Buying land - list of rights

Doc Ruby

Already posted this over on accom/prop and got no response sooo...

I'm thinking about purchasing a bit of agricultural land which may serve a few purposes down the years (not building a bunker, maybe a holiday camping spot or something, haha) including agricultural, cultivating wood for fuel, hunting, and so on.

We're talking about 3-4 acres here, what rights to I need to make sure I'm getting when I buy? For example

• hunting rights
• access rights
• whichever one applies to ground rent

and so on? I'd prefer to avoid any gotchas up the road if I try to do what I like with my own land.

sheesh

don't know about hunting rights its your land i suppose you can shoot what you want so long as its not protected


Acess rights? access rights for who? you will need to have a public road to your land or else a right of way through someones elses land so yes you will need to check how you will acess the land

Doc Ruby

sheesh wrote: »

don't know about hunting rights its your land i suppose you can shoot what you want so long as its not protected

As far a I'm aware there's a few rights which may or may not be part of the land purchase, with hunting being one of them. May be mistaken in that but I thought I'd see did anyone know before asking a solicitor.

Tabnabs

If you have freehold, then you own the land as opposed to lease hold.

TBH, a chat with a solicitor would be most useful (you'll need one anyway for the purchase).

eth0

There is some outdated law from the '40s still around that requires you to have a license to cut a tree more than 10 years old

Grizzly 45

Think you mean the sporting rights to the land..Not the hunting rights[no such thing here!].
This can be pretty complex or not at all..Sporting rights are a hang over from when the land was owned by the nobility,and the huge estates were split up around the time of the Land leauge into smaller holdings.somtimes the Ascendency landlord held onto the sporting rights of the land and the land was sold with or without clear title to the sporting rights.
When you get to research the title of your property as to to see wether there is any charges or disputes on the property,this will also tell you wether the sporting rights are included in the land title.If it is no bother,if not,you might have to research to who has them and see about buying them back,if you want to do everything 1000% above board.

@eth0.
called a felling liscense,and just as well it is there as CNUTS with no sense of value historical,heritage or other would be cutting down fine mature trees that are no danger to anyone around the countryside.:mad:

eth0

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

@eth0.
called a felling liscense,and just as well it is there as CNUTS with no sense of value historical,heritage or other would be cutting down fine mature trees that are no danger to anyone around the countryside.:mad:

and they'd be cutting them down to make room for a massive empty lawn that needs to be cut every week during the summer around their McMansion 'cause thats what the cool kids in more modern countries like the States are doing

Would this couple of acres be exempt from any impending property tax / site value shoite they are planning to bring in?

Grizzly 45

Nope!! It the house that will be valued not the land!! As otherwise the property speculators and farmers would be howling for FG blood!:pac:

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

When you get to research the title of your property as to to see wether there is any charges or disputes on the property,this will also tell you wether the sporting rights are included in the land title.If it is no bother,if not,you might have to research to who has them and see about buying them back,if you want to do everything 1000% above board.

Thats the one I was thinking of. Any other quirky little quirks I should be looking into?

Grizzly 45

Cant think of any others off the top .You do and will need a good solicitor to check this further in depth,but some of the basics you can do yourself if you have the land folio number..Or if it is been untouched by the Celtic Tiger the land registery number..Waterford has the folio number database,which is 95%ish on line now,if you can find somone who has a subscription into land registery online to check it for you.
The old land registery numbers,go to Setanta house in Dublin,and they will do a physical search for the land registery number.

bonniebede

water issues if it has a running stream.
zoning.
ESb cables over or under the land.

Doc Ruby

bonniebede wrote: »

water issues if it has a running stream.

What, like upstream or downstream use? I don't plan to use any heavy fertilisers or anything... Other rights include "turbury", the right to cut turf on the land, it seems.

Grizzly 45

Water..If you want to put in a little hydro electric plant.You need to own both sides of the stream.Technically illegal to do so as well under the Shannon hydro electric scheme act of 1927.Where the ESB was granted total rights to every little puddle and stream to generate power from.
But then how many streams are there that will power a house with modern jumps in technology?;)
The higher up you are on the stream the obligation there is on you to make sure that down stream people are getting the same water as you.so you cant go building a dam on your property and diverting the stream where you have the most benefit from it.Or somthing along those lines in common law.
Trubury.
Well digging for turf is now illegal thanks to our benighted Green/EU overlords whims!!:rolleyes:.But it can also apply to being allowed to harvest firewood from windfall and dead trees.

eth0

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Water..If you want to put in a little hydro electric plant.You need to own both sides of the stream.Technically illegal to do so as well under the Shannon hydro electric scheme act of 1927.Where the ESB was granted total rights to every little puddle and stream to generate power from.
But then how many streams are there that will power a house with modern jumps in technology?;)
The higher up you are on the stream the obligation there is on you to make sure that down stream people are getting the same water as you.so you cant go building a dam on your property and diverting the stream where you have the most benefit from it.Or somthing along those lines in common law.
Trubury.
Well digging for turf is now illegal thanks to our benighted Green/EU overlords whims!!:rolleyes:.But it can also apply to being allowed to harvest firewood from windfall and dead trees.

