6 Phoenix Park Concerts 2012

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

I'm sure I saw somewhere that there were no arrests at the Roses gigs.

As for the bit in bold, what nonsense. The extreme vast majority of the violence at those gigs took place at one event, which was the SHM gig. You trying to tell me that's a coincidence? People seemed to enjoy the other two concerts without stabbing one another.

I didn't drink on the night, I don't do drugs, I've worked my entire life and I'm far from the anti social scum that people seem to be associating with a crowd that was 45K strong and as I've already shown in my previous post with any large gathering of people for a festival(e.g Oxegen 2011) there will be trouble. I just wish people wouldn't place a stereotype and punish people like myself due to the carnage that a handful of people went out and caused. Blaming it on the music is ridiculous, you don't listen to heavy metal or screamo and immediately want to trash up a place, you don't listen to reggae music and have a sudden urge to roll up a joint, these issues go deeper for the people involved and sadly that issue will always be overlooked.

This is a question to yourself and all of the fans that attended the other gigs that are pointing fingers at the SHM crowd: If the same type of behavior went down at the Stone Roses/Florence & Snow Patrol would you feel that it's fair to blame and punish the entire crowd for what happened based upon the behavior of a small group of trouble makers that attended the same venue as you?

cometogether

DC10555 wrote: »

I didn't drink on the night, I don't do drugs, I've worked my entire life and I'm far from the anti social scum that people seem to be associating with a crowd that was 45K strong and as I've already shown in my previous post with any large gathering of people for a festival(e.g Oxegen 2011) there will be trouble. I just wish people wouldn't place a stereotype and punish people like myself due to the carnage that a handful of people went out and caused. Blaming it on the music is ridiculous, you don't listen to heavy metal or screamo and immediately want to trash up a place, you don't listen to reggae music and have a sudden urge to roll up a joint, these issues go deeper for the people involved and sadly that issue will always be overlooked.

This is a question to yourself and all of the fans that attended the other gigs that are pointing fingers at the SHM crowd: If the same type of behavior went down at the Stone Roses/Florence & Snow Patrol would you feel that it's fair to blame and punish the entire crowd for what happened based upon the behavior of a small group of trouble makers that attended the same venue as you?

I'm not claiming that you are, nor am I claiming that all SHM fans are scum. However, there is a scumbag element amongst their fanbase. You have to recognise the fact that the carnage witness at the gig simply was not there at the other gigs. Nobody is blaming the entire crowd either, don't know where you're getting that from.

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

I'm not claiming that you are, nor am I claiming that all SHM fans are scum. However, there is a scumbag element amongst their fanbase. You have to recognise the fact that the carnage witness at the gig simply was not there at the other gigs. Nobody is blaming the entire crowd either, don't know where you're getting that from.

cometogether wrote: »

From what I can tell the problem seems to lie with the crowd that follows SHM rather than the whole organisation of the gigs.

Hmm..

Like I've said there will be anti social behavior at all of these events, no event will ever go 100% perfect and it only takes that one needle in the haystack to ruin someone elses day, even if they were to place a 50ft fence around the venue, airport style security and sniffer dogs on the way in there will always be some sort of mischief.

cometogether

DC10555 wrote: »

Hmm..

Like I've said there will be anti social behavior at all of these events, no event will ever go 100% perfect and it only takes that one needle in the haystack to ruin someone elses day, even if they were to place a 50ft fence around the venue, airport style security and sniffer dogs on the way in there will always be some sort of mischief.

Well I admit that my first post was poorly phrased. Yes, but you are ignoring the facts. There was probably anti-social behaviour at the Roses gig, although none that I saw, but there was no arrests. No stabbings or slashing. No drug overdoses. It was not one person that caused all of that carnage at the SHM gig.

Ash.J.Williams

cometogether wrote: »

Well I admit that my first post was poorly phrased. Yes, but you are ignoring the facts. There was probably anti-social behaviour at the Roses gig, although none that I saw, but there was no arrests. No stabbings or slashing. No drug overdoses. It was not one person that caused all of that carnage at the SHM gig.

There was plenty of drugs at the roses gig, it's just they were being taken by people in their 30's who have a lot of experience! .

cometogether

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

There was plenty of drugs at the roses gig, it's just they were being taken by people in their 30's who have a lot of experience! .

