the person who claimed the Royal Marine commando's and the Foreign Legion were special forces, which they're obviously not.

Jawgap

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Fair enough but for the sake of clarity perhaps you should just name crusader as the 2013 copy and paste champion.

Almost all NATO forces have adopted the designation of tier 1 and 2. It is not just a 'fanboy' thing.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.

Both are highly trained but the roles differ between strategy and tactics, The distinction is important because many of the tier 2 forces are wrongly labeled as SF which they are not and that kind of takes away from the fact that the SF soldiers had to go through a tougher selection course and the fact they have more specialised roles.

Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment or the Groupe Commando Parachutiste / Montagne of the French Army.

Anyway my main point was directed at the person who claimed the Royal Marine commando's and the Foreign Legion were special forces, which they're obviously not.

Is P Company not the training / selection element of the Paras?

wildfowler94

Im sure the ARW don't disclose how much combat experience they have
And here im just going to say what most lads are thinking.... Shut up!! I highly doubt most of ye know any past or present members of the ARW and believe me they don't go around boasting about anything they do or have done. Yes it goes without saying that as a Military we don't in general have much "Combat" experience but that is a political decision not a military one.
Frankly this thread is embarrassing throwing insults and then quoting wiki:pac: lads grow up stop acting like ye know about any special force or elite unit.

RANT OVER!

ArtyBoy

Jawgap wrote: »

Is P Company not the training / selection element of the Paras?

I meant pathfinders.
Long day ;-)

ArtyBoy

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Im sure the ARW don't disclose how much combat experience they have
And here im just going to say what most lads are thinking.... Shut up!! I highly doubt most of ye know any past or present members of the ARW and believe me they don't go around boasting about anything they do or have done. Yes it goes without saying that as a Military we don't in general have much "Combat" experience but that is a political decision not a military one.
Frankly this thread is embarrassing throwing insults and then quoting wiki:pac: lads grow up stop acting like ye know about any special force or elite unit.

RANT OVER!

There's only one lad on this thread who was quoting wiki, so less of the plural.
I suppose you're in the wing as well since you set yourself up as an authority on the subject telling people what they do and don't know?

Jawgap

ArtyBoy wrote: »

I meant pathfinders.
Long day ;-)

I'm open to correction, but I think the Pathfinders and the Paras may work together, but the former are not part of, or a subset of the latter.

The Pathfinders are not drawn exclusively from the Paras.

Gatling

Teir one came about through various media outlets mainly appealing to xbox /PlayStation generations
Ohhhh look this game you can be a teir one operator awesooooome

Special forces are special forces plain and simple

Actually I've worked with several former and serving ARW members over the years one thing that would come up in conversation's
"Ordinary Joe" oh I heard the Irish army special forces do this and do that
"Former unit member" actually our special forces are actually known as "Advanced infantry" ordinary joe I knew that
"Ordinary Joe" several hours later when former unit member is off doing something "what's advanced infantry"
My reply its a bit like complicated maths if you don't already understand it you probably never will

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Fair enough but for the sake of clarity perhaps you should just name crusader as the 2013 copy and paste champion.

Almost all NATO forces have adopted the designation of tier 1 and 2. It is not just a 'fanboy' thing.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.

Both are highly trained but the roles differ between strategy and tactics, The distinction is important because many of the tier 2 forces are wrongly labeled as SF which they are not and that kind of takes away from the fact that the SF soldiers had to go through a tougher selection course and the fact they have more specialised roles.

Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment or the Groupe Commando Parachutiste / Montagne of the French Army.

Anyway my main point was directed at the person who claimed the Royal Marine commando's and the Foreign Legion were special forces, which they're obviously not.

"Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment"

..............Lol