6 Phoenix Park Concerts 2012

Furious-Red

Security was inadequate and the Phoenix Park was an unsuitable location for the recent Swedish House Mafia concert which ended in stabbings and a number of drug-related deaths, the Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan has said.

Stewards did not know what the procedure was for ejecting drunken fans and the policy towards checking ID was not clear, the commissioner has concluded in his report of the concert which took place on July 7th to the Minister for Justice Alan Shatter.

The concert was characterised by some of the worst scenes of public disorder ever seen at a music event in Ireland.

Two men died of suspected drug overdoses having attended the Swedish House Mafia gig, six people were stabbed and 40 were treated in emergency departments.

The disorder spilled out on the streets with many passers-by saying they witnessed widespread drunkenness and violence.

In response to what happened, stewards will be given clear instructions by members of An Garda Síochána about ejecting drunken fans from concert venues in future or refusing them entry in the first place during future outdoor events.

He also said that concert promoters should have to provide a detailed risk assessment based on the type of the audience turning up for such events in the future.

Promoters MCD did not have an event control centre that was “fit for purpose” and a request by the Gardaí for additional accommodation for garda personnel “failed to materialise”, he added.

In addition garda personnel were not able to review concert footage because it has been sub-contracted out by the promoters to a contractor.

As a result, Gardaí had to request that the contractor monitor areas rather than officers being able to take the initiative themselves.

Commissioner Callinan was critical of the security provided by MCD at the concert. He said the high volume of incidents at the entrance gate search areas coupled with the large number of breaches in the perimeter fencing indicates that MCD Productions “did not have appropriate security measures in place”.

He said the Phoenix Park was not a suitable venue for an “electric music” concert of the type which took place when Swedish House Mafia played. Such incidents did not arise at Oxegen because it is away from the general population so decreasing the chances of public disorder.

He blamed the culture of drinking from off-licences before the concert as contributing to the anti-social behaviour in the vicinity of the concert venues.

The report itself was not made public for operational reasons, but the covering letter set out the conclusions and lessons to be learned from the review.

Mr Shatter said what happened at the Phoenix Park had been “shocking” and it was important that such incidents did not occur again and he praised the speed at which the report was published.

A MCD spokesman said they were studying the conclusions of the report, but promoter Denis Desmond has strongly defended his company’s handling of the concert.

He said that the security personnel provided by MCD had been above that sanctioned in the licencing terms and he had been “100 per cent satisfied” with it.

Dublin City Council stipulated a minimum of 364 security personnel for each concert. Mr Desmond said MCD provided 511 security personnel and 145 gardaí within the arena which the promoters had to pay for.

He said gardaí were responsible for what happened outside the concert arena and he was not the person selling spirits to underage concert-goers from off-licences.

MCD later called the statement issued by the Gardaí “unbalanced” and called for the full report to be made public immediately.

The promoters said they were “surprised and disappointed” the cover letter was issued without “notice or consultation” with MCD and called for a full independent public inquiry to be held into the events.

MCD said it is conducting its own review of the events surrounding the concert and will publish it soon.

The Nal

About ****ing time!

run_Forrest_run

MCD are getting plenty of flack for this, and perhaps rightly so but this report published yesterday screams of the Gardai pointing the finger and trying to put all the blame on the promoter.
The Gardai failed to execute their job properly too but they will drag up the usual lame response like "we don't have enough resources" rubbish.

The Nal

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

MCD are getting plenty of flack for this, and perhaps rightly so but this report published yesterday screams of the Gardai pointing the finger and trying to put all the blame on the promoter.
The Gardai failed to execute their job properly too but they will drag up the usual lame response like "we don't have enough resources" rubbish.

They met the legal requirement. Its up to the promoter to pay the filth extra cash for more resources.

bren2001

The Nal wrote: »

They met the legal requirement. Its up to the promoter to pay the filth extra cash for more resources.

and MCD met their legal requirement. They only need 364 security staff. MCD are not the only people to blame in this.

argentum

Funny enough the blame seems to be moving towards MCD which is not a total surprise as the Gardai only seem to want praise when something goes right.MCD were not responsible for anything that happened outside the first line of barriers that customers had to go through to get in ,that was the responsibility of the Gardai.
I still think the blame lies with the scum that actually went to the concert that caused all the trouble and MCD didn't raise them
I wonder what will happen now with the gigs in Marley park as the last time FatBoy Slim played there the place was full of drunk kids pissing and puking all over the place

The Nal

bren2001 wrote: »

and MCD met their legal requirement. They only need 364 security staff. MCD are not the only people to blame in this.