Surely if you only generate power from it and not actually getting rid of any water worth mentioning they're getting the same amount.

If you're going off the grid then most of your effort should probably be spent getting to a point where you don'tneed a whole lot of electricity rather than telling the 4 kids with their xbox 360s and high-eng gaming PC's with 400-watt graphics cards and the lad with the treadmill who thinks running to nowhere in th eliving room is more interesting than going outside 'ah shure feck it lets tell those ESB lads to feck off with themselves and we'll generate our own power'

Are our green overlord's laws actually enforced or did FF only allow them past because it suited them?

Esel

Spelling is 'turbary', in case anyone is googling etc.

eth0

the *real* spelling is Tubridy.

and it's a tax just to pay his salary. In parts of the country where he's popular random plots of land come with the requirement to pay this tax

Esel

Read something about that in the Sunday Turbine alright...

Grizzly 45

eth0 wrote: »

Surely if you only generate power from it and not actually getting rid of any water worth mentioning they're getting the same amount.

If you're going off the grid then most of your effort should probably be spent getting to a point where you don'tneed a whole lot of electricity rather than telling the 4 kids with their xbox 360s and high-eng gaming PC's with 400-watt graphics cards and the lad with the treadmill who thinks running to nowhere in th eliving room is more interesting than going outside 'ah shure feck it lets tell those ESB lads to feck off with themselves and we'll generate our own power'

Are our green overlord's laws actually enforced or did FF only allow them past because it suited them?

True,but then you know how pendantic and anal the powers that be re here about things when they find out.Well, its an EU diective that the Green Gestapo[aka Friends of the Irish Enviroment] are only too busy reporting back on and pushing for people to be hung drawn and quaterd for cutting a creel of turf off a bog that thie fammiles have worked for generations.Need to talk to Ming Flanagan TD about it.He is repesenting the bog cutters and pot growers in the bogs of Ireland on this one.

MadsL

pushing for people to be hung drawn and quaterd for cutting a creel of turf off a bog that thie fammiles have worked for generations.

I see you have fallen for the myths peddled by the turfcutters association and Ming; 'shure tis just a bit of footing turf by auld fellas' .

The reality is mechanised ripping up of protected habitats. More species than us on the planet that need to survive!

Here's the reality...92% of raised bogs have already been totally destroyed beyond restoration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E06dCKDyw1M

Grizzly 45

MadsL wrote: »

Here's the reality...92% of raised bogs have already been totally destroyed beyond restoration.

By Bord na Mona perhaps ????Not to mind polluting the Shannon with bog water runoff for the last 70 odd years as well.:rolleyes:

MadsL

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

By Bord na Mona perhaps ????Not to mind polluting the Shannon with bog water runoff for the last 70 odd years as well.:rolleyes:

So time for the little guy to have a go? Please, try to have a brain. Where did I suggest that Bord na Mona were justified in doing this either?

Tabnabs

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

By Bord na Mona perhaps ????Not to mind polluting the Shannon with bog water runoff for the last 70 odd years as well.:rolleyes:

You want to see pollution to the Shannon, try the local farmers and the run off from their land, both shocking and disgusting.

Grizzly 45

MadsL wrote: »

So time for the little guy to have a go? Please, try to have a brain. Where did I suggest that Bord na Mona were justified in doing this either?

Have a brain yourself!!!:mad: You would have more creditability going after B na M first,and would give your crusade more belivability.But that might be too much for you???Taking on an Irish state body:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:???
Easier to pick on the little guys...Of course there is no chance of compromise is there ??Typical tunnel vision of the Zealot!!!
BTW the little guy was there long before Irish state sponserd Bog rape was ever conceived.

Grizzly 45

Tabnabs wrote: »

You want to see pollution to the Shannon, try the local farmers and the run off from their land, both shocking and disgusting.

Indeed,
As is the crap running in from the midland bogs,[the main reason the Shannon river is BROWN with turf runoff] the untreated sewage from a few municiple sewer works of major towns that have their runoffs into the Shannon as well,and a few thousand wonky Celtic Tiger housing estates sewage plants and tanks.:mad: Absolutely shocking and disgusting.