Yeah, there were lots of people smoking joints. And taking pills. Not a whole lot wrong with that when you know how to take them without turning into a moron. It wasn't like there were people shoving pills into their mouths and washing them down with a shoulder of vodka or anything like that.

bren2001

cometogether wrote: »

Yeah, there were lots of people smoking joints. And taking pills. Not a whole lot wrong with that when you know how to take them without turning into a moron. It wasn't like there were people shoving pills into their mouths and washing them down with a shoulder of vodka or anything like that.

You lost me there...

cometogether

bren2001 wrote: »

You lost me there...

If people can use recreational drugs in a responsible manner than its not that big a deal tbh. I also see you conveniently didn't highlight the whole sentence.

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

Well I admit that my first post was poorly phrased. Yes, but you are ignoring the facts. There was probably anti-social behaviour at the Roses gig, although none that I saw, but there was no arrests. No stabbings or slashing. No drug overdoses. It was not one person that caused all of that carnage at the SHM gig.

"but there was no arrests."
I've already linked you the statement from the Gardai which stated there there were a total 25 arrests at the other gigs.

"No drug overdoses"
There may have been no overdoses but I can guarantee you there was a drug presence at the gig.

Granted there were no stabbings but as I've already mentioned in another post we can't blame this on the music when stabbings have happened at other venues such as Oxegen 2011, I've come face to face with someone who had a knife in the Oxegen car park back in 2010, thankfully they just sliced my wrist band and after making a run to the stewards they were removed from the venue itself. These issues go deeper than what the person listens to, If people are going out to cause a fight/harm they will find a way to do it.

cometogether

DC10555 wrote: »

"but there was no arrests."
I've already linked you the statement from the Gardai which stated there there were a total 25 arrests at the other gigs.

"No drug overdoses"
There may have been no overdoses but I can guarantee you there was a drug presence at the gig.

Granted there were no stabbings but as I've already mentioned in another post we can't blame this on the music when stabbings have happened at other venues such as Oxegen 2011, I've come face to face with someone who had a knife in the Oxegen car park back in 2010, thankfully they just sliced my wrist band and after making a run to the stewards they were removed from the venue itself. These issues go deeper than what the person listens to, If people are going out to cause a fight/harm they will find a way to do it.

Fair enough, I'm sure I saw a story in which the Gardai praised the Roses crowd because there were no arrests, but I may have been mistaken. I've already addressed the drugs issue in an above post. Yes I know what you are repeatedly saying, but what I'm trying to get across is why did the vast majority of all of this just so happen to occur at one gig?

bren2001

cometogether wrote: »

If people can use recreational drugs in a responsible manner than its not that big a deal tbh. I also see you conveniently didn't highlight the whole sentence.

I "conveniently" didn't highlight the whole sentence because I didn't see the need. No form of drug use is ok, if people do it at home, fine, but at a public event then no, recreational drug use is not ok. There is a reason it's illegal.

cometogether

bren2001 wrote: »

I "conveniently" didn't highlight the whole sentence because I didn't see the need. No form of drug use is ok, if people do it at home, fine, but at a public event then no, recreational drug use is not ok. There is a reason it's illegal.

Perhaps you should stay at home from gigs then, in case the sight of somebody sparking up a spliff damages your moral character. Honest to god, why would it bother you if it doesn't affect you?

Ash.J.Williams

bren2001 wrote: »

I "conveniently" didn't highlight the whole sentence because I didn't see the need. No form of drug use is ok, if people do it at home, fine, but at a public event then no, recreational drug use is not ok. There is a reason it's illegal.

and that reason is?

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

Yeah, there were lots of people smoking joints. And taking pills. Not a whole lot wrong with that when you know how to take them without turning into a moron. It wasn't like there were people shoving pills into their mouths and washing them down with a shoulder of vodka or anything like that.