The legal requirement is x amount of Gardai for x amount of attendees. The law doesnt take into account the demographics of people who may be attending. So its the same law for SHM or Daniel O'Donnell.

MCD knew what sort of crowd would attend SHM. Its their responsibility as the promoter to make a judgement on it. Not the filth. The Gardai aren't music promoters or music experts. They fulfill the legal requirement and after that they have to be advised/paid to involve themselves further.

You're right though, MCD aren't the only people to blame. Not at all. The little knackers who went to the gig are to blame. The mindless, soulless, spiritless, vacant ****e of society - idiots, pissed up, listening to terrible "music".

Macy0161

MCD are getting off lightly imo. The general media, and politicians, are still running with everything was okay for the Roses and on the Sunday night, when that wasn't my experience about the organisation (for the Roses at least).

Marty McFly

Macy0161 wrote: »

MCD are getting off lightly imo. The general media, and politicians, are still running with everything was okay for the Roses and on the Sunday night, when that wasn't my experience about the organisation (for the Roses at least).

What was wrong with organisation for the Roses? I was at it and had no problem. A bit of walking had to be done yes but being able bodied it didnt bother me.

The problem with SHM was the type of crowd it brought in which the Garda report hints at but obviouly cant come out ant blatantly say it for fear offending sensitive types.

I dont mind decent dance music ( not that SHM are decent) but it does always draw the wrong kind of crowd.

jack presley

The Nal wrote: »

MCD knew what sort of crowd would attend SHM. Its their responsibility as the promoter to make a judgement on it. Not the filth. The Gardai aren't music promoters or music experts.

This concert had scumbag convention written all over it from day 1 so to say its not the Gardai's responsibility to know what kind if crowd would be attending because they are not 'music experts' is laughable.

Larbre34

Marty McFly wrote: »

What was wrong with organisation for the Roses? I was at it and had no problem. A bit of walking had to be done yes but being able bodied it didnt bother me.

The problem with SHM was the type of crowd it brought in which the Garda report hints at but obviouly cant come out ant blatantly say it for fear offending sensitive types.

I dont mind decent dance music ( not that SHM are decent) but it does always draw the wrong kind of crowd.

The beer accommodations and the state of the grounds. I know it rained inordinately, but there should be contingency for worst case scenarios when getting concerts licenced. A few feckie bits of straw dont cut it.

Also there were plenty of small scuffles with drunk teenies throwing slaps.

Marty McFly

Larbre34 wrote: »

The beer accommodations and the state of the grounds. I know it rained inordinately, but there should be contingency for worst case scenarios when getting concerts licenced. A few feckie bits of straw dont cut it.

Also there were plenty of small scuffles with drunk teenies throwing slaps.

Beer accomdations are always poor at outdoor concerts and always will be, I was the Roses in Heaton Park and can tell you it was much worse there. The only way forward at outdoor concerts if you want to drink is to smuggle drink in.

As regards the ground its par for the coarse when you go to an outdoor gig look at any outdoor festival or concert acrosss Europe its the same when it rains, they done more in Phoenix Park that they did in Heaton Park to compensate for it.

I think people are overly fussy when it comes to these things, when you go to an outdoor concert you should know what to expect and instead of letting them weather, bars effect your experience enjoy what you went for, for all the comforst the likes of the 02 offers any indoor venue will never match the atmosphere of an outdoor concert.

As for scuffles I didnt see one or any trouble at it, but probably was a few same way youd see some nearly every sat night in town at some point I can handle that but people getting stabbed is a different story, or fights breaking out all around me.

The Nal

jack presley wrote: »

This concert had scumbag convention written all over it from day 1 so to say its not the Gardai's responsibility to know what kind if crowd would be attending because they are not 'music experts' is laughable.

Who pays the extra Gardai in that case then? You and me via our taxes? I wouldn't be happy with that. The promoter has to pay for any additional police. Same all over the world, for any event. the general publics money should not (and indeed does not) contribute to paying for extra security for private companies like MCD.

Why would we pay for that?

Macy0161

Marty McFly wrote: »

What was wrong with organisation for the Roses? I was at it and had no problem. A bit of walking had to be done yes but being able bodied it didnt bother me.

People literally unable to stand up because of being that drunk/ stoned. I saw several scuffles inside. No sign of security to deal with either.

There was also a lack of security and proper directions on exit. Labelled gates not actually opening. There was a lack of lighting and security personnel on the exit route I was on, which was an incident waiting to happen imo. Thousands were literally dumped out, and then effectively left to fend for themselves in the Park.

