Aritech CS350 - Alarm triggering with interior lights switching on and off

davkav

Hey guys,

Looking for a bit of help here.

I have an Aritech CS350 in my home. Its been fitted the last 15 years.

We only moved in to the house about 3 months ago so not sure if the problem I am having is an old one for the alarm system.

Basically the alarm panel is on the upstairs lighting circuit.

Sometimes when I turn off some lights down stairs and occasionally at 6.30am when I have the heat set to come on, the alarm triggers.

When it triggers the keypad says that the fault is at the front of the house. All of the lights downstairs are on a separate circuit to the one upstairs and the heating system is on its own circuit.

I was talking to an Alarm fitter there at lunch time (he just happened to be in the electrical wholesalers I called into to get some bits) and he reckons it is probably induced voltage from alarm cables crossing over or running parallel to power cables.

He also mentioned that he has seen a few of these panels (the cs350's) having this problem.

He recommended that I upgrade my panel and keypad to a HKC Securewave and that would more than likely fix the problem. National Electrical Wholesalers are doing the Panel and Keypad for €127 ex VAT.

What do you guys reckon?

altor

It is more than likely a fault with a sensor on the loop. Replacing the panel will more than likely give the same fault if there are faulty sensors on the loop.

davkav

Sorry Altor and thank you for the response.

I should have said the fault that displays is the front of the house but downstairs. The zone that triggers the alarm covers just the front two downstairs windows of the house .

So not on the alarm/upstairs lighting circuit.

altor

This is where the problem is then, more than likely one or both is faulty.

davkav

If one of the sensors is faulty how is the alarm triggering when I switch on/off the lights or the heating?

Could it simply be a bad connection to one of the contacts or shock sensors?

altor

The resistance is the sensor when the light or heating is turned on will cause the alarm to activate. Although alarm cables are not meant to be ran beside power cables in reality they are. Only a test with a multimeter will determine the fault.

davkav

Hmm, cheers Altor.

Ill check all of the sensors on the windows tonight with a multimeter and see if anything shows up. Hopefully this will save me a few bob.

Although I wouldn't mind a new alarm panel that supports wireless and GSM for future expansion. Now would be the ideal time to get it approved by the boss

Actually whilst I have you, can you get PIR Flood lights that support a secondary input to trigger the light say if the alarm triggered.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Hmm, cheers Altor.

Ill check all of the sensors on the windows tonight with a multimeter and see if anything shows up. Hopefully this will save me a few bob.

Although I wouldn't mind a new alarm panel that supports wireless and GSM for future expansion. Now would be the ideal time to get it approved by the boss

Actually whilst I have you, can you get PIR Flood lights that support a secondary input to trigger the light say if the alarm triggered.

Take the resistor out of the loop.
Set the meter on 200 ohms then tap each sensor about 10 times, if inertia/contacts fitted do the same for the contact. The reading should always return to same value. If it stays higher close off that sensor and move to the next one.
The alarm activating can trigger the lights by installing a 12V/240v relay off the external bell to the lights.

davkav

Thanks altor.

Ill give that a shot. When you say close off that sensor, do you mean short it out and check the rest of them?

Also I remember reading that the resistors should be at every sensor. Is this correct?
Mine is currently wired such that there is one resistor in series with the zone loop and located in the alarm panel.

Sorry for all of the questions, id just like to get this alarm sorted before my neighbours go banana's at me and I can sleep soundly knowing my alarm clock, I mean alarm doesn't go off at 6.30am.

altor

By closing off the sensor you are joining the alarm together, so if red and red are used for alarm you disconnect the two red from the sensor and join together.

If there is only 1 sensor on the zone then only one resistor will be used. If there is a number of sensors there will still be the same resistor in the end device, more than likely with the CS350 it will be located in the control panel.

davkav

Hi Altor,

Apologies for not replying to your post before Xmas. It was a bit hectic over the holidays.

I tested the sensors in the zones as you suggested and all of them seem to be working fine.

Do you think it is worth changing the sensors for new ones or swapping the panel for a HKC and get some wireless sensors?

There are only 4 contacts and 2 shock sensors (2 Windows) in the zone in question.

Again sorry for not replying sooner.

KoolKid

There is no point in just second guessing here. You could replace all the sensors and it may be a connection or wiring fault.
Replacing the panel & adding all wireless sensors is a bit drastic.
Try disconnecting the sensors one by one & see if you can narrow it down.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Hi Altor,

Apologies for not replying to your post before Xmas. It was a bit hectic over the holidays.

I tested the sensors in the zones as you suggested and all of them seem to be working fine.

Do you think it is worth changing the sensors for new ones or swapping the panel for a HKC and get some wireless sensors?

There are only 4 contacts and 2 shock sensors (2 Windows) in the zone in question.

Again sorry for not replying sooner.

