Irish Government is set to censor the internet

The_Thing

Fcuk 'em

I'm actually disappointed that the record industry's losses aren't greater, they have been gouging their customers for years and deserve to go the way of the Dodo.

In a few years times I bet those parasites will be back strong-arming the Government again.

And anyway, in the words of John Gilmore:

The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

44leto

It is one way of getting jobs back on the high street. Pirating is closing media shops weekly. Now you can pirate books on=to the Kimble, so goodbye Easons and all the other bookshops.

I think this has to happen. I am saving a fortune pirating I have not rented a vid or bought a book in months.

upandcumming

44leto wrote: »

It is one way of getting jobs back on the high street. Pirating is closing media shops weekly. Now you can pirate books on=to the Kimble, so goodbye Easons and all the other bookshops.

I think this has to happen. I am saving a fortune pirating I have not rented a vid or bought a book in months.

It seems like you have been on here for years with crap like that...

CrazyRabbit

The problem with this law is that it can be used to block sites like Megaupload. This is a problem because whilst the site can, and is used to host pirate material, the majority of the content is perfectly legal. Many many sites would be in the same situation...designed for, and primary used for legal reasons, but with some abusing it.

And also...forums would become legally responsible for anything posted by its users, even in PM's. If it could be proven that music/movies were shared using the PM function, it could result in the forum being blocked...and that includes boards.ie.

Icyseanfitz

its just a stupid waste of time and money tbh, pirates will always find a way around restrictions placed on them....its what they do, they will use proxy servers, foreign ip addresses and many other things to do it.

the only people that will end up inconvenienced by this kind of stuff is the everyday internet user and not the pirates, as i said i stupid waste of time and money but whats new there :rolleyes:

Killer Pigeon

So? This isn't censorship. Conventionally, it's like saying "Hey guys, we're putting security at the doors in our music stores to help prevent shoplifting."

MagicSean

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

So? This isn't censorship. Conventionally, it's like saying "Hey guys, we're putting security at the doors in our music stores to help prevent shoplifting."

Have you seen the music video put together by a number of American artists against heavy handed piracy rules? I doubt you have because it had to be taken down after a certain music label made a completely false copyright claim on it. So even though they fight a losing legal battle they are still successfully censoring the video.

Caliden

Newsgroups.

No hope of ever shutting them down and are so much more reliable/faster than torrents or megaupload.

Why everyone isn't using them is mind boggling.

zenno

yeah they will try and force isp's but it cannot work here as the laws will have to be changed and in times like this it ain't going to happen anyway. also i'm sure the minister for communications is more busy with real life stuff at the moment.

it's actually a catchy tune.

Sir Oxman

Caliden wrote: »

Newsgroups.

No hope of ever shutting them down and are so much more reliable/faster than torrents or megaupload.

Why everyone isn't using them is mind boggling.

Because access is generally not free I'd guess, and it's much less well-known to the general internet user even though it's been around forever.
I'm a usenet user and wouldn't touch torrents with a bargepole.

Eircom ordered to drop three strikes by the Irish data protection watchdog.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/21/irish_isp_told_to_stop_using_3_strikes/

upandcumming

gambiaman wrote: »

Because access is generally not free I'd guess, and it's much less well-known to the general internet user even though it's been around forever.
I'm a usenet user and wouldn't touch torrents with a bargepole.

I'm a usenet user myself... just class!

44leto

upandcumming wrote: »

It seems like you have been on here for years with crap like that...

How is my comment crap, if you think about the pure economics, my post should make sense to even you.

I like my films and my books, I use to rent on average 2 films a week and I still buy a book a week. I have not rented a film in 3 months so that is about 120 euros out of extravision coffers. Now I am about to start pirating books so that is more income out of my local book shop. I am not into music so I don't pirate music. But everyone else does.

There use to be 6 vid shops within a mile from me now there is one and it was the same for music stores. That is a lot of jobs lost to pirating. So it is not a victimless crime.

MagicSean

44leto wrote: »

How is my comment crap, if you think about the pure economics, my post should make sense to even you.