Tabnabs

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed,
As is the crap running in from the midland bogs,B]the main reason the Shannon river is BROWN with turf runoff[/B the untreated sewage from a few municiple sewer works of major towns that have their runoffs into the Shannon as well,and a few thousand wonky Celtic Tiger housing estates sewage plants and tanks.:mad: Absolutely shocking and disgusting.

LOL, Ah Griz, you're kidding me :rolleyes: It's brown because the lough and river bed is mainly bog. If it was pollution you wouldn't have the huge tourism and angling haven that we are very lucky to enjoy.

Grizzly 45

You might sail or kayack on it Tabnabs:).I scuba dive in it!!:D
I dunno if you have heard of large amounts of green alge in Lough Derg in the Summer??Caused by phosphates from all sorts of runoff from the human pollution.Yes the Shannon is in certain parts is turf bottom alright,however it does not explain how the water contains turf particles in suspension??And that it is remarkably less above the Midlands??

Well if it is so clean.I invite you and anyone else to have a nice fresh glass of clean pure Shannon water at Limerick??After all you said it was polluted by "farmers" slurry runoff!;):rolleyes:.

MadsL

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Have a brain yourself!!!:mad: You would have more creditability going after B na M first,and would give your crusade more belivability.But that might be too much for you???Taking on an Irish state body:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:???
Easier to pick on the little guys...Of course there is no chance of compromise is there ??Typical tunnel vision of the Zealot!!!
BTW the little guy was there long before Irish state sponserd Bog rape was ever conceived.

I suggest you learn the difference between blanket and raised bog.

Bord Na Mona no longer own any raised bog SAC land. They handed it back - here's an example - http://www.npws.ie/naturereserves/tipperary/

Are you at all familiar with the concept of EU law? It's not a campaign, not zealots - just basic law to do with protecting the 8% of the habitat that hasn't already been destroyed. Plus the fact that Ireland will get fined 20,000 euro a day if it doesn't enforce this law, in addition to multi-million euro fines. It is not picking on the little guy, it is preventing ALL taxpayers having to fork out on the fines for the profits being made by turfcutters on the pretence that this is a traditional type of practice.

I'm confused, are you in favour of bog rape or not?...rolleyes etc etc

Grizzly 45

MadsL wrote: »

I suggest you learn the difference between blanket and raised bog
Bord Na Mona no longer own any raised bog SAC land. They handed it back - here's an example - http://www.npws.ie/naturereserves/tipperary/

Are you at all familiar with the concept of EU law? It's not a campaign, not zealots - just basic law to do with protecting the 8% of the habitat that hasn't already been destroyed. Plus the fact that Ireland will get fined 20,000 euro a day if it doesn't enforce this law, in addition to multi-million euro fines. It is not picking on the little guy, it is preventing ALL taxpayers having to fork out on the fines for the profits being made by turfcutters on the pretence that this is a traditional type of practice.

"Handed back" and Aquired " have two different meanings.
Belive you when they hand back a blanket bog somplace.
And so according to you then it is ok for a semi state body to destroy blanket bogs instead ???:rolleyes::rolleyes:Be intresting to see how the gardening community will react when all their Moss peat products go off the shelves too...Ooops sorry Bna mona has that sown up as well and are perfectly entitled to continue destroying the blanket bogs.
Go away outta that!!:rolleyes:

And Friends of the Irish Enviroment is authorised by whom exactly to go around and spy and rat out people?? Yes well aware of what our EU overlords want to enforce with their socialistic LALA happy clappy enviromental policeis!And that we havent any politicans that would tell them to go away and get bent,but of course we are too dumb to read the fine print on any of these treaties on aything and just sign them willy nilly so we can be seen at the press conferences looking important signing important international treaties,for the aul vote back home!
20k a day..FFS!! That wouldnt even pay one civil servants pension for a year!!Not to mind a cent of the national debt s intrest Be better off if we did pay it.

