Mental Training

dev110

I want to see what way you guys train for the mental part of competition.

I know a big part of shooting is made up of mental ability and to be able to block out distractions around you.

I have found when I was doing a lot of sporting and skeet shooting during the autumn I was getting better and in the final competitions I did I got into shot off's and this is where I fell down big time as I knew I cleared the stand and could do it again but the pressure of people watching and the chance of winning got to me.

Also if I am shooting for a group with any rifle and am going for a 3 shot group after the the first 2 went in the same hole or very close I always pull the last shot as I start thinking to much about everything like trigger squeeze, hold, breathing, etc.

What do ye do to prepare/train to strengthen this part of shooting?

Sandy22

Bearing in mind reading a book will only get you so far, you may find this one useful.

http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Mind-Mental-Management-System/dp/1885221479

Sparks

There's a fair few books on this kind of thing, and not all are shooting-specific (which isn't to say the shooting-specific ones aren't excellent, With Winning in Mind was the first one I ever read and it's still useful, though perhaps it's not the best starting point anymore - it'd be the second book I'd get on the subject still though).

Mental training in shooting is pretty good, it was written by Harold Stenvaag's wife (who was a top shooter and olympic coach in her own right); Intershoot sell it but I've not seen it on amazon. It'd be the third book I'd buy I think.

Every shot must have a purpose is a golf mental game book but good nonetheless. That one would probably be number four.

If you're just starting off though, I think perhaps the best starting point I've found so far is What every rifle shooter should know FIRST about the mental game. Buy it, stick it in your car's CD player if you have one, and listen to it on the way to/from work/the range.



However, as Sandy hints at, books and tapes/cd's will only give you a starting point and a direction - you will have to train at the mental game every bit as hard as you do at the technical game. Perhaps even harder, because it's not like you can buy a doodad from MEC to fix a problem with your mental game And because you're Irish, you've got more of a hurdle than some would have, because our national psyche kindof has the sarcastic "Yeah, right" dial turned all the way up to 11

Basicly, what you've got to do is to be able to get your head to focus on the process of shooting the shot, rather than thinking about the outcome of the shot. I find that if I'm standing there on the line going through the shot routine and I find I'm thinking "If I just shoot a 95 in this string, I can hit 570 overall", then I'm stuffed and I need to put down the rifle and restart the shot routine. So I keep thinking in my head "60 well-executed shots", which does three things - it focuses my head on doing the shot routine I train with as well as I can with every shot; it blocks out the idea of having a final score as a goal by having a goal that involves the process not the score; and it reminds me that I have 60 shots to fire, so stop fecking about and get the job done (okay, that last one doesn't always work so well, but I'm still learning ).

As to blocking out distractions, other than decent earplugs, I don't worry about blocking them out much. If I'm focussed on the task, my head just ignores them by default, whereas if I try to block them out, then it's like trying not to think of an elephant. I've even given up on using side blinders at this point (but that's not advice, it's certainly not what everyone does at higher levels then me, it seems that some do and some don't and you find what works for you by experimenting).

You will have to pay some attention to your match preparation though. What do you do for the last hour before a match? Do you get to the range in plenty of time, stick the ear defenders (or some headphones for music) on and go get into your mental bubble where you're just concentrating on the match? Do you spend time dry-firing or mounting the gun a few times to get your specific muscles warmed up? Do you do some stretching a few hours before the match (rather than five minutes before it)? Do you mentally visualise your shot routine and your match plan before the match so that when you do shoot the match, you're not being surprised by the match, but just doing the job as the match unfolds the way you were expecting it would?

dev110

I said while I will was going to be starting from scratch with competition shooting (FTR) I should build on all the basics from the beginning so it will save time and effort to learn something new or change something that I have been doing all along be it a good or bad habit.

I will look into them books and CD.
What do they actually teach you?

I won't be to bad with the number of shots. I will have 45-50 shots although there is a lot to look at and keep an eye on like the major factor, wind, then there is the basics of hold, breathing, etc so it will take a lot of concentration and since I won't be getting 5's and V's I will have to learn not to count the points I am loosing or I will loose the head by the end of the first detail.

Sparks

dev110 wrote: »

I will look into them books and CD.
What do they actually teach you?

