Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Lets be having you (or other fighting term)
Options
-
21-12-2011 5:28pm#1
Comments
-
-
-
-
Good to see the public taking action & making a stand, cant pay & wont pay, they cant jail us all!
0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
you mean which ones will object to a completely necessary and overdue source of income for a country that Is up to it's neck in debt, without proposing a sensible valid alternative.[At this stage, we know which elected representatives will stand up for us and which elected representatives careers are effectively over.
Populist nonsense!
They would be the first to object to cuts to an over bloated SW bill or public sector wages too.
The household charge is an across the board charge and will be administered locally.
The idiot career councillors who pander for votes by kissing babies and filling potholes have control of this money. If they squander it, it's because of the myopic view of the voters.
Or maybe I'm wrong and we should all join the "Occupy Market Sq" brigade (while sipping a Coke, wearing Levis and posting on Facebook from an iPhone). That'll get us out of debt without any need for taxes or cuts. Jeez.
0 -
you mean which ones will object to a completely necessary and overdue source of income for a country that Is up to it's neck in debt, without proposing a sensible valid alternative.
Populist nonsense!
They would be the first to object to cuts to an over bloated SW bill or public sector wages too.
The household charge is an across the board charge and will be administered locally.
The idiot career councillors who pander for votes by kissing babies and filling potholes have control of this money. If they squander it, it's because of the myopic view of the voters.
Or maybe I'm wrong and we should all join the "Occupy Market Sq" brigade (while sipping a Coke, wearing Levis and posting on Facebook from an iPhone). That'll get us out of debt without any need for taxes or cuts. Jeez.
In 1994 Enda Kenny objected to a household tax. There are plenty of alternatives open to the government eg a wealth tax that excludes the family home. These days a family home is more of a liability than an asset.
What about a 10e tax per acre on farmland, this would easily bring in just over 100 million.
In relation to your second point, I agree the electorate are to blame but promises and assurances were made and broken. It is important to remember who is associated with what parties at a local level. If a person is associated with a party that has caused or continues to prolong the situation we are in then they should leave this party and if they don't then it is up to the electorate to ensure they are not re-elected. If they are such a great public representative they should not feel the need to have a party rubber stamp their mandate.
Finally, to those like yourself who believe these protests are a waste of time, I can only assume if any cuts are reversed due to lobbying or protesting, that you won't be benefitting and will be happy to continue paying.0 -
Advertisement
-
Times have changed since thenIn 1994 Enda Kenny objected to a household tax.
It's still the only way of ensuring that everyone pays. The taxpayers (income tax) are the only ones paying anything to the exchequer at the moment and for a long time. The huge levels of SW benefits handed out are unsustainable and yet it seems to be heresy to even whisper that those families contribute back to their local area out of the money handed to them in the first place. Maybe if the charge was deducted at source it would ensure compliance. Oh sorry, can't cut welfare...dratThere are plenty of alternatives open to the government eg a wealth tax that excludes the family home. These days a family home is more of a liability than an asset.
True, but why target one sector? Even within that sector, there are huge disparities (100 acres in Donegal versus 50 in Carlow, I know which is the more profitable!)What about a 10e tax per acre on farmland, this would easily bring in just over 100 million.
Very true. However, there are 2 problems.In relation to your second point, I agree the electorate are to blame but promises and assurances were made and broken. It is important to remember who is associated with what parties at a local level. If a person is associated with a party that has caused or continues to prolong the situation we are in then they should leave this party and if they don't then it is up to the electorate to ensure they are not re-elected. If they are such a great public representative they should not feel the need to have a party rubber stamp their mandate.
1. Non-party affiliated representatives will be even more 'parish-pump', only worried about John-Joe down the road getting planning permission or making sure the potholes are filled down the boreen to Margarets house.
2. Party members are subject to the 'whip' and will blindly vote with their party to get kudos if it doesn't affect (1) too much.
The voting mechanism (PR-STV) is very fair in one way, but rife with the problems of 1 & 2 above. Even more so when the electorate are myopic NIMBYs that seem to flourish in Ireland.
