Teaching Council-New professional Guidelines are nonsense.

Flashgordon197

I'm sure many teachers are aware of the new proposed guidelines for professional conduct. These guidelines have been drawn up by a committee of the teaching council-the names of which have been kept secret. There was "consultation" but only for the designated teacher council rep from your school. I bet most schools dont have such a person-thus the vast majority of schools and teachers have had no input.
Yes, there is a public survey but anyone and I mean anyone can comment on these "guidelines" . If you look at the guidelines you will notice that all responsibility for what happens in the classroom is your total responsibility. Parents, society,School management ,the Inspectorate are not held accountable. There is no context for the type of school you are working in. The whole thing is quite prescriptive.
The teaching council has built up a" war chest "(their words not mine) of 10 million Euro to bring teachers before hugely expensive tribunals that will use these guidelines to prosecute you.

They have abolished the equivalent council in the Uk because it did not nothing to help teachers. I urge all teachers to read the guidelines and take my criticisms on board.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jun/02/general-teaching-council-england-abolished

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/latest-news/consultation-on-new-draft-code.1124.html

spurious

Considering Section 37 is still on the 'equality' books, their insistence on 'honesty and openness' is a bit rich.
Why should a gay or lesbian teacher be forced to out themselves?


ensure that they do not access,
download or otherwise have in
their possession, at any time or in
any place, illegal materials/images
in electronic or other format

On a slightly facetious note, if I choose to smoke hash while watching torrented Zhang Yimou films dressed as Genghis Khan of a Saturday night, what business is it of the Teaching Council's?

TheDriver

didn't realise being dressed as genghis khan was illegal?

I love 3.1.4
seek to develop positive
relationships with pupils/students,
colleagues, parents, school
management and others, that are
characterised by professional
integrity and judgement

So will those teachers who go out of their way to cause trouble be brought up at a tribunal??

evolving_doors

spurious wrote: »

Considering Section 37 is still on the 'equality' books, their insistence on 'honesty and openness' is a bit rich.
Why should a gay or lesbian teacher be forced to out themselves?


ensure that they do not access,
download or otherwise have in
their possession, at any time or in
any place, illegal materials/images
in electronic or other format

On a slightly facetious note, if I choose to smoke hash while watching torrented Zhang Yimou films dressed as Genghis Khan of a Saturday night, what business is it of the Teaching Council's?

busted...

3.3.10 ensure that they do not practise
while under the influence of any
substance which impairs their
ability or medical fitness

evolving_doors

3.2.6 avoid direct conflict between
their professional work and
private interests.

Who judges this?

Presume it's a nice earner for the legal eagles to hash out in court...jobs for the boys

evolving_doors

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Yes, there is a public survey but anyone and I mean anyone can comment on these "guidelines" . If you look at the guidelines you will notice that all responsibility for what happens in the classroom is your total responsibility. Parents, society,School management ,the Inspectorate are not held accountable. There is no context for the type of school you are working in. The whole thing is quite prescriptive.

Agreed, who ends up in the dock at the end of the day? the teacher who did not recognise the needs of the individual (out of a class of 30 half of whom may have severe learning/behavioral issues). Or the school who put the teacher in that position (possibly through no fault of their own thanks to the increasing pupil teacher ratio).

I really believe as many teachers as possible should take a bit of time out to really question some of the points in the Code as it's all fine and dandy if you only teach a class of 15 students and none of whom have any issues... Does the code take account of what is actually happening at the chalkface of irish education?

Flashgordon197

Pass the message onto as many teachers as you can but in my experience teachers are too accepting of whatever their masters serve up.

Delphi91

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

...These guidelines have been drawn up by a committee of the teaching council-the names of which have been kept secret...

Have you enquired about the composition of the committee?

A little research on the Teaching Council website came up with the following:

THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE

This Committee drafts submissions and makes recommendations to the Council on a number of areas. Amongst other areas, this involves drafting Codes of Professional Conduct for Teachers; advising on the continuing professional development needs of teachers; and on developing the Teaching Council's research and communications strategy.
The Education Committee has thirteen members:

Noel Buckley (Chairperson)
Christy Carroll
Jerry Cronin
Emer Egan
Dr Jim Gleeson
Professor Kathy Hall
Susie Hall
Dr Pádraig Hogan
Micheál Kilcrann
Vivienne MacSweeney
Micheál Ó Gríofa
Tim O'Meara
Dr Pauric Travers

Flashgordon197

Delphi91 wrote: »

Have you enquired about the composition of the committee?