While I don't condone drug use due to the long term effects that many of these substances can have on someone, this is one remark that I will agree with you on, Over the years I've known people who have used drugs without issues and as you mentioned it's the people who wash them down in cocktails that will give them a bad name, The same applies for legal drugs such as alcohol, while the majority of people out there can enjoy a drink and will understand their limits it's the "boozies" that will end up in the headlines, just like how the people who enjoyed their time at the Phoenix park events didn't end up in the news, It was only the complaints that got coverage.

cometogether wrote: »

Fair enough, I'm sure I saw a story in which the Gardai praised the Roses crowd because there were no arrests, but I may have been mistaken. I've already addressed the drugs issue in an above post. Yes I know what you are repeatedly saying, but what I'm trying to get across is why did the vast majority of all of this just so happen to occur at one gig?

I really have no clue as to why the majority of the trouble happened at one gig, Maybe it's an age thing? I mean they attract a fan base that ranges from people in their teens to those in their 30's, It could be just that generation of people who simple "don't care" .. Maybe it wasn't the headliners that brought out the trouble makers, It could have easily been the Snoop Dogg, Tinie Tempah, Calvin Harris or Original Rude boys fans that caused the trouble? or maybe people were just pissy because they had to stand in the mud, I don't think we will ever know to be honest..

However, what I do know is that there was fighting at all 3 events based upon the reports from the Gardai and the one fight I seen at Snow Patrol/Florence. I also know that there was underage drinking at all 3 events, Teenagers will sneak it in anyway they can the girls (14-16?) in front of me had snuck what I can only guess was Vodka into the venue via nail polish bottles that were hidden in their wellies, they also ended up absolutely out of it wasted by the time Flo came on, But all of this comes hand in hand with any large gathering of people for a music festival..

cometogether

DC10555 wrote: »

While I don't condone drug use due to the long term effects that many of these substances can have on someone, this is one remark that I will agree with you on, Over the years I've known people who have used drugs without issues and as you mentioned it's the people who wash them down in cocktails that will give them a bad name, The same applies for legal drugs such as alcohol, while the majority of people out there can enjoy a drink and will understand their limits it's the "boozies" that will end up in the headlines, just like how the people who enjoyed their time at the Phoenix park events didn't end up in the news, It was only the complaints that got coverage.



I really have no clue as to why the majority of the trouble happened at one gig, Maybe it's an age thing? I mean they attract a fan base that ranges from people in their teens to those in their 30's, It could be just that generation of people who simple "don't care" .. Maybe it wasn't the headliners that brought out the trouble makers, It could have easily been the Snoop Dogg, Tinie Tempah, Calvin Harris or Original Rude boys fans that caused the trouble? or maybe people were just pissy because they had to stand in the mud, I don't think we will ever know to be honest..

However, what I do know is that there was fighting at all 3 events based upon the reports from the Gardai and the one fight I seen at Snow Patrol/Florence. I also know that there was underage drinking at all 3 events, Teenagers will sneak it in anyway they can the girls (14-16?) in front of me had snuck what I can only guess was Vodka into the venue via nail polish bottles that were hidden in their wellies, they also ended up absolutely out of it wasted by the time Flo came on, But all of this comes hand in hand with any large gathering of people for a music festival..

I'm not sure you can blame the age bracket too much either. Surely the average age at the SHM gig can't have been too different from the Snow Patrol gig? Yet the same violence just wasn't there.

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

I'm not sure you can blame the age bracket too much either. Surely the average age at the SHM gig can't have been too different from the Snow Patrol gig? Yet the same violence just wasn't there.

I really don't know, But I will stand by the fact that the music in itself has nothing to do with it, there have been many events across the world with varying genres of music where stabbings and shootings have occurred and there have also been other "electronic" music based festivals that have gone off without any of this sort of violence (EDC (90K people)/Ultra Music). Like I said it's down to the handful of people in question, the needles in the haystack.

cometogether

DC10555 wrote: »

I really don't know, But I will stand by the fact that the music in itself has nothing to do with it, there have been many events across the world with varying genres of music where stabbings and shootings have occurred and there have also been other "electronic" music based festivals that have gone off without any of this sort of violence (EDC (90K people)/Ultra Music). Like I said it's down to the handful of people in question, the needles in the haystack.

You can't just say the music has nothing to do with it, its clear that either this particular act or musical genre has a sinister element in its following.