I'm confused, are you in favour of bog rape or not?...rolleyes etc etc

Ever hear of the word compromise??Doesnt exist in the beuracratic or zealots dictionary??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Would it be too hurtful to the oh so fragile enviroment :rolleyes: that it was stipulated that anyone who have lifted turf for generations from their bog could only do it by manual labour from start to finish??
THAT means the cutting drying,drawing etc.So no chance of any of your imagined hugely wealthy turf cutters.,as who is going to make any sort of money doing that by manual labour??And it can only be done by immediate fammily members,not a whole team of imported Poles or whatever.
Its back breaking work,and that alone would be a disincentive to anyone bar the hidebound traditionalst.:rolleyes: Maybe also estimating how much turf each family could draw from their plot and then simply imposing a lifetime tonnage of the bog?IOW you could take out a 1000 tons over the lifetime of a certain bog without destroying it.Once thats realised,it cant be used again ...ever.
But that obviously would be too much work for some and logic doesnt work well with authoritive zealots does it.:rolleyes:

MadsL

"Handed back" and Aquired " have two different meanings.
Belive you when they hand back a blanket bog somplace.
And so according to you then it is ok for a semi state body to destroy blanket bogs instead ???:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Where did I say that? I've always felt that turf cutting in the modern age to be absurd.

Be intresting to see how the gardening community will react when all their Moss peat products go off the shelves too...Ooops sorry Bna mona has that sown up as well and are perfectly entitled to continue destroying the blanket bogs.
Go away outta that!!:rolleyes:

Never supported that either...

And Friends of the Irish Enviroment is authorised by whom exactly to go around and spy and rat out people??

Are you paranoid much?

Yes well aware of what our EU overlords want to enforce with their socialistic LALA happy clappy enviromental policeis!And that we havent any politicans that would tell them to go away and get bent,but of course we are too dumb to read the fine print on any of these treaties on aything and just sign them willy nilly so we can be seen at the press conferences looking important signing important international treaties,for the aul vote back home!

Hmm the usual anti-EU rant from those who benefit financially the most. So you would abolish all environmental controls? Interested to hear your view on Fracking or Slurry runoff.

20k a day..FFS!! That wouldnt even pay one civil servants pension for a year!!Not to mind a cent of the national debt s intrest Be better off if we did pay it.

Thanks for volunteering, you'll be sending a cheque to cover your share of the 7.3million in fines a year I take it...will we just take it from your wages/dole/farm payment then?

Ever hear of the word compromise??Doesnt exist in the beuracratic or zealots dictionary??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Watch the wind doesn't change you'll stick like that, rolling your eyes so much. The EU have been flagging this to turfcutters since 1996!! It is not the 'beuracratic or zealots' who refuse to compromise - it is the professional cutters who are putting out propaganda that this is just auld wans footing turf: all the while with the eye on the cash.

Would it be too hurtful to the oh so fragile enviroment :rolleyes: that it was stipulated that anyone who have lifted turf for generations from their bog could only do it by manual labour from start to finish??
THAT means the cutting drying,drawing etc.So no chance of any of your imagined hugely wealthy turf cutters.,as who is going to make any sort of money doing that by manual labour??And it can only be done by immediate fammily members,not a whole team of imported Poles or whatever.
Its back breaking work,and that alone would be a disincentive to anyone bar the hidebound traditionalst.:rolleyes: Maybe also estimating how much turf each family could draw from their plot and then simply imposing a lifetime tonnage of the bog?IOW you could take out a 1000 tons over the lifetime of a certain bog without destroying it.Once thats realised,it cant be used again ...ever.
But that obviously would be too much work for some and logic doesnt work well with authoritive zealots does it.:rolleyes:

..and this being Ireland how do you propose enforcing that? The moment the 'spy and rat out people' are gone, back up the machine there lads...

Grizzly 45

MadsL wrote: »

Where did I say that? I've always felt that turf cutting in the modern age to be absurd.

Well, would mind stating this that you are against BNa M destroying the bogs ??Sorry the old mind reading skills arent up to scratch .

Never supported that either...

What??Selling Moss peat or BnaM selling such??

Are you paranoid much?

Are you generally an ignorant person to people you dont agree with online... Much??

Hmm the usual anti-EU rant from those who benefit financially the most. So you would abolish all environmental controls? Interested to hear your view on Fracking or Slurry runoff.

How do you know whether I benefit from the EU??[I wish!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:]Are you justbeing ignorant and use broad sweeping statements as well and belive everyone who posts in suport of somthing that doesnt fit your PC views is involved.
You still have alot to learn then..
As for the other two points which are totally unrelated.I never said abolish all controls I said COM-PRO-MISE.In case you missed or ignored my previous post about water quality I said there is enough bog runoff in the shannon???That is not coming from the whest.That is coming from the Midlands bogs.

Thanks for volunteering, you'll be sending a cheque to cover your share of the 7.3million in fines a year I take it...will we just take it from your wages/dole/farm payment then?

Well thats done anyway,you proably dont know about it its called TAXES..Somthing you pay when you get out in the really real world and get a job when you finish school or college.Of course you have to get a job first,which might be fun. So your point is...?I'm paying for it anyway as a self employed person.Quiet abit more actually than most.So I dont need some lecture about it from some teen online know it all..Thank you!