The assumption appears to be because nothing bad did happen, that everything was hunky dory.

Marty McFly

Macy0161 wrote: »

People literally unable to stand up because of being that drunk/ stoned. I saw several scuffles inside. No sign of security to deal with either.

There was also a lack of security and proper directions on exit. Labelled gates not actually opening. There was a lack of lighting and security personnel on the exit route I was on, which was an incident waiting to happen imo. Thousands were literally dumped out, and then effectively left to fend for themselves in the Park.

The assumption appears to be because nothing bad did happen, that everything was hunky dory.

People being that drunk they were falling over damn you MCD would you not ring there mothers to pick them up, thats a daly occurance in Irish pubs and clubs what made you think it would be different at a concert?

As for for security once your outside the venue that is not there responsibility really, same thing happens at the 02, RDS after a concert thousands dumped outside to fend for themselves.

As for gates not being open, poor lighting etc that could fall on the gards really if you wanted to push it. But once again I had no problem finding my way out.

Macy0161

Marty McFly wrote: »

People being that drunk they were falling over damn you MCD would you not ring there mothers to pick them up, thats a daly occurance in Irish pubs and clubs what made you think it would be different at a concert?

As for for security once your outside the venue that is not there responsibility really, same thing happens at the 02, RDS after a concert thousands dumped outside to fend for themselves.

As for gates not being open, poor lighting etc that could fall on the gards really if you wanted to push it. But once again I had no problem finding my way out.

I would expect security or the landlord to deal with someone who was unable to stand up in a pub or club, especially if they were then causing issues for other punters. I'm not talking about people a little bit tipsy.

Are you really comparing exiting a venue onto a city street with the middle of the Park? You've mentioned Heaton Park, well on the night I was there, there was security and lighting on the exit routes - not ideal, but multiples better than the experience of Phoenix Park.

I'm talking about venue gates, not Park gates, so was a security issue. It should be a condition of the licence for concerts to address lighting and security on the exit routes, but that's typical of Irish business really. Won't do the right thing, unless forced to - and if in the meantime something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault. They made enough money from the gigs to put up a few lights powered by generators.

Marty McFly

Macy0161 wrote: »

I would expect security or the landlord to deal with someone who was unable to stand up in a pub or club, especially if they were then causing issues for other punters. I'm not talking about people a little bit tipsy.

Are you really comparing exiting a venue onto a city street with the middle of the Park? You've mentioned Heaton Park, well on the night I was there, there was security and lighting on the exit routes - not ideal, but multiples better than the experience of Phoenix Park.

I'm talking about venue gates, not Park gates, so was a security issue. It should be a condition of the licence for concerts to address lighting and security on the exit routes, but that's typical of Irish business really. Won't do the right thing, unless forced to - and if in the meantime something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault. They made enough money from the gigs to put up a few lights powered by generators.

Yes but I have seen people legless drunk in pubs and clubs and not being thrown out and in them your talking a crowd of maybe a few hundred people, try 45,000 people in order to see every person who that drunk or who gets involved in a scuffle you would be talking about so much security that it just would not be viable to run event like that as a business you cant have unrealistic expectations. Blaming it on MCD solely is an easy scapegoat, The Gards are responsible for public safety once outside the venue, the venue wasnt the whole of the Phoenix Park.

Well I had no problem exiting from venues gates either, yes there was security on the exit routes along the way out of Heaton Park but thats akin to Slane you cannot compare either of those venues to Phoenix Park.

Macy0161

Marty McFly wrote: »

Macy0161 wrote: »

I would expect security or the landlord to deal with someone who was unable to stand up in a pub or club, especially if they were then causing issues for other punters. I'm not talking about people a little bit tipsy.

Are you really comparing exiting a venue onto a city street with the middle of the Park? You've mentioned Heaton Park, well on the night I was there, there was security and lighting on the exit routes - not ideal, but multiples better than the experience of Phoenix Park.

I'm talking about venue gates, not Park gates, so was a security issue. It should be a condition of the licence for concerts to address lighting and security on the exit routes, but that's typical of Irish business really. Won't do the right thing, unless forced to - and if in the meantime something goes wrong, it's someone else's fault. They made enough money from the gigs to put up a few lights powered by generators.