I like my films and my books, I use to rent on average 2 films a week and I still buy a book a week. I have not rented a film in 3 months so that is about 120 euros out of extravision coffers. Now I am about to start pirating books so that is more income out of my local book shop. I am not into music so I don't pirate music. But everyone else does.

There use to be 6 vid shops within a mile from me now there is one and it was the same for music stores. That is a lot of jobs lost to pirating. So it is not a victimless crime.

Even without pirating these places would be disappearing as they are being replaced by digital distribution.

44leto

MagicSean wrote: »

Even without pirating these places would be disappearing as they are being replaced by digital distribution.

That is true, but that is only starting to happen now. Not in the last 3 years or so.

I ask myself what is the internet doing to our highstreets and malls. Apparently while sales figures are down on the highstreet they are way up online.

What will people do in the future, we can't all deliver parcels from online shopping warehouses. The Highstreet is a major employer which is dying a slow to now a quicker death.

CiaranC

hooradiation wrote: »

Take your time, there's no rush.

Nobody cares about what you think. We will continue to share content at will. You will never stop us. The genie is very much out of the bottle my little friend. As has happened many times before, the world will adapt. Some content distribution models will fail. This is not some kind of tragedy, it is a natural evolution.

Sir Oxman

44leto wrote: »

That is true, but that is only starting to happen now. Not in the last 3 years or so.

I ask myself what is the internet doing to our highstreets and malls. Apparently while sales figures are down on the highstreet they are way up online.

What will people do in the future, we can't all deliver parcels from online shopping warehouses. The Highstreet is a major employer which is dying a slow to now a quicker death.

Adapt?

Nothingbetter2d

D1stant wrote: »

Oh nooooo!

Enda is going to 'stand down' the Internet

he is handing over the last of our sovereignty to brussels so handing over our freedom to choose what internet websites we look at comes as no surprise

44leto

gambiaman wrote: »

Adapt?

Adapt to what is the question, is there anything to adapt to, the retail sector employs 100,000 plus people in Ireland, what will all those do.

My father is now backing the nags online, he is 80, he adapted, but what about the staff in his old bookie.

Sir Oxman

44leto wrote: »

Adapt to what is the question, is there anything to adapt to, the retail sector employs 100,000 plus people in Ireland, what will all those do.

My father is now backing the nags online, he is 80, he adapted, but what about the staff in his old bookie.

There'll always be a market for example, bookies beside a boozer.

Stores will have to adapt to the 'threat' posed by online retailers - as others have pointed out, Irish stores online presence is actually pitiful given the warning time they've had over the years.
My guess is this is all part of the process when the reset button will have to be pressed - wages, rates, electricity and very other ancillary cost to doing business in this country.

The music industry is the most obvious example of head in the sand stupidity I've seen.

The only thing that can stop money haemorraging abroad on online purchases is a very thick, ignorant government slapping a draconian tax on online buying from Ireland.
I guess this will happen then.:rolleyes:

TheReverend

44leto wrote: »

Adapt to what is the question, is there anything to adapt to, the retail sector employs 100,000 plus people in Ireland, what will all those do.

My father is now backing the nags online, he is 80, he adapted, but what about the staff in his old bookie.

Adapt or die out, thats just how it works, and you have been able to pirate books since the internet started

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qkyt1wXNlI&list=LLdzjscDMQAmN23NnQ3ZZ7LA&index=28&feature=plpp_video

Even with kindle piracy kindle books have over taken hard copy sales on amazon.

upandcumming

44leto wrote: »

That is true, but that is only starting to happen now. Not in the last 3 years or so.

I ask myself what is the internet doing to our highstreets and malls. Apparently while sales figures are down on the highstreet they are way up online.

What will people do in the future, we can't all deliver parcels from online shopping warehouses. The Highstreet is a major employer which is dying a slow to now a quicker death.

Like another poster said its time to adapt. Netflix has over 24 million subscribers. They adapted. They're getting bigger each year.

