Facilities

Barry.Oglesby

Hey,

With all the full time gyms up and running now (I run one here plug plug www.kyuzogym.com plug plug) I was wondering what people now think of training with respect to that.

I know of a guy who is an awesome coach in a traditional martial art who is shutting his school as of this week. He trains out of a school hall, but has been basically driven out by a full time (and far inferior) school that's about a mile away from where he coaches. People, it seems, are far more attracted to facilities than coaches.

So my questions are what would be the minimum you'd expect from a facility now, and would you prefer to train in the comfortable facility with a slightly inferior coach than in the cold old community hall with a slightly better coach.

Now I know everyone will want to be all hardcore and immediately say the better coach, but put yourself in the position of a beginner.

Barry

wingnut4

I'd much rather be somewhere thats more comfortable to be honest. I dont mind somewhere cold or anything but somewhere with good matted area and that is clean. I remember going to a place for some thai and it was awful, they had carpet on the floors and we trained in our bare feet. It was very unhygenic.

Im lucky im at a gym thats good and clean, good facilities and if cold we can all snuggle......peter is kind of cuddly (other word for chubby)

Khannie

Depends what you want out of it. If I was going to be stepping in the ring then I genuienly couldn't give a sh*t what the facilities are like once I'm getting the best coaching. In fact the general rule if you're going to a gym in Thailand is to avoid the ones with good facilities.

Having said that, if I wasn't competing and cost being the same, I'd rather be warm in the winter. Hard to put yourself in the shoes of a beginner though.

manga_10

Personally coaching is more important to me rather than facilities. As long as basic hygiene principles are covered am as happy as can be

arybvtcw0eolkf

I think I might feel different if I wasn't competitive.. Being competitive mean's I want good honest coaching.

If I wasn't competitive and just tipping away at a little BJJ (as an example) I think I'd probably go for facilities over coaching.

EnjoyChoke

Top coach, top facilities. Would be prepared to travel.

mcdermott

But if you are a beginner - you might not know that the bloke that trains in the local hall is the better coach.

It all depends on the person starting, and the level of background knowledge within that sport/art they have. Within the MMA scene its a fairly small community, and if you are on the fringes of it - you will have an idea of who is who and where stuff is. Some people dont have that knowledge, and you cant blame someone who is starting out looking at 2 places and picking the one thats kitted out better.

I dont know of the 2 places you are talking about but I would hazzard a guess that the newer one may have a website/flyers/etc and the old school community hall has survived on word of mouth and the usual heads training there for years?

EnjoyChoke

mcdermott wrote: »

But if you are a beginner - you might not know that the bloke that trains in the local hall is the better coach.

It's easy enough to look up results.
I can't think of any of Ireland's top MMA or BJJ coaches who currently teach out of the local hall, so I don't think it really applies to these.

pablohoney87

Mats, Good coach and friendly folks. A few radiators/heaters dont go a miss in this weather though

da-bres

Coaching + training partners IMO

arte suave

For beginners, first impression is everything. If you bring a group of beginners into a cold dirty hall on their first night I think very few will come back.
I think as long as the place isn't freezing though appearances can be forgiven. Having spent many nights training with no heating in the winter I absolutely hate it and have often considered staying at home instead of putting myself through the torture, and I love to train. So I'd guess that most beginners when faced with the same decision will choose the stay at home option.
The place doesn't need to look great imo just clean and reasonably warm.

Doug Cartel

Putting myself in the position of a beginner, of course a flash facility is going to be a huge factor in getting me to sign up. Any eejit can rent out space in a scout hall, but you have to be legit to have a properly equipped gym/dojo. At least that's the way I'd look at it if I was someone with just a casual interest who was maybe, possibly thinking of trying something out. Also, glossy flyers and a nice website would go a long way to reeling me in.

Hell, even now having a proper facility would be a big influence on me. I realise that this is a big assumption, but I tend to think of the guys operating out of parish halls as people who run their school as a hobby. One or two classes a week, kids mixed in with adults, with classes getting cancelled any time something minor comes up. Yes, I know it's unfair of me to tar them all with the same brush, but I can't help it - until I know more about the way they operate, it's something I'm going to worry about.

reganreggie

For me the feel of the place was always more important, if your training there for a while and the coach doesnt know your name or if you feel intimidated by tools in the place then all the facilities in the world wont help.