Ash.J.Williams

cometogether wrote: »

You can't just say the music has nothing to do with it, its clear that either this particular act or musical genre has a sinister element in its following.

probably not throughout Europe, but you may have a point about the UK and Ireland...

however if SHM were playing their own gig in a club in dublin with the usual door policies, i would guarantee no trouble. 60,000 people in dublin city center with an age demographic of 15-25 is begging for trouble.

Perhaps an idea to try would be to decrease the price of drink in the venue, have more bars, and deny entry to people with "dhrink taaaken"

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

You can't just say the music has nothing to do with it, its clear that either this particular act or musical genre has a sinister element in its following.

Actually I can and I'm pretty sure I just did. That's my opinion on the matter regardless of if you agree or not. I mean it's obvious you dislike SHM, it maybe due to their style of music I really don't care why to be honest, each to their own as the saying goes. Personally I'm not a fan of the Stone Roses, but If the same conduct went down at the Roses gig or any other gig for that matter I'd never sit here and tell someone it was the music that influenced the people in the way they acted, If people are that influenced by music then they simply have no self control and they need to seek psychological help so that when they're sitting in a coffee shop or on the bus they don't feel the need to stab someone because SHM came on the radio.

cometogether

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

probably not throughout Europe, but you may have a point about the UK and Ireland...

however if SHM were playing their own gig in a club in dublin with the usual door policies, i would guarantee no trouble. 60,000 people in dublin city center with an age demographic of 15-25 is begging for trouble.

Perhaps an idea to try would be to decrease the price of drink in the venue, have more bars, and deny entry to people with "dhrink taaaken"

Yeah I guess that could have something to do with it, I'm not too sure though.

DC10555 wrote: »

Actually I can and I'm pretty sure I just did. That's my opinion on the matter regardless of if you agree or not. I mean it's obvious you dislike SHM, it maybe due to their style of music I really don't care why to be honest, each to their own as the saying goes. Personally I'm not a fan of the Stone Roses, but If the same conduct went down at the Roses gig or any other gig for that matter I'd never sit here and tell someone it was the music that influenced the people in the way they acted, If people are that influenced by music then they simply have no self control and they need to seek psychological help so that when they're sitting in a coffee shop or on the bus they don't feel the need to stab someone because SHM came on the radio.

I don't dislike SHM. I don't like them, but I don't particularly dislike them. I don't feel anything about them. If that sort of conduct went on at the Roses concert, I, as a massive Roses fan, would be willing to admit that there was a sinister element in the fanbase.

EyesClosed

DC10555 wrote: »

Actually I can and I'm pretty sure I just did. That's my opinion on the matter regardless of if you agree or not. I mean it's obvious you dislike SHM, it maybe due to their style of music I really don't care why to be honest, each to their own as the saying goes. Personally I'm not a fan of the Stone Roses, but If the same conduct went down at the Roses gig or any other gig for that matter I'd never sit here and tell someone it was the music that influenced the people in the way they acted, If people are that influenced by music then they simply have no self control and they need to seek psychological help so that when they're sitting in a coffee shop or on the bus they don't feel the need to stab someone because SHM came on the radio.

My opinion would be that it's by no means the bands fault, but their music does draw a bad element.
For example UB40 have a horrible following and for some reason their music draws a violent crowd. (I know this from working at of the their shows, and being told by security that their shows always draw the same type of crowd) SHM in this country will draw young and violent people, I am not saying all their fans are like this, but that small few are the ones that cause the problems.
Is it because the music is more dance orientated and that's what the hear in clubs, and associate with drink and drugs and nights out? I am not sure.
Yes you are going to get drugs and drink at every show, so yes you will have some arrests, people being to drunk etc, but that level of stabbing and violence will always be associated with the small few, who sadly will attend the dance or very popular music shows, such as SHM.

cometogether

EyesClosed wrote: »

My opinion would be that it's by no means the bands fault, but their music does draw a bad element.
For example UB40 have a horrible following and for some reason their music draws a violent crowd. (I know this from working at of the their shows, and being told by security that their shows always draw the same type of crowd) SHM in this country will draw young and violent people, I am not saying all their fans are like this, but that small few are the ones that cause the problems.
Is it because the music is more dance orientated and that's what the hear in clubs, and associate with drink and drugs and nights out? I am not sure.
Yes you are going to get drugs and drink at every show, so yes you will have some arrests, people being to drunk etc, but that level of stabbing and violence will always be associated with the small few, who sadly will attend the dance or very popular music shows, such as SHM.