The iTunes Store was launched in 2003. Over 16 billion songs have been downloaded off it since, 1 million in the first five days in 03.

It is complete nonsense to say that it is only starting to happen now.

44leto wrote: »

Adapt to what is the question, is there anything to adapt to, the retail sector employs 100,000 plus people in Ireland, what will all those do.

You can't pirate a hot coffee in the morning.

jester77

44leto wrote: »

Adapt to what is the question, is there anything to adapt to, the retail sector employs 100,000 plus people in Ireland, what will all those do.

My father is now backing the nags online, he is 80, he adapted, but what about the staff in his old bookie.

Same as any industry adapts. Car engines 15 years ago are very different than they are today, and will be very different in 4 or 5 years once electric becomes standard. I'm pretty sure mechanics have adapated!

Shops will need bigger warehouses, people working there, they will need an IT infrastructure, different way for marketing and so on. They are a bit late starting now though as they should have already adapated.

Plankton1

The government has been slow to respond IMO. I Was at a conference with people from the TV and film industry who are facing the same threat as the music industry faced, which is slowly killing the music industry. HMV is on the verge of collapse, same with Xtravision.

We have all begun to believe we are entitled to get content online for free, and feel outraged at the thought of paying for it in a shop. If you are a carpenter and make a chair, would you feel outraged if a customer just picked it up and took it home without paying? Just because music or film is in a format that can go online, doesn't mean it's there for free.

My suggestion would be that the internet providers take responsibility. People like UPC are advertising their download speed etc. Customers don't need fast internet for sending emails. They want it to download content.
The customer pays the internet provider
The content provider gets nothing
The internet provider should pay a small percentage to the content providers every time someone using their service downloads.

TheReverend

Plankton1 wrote: »

The government has been slow to respond IMO. I Was at a conference with people from the TV and film industry who are facing the same threat as the music industry faced, which is slowly killing the music industry. HMV is on the verge of collapse, same with Xtravision.

We have all begun to believe we are entitled to get content online for free, and feel outraged at the thought of paying for it in a shop. If you are a carpenter and make a chair, would you feel outraged if a customer just picked it up and took it home without paying? Just because music or film is in a format that can go online, doesn't mean it's there for free.

My suggestion would be that the internet providers take responsibility. People like UPC are advertising their download speed etc. Customers don't need fast internet for sending emails. They want it to download content.
The customer pays the internet provider
The content provider gets nothing
The internet provider should pay a small percentage to the content providers every time someone using their service downloads.

Thats stupid, people want high speeds to stream/download from itunes, get there games from steam/origin/greenman fast, watch youtube in HD without buffering, when they buy from these content providers do get money. Its not possible for an ISP to track everything a customer does, if they try customers who know their stuff will use usenet with SSL

DeVore

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

he is handing over the last of our sovereignty to brussels so handing over our freedom to choose what internet websites we look at comes as no surprise

Actually, in this regard (the internet) I would welcome are new EU overlords. Their laws on libel and access are much better than the locals ones here. Websites are protected by the E-Commerce Directive and its not a bad piece of legislation.

DeV.

baddebt

this will never work , the internet is much bigger than the pisspoor Irish government ,

a couple of years back , Metallica and Dr.Dre tried to get something like this in place to stop illegal downloading of music "EPIC FAIL" ,

Irish gov's Attempts will = EPIC FAIL
they should concentrate their resources in punishing those pack of c0un0t's that wreckED the economy instaed of again socking it to the joe-publics ,

zenno

most judges will know about torrents anyway because their kids or teenagers will be downloading them films to watch on their divx player just like most other people. torrents are the oldest and most used tracker for downloading of anything and it wouldn't be surprising at all to know that cops and their kids as well as judges and all walks of life use the torrent so it will never be stopped it came with the dawn of the internet and will always be part of it, it is impossible to stop.