How your head works, basically.

since I won't be getting 5's and V's

See, there's one of the things those books stress - you need to think of the shot itself in terms of process, not outcome. So don't think 5's and V's, think of how well you followed your shot routine for that shot. Evaluate how well you followed the routine, how good your focus was, how relaxed you were, and so on. Change your metrics from a single number downrange to something you can influence on the firing line.

dev110

Sparks wrote: »

See, there's one of the things those books stress - you need to think of the shot itself in terms of process, not outcome. So don't think 5's and V's, think of how well you followed your shot routine for that shot. Evaluate how well you followed the routine, how good your focus was, how relaxed you were, and so on. Change your metrics from a single number downrange to something you can influence on the firing line.

So instead of counting the lost points I should look at why they went there?
And then start eliminating factors like hold and that and then the environmental factors like wind, did it increase/decrease or change direction.

Have you found the books good?

Sparks

dev110 wrote: »

So instead of counting the lost points I should look at why they went there?

No, it's a bit more basic than that - it's about focussing on the shot itself rather than its outcome. There's no point in counting lost points at all in a match. If you shoot a 4, how will counting the lost points help you shoot a V on the next shot?
If something went wrong with the shot, that's a different matter - and when I say "something wrong", I mean something at the firing point, not something at the target.

Have you found the books good?

I've found them quite helpful, but they're more a starting point and a direction - you really do need to work on it a lot, and having a coach to help with that is invaluable. Failing that, work with the others on your team if you can.

dev110

Sparks wrote: »

No, it's a bit more basic than that - it's about focussing on the shot itself rather than its outcome. There's no point in counting lost points at all in a match. If you shoot a 4, how will counting the lost points help you shoot a V on the next shot?
If something went wrong with the shot, that's a different matter - and when I say "something wrong", I mean something at the firing point, not something at the target.

So you are saying I should build a routine and stick to it every shot regardless of the outcome

I've found them quite helpful, but they're more a starting point and a direction - you really do need to work on it a lot, and having a coach to help with that is invaluable. Failing that, work with the others on your team if you can.

I want a starting point and direction so these books will be prefect. I will order the CD after Xmas and get started there.

Sparks

dev110 wrote: »

So you are saying I should build a routine and stick to it every shot regardless of the outcome

It's not as rigid as it sounds, but yeah. You build a routine in training, and you train with it for a few thousand shots, and then when you're in a match, you follow it. You don't try to do anything new for a match, because you won't have trained with it (you can learn new things in a match - you do all the time, and you learn the "last 1%" kind of tweak, but you take it away with you and you train with it, you don't try to compete with it until then).

I want a starting point and direction so these books will be prefect. I will order the CD after Xmas and get started there.

Good luck with it, and let us know how you fare!

dev110

Sparks wrote: »

It's not as rigid as it sounds, but yeah. You build a routine in training, and you train with it for a few thousand shots, and then when you're in a match, you follow it. You don't try to do anything new for a match, because you won't have trained with it (you can learn new things in a match - you do all the time, and you learn the "last 1%" kind of tweak, but you take it away with you and you train with it, you don't try to compete with it until then).


Good luck with it, and let us know how you fare!

Thanks for that.
I will start work on a routine with the .223 and move to the .308 when the license comes through.
I will keep you updated.

It wasn't me!

I found With Winning in Mind very good, but Bassham also has a much larger work which I found even better, in terms of both style and depth and breadth of content, which is Mental Management for Shooting Sports. I have it all on a memory stick, can give you a shout next time I'm heading to MNSCI or tie in for a walk and a shot or something. Very useful and he'll be able to go into more depth on what constitutes effective mental training as well as how to ensure you perform under pressure. Also full of great anecdotes and stories to illustrate his points.

dev110

Thanks a million. I should be on the range a good bit from when it re opens. I will be able to call up after work any Sunday (~half 3).

I worked out a routine last night and is inside the time limit for Bisley style shooting, I think is 45 seconds to record previous shooters score, look at wind, make call on wind and fire off a shot.
I will try it out on the .223 in the days to come to see if it could work.

demonloop

I (try) to think of each shot as the one and only shot.

60 matches of 1 shot each, rather than 1 match of 60 shots.

The current one is the only important one, nothing before it of after it matters.

poulo6.5

demonloop wrote: »

I (try) to think of each shot as the one and only shot.

60 matches of 1 shot each, rather than 1 match of 60 shots.