A little research on the Teaching Council website came up with the following:

This is not the committee that drew up the guidelines so a "little research " will draw you up a blank. Trust me they have kept the details of that quite secret. Anyway-the important point is not who drew up the guidelines but

• The lack of mass consultation with all teachers. A survey that any tom dick or harry can contribute is not consultation.
• The Guidelines themselves which lack any context or any responsibility being asked for from parents ,management or any of the oft paraded education partners. In other words anything happens in the classroom, which the teaching council deems unprofessional ,will be judged solely on the events without any context. In the Uk teachers have been hauled up on the most frivolous of pretexts ie using a mobile phone during yard supervision.
• There are only two outcomes from being dragged before these show trials-fit to teach or not fit to teach-in practically every other jurisdiction there are a variety of outcomes
• Those judging you might not b practising teachers-they could be "registered" but no promises on whether they will be faced daily with the challenges you are.
• The 10 million war chest. Here we are raising the pupil teacher ratio and the teaching council sits on this obscene amount of money?

Fuinseog

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Pass the message onto as many teachers as you can but in my experience teachers are too accepting of whatever their masters serve up.

some form of guidelines are necessary. for too long things lacked clarity. younger teachers are somewhat clueless to whats happenings until they read such guidelines. The ASTI represents the interest of older teachers.
teachers who have permanent jobs will rock the boat and younger teachers are afraid and are easily bullied.

NewHillel

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

I'm sure many teachers are aware of the new proposed guidelines for professional conduct. ...
They have abolished the equivalent council in the Uk because it did not nothing to help teachers. I urge all teachers to read the guidelines and take my criticisms on board.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jun/02/general-teaching-council-england-abolished

There's more to it than that though (my bold):

Gove said: "Since I have been shadowing education and more recently held the brief in government, there has been one organisation of whose purpose and benefit to teachers I am deeply sceptical - the General Teaching Council for England.

"I believe this organisation does little to raise teaching standards or professionalism. Instead it simply acts as a further layer of bureaucracy while taking money away from teachers.

"I want there to be stronger and clearer arrangements in relation to teacher misconduct and I am not convinced the GTCE is the right organisation to take these forward. I intend to seek authority from parliament to abolish the General Teaching Council for England."

Every profession needs a "Code of Conduct" and I have read the "Draft Code of Professional Conduct for Teachers" and it appears appropriate and balanced. My profession has had a similar code for many years - though my own contract terms are much more onerous than these.

I sat on a BOM for many years. The lack of a code such as the one proposed made it extremely difficult to deal with teacher-related issues. Indeed, every effort was made to avoid them, because they were so intractable. This was in nobody's interest as issues that should have been dealt with expeditiously were never properly addressed.

NewHillel

spurious wrote: »

Considering Section 37 is still on the 'equality' books, their insistence on 'honesty and openness' is a bit rich.
Why should a gay or lesbian teacher be forced to out themselves?

I agree with you, addressing this nonsense is long overdue. A Code of Conduct doesn't operate in a vacuum, and the obligation of the employer also needs to be considered.

spurious wrote: »

ensure that they do not access,
download or have in
their possession, at any time or in
any place, illegal materials/images
in electronic or other format

On a slightly facetious note, if I choose to smoke hash while watching torrented Zhang Yimou films dressed as Genghis Khan of a Saturday night, what business is it of the Teaching Council's?

I'm pretty sure most teachers will know where this clause is coming from. Leaving the obvious aside, there is no place for illegality in the teaching profession, or in any profession of that matter.

amacca

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

If you look at the guidelines you will notice that all responsibility for what happens in the classroom is your total responsibility. Parents, society,School management ,the Inspectorate are not held accountable. There is no context for the type of school you are working in. The whole thing is quite prescriptive.

Don't worry...some of these guidelines are so totally unenforceable or unclear as to be laughable ... its hard to see how they could make a legal decision on the basis of some of them

and some of them seem to be aspirational rather than actual enforceable concrete guidelines to me

though there are a number of pretty clear fit for purpose ones in there which should be in there imo

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

The teaching council has built up a" war chest "(their words not mine) of 10 million Euro to bring teachers before hugely expensive tribunals that