It might be a problem with the contacts, you can get intermittent problems with sticky contacts. If you can take these out of the loop then add them in one by one to find the faulty one.

davkav

Right finally got the problem sorted. My battery in the panel was low, not low enough to register by the panel but enough to allow a dip in voltage when I was switching lights on or off.

So the battery has been replaced and all seems good.

Thanks altor and KoolKid for the help,
Dave

KoolKid

I wouldn't be100% sure of that.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

I wouldn't be100% sure of that.

Ah don't say that.... it seems fine now. I fitted the battery on Sunday evening and it hasn't triggered since.

altor

davkav wrote: »

Right finally got the problem sorted. My battery in the panel was low, not low enough to register by the panel but enough to allow a dip in voltage when I was switching lights on or off.

So the battery has been replaced and all seems good.

Thanks altor and KoolKid for the help,
Dave

Hopefully that caused the issue you where having, usually turns out to be a faulty sensor on a loop. Thanks for getting back to us.

davkav

Alrighty then......

I had nice uninterrupted sleeps all week. Since Friday my alarm has been going off randomly once armed. Previously it would trigger with the switch of a light or the heat coming on and off but now it can happen at any time. It even triggered when I unplugged my phone charger this morning, sockets aren't even on the same rail as the lights and alarm in the fuse box!!!

So tonight I will remove one of the sensors from the loop and see how I get on. I will wire it back up tomorrow and move on to the next one if the alarm still triggers.

Its getting ridiculous now and I would say the neighbours aren't too impressed.

Yes KoolKid, I know, you told me so

KoolKid

That's one way of sorting it .
Do you have a multi meter ?

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

That's one way of sorting it .
Do you have a multi meter ?

I do.

I have tested the inertia sensors on the windows and they all read 0.5 ohms and return to same when I give them a tap.

KoolKid

Connect the meter to the pair at the panel and check the entire loop.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Connect the meter to the pair at the panel and check the entire loop.

Ill try that this evening. I presume I am looking for it to be at 4.7k?

Also when I was testing the inertia sensors I noticed that only 2 wires are connected to the sensor with no resistors. The resistors are inline in the panel.
Is this the norm? I thought the sensors where meant to have 4 wires to detect the difference between tamper and trigger?

The sensor type in question:


Thanks for the help by the way. Very much appreciated.

KoolKid

Resistors should really be at the end of line.
Disconnect resistors while testing like this.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Resistors should really be at the end of line.
Disconnect resistors while testing like this.

I will test it this evening and report back.

Should the sensors be wired as per the diagram below:

KoolKid

Yes. But if there are 2 cables it would be the 2reds across the contact and the three other colours joined black to black, blue to blue and yellow to yellow.

davkav

Ok so, multimeter reads 9.4 ohms for the loop. Is this normal?

I've read that below 20 ohms is usually the norm. I will now test each sensor and see if the loop returns to the 9.4ohms every time.

KoolKid

Yes that's good. But check each sensor and contract about 10 times each.

davkav

KoolKid wrote: »

Yes that's good. But check each sensor and contract about 10 times each.

Will do.

Just to note, I don't know if its bad or not but the reading is fluctuating slightly between 9.4 and 10.5.

KoolKid

If nothing shows up then close of the sensors one by one and see if it settles down .

davkav

Before I started testing just now, the reading was up at 11.4. The heating has only been turned on in the last 30 mins. I wonder could one of the alarm cables be resting on a heating pipe somewhere and the increase in heat causing the resistance of the cable to change?

First Inertia sensor I test and it doesn't have any effect on the reading on the multimeter.
Ill take it out of the loop now and see does the loop reading stay at a steady value.

zg3409

>There are only 4 contacts and 2 shock sensors (2 Windows) in the zone in question.

I read the thread and I didn't see if you said if it alarms on "intruder shock", "intruder door open" or tamper fault.

Also if it's always the exact same zone try swapping over say zone 4 and zone 5 and see if the problem moves zone. If not then it's a panel fault. Make sure both zones are same type and configured for same sensors etc.

Also to stop annoying neighbours enable short bell timeout, delay on external bell ,set all zones as entry exit etc. It is not a good idea if your alarm is needed for insurance reasons and you are worried about break ins.

The cost of a few contacts is probably worth it. I have swapped sensors from different zones around the house to see if the problem follows the sensor. It can get confusing for intermittant faults so make a note of what was moved where.

You may also be able to decrease sensitivity for shock in the panel (this may mask electrical glitches)

Also check for cable damage and staples through the cable.

There is nothing worse than an intermittant fault. Also consider arming/part arming the alarm while you are in the house (if possible) so you can soak test it more.

You may have a zone soak test option. You may also be able to exclude that zone from arming, not ideal. There may be joins in the cable not near the zone protected (say if the cable goes via the keypad) so check sensors and junction boxes on the way for joins.