www.icbf.com

pakalasa

New Dec 2011 proofs now up on the ICBF site;
I wonder who the big movers are this time.

http://www.icbf.com/

stanflt

pakalasa wrote: »

New Dec 2011 proofs now up on the ICBF site;
I wonder who the big movers are this time.

http://www.icbf.com/

no real movers- herd ebi actually increased(spent time with the calculator as new cow ebi s are available in ebi section]even though oman decreased by 30 or so

go figure

whelan1

RXR MUST HAVE PLUMMETED AND THE EBI'S OF THE HEIFER CALVES FROM MY BR/FR STOCK BULL HAVE GONE UP

Min

The fertility changes have caused the big changes, so while some bulls have reduced EBI, their ancestors might have received increases and this has given overall increases in EBI.
This is what I found despite some oman bulls decreasing in EBI, the ancestors of the cows have actually increased their EBI.

pakalasa

On the Beef side of things...:D

NCBC bulls
BB's - AZL & FHZ still easy calving with great weanling values
Char - Cottage Devon (DEZ) still hard calving. CF61, the maternal bull, good figures overall.
LIM - FL22 really good overall for very easy calving, pity docility is so poor. ADX and NHL look good too. CVV, 5 stars for everything. FL25 good too.
SIM - IS4, bottom 1% for milk within breed, :eek:. Otherwise he's fine. CAIRNVIEW SNAZZY - great figures.

My twopence....

bogman_bass

the big news on the dairy front is the arse falling out of RXOs figures and those of his sons and jerseys slipping down the ladder a bit

The waer changes to the weightings that made up the fertility figures for dairy bulls hence some big changes with a small number of bulls

no major changes with beef

GEU has come up as a nice alternative in an easy calving blue

bealaha

Just checked my friesian bull from this season, he was €108 and has now rose to €164, so im pretty happy with that:), i ll be hoping for plenty heifers next year:D, i got rid of him at the end of the season as he was quite saucy:mad:!!

flatout11

did anyone look at the top bulls on SBV ????
the 3 best in NCBC are salers!!! its time they woke up and scrapped the sbv rankings as they are not relevant to suckler producers :rolleyes:

reilig

flatout11 wrote: »

did anyone look at the top bulls on SBV ????
the 3 best in NCBC are salers!!! its time they woke up and scrapped the sbv rankings as they are not relevant to suckler producers :rolleyes:

I don't agree. While the top 3 overall may be salers, these figures are scewed because of the small saler herd in the country. I think its very useful to have SBV rankings within breeds as they are a good indicator to a suckler farmer when buying a bull.

pakalasa

In fairness, there has been talk already about changing the SBV's and how they are calculated.
I never look at the SBV. To me it would be like having a rating system for sports players, where you compare backs to forwards, to goalkeepers. It just doesn't make sense.You have to compare like to like, as in weanling values to weanling values, milk to milk etc.

flatout11

reilig wrote: »

I don't agree. While the top 3 overall may be salers, these figures are scewed because of the small saler herd in the country. I think its very useful to have SBV rankings within breeds as they are a good indicator to a suckler farmer when buying a bull.

the size of the saler herd wont scew it sufficiently besides the reliabilkity figures for 2 of them are over 80%
edivently the weightings have changed and hence the values are now scewed
the SBV is meanlingless

pakalasa wrote: »

In fairness, there has been talk already about changing the SBV's and how they are calculated.
I never look at the SBV. To me it would be like having a rating system for sports players, where you compare backs to forwards, to goalkeepers. It just doesn't make sense.You have to compare like to like, as in weanling values to weanling values, milk to milk etc.

yea they are talking about changing it (they know it doesnt add up) but they are still promoting the old system

Suarez7

Can anyone explain how the saler bull Rio has jumped from -E42 to +E114 in this evaluation for milk?huge difference!!His reliability figures had been 80% now up to 94% so not a huge jump.His previous figures from recent evaluations had always been very consistant in the -40s for milk.
Also fl21 has dropped down to -e30 from +E19.big drop too for a maternal sire in one evaluation....
Is Rio a decent bull to keep replacements from as have 4 red heifer calves off milky red limousin cows this yr?

pakalasa

RIO
That is very strange. I got rid of a few RIO heifers I had from first calvers, on the believe that they would have no milk.:(
It's either a mistake or they have dramatically changed the way they derieve the figure.