Yes but I have seen people legless drunk in pubs and clubs and not being thrown out and in them your talking a crowd of maybe a few hundred people, try 45,000 people in order to see every person who that drunk or who gets involved in a scuffle you would be talking about so much security that it just would not be viable to run event like that as a business you cant have unrealistic expectations. Blaming it on MCD solely is an easy scapegoat, The Gards are responsible for public safety once outside the venue, the venue wasnt the whole of the Phoenix Park.

Well I had no problem exiting from venues gates either, yes there was security on the exit routes along the way out of Heaton Park but thats akin to Slane you cannot compare either of those venues to Phoenix Park.

Heaton park is another large urban park, in no way comparable to slane. I don't blame only mcd - these things should be written into the licence conditions. however i obviously have much higher expectations, for substantial ticket prices, than you. i won't be back at an mcd gig in the park

Marty McFly

Macy0161 wrote: »

Heaton park is another large urban park, in no way comparable to slane. I don't blame only mcd - these things should be written into the licence conditions. however i obviously have much higher expectations, for substantial ticket prices, than you. i won't be back at an mcd gig in the park

Yes it is a large urban park but in now way comparable to the Phoenix Park, there was no acces via cars or main roads etc going throguht the middle of it therefore its more a slane like venue. You must do but I gather you'd prob be the type who only ever be happy at an indoor venue so maybe best of sticking to them.

I went to see a band who put on a great performance with a electric feel in the audience who enoyed every last second of it, for me when I go to a concert that if first and foremost and nothing else will dampen the experience for me nit picking and the smaller details and remembeing ti for all the wrong reasons is up to each individiual.

cometogether

From what I can tell the problem seems to lie with the crowd that follows SHM rather than the whole organisation of the gigs.

strangel00p

Macy0161 wrote: »

MCD are getting off lightly imo. The general media, and politicians, are still running with everything was okay for the Roses and on the Sunday night, when that wasn't my experience about the organisation (for the Roses at least).

agreed, I saw a fair amount of trouble at the roses concert. 45000 people in a field, lots of alcohol taken and not enough security....I felt safer at heaton park, which is saying something.

SantryRed

cometogether wrote: »

From what I can tell the problem seems to lie with the crowd that follows SHM rather than the whole organisation of the gigs.

Not at all. It was brutally organised. Leaving after the Snow Patrol gig was a joke.

cometogether

SantryRed wrote: »

Not at all. It was brutally organised. Leaving after the Snow Patrol gig was a joke.

Yes at all. I was at the Stone Roses gig, I didn't see one fight, nobody passed out drunk, there was literally no arrests either. You telling me that's just a coincidence?

R P McMurphy

cometogether wrote: »

Yes at all. I was at the Stone Roses gig, I didn't see one fight, nobody passed out drunk, there was literally no arrests either. You telling me that's just a coincidence?

I saw very little trouble at the stone roses as well. Just one fella that got a slap and he deserved it because he was throwing mud around the place and got a small slap for his troubles which put the manners on him and peace was restored. Overall was a great atmosphere where I was standing anyway.

cometogether

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I saw very little trouble at the stone roses as well. Just one fella that got a slap and he deserved it because he was throwing mud around the place and got a small slap for his troubles which put the manners on him and peace was restored. Overall was a great atmosphere where I was standing anyway.

Same here, everyone seemed to be up for a good time

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

From what I can tell the problem seems to lie with the crowd that follows SHM rather than the whole organisation of the gigs.

cometogether wrote: »

Yes at all. I was at the Stone Roses gig, I didn't see one fight, nobody passed out drunk, there was literally no arrests either. You telling me that's just a coincidence?

You may not have seen it but it still happened. to quote the official Gardai statement as posted on the MCD site here:

On the 07th July, total security personnel present was 511 and there were in excess of 145 Gardai on duty. Regrettably a number of incidents occurred resulting in 33 arrests which led to 70 charges being preferred before the courts (public order, drunkenness and drug related offences). In total over the 3 nights there were 58 arrests and in excess of 100 charges preferred before the courts.

While the majority of the arrests were on the 7th(SHM) there was obvious reason to arrest the other 25 drunk and disorderly people that went to the other gigs. Reading through this thread I've noticed a lot of people seem to have forgotten very quickly that with any festival there comes violence, just look back on Oxegen in 2011 for example when there were 90 arrests along with the five teenagers that received slash wounds because of a fight on the blue site. Now Oxegen is a festival that provides people with a mixed listening experience, but by your logic we should blame the Beyonce and Coldplay fans..

Personally I went to the Phoenix Park on the 7th and 8th and the only violence I seen was between two "ladies" who were "escorted" out of the crowd by the security and that was on the 8th right before Florence came on.