The current one is the only important one, nothing before it of after it matters.

thats a fair comment. i am no target shooter but any time a shot well is when i clear my mind of everything and just take every shot as it comes

It wasn't me!

Likewise, regarding breaking your mind out of the idea of strings/match scores and the like. If you do find yourself drifting that way (and you will - just have to accept it and deal with it proactively rather than panicking) I find focusing on a key element of the shooting helps get me back into the zone, and using little directive keywords helps do that. If I start thinking stuff like "okay, just three more tens to go and we've a new PB, I'll just say to myself "Hold" and focus on the relaxation of my shoulders and slowing my breathing, then "squeeeeeze" for the trigger and the shot will go off as if by magic and I'm right back in the zone. Trick is not to try and not think of the score-based stuff, but to re-direct the mind towards positive affirmations of technique when it does happen, since the mind can only have one thing to the forefront at a given time. You just have to make sure that that's something that's going to help you. I also have Stenvaag's wife's book, which is where I picked up the keywords stuff, and that was very useful. Can lend you that sometime too.

Sparks

Something else to consider is your arousal level (yes, yes, hee hee hee and so on, but in shooting it refers to your brain's activity level and your heartrate and your muscle tension). When shooting well, it needs to be around a set amount - not too low or you don't pay attention, but not too high or you can't concentrate or settle.

It's hard (if not impossible) to describe in english what you've got to do to maintain the correct level, but about the best description I can come up with is stepping back mentally and listening for a quiet place in your head, even when standing there (or lying or kneeling) on the firing line. And you do need that quiet place; we've got the studies* that show that when experienced target shooters take a shot (as opposed to refusing it), they have higher alpha wave activity in their frontal lobes (ie, their minds are calmer) and lower cortico-cortico communication (ie, their minds aren't micromanaging their motor function - they're letting the thousands of training shots get used by the subconcious to do the shot routine, instead of making it up as they go along). You can't do that with a high arousal level.



* Deeny, Hillman, Janelle and Hatfield; Journal of Sport & Exercise Psychology, 2003, v.25, 188-204, Cortico-cortical communication and superior performance in skilled marksmen: An EEG coherence analysis, in case you're interested

demonloop

Sparks wrote: »

Something else to consider is your arousal level

Married life eh?

Sparks

demonloop wrote: »

Married life eh?

Sheesh

Sparks wrote: »

(yes, yes, hee hee hee and so on, but in shooting it refers to your brain's activity level and your heartrate and your muscle tension)

dev110

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Likewise, regarding breaking your mind out of the idea of strings/match scores and the like. If you do find yourself drifting that way (and you will - just have to accept it and deal with it proactively rather than panicking) I find focusing on a key element of the shooting helps get me back into the zone, and using little directive keywords helps do that. If I start thinking stuff like "okay, just three more tens to go and we've a new PB, I'll just say to myself "Hold" and focus on the relaxation of my shoulders and slowing my breathing, then "squeeeeeze" for the trigger and the shot will go off as if by magic and I'm right back in the zone. Trick is not to try and not think of the score-based stuff, but to re-direct the mind towards positive affirmations of technique when it does happen, since the mind can only have one thing to the forefront at a given time. You just have to make sure that that's something that's going to help you. I also have Stenvaag's wife's book, which is where I picked up the keywords stuff, and that was very useful. Can lend you that sometime too.

That makes sense with the keywords. It will trick your mind back into shooting mode instead of Sparks arousal mode
Ye I will get that book off you sometime in the future. I will start with the CD and the book on the memory stick and when they are working out for me I will read the next and see what tips they can give.

Sparks wrote: »

Something else to consider is your arousal level (yes, yes, hee hee hee and so on, but in shooting it refers to your brain's activity level and your heartrate and your muscle tension). When shooting well, it needs to be around a set amount - not too low or you don't pay attention, but not too high or you can't concentrate or settle.

It's hard (if not impossible) to describe in english what you've got to do to maintain the correct level, but about the best description I can come up with is stepping back mentally and listening for a quiet place in your head, even when standing there (or lying or kneeling) on the firing line. And you do need that quiet place; we've got the studies* that show that when experienced target shooters take a shot (as opposed to refusing it), they have higher alpha wave activity in their frontal lobes (ie, their minds are calmer) and lower cortico-cortico communication (ie, their minds aren't micromanaging their motor function - they're letting the thousands of training shots get used by the subconcious to do the shot routine, instead of making it up as they go along). You can't do that with a high arousal level.