Spot on

jack presley

While not all dance music fans are scumbags and shouldn't be labelled as such, the majority of scumbags are dance music fans

EyesClosed

jack presley wrote: »

While not all dance music fans are scumbags and shouldn't be labelled as such, the majority of scumbags are dance music fans

Exactly, so no dance music is not the problem and should not be banned that's just insane.
I used to work scanning tickets at gigs, once someone had a ticket and it scanned then they where in, no matter how hammered they where.
That I think is a problem, people should not be allowed to enter if they are to drunk and already fighting in the queue, same as any pub/club

DC10555

cometogether wrote: »

I don't dislike SHM. I don't like them, but I don't particularly dislike them. I don't feel anything about them. If that sort of conduct went on at the Roses concert, I, as a massive Roses fan, would be willing to admit that there was a sinister element in the fanbase.

yea that was my mistake I read your comment as "genre has a sinister element in it" instead of "genre has a sinister element in it's following" I thought you were saying that electronic music itself was sinister, Major fail on my part I was in the rush out the door for lunch

I agree that dance music would probably draw a larger "scum bag" especially within Ireland, but I just don't understand why it has to be this way when other countries can have electronic events go off without a hitch, I mean is the problem within our society? Or how our legal system works and how if someone does start a fight or gets arrested for drug possession/disorderly conduct they seem to be just getting a slap on the wrist for it, I mean the guy who did the knifing shouldn't have been even on the street if he already had 22 convictions..

I'm really interested to see how things are handled at the David Guetta gig at Marley Park on the 24th, I think that will be the decider for dance events like this in Ireland which sucks big time for a genuine fan like myself and the many others that genuinely enjoy the music without the need for any substance/violence.

cometogether

DC10555 wrote: »

yea that was my mistake I read your comment as "genre has a sinister element in it" instead of "genre has a sinister element in it's following" I thought you were saying that electronic music itself was sinister, Major fail on my part I was in the rush out the door for lunch

I agree that dance music would probably draw a larger "scum bag" especially within Ireland, but I just don't understand why it has to be this way when other countries can have electronic events go off without a hitch, I mean is the problem within our society? Or how our legal system works and how if someone does start a fight or gets arrested for drug possession/disorderly conduct they seem to be just getting a slap on the wrist for it, I mean the guy who did the knifing shouldn't have been even on the street if he already had 22 convictions..

I'm really interested to see how things are handled at the David Guetta gig at Marley Park on the 24th, I think that will be the decider for dance events like this in Ireland which sucks big time for a genuine fan like myself and the many others that genuinely enjoy the music without the need for any substance/violence.

I don't know why either, it really is a mystery! I reckon that there will be incredible security at that gig, otherwise it will be absolute carnage.

jack presley

The problem with enforcing the no drunks allowed in policy is that you'll have thousands of people left outside with no where to go which will possibly have worse consequences

cometogether

jack presley wrote: »

The problem with enforcing the no drunks allowed in policy is that you'll have thousands of people left outside with no where to go which will possibly have worse consequences

Yeah that is quite true, they could get aggressive and rush the gates, people could get killed. A larger Garda presence on the avenue leading into the concert area could have helped.

Ash.J.Williams

cometogether wrote: »

Yeah that is quite true, they could get aggressive and rush the gates, people could get killed. A larger Garda presence on the avenue leading into the concert area could have helped.

It was lunacy giving that amount of people the entire park to feck around before the gig.

jack presley

cometogether wrote: »

jack presley wrote: »

The problem with enforcing the no drunks allowed in policy is that you'll have thousands of people left outside with no where to go which will possibly have worse consequences

Yeah that is quite true, they could get aggressive and rush the gates, people could get killed. A larger Garda presence on the avenue leading into the concert area could have helped.

Both times I've been to gigs at Marley Park the entrance in I took was down a narrow tree lined lane way that boxes you in and it takes forever to get along it and into the gig. And a lot of people were hammered. Now if these don't get it in, will they be pushed back along the same route meeting others coming the other way?