BeeDI

The extreme swings, in ratings of certain traits of a lot of beef bulls, just makes you wonder about the whole reliability of the system.

flatout11

BeeDI wrote: »

The extreme swings, in ratings of certain traits of a lot of beef bulls, just makes you wonder about the whole reliability of the system.

they keep tinkering with the weightings, this latest version seems like a right balls up

jeff greene

I can’t see anywhere on the site where the changes are but it looks like they changed the base cow for the index. Of the ones I checked only Shottle has held, big drops for Oman, Durham( hence RXR imploding) and Goldwyn . Ruud went up. Resetting the base cow always suits newer bulls and penalises older ones

BeeDI

I was looking at the average prices I got last two years, for AI weanlings from different bulls, and off my own stock charolais bull. Grandson of CF52, and not a world beater on looks by any means.
The AI calves made average €17 more
I didn't know whether to be disapointed with that fact, or delighted with performance of my own lad:o I chose the latter, just to give myself a clap on the back, for my good judgement when buying him:cool:

Happy Christmass to one and all.
I'm off on the tear this evening:D

blue5000

flatout11 wrote: »

did anyone look at the top bulls on SBV ????
the 3 best in NCBC are salers!!! its time they woke up and scrapped the sbv rankings as they are not relevant to suckler producers :rolleyes:

Docility must'nt be taken into account so when they calculated this:eek:

Suarez7

First time we have used Salers this year and all four calves are quiet as mice off Rio.Was worried they would be wild but docility not an issue with them.

pakalasa

Suarez7 wrote: »

First time we have used Salers this year and all four calves are quiet as mice off Rio.Was worried they would be wild but docility not an issue with them.

What I found with salers, and I've only used RIO, is it's not so much their docility, but they behave different from say Limousins. They don't like to be cornered or rounded up. They're grand if you are on your own, but bring a stranger into the yard and they go berserk. More so than other breeds.

pakalasa

New April 2012 Beef Proofs up on;
http://www.icbf.com/services/evaluations/active_bull_lists.php

Click on 'Excel' under Beef and 2012 , not 'Current List'.
They haven't updated for individual bulls yet. Sad I know, but I used a lot of new bulls this year. Nice to see how they are for calving etc...

bogman_bass

they're still the December proof unfortunatly

pakalasa

No, Click under where it says 'Current List' not on it.

Atilathehun

I really sometimes wonder about the accuracy of their statistics. Looked up my own stock charolais bull last night. Bought him as a yearling, and have had him six breeding seasons. I very rarely have had to assist a calving, and over 135 calves, we had one section.
He gets one star for ease if calving!!!!! Where's the logic in that?

bogman_bass

pakalasa wrote: »

No, Click under where it says 'Current List' not on it.

I did. I know it says march 2012 list and the list itself is new but the figures for the bulls are still from the December proof run. if you check any of the bulls their figures are the same as the december proofs. there should be a new proof run at the end of the month AFAIK

blue5000

Atilathehun wrote: »

I really sometimes wonder about the accuracy of their statistics. Looked up my own stock charolais bull last night. Bought him as a yearling, and have had him six breeding seasons. I very rarely have had to assist a calving, and over 135 calves, we had one section.
He gets one star for ease if calving!!!!! Where's the logic in that?

I'm not sure how much of the star rating is for him and how much is for his relations. What I mean is you could buy a 5 star young bull in a sale and he'd have no calves yet himself. Have a look at the reliability, as he gets older this should get better. Also you have had 1 cs in 135 calvings, this is almost 1% so that wouldn't be doing his ease of calving figures any good.

Atilathehun

A question about ICBF.
When you buy in animals at a mart, how long does it take before the bought in animals show up in your herd in ICBF.
I bought eight heifers a fortnignt ago, which showed up in my herd within 24 hours on agfood.ie. However, I still cannot see them when I log into ICBF?? Wouldn't mind, but I really want to see the ancestory of the heifers before putting them with the bull?

pakalasa

bogman_bass wrote: »

I did. I know it says march 2012 list and the list itself is new but the figures for the bulls are still from the December proof run.

Fair enough. I didn't realise that...

Seaba

Just wondering if someone can explain to me why the Limousin PAM is always put forward as a good breeder of replacements when his milk is -22 and fertility is just 20?

bogman_bass

pakalasa wrote: »

Fair enough. I didn't realise that...

in fairness it is quite misleading

Min

You can get the latest dairy bull information here - http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search_dairy_only_apr_2012/index.php