* Deeny, Hillman, Janelle and Hatfield; Journal of Sport & Exercise Psychology, 2003, v.25, 188-204, Cortico-cortical communication and superior performance in skilled marksmen: An EEG coherence analysis, in case you're interested

Is that why ye wear does funny looking pants....to keep things under control :D

Sparks

See, this is what I mean by:

because you're Irish, you've got more of a hurdle than some would have, because our national psyche kindof has the sarcastic "Yeah, right" dial turned all the way up to 11

dev110

Sparks wrote: »

See, this is what I mean by:

I don't know what your on about :P

All the mental states of mind is interesting and how it affects as your shooting. Trick is trying to get it to work in your favour

Bananaman

I've shot a lot of disciplines across shotgun, rifle and pistol.

Some of it is extrememly slow - as in a lot of.time per shot - such as Benchrest Riflr, Bullseye Pistol, etc where you have a lot of time between shots - as in upwards of a minute - when your mind has a lot of time to wander and start thinking about score

Some of it is a mixed bag - such as Gallery Rifle, WA1500 Pistol or Clay shooting - where you have a good bit of prep time followed by some quick shots in succession - with seconds between shots - not so much time for the mind to wander but lits of opportunity to overthink things

Some of it is very fast - such as Steel Challenge Pistol or IPSC Pistol or Shotgun Flurries - where the shots are milliseconds apart and you,have little or no tine for the mind to wander.

All of.the disciplines I shoot benefit from the others - IPSC is all about acquiring a sight picture and firing in a fraction of a second and getting your finger outside the trigger guard - means you,dont.dither.in,other forms of shooting and much of the muscle memory exercises (trigger and muzzle control) benefit everything

Benchrest is all,about the breathing - benefits Gallery Rifle and WA1500

While not having had any formal trainibg on technique I have watched what others do - studied my own form and worked on,the weak parts.

But the most common theme - across any kind of shooting,is - ignore your score - it is not.relevant - you cannot do anything about.it - thinking about.it.is a total distraction - shoot your shots, complete the match - tot it up, work out your stats, see how you did afterwards - while the gun is loaded - focus only on the next shot.
Regardless.of whether I have 20 shots in 20 mins or 20 shots in 10 seconds it is still true.

I have never had a problem with being,distracted by others - unless its a bit of craic.and they are trying,to make you laugh - its hard to block out the image of a pasty white arse you saw while moving,between stands in Olympic Trap - but at this stage it is hard.to remember if I worked at it or not

B'Man

demonloop

Bananaman wrote: »

I've shot a lot of disciplines across shotgun, rifle and pistol.

Some of it is extrememly slow - as in a lot of.time per shot - such as Benchrest Riflr, Bullseye Pistol, etc where you have a lot of time between shots - as in upwards of a minute - when your mind has a lot of time to wander and start thinking about score

Some of it is a mixed bag - such as Gallery Rifle, WA1500 Pistol or Clay shooting - where you have a good bit of prep time followed by some quick shots in succession - with seconds between shots - not so much time for the mind to wander but lits of opportunity to overthink things

Some of it is very fast - such as Steel Challenge Pistol or IPSC Pistol or Shotgun Flurries - where the shots are milliseconds apart and you,have little or no tine for the mind to wander.

All of.the disciplines I shoot benefit from the others - IPSC is all about acquiring a sight picture and firing in a fraction of a second and getting your finger outside the trigger guard - means you,dont.dither.in,other forms of shooting and much of the muscle memory exercises (trigger and muzzle control) benefit everything

Benchrest is all,about the breathing - benefits Gallery Rifle and WA1500

While not having had any formal trainibg on technique I have watched what others do - studied my own form and worked on,the weak parts.

But the most common theme - across any kind of shooting,is - ignore your score - it is not.relevant - you cannot do anything about.it - thinking about.it.is a total distraction - shoot your shots, complete the match - tot it up, work out your stats, see how you did afterwards - while the gun is loaded - focus only on the next shot.
Regardless.of whether I have 20 shots in 20 mins or 20 shots in 10 seconds it is still true.