The reality is when you have a crowd that large you're not gonna end up with 45,000 people that are teetotal, Some will drink, do drugs, start fights without reason and sadly last but not least some people will bring weapons to these gigs. This has nothing to do with the music that they are listening to, This is just the world we live in today, everyone comes from a different backgrounds and in some cases participating in disorderly conduct/Anti-social behavior is normal.

As I've mentioned before in this thread I really don't think there was anything else that could have been done, If MCD get more security/gardai at these types of events they're still stuck in the same situation of hunting a needle in a haystack, It only takes one person to lose it and start throwing punches or stabbing people for an event to receive a stigma and end up all over the news.

cometogether

DC10555 wrote: »

You may not have seen it but it still happened. to quote the official Gardai statement as posted on the MCD site here:

On the 07th July, total security personnel present was 511 and there were in excess of 145 Gardai on duty. Regrettably a number of incidents occurred resulting in 33 arrests which led to 70 charges being preferred before the courts (public order, drunkenness and drug related offences). In total over the 3 nights there were 58 arrests and in excess of 100 charges preferred before the courts.

While the majority of the arrests were on the 7th(SHM) there was obvious reason to arrest the other 25 drunk and disorderly people that went to the other gigs. Reading through this thread I've noticed a lot of people seem to have forgotten very quickly that with any festival there comes violence, just look back on Oxegen in 2011 for example when there were 90 arrests along with the five teenagers that received slash wounds because of a fight on the blue site. Now Oxegen is a festival that provides people with a mixed listening experience, but by your logic we should blame the Beyonce and Coldplay fans..

Personally I went to the Phoenix Park on the 7th and 8th and the only violence I seen was between two "ladies" who were "escorted" out of the crowd by the security and that was on the 8th right before Florence came on.

The reality is when you have a crowd that large you're not gonna end up with 45,000 people that are teetotal, Some will drink, do drugs, start fights without reason and sadly last but not least some people will bring weapons to these gigs. This has nothing to do with the music that they are listening to, This is just the world we live in today, everyone comes from a different backgrounds and in some cases participating in disorderly conduct/Anti-social behavior is normal.

As I've mentioned before in this thread I really don't think there was anything else that could have been done, If MCD get more security/gardai at these types of events they're still stuck in the same situation of hunting a needle in a haystack, It only takes one person to lose it and start throwing punches or stabbing people for an event to receive a stigma and end up all over the news.

I'm sure I saw somewhere that there were no arrests at the Roses gigs.

As for the bit in bold, what nonsense. The extreme vast majority of the violence at those gigs took place at one event, which was the SHM gig. You trying to tell me that's a coincidence? People seemed to enjoy the other two concerts without stabbing one another.

Ash.J.Williams

cometogether wrote: »

I'm sure I saw somewhere that there were no arrests at the Roses gigs.

As for the bit in bold, what nonsense. The extreme vast majority of the violence at those gigs took place at one event, which was the SHM gig. You trying to tell me that's a coincidence? People seemed to enjoy the other two concerts without stabbing one another.

Bit of a generalisation there about stabbing one another! The stabbings where carried out by criminals, that should not have been allowed in. The guy that was arrested had 22 convictions!

cometogether

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Bit of a generalisation there about stabbing one another! The stabbings where carried out by criminals, that should not have been allowed in. The guy that was arrested had 22 convictions!

Absolutely, he shouldn't. And he certainly shouldn't have been released on bail either. But what I'm trying to get at is there have been reports of fights erupting all over the place that day, constantly. I've even heard of people who actually left before SHM came on, it was that bad. It wasn't like that for the other two gigs. In the same venue. Over the same weekend. Why is that?

kippy

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Bit of a generalisation there about stabbing one another! The stabbings where carried out by criminals, that should not have been allowed in. The guy that was arrested had 22 convictions!

Well, thats the cruz of it isn't it?
If the legal/prison system was anywhere near up to it in this country this guy would have been locked up for live after reacing his tenth (or less) conviction.
While security at the concert doesnt appear to have been upto scratch and the type of music may have attracted a few of these lowlifes, lowlifes can be anywhere at any time.
This is not the first time this year that a personw with multiple previous convictions has cause some serious harm to society and indeed the populace as a whole. Thousands and thousands of people attended these gigs and didnt cause a bit of trouble yet they and others who wish to attend gigs in the future will be punished as a result of the actions of a few. A few who shouldnt have been on the streets in the first place.
It's a symptom of the wider problems and issues in our society that the many are punished for the crimes of the few.........