[Snippage of personal abuse]

The EU have been flagging this to turfcutters since 1996!! It is not the 'beuracratic or zealots' who refuse to compromise - it is the professional cutters who are putting out propaganda that this is just auld wans footing turf: all the while with the eye on the cash.

..

and this being Ireland how do you propose enforcing that? The moment the 'spy and rat out people' are gone, back up the machine there lads...

Proably by employing people like you to do the work.After all you KNOW ALL about turf cutters and their willy ways.Wouldnt you love a job like that??

MadsL

Well, would mind stating this that you are against BNa M destroying the bogs ??Sorry the old mind reading skills arent up to scratch .

I shouldn't have to. You were the one that assumed I supported BNaM somehow.

Are you generally an ignorant person to people you dont agree with online... Much??

You said "Friends of the Irish Enviroment is authorised by whom exactly to go around and spy and rat out people"

Sounds paranoid to me. Are you generally ignorant to people who spend their time trying to improve the world? Much?

How do you know whether I benefit from the EU??[I wish!!!!]Are you justbeing ignorant and use broad sweeping statements as well and belive everyone who posts in suport of somthing that doesnt fit your PC views is involved.

My "PC views" have nothing to do with it. EU law is just as much 'the law' as any other law. We have all benefited from EU membership.

You still have alot to learn then..

..and you might want to educate yourself about the facts about turfcutting...

In relation to private turf cutting, which involves tens of thousands of individuals in 128 designated sites around the country, the government introduced the "Cessation of Turf Cutting Scheme" in 1999 (see Fernandez et al, 2006). Under the voluntary scheme, domestic cutters were given 10 years notice to cease cutting turf and make new arrangements for their fuel supply. The 10 years notice or derogation, was given in light of the social and economic impacts immediate cessation of turf cutting would have had. The first derogation applied to 32 raised bog SACs designated in 1999, with cessation of turf cutting in 2009.

10 years notice enough do you think?

The 10 year derogation for the remaining 21 raised bog SACs designated in 2002 or thereafter is planned to be implemented in 2012, with the cessation of all turf cutting on these sites. The cessation of turf cutting on the 75 designated raised bog NHAs is planned to be implemented in 2014. The government are presently forming an inter-departmental working group with the aim of successfully implementing the cessation of turf cutting scheme. Over €23 million has been paid in compensation to turbary rights holders under this scheme and it is estimated that up to €250 million will be needed to compensate all remaining turbary rights holders. The cessation of turf cutting does not apply to blanket bog SACs and NHAs at the moment, except on blanket bog sites where turf cutting is found to be seriously affecting the conservation value of the site.

A series of compensation packages were offered to private turf cutters. This included the purchase of bog or the purchase of turbary rights; or an annual payment for ten years or the offer of another turf plot in the area and a once-off disturbance payment. By the end of 2001 over €4 million was spent on this scheme involving 5% of turbary rights holders. In 2003 domestic cutting was ongoing on 117 of the 139 designated bogs (Douglas et al, 2008). Under the 1999 Farm Agreement those who opted to continue cutting were expected to do so by acquiring a permit from the NPWS, which specifies the way that turf will be cut annually until 2008. Permit's were to be given for turf cutting on raised bog SACs and NHAs where it is deemed that turf cutting was not having a significant impact on the conservation status of the site (Swan, pers. comm. 2008). However, this control system was never implemented throughout the country.

As for the other two points which are totally unrelated.I never said abolish all controls I said COM-PRO-MISE.In case you missed or ignored my previous post about water quality I said there is enough bog runoff in the shannon???That is not coming from the whest.That is coming from the Midlands bogs.

I understood what you said, and what I posted above IS the compromise.


Quote:

Well thats done anyway,you proably dont know about it its called TAXES..Somthing you pay when you get out in the really real world and get a job when you finish school or college.Of course you have to get a job first,which might be fun.

I've paid 15 years of taxes in Ireland, and I'm glad I'm well out of a country that cannot control corruption, fraud and incompetence enough to keep those taxes going to the right places.

So your point is...?I'm paying for it anyway as a self employed person.Quiet abit more actually than most.So I dont need some lecture about it from some teen online know it all..Thank you!

So your point is...I've paid more than enough in taxes thank you....again with the assumptions.

Proably by employing people like you to do the work.After all you KNOW ALL about turf cutters and their willy ways.Wouldnt you love a job like that??

Very easy to appear like a know all to someone who clearly knows nothing.