pulling the bullet

browning 12 bore

hello there lads i said i put this here with the target lads
i like doing the odd targets now and again and also am a deer and fox hunter very much but starting to notice that i pulling my bullets on the target and so on i wonder is it me or is my triiger very stiff cuase noramlly i get lads to set my gun and they get 3 hole group no prob so i know its not the gun but ME any ideas would be ostly aprciated
thanks again

Tackleberrywho

browning 12 bore wrote: »

hello there lads i said i put this here with the target lads
i like doing the odd targets now and again and also am a deer and fox hunter very much but starting to notice that i pulling my bullets on the target and so on i wonder is it me or is my triiger very stiff cuase noramlly i get lads to set my gun and they get 3 hole group no prob so i know its not the gun but ME any ideas would be ostly aprciated
thanks again

2.5 lb is the optimium hunting trigger pressure.
What pressure does yours break at?

Heavy trigger will pull you left or right depending on your shooting dominant hand.

Sparks

browning 12 bore wrote: »

i like doing the odd targets now and again and also am a deer and fox hunter very much but starting to notice that i pulling my bullets on the target and so on i wonder is it me or is my triiger very stiff cuase noramlly i get lads to set my gun and they get 3 hole group no prob so i know its not the gun but ME any ideas would be ostly aprciated

Do you pull the round in the same general direction every time, or does it go any which way? Are you pulling the round a long way or just a little? Are you shooting at the target from a bench or from prone or from standing?

Cass

Trigger weight is important. I usually set mine for between 1.5 - 2 lb. For the target rifle it is much lighter.

Other than that the first thing i would recommend, as i have done to others with immediate and significant improvement is hold. The average hunter/stalker has the same grip. When it comes to target shooting either at a bench or prone you need to adapt your grip/hold.

First thing i would recommend is the position of your thumb. Most people place the thumb across the back of the stock, curl it round, and get a good tight grip on the stock. See pic A.



When out in the field shoot in a standing this grip is fine as you need to be on target, but not pin holing the shots. A deer is bigger than a paper target. However when you hold the rifle with this grip you put push/pull pressure on the rifle/stock. By this i mean the natural gerip of a person wants to twist the stock. Now while holding the rifle this motion is not evident however the very second you fire this "twisting" movement is exaggerated by recoil, and results in shots going off. In this case, as with a right handed person the shot normally goes high and right.

To resolve this i always tell people that when shooting in a target environment to move the thumb, and fight the natural urge to grip the stock. The best place for the thumb i find (with a hunting style stock) is along the back of the stock/grip with the thumb tip and the back of the bolt. See pic B;



This style of hold eliminates the majority of "twist". The other tip i would give is the position of the fingers around the front of the grip. You have two choices here depending on your personal choice.

You can wrap the hand/fingers around the front of the grip as is natural. However do not press the fingertips into the stock. IOW do not clench your hand and use a death grip. See pic C;




The other option is, as i would use, the fingers straight out and using the bottom of the fingers (palm side of knuckles) in a straight pull action. This pulls the stock back into your shoulder in a straight line, and without any pressure from the fingers you get no twist. Really its what feels comfortable. See pic D;




I have shown this to a few lads, including tommyboy26, and dev110 here and they saw an immediate improvement. After that they work on the specifics that best suits themselves. It'll take a while because your natural instinct is to grasp the stock. Thing is to take your time, move the thumb, then pull the stock straight back into you.

Do not try and stop the recoil. Its not possible. You need to get your body position in such a way that the recoil comes back into the shoulder, the shoulder goes back, then forward, and the gun returns to its original firing position or as close as possible.

The last final tip i would give is the position of the gun and stock. You want the recoil pad and your shoulder in as true a line as possible with the boe line of the rifle. This will reduce or eliminate muzzle flip as the recoil comes straight back into the shoulder. If the shoulder is below the boreline the recoil wil push the rifle back, and when it gets resistance with the shoulder it will lift the muzzle to "continue" the recoil.

In the picture below the blue line represents the barrel/bore, the red line represents the bore line, and the green marks the ideal position of the butt pad. See how the boreline disects the position of the butt pad to give a good body/shoulder position.




Hope some of that helps, and is clear.

dev110

After Ezri gave me a few tips of hold I did notice an increase in accuracy.
I did notice myself twisting the stock when I had the grip in Pic A. Now the stock doesn't move and when pulling the stock into my shoulder it is a straight line movement.
It took some practice to adapt the new hold in the field as you might only have a few seconds to get off the shot so the natural position would come through.
As was said "practice makes perfect".