Niall Keane

Think alot of this is happening, and comes down to cost per class / value for money. A beginner can't really evaluate quality. Basically the choice would be pay €60 a month, and train when you like as often as you like, or pay €10 a class, that exist only on specific nights.
There was a time when quality was sought out, some still do, but everyone who has run classes places, knows there's no money in training fighters, there's too few who really want that type of training, most people nowadays seem to value convenience above all else. Martial arts is their hobby not an art to be studied / valued?
Personally I have found over the past 5+ years that the eastern european students I have make it to every class, and actually Appologies if they miss one, where as most native Irish lads of the boom generation tend to drift in and out, with no real appreciation for what they are doing. The only exceptions being lads from seriously disadvantaged areas, ie the ones who missed the boom. Personal sacrifice to acquire what you want just seems devoid in a generation of native Irish lads, everything has to be on their terms, suit their lives and be easy, or they give up, anyone else notice this?

Peetrik

mcdermott wrote: »

But if you are a beginner - you might not know that the bloke that trains in the local hall is the better coach.

+1, also a beginner might assume that the better kitted out gym is due to the coach being better.
Beginners don't know what to look for or know the differance between a legit title/belt and a b/s one.

OLDMAN1

Doug Cartel wrote: »

hall, but you have to be legit to have a properly equipped gym/dojo.

I would have to disagree with this, i know a couple of chancers that run full time gyms..

Doug Cartel

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

I would have to disagree with this, i know a couple of chancers that run full time gyms..

I'm just saying that this is the way I would look at it if I was a beginner who didn't know better.

EnjoyChoke

Niall Keane wrote: »

...most native Irish lads of the boom generation tend to drift in and out, with no real appreciation for what they are doing. The only exceptions being lads from seriously disadvantaged areas, ie the ones who missed the boom. Personal sacrifice to acquire what you want just seems devoid in a generation of native Irish lads, everything has to be on their terms, suit their lives and be easy, or they give up, anyone else notice this?

There's an outrageous stereotype right there. The majority of the most dedicated, self sacrificing, and skilled martial artists I know are "native Irish lads of the boom generation", all from "good" areas.

Barry.Oglesby

EnjoyChoke wrote: »

There's an outrageous stereotype right there. The majority of the most dedicated, self sacrificing, and skilled martial artists I know are "native Irish lads of the boom generation", all from "good" areas.

There's a certain type of thinking at the moment- it goes like this; everyone who had money or who grew up during the Celtic Tiger is spoiled and doesn't know the value of hard work etc. etc.

EnjoyChoke

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

There's a certain type of thinking at the moment- it goes like this; everyone who had money or who grew up during the Celtic Tiger is spoiled and doesn't know the value of hard work etc. etc.

The product of lazy minds.

CageWager

IMO the physical fabric of the gym itself is of little value. (Im talking about BJJ mind you, where you dont need any equipment to train)

All it really is is a room with a big mat. 99% of the value of a gym/club is in the people and expertise. Myself and the lads I train with could pitch up in any room with a mat, anywhere in the world and do the exact same thing.

Little things like, heat, fancy changing rooms etc are great, but if you really care about stuff like that would you really be the type to roll around in a pool of other people's sweat for hours on end?

rugbyman

CageWager wrote: »

Little things like, heat, fancy changing rooms etc are great, but if you really care about stuff like that would you really be the type to roll around in a pool of other people's sweat for hours on end?

Don't forget pubes, the most constant fixture of all.

must log out of fathers account...

King of Kings

a full time gym will probably have better training times - rather than the lad who is a set 2/3 times a week in a school hall.

Facilities don't matter hugely to me beyond the essentials - but the choice of class (i.e. something most nights) in a week suits a person who is quite busy.

If I knew a coach was amazing compared to another I'd go - but while I hear of amazing (over used to be honest) coaches I don't really hear of ****e coaches that stay in business along time.

the drifter

for what i train all thats needed is a mat and some good training partners. where i train provides this...

But!!! as stated above..its set class times and this can get to me at times.Plus lately since i stopped the powerlifting and found something called conditioning id like a place where i could do some of this without having to visit my main gym.

Niall Keane

Barry, Enjoychoke,
Good point, I have a number of such students. Guess there's some smoke to what I said, but not to the generalisation I made. Apologies!

yomchi

Barry did this TMA coach lose all his students to the full time place?
Is the full time place teaching the same art/sport?

This is the first time I've heard of a situation like this in Ireland where the 'Tesco effect' involves martial arts clubs.