When will people see the bigger picture ???
Don't worry, if the household charge isn't introduced due to protests, I won't be benefiting. I, as a married PAYE worker with a car and a mortgage, am quite sure that I will be cannon-fodder and will be hit again with whatever tax is introduced to make up for the absence of the Household Charge and protect "the most vulnerable in society" (bleurgh, if I hear that phrase once more, I'll vomit!).Finally, to those like yourself who believe these protests are a waste of time, I can only assume if any cuts are reversed due to lobbying or protesting, that you won't be benefitting and will be happy to continue paying.
It's very easy for students, workshy, retired, outright homeowners and the unemployed to protest.
The funny thing is that those who pay for their grants, dole, pensions, local authorities and Jobseekers Allowance via PAYE are working for the same 'corporate badguys' that the protests are about.0 -
Times have changed since then
It's still the only way of ensuring that everyone pays. The taxpayers (income tax) are the only ones paying anything to the exchequer at the moment and for a long time. The huge levels of SW benefits handed out are unsustainable and yet it seems to be heresy to even whisper that those families contribute back to their local area out of the money handed to them in the first place. Maybe if the charge was deducted at source it would ensure compliance. Oh sorry, can't cut welfare...drat
True, but why target one sector? Even within that sector, there are huge disparities (100 acres in Donegal versus 50 in Carlow, I know which is the more profitable!)
Very true. However, there are 2 problems.
1. Non-party affiliated representatives will be even more 'parish-pump', only worried about John-Joe down the road getting planning permission or making sure the potholes are filled down the boreen to Margarets house.
2. Party members are subject to the 'whip' and will blindly vote with their party to get kudos if it doesn't affect (1) too much.
The voting mechanism (PR-STV) is very fair in one way, but rife with the problems of 1 & 2 above. Even more so when the electorate are myopic NIMBYs that seem to flourish in Ireland.
When will people see the bigger picture ???
Don't worry, if the household charge isn't introduced due to protests, I won't be benefiting. I, as a married PAYE worker with a car and a mortgage, am quite sure that I will be cannon-fodder and will be hit again with whatever tax is introduced to make up for the absence of the Household Charge and protect "the most vulnerable in society" (bleurgh, if I hear that phrase once more, I'll vomit!).
It's very easy for students, workshy, retired, outright homeowners and the unemployed to protest.
The funny thing is that those who pay for their grants, dole, pensions, local authorities and Jobseekers Allowance via PAYE are working for the same 'corporate badguys' that the protests are about.
Pique, you make some good points.
But your first point that those paying income tax are the only ones contributing is wrong. I am on social welfare but I contribute through VAT, motor tax, carbon tax etc. I was a PAYE worker and contributed throughout my working years.
I am assuming you have never had to depend on SW but maybe if you did you would understand better. Personally I find it difficult to get by on the dole and I have paid my mortgage off years ago. I can only imagine what it is like for those with a large mortgage.
Just today I received yet another rejection letter from a job I applied for.
In my case, I contribute greatly to my community during periods of unemployment and I volunteer and organise various sports events as well as community clean ups so I feel I contribute well to the community whilst on SW.
What angers me is the people (particularly in their 20's) who claim social welfare and put it to no good use i.e. straight to the nearest pub.
In relation to the agri sector, I was just giving one example and not targetting that sector on its own.
Your comments about the party whip are spot on, its not a proper democracy as they have to use their vote whatever way they are instructed. Also if you attend a selection convention for any party, you will hear plenty rhectoric about belief in the party leader etc. That loyalty is all well and good but it doesn't really serve the needs of the electorate!
The reason the unemployed protest is because they are one of the worst affected sections of society.0 -
-
-
Thanks for re-opening the thread Muffler. Given the nature of the topic it was difficult to stay away from politics but from now on the thread can be used to keep people up to date on protests etc
Anyway, let's forget about austerity, enjoy christmas and get back to protests in the new year 0 -
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlGT_SizWLY
Advertisement