Plankton1

TheReverend wrote: »

Thats stupid, people want high speeds to stream/download from itunes, get there games from steam/origin/greenman fast, watch youtube in HD without buffering, when they buy from these content providers do get money. Its not possible for an ISP to track everything a customer does, if they try customers who know their stuff will use usenet with SSL

When people "buy" is the operative word. It's illegal downloading that the whole fuss is about
I'm saying don't criminalise the consumer because you will never be able to crack down on it
Adapt to the situation, work out a legal agreement with internet providers

As a content provider who has seen my area of work been badly hit by this, I know content providers don't get a cent for illegal downloads or streaming

Dr.Silly

number10a wrote: »

This being Ireland, it won't be designed properly anyway so it won't work unless you go to http://www.download-pirate-illegal-music.com/ or such similar blatantly obvious websites.

this link doesn't work

Blazer

Dr.Silly wrote: »

this link doesn't work

You forgot your or :rolleyes:

upandcumming

Blazer wrote: »

Dr.Silly wrote: »

this link doesn't work

You forgot your or :rolleyes:

He is Dr Silly after all!

AidySevenfold

Told my sister not to use Torrents last week.
Got a letter yesterday about the monitoring of it and it had the name and artist of the CD she downloaded on the letter.

conor.hogan.2

AidySevenfold wrote: »

Told my sister not to use Torrents last week.
Got a letter yesterday about the monitoring of it and it had the name and artist of the CD she downloaded on the letter.

What ISP, Eircom?

AidySevenfold

Yeah Eircom.

Glenbhoy

Have the authorities not thought about the downside of legislation like this? Can they not see that this will drive consumers back into the arms of the vendors of (normally shoddy) counterfeit cd's and dvd's and as we all know that will just lead to an increase in funding for terrorism or other such criminality!!!

The law of unintended consequences.

Glenbhoy

Plankton1 wrote: »

When people "buy" is the operative word. It's illegal downloading that the whole fuss is about
I'm saying don't criminalise the consumer because you will never be able to crack down on it
Adapt to the situation, work out a legal agreement with internet providers

As a content provider who has seen my area of work been badly hit by this, I know content providers don't get a cent for illegal downloads or streaming

What do you mean by the phrase as a 'content provider'?

You mentioned HMV and Xtravision as being on the verge of collapse, of course they are, their based on business models that cannot survive. They had their time, but they haven't adapted quickly enough - in the case of xtravision they didn't really even try, selling games and tv's wasn't exactly much of hedge against the inevitable.
As I've said earlier on this thread, the likes of record companies etc had it good for a while, but their time is now over, this has happened countless times over history, no firm/industry has a 'right' to survive. Pointless legislation won't/cannot safeguard these companies into the future, such protectionism cannot and never has worked. My advice to anyone in these industries is to adapt or get out.
Musicians will still make money, movie makers will still be incentivised to make movies, it's just that a large wedge in the middle (the distribution network essentially) is going to be removed.

Capt'n Midnight

pmcmahon wrote: »

It's legal to download what you've already bought.

IIRC you aren't even allowed to make a copy of media you have purchased legally in a different format. Like making MP3's from your music collection.

In fact I'm not even sure if you are legally allowed to make any backup copy at all.

Celly Smunt

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

IIRC you aren't even allowed to make a copy of media you have purchased legally in a different format. Like making MP3's from your music collection.

In fact I'm not even sure if you are legally allowed to make any backup copy at all.

I'm pretty sure you are,hence why making xbox "back ups" is legal,to sell or share your back ups is an offence.

Capt'n Midnight

dlofnep wrote: »

It is a futile exercise - you block one tracker, another will popup. And you certainly can't block a protocol like bittorrent.

Stupid move.

You can't stop the signal, Mal

digitaldr

Love this from wikipedia on the HADOPI law

Shortly after HADOPI's agency logo was presented to the public by Minister of Culture and Communication Frédéric Mitterrand, it was revealed that the logo used an unlicensed font. The font was created by typeface designer Jean François Porchez, and is owned by France Télécom. The design agency that drew the logo, Plan Créatif, admitted to using the font by mistake – although the font is available only illegally on pirate sites – and the logo was redone with another font.