I have never had a problem with being,distracted by others - unless its a bit of craic.and they are trying,to make you laugh - its hard to block out the image of a pasty white arse you saw while moving,between stands in Olympic Trap - but at this stage it is hard.to remember if I worked at it or not

B'Man

I think your keyboard has its <space> and <.> wires crossed

dev110

Thanks B'Man

It will just take a lot of practice to drown out the score side of things.
It will be tough since the score will be read out and recorded after every shot.
I will have to compete in any competition I can to build experience as this is where I will fall down most even if I am doing well in training.
Bring on 2012

MiGiD

I don't use any books or tapes. I just do what Matt Fox tells me. Simple. I only question if I've tried it for a while and it really isn't working for me.

You have to remember that doing well in training doesn't always equate to doing well in competition because training and competition are two different things. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

When you think about it you can never compete under training conditions so why train under training conditions? You should really train under competition conditions. You can't do anything during a match to replicate the training environment as there are too many variables out of your control but you or your coach can replicate a competition environment while training.

You could get someone to stand beside you and stare at you while shooting (doesn't work if you're too comfortable in their presence and don't feel like you're being judged). You could do some jumping jacks before shooting so your heart rate and adrenaline levels are more like they are during competition so you have to learn to bring them back down quickly. Or, if you train with a couple of others you can take turns shooting while the others stand behind you watching you shoot (that brings in a nice element of competition as well as feeling that you're being watched - especially if there's money on the line).

There's lots of little things like that you can do to up the intensity of a training session. No point doing it before you have the basics nailed down first though in my opinion as you have to have confidence in what your doing physically before you can be confident in what you're doing mentally.

Sparks

MiGiD wrote: »

why train under training conditions?

Same reason you don't learn to drive by driving around Dublin during rush hour on your first day
Some things, like a new shot routine tweak or building up endurance in the position or whatever, you at least start training with under relaxed conditions. You're focussing on getting the routine correct, rather than focussing on getting it fast or robust. You do move on to training under pressure, but if you start there, it's far harder to focus on the task at hand (plus, we don't have enough competitions to just train with that kind of stress).

There's lots of little things like that you can do to up the intensity of a training session. No point doing it before you have the basics nailed down first though

Exactly!





ps. Matt's been giving you tapes

MiGiD

:P I learned to drive going around Carlow town on my first day. But yeah, as I said you have to be doing it right physically before you can do it right mentally.

I've listened to all the stuff Matt has given me but there's nothing in them that stands out for me personally except funny things like the 'dead but not dead headmaster' somewhere in Africa hehe. They provide information in a way that has to suit as many people as possible whereas a coach with the same information will read the person their telling it to as they tell it and adjust it to a 'format' that the person can best process.

I'm still open to trying more audio stuff. Just because I haven't found anything yet that works well for me doesn't mean I won't. Have to get the Bassham stuff off IWM at some point to see what that's like.

I think I need something narrated by Patrick Stewart, David Attenborough or someone like them. Any voice that doesn't annoy me

'The Mental Game of Rifle Shooting' narrated by Morgan Freeman I'd buy that!

Mr.Flibble

MiGiD wrote: »

you can never compete under training conditions so why train under training conditions?

Two reasons at least:

1. Because there is a lot more to proper training than just practicing competitons.

2. Because in a sense you can't do otherwise - training will always be training, or at best a simulation. I think I know what you mean by perfect practice, and it's not the same as the real thing.

poulo6.5

Mr.Flibble wrote: »

Two reasons at least:

1. Because there is a lot more to proper training than just practicing competitons.

2. Because in a sense you can't do otherwise - training will always be training, or at best a simulation. I think I know what you mean by perfect practice, and it's not the same as the real thing.

so are you saying you dont need to practice.????

something as simple as mussel memory is very important when it comes to the competition

Sparks

poulo6.5 wrote: »

so are you saying you dont need to practice.????

That's the exact opposite of what he's saying. It's also the exact opposite of what MiGiD is saying.

poulo6.5

Mr.Flibble wrote: »

Two reasons at least:

1. Because there is a lot more to proper training than just practicing competitons.
.

i can read to thanks sparks,

however i am trying to make the point that practising is very important. be it dry firing while lying on the ground at home or just putting rounds down range with out any pressure

becoming familiar with your rifle means you can operate it without having to think about it, there in freeing up your mind for more important things.

i am no expert, and by no means have as much experience as you in the world of competition shooting. but to dismiss practising as not that important is in my opinion bad advise.