Cass

dev110 wrote: »

It took some practice to adapt the new hold in the field as you might only have a few seconds to get off the shot so the natural position would come through.

Thing is you do not need to use the grip in the field. You are not looking for the same precision or even accuracy for that matter. In the field you are looking at minutes of bunny, fox, deer, and its usually only a single shot. So 1 - 1.5 @ 100 yards is fine.

For target shooting not so. You need to be lloking at a minimum of 1MOA at the relevant distances. So for 100 yards your goal is 1 inch. At 200 yards 2 inches, And so on and so forth.

When in the field even i use the grip in pic A. Its a natural reaction, and feels right. However when shooting targets i slow everything down, relax, and make a conscious effort to make sure my grip, hold, breathing, etc is right.

As said there will be an adjustment time, and a little crossover until you find your "fit".

dev110

That's true but a rabbits head is a small target at 150 yards and the slightest twist, flinch will result in a miss.

Cass

Hunting is over the other side.:p

i like doing the odd targets now and again ......................................... but starting to notice that i pulling my bullets on the target

In the field you need only have a 2MOA group at 100, and 1 - 1.5MOA at 200 yards. That will bring home anything you shoot at.

In target shooting you really want, if taking it seriously, at least 0.5MOA, 1 hole group. So precision, accuracy, and consistency.

dev110

Ezridax wrote: »

Hunting is over the other side.:p

Not used to this Target Forum yet

In the field you need only have a 2MOA group at 100, and 1 - 1.5MOA at 200 yards. That will bring home anything you shoot at.

In target shooting you really want, if taking it seriously, at least 0.5MOA, 1 hole group. So precision, accuracy, and consistency.

I agree with you there. Big kill zone on a fox and same on a deer.

Consistency leads to precision and accuracy. I find if you do everything the same the shot will fall in the same place as long as you have an accurate gun.

tomcat220t

Cash in your .22mag and buy an accurate .22lr ,jay .


Set your .22lr trigger to the weight of your .243
Get some quality trigger time from 50-200 yards ......it works

steyrman2

tomcat220t wrote: »

Cash in your .22mag and buy an accurate .22lr ,jay .


Set your .22lr trigger to the weight of your .243
Get some quality trigger time from 50-200 yards ......it works

Or you could go to specsavers :P:P

Mr.Flibble

dev110 wrote: »

That's true but a rabbits head is a small target at 150 yards and the slightest twist, flinch will result in a miss.

On the other hand, you could learn to stalk.

browning 12 bore

how to det my trigger so lightly please

browning 12 bore

oh there he is remember glass houses an all lol lol lol

browning 12 bore

thanks again lads for amm your help but i think trigger to heavy maybe

steyrman2

you could get a lighter spring for the trigger for the bruno i will find out for you just looked it up the trigger can be ajusted

dev110

Mr.Flibble wrote: »

On the other hand, you could learn to stalk.

Stalk a rabbit
If I am able to take the shot why wouldn't I?

poulo6.5

dev110 wrote: »

Stalk a rabbit
If I am able to take the shot why wouldn't I?

ya stalk up on a rabbit, for the layman that means to sneak up on it :D:D

Cass

Lads this is the target forum, and a target orientated thread. Lets not get into a debate on the finer points of stalking or hunting. Thats what the hunting forum is for.

The OP is asking about doing the occassional bit of target shootig so try and keep answers to that.

tommyboy26

Ezi gave me some fantastic tips and hold and hand position and i noticed an improvement in accuracy. I found it very hard at the start to resist the urge to grab the stock. I have since got an acis stock so the thumbhole helps alot better which is why im getting a thumbhole on my hunting rifle.

browning 12 bore

hey there fella yes the hair trigger can be adjusted with a screw but as far as i could see no way to adjust actually trigger mecanisim thanks

Cass

What rifle have you?

browning 12 bore

i have a cz bruno 550 243 not a bad litlle gun if i can get a good operator lol lol thanks again there lads

It wasn't me!

Dry-fire, dry-fire, dry-fire, dry-fire, and when you've done that, dry-fire some more. All the time, and from every position you could conceivably take a shot from. That means off fence posts, sticks, offhand, prone, sitting, kneeling, with sling, without a sling, bipod, no bipod, whatever. Stick a can out at about thirty or forty yards (This is worth doing for whole days by the way, so make a point of going to do it). Start prone, off a steady rest, sandbags or a bipod or whatever suits you, and take aim at the can, watching the movement of the crosshairs, squeezing the trigger straight back, focusing on the crosshairs all the time. Get used the the steady slow movement with the focus on the crosshaiirs, then move back to eighty or ninety yards and do the same. The idea is that you should be able to keep the crosshairs inside the base of the can when you hear the click every time. Then move back again and again until you reach the limit of where you can hold on that target for every shot. This might only be a hundred and fifty yards or so for the time being, but you can stretch it out later. For now, find the limit rather than trying to reach one you've already defined as the limit of your own abilities. Then move back in and try the next position and work out, exactly the same until you find the limit. Now, the fun bit. Take five round and load up. Go out to where you decided your limit was for prone and fire a few shots dry to get the feel, then fire a round. Do the same for four other positions. You should now have five shots in the bottom of a beer can (I'm betting you will - you'd be amazed how much good those couple of hundred rounds of dry-firing will have done you). Now you've proven you can reliably hit something smaller than a tennis ball, repeatably, from field positions. Happy days. From here on out, practise the same drill regularly, and stretch out the distance. Clay pigeons make a great reactive target as well, very satisfying to blow them up, and pretty easy to define your hits and misses! After that, shoot rabbits with a quality, accurate .22. There really is nothing else like that.

Cass

browning 12 bore wrote: »

hey there fella yes the hair trigger can be adjusted with a screw but as far as i could see no way to adjust actually trigger mecanisim thanks

Its not too hard.

The adjustment for the set trigger is directly infront of the trigger itself.



You need to be very careful when doing this as a set trigger by its very nature is sensitive, and the last thing you want is to adjust the trigger down, and have an accidental discharge because the trigger will not pass the bump test.

To adjust the trigger weight you need to remove the stock from the barreled action. When you do you will have acces to the adjustment screws as in the picture below.



The adjustments must be checked, usually by inserting a fired shell, and feeling the difference. The adjustments are;

• Screw labelled A is to adjust the actual weight of the trigger. This makes it lighter, or heavier depending on the adjustment. Again be careful as adjusting this ca have an affect on the set trigger.
• Screw labelled B adjusts the "slack" or amount the trigger moves before it engages or fires the gun. You can adjust it to have no slack and an immediate fire or loads of slack.
• Screw C is for adjusting the amount the trigger travels after you have fired. So if you adjust it you can have the trigger with no "slack" after the shot is fired or if you prefer the trigger can continue to travel after the rifle is fired if that suits you.

The trick is to keep adjusting, and dry firing to get all setting just as you want. When finished adjusting check the set trigger before re-attaching the stock.

kakashka

browning 12 bore wrote: »

thanks again lads for amm your help but i think trigger to heavy maybe

Hello browning,does your trigger feel notchy?i polished the sear on my neighbours,made a huge difference -i would add though,get someone who's familiar with this work or adjusting triggers to help you out

browning 12 bore

thank you very much there fella for your help we must of been thinking on the same lines i went on line there to bruno website and low and behold exactly pictures what you have there also then went and took gun apart and adjusted screws the best way i could and happy enough the way it is now so now it think its all down to me and as member called wasnt me said a no true word
dry fire dry fire and keep practice
but thanks very much lads for all you help guys

Cass

It might look complicated, but i assure you there really is nothing to dropping the stock, adjusting the trigger, and re-attaching the stock.

I've had a few CZ's over the years, and the two cousins have a CZ in .243 so well used to them. The pictures from the CZ website provide the best picture possible, better than any photo i could take.

When dropping off the stock either use a torque wrench or mark the screw, and count the turns. So when you go to remount the stock you can turn the screw back to its proper setting and should not loose your zero.

Mr.Flibble

dev110 wrote: »

Stalk a rabbit
If I am able to take the shot why wouldn't I?

Because you seemed to think you might miss.

Mr.Flibble

Ezridax wrote: »

Lads this is the target forum, and a target orientated thread. Lets not get into a debate on the finer points of stalking or hunting. Thats what the hunting forum is for.

The OP is asking about doing the occassional bit of target shootig so try and keep answers to that.

Fair enough. But let's not be using live animals just as targets then.

Cass

There has been no mention of using live animals for target practice. I am working on the assumption that the OP posted in the target forum for target answers, and his intention is to shoot at paper.

Until i'm told different thats how it stands. So again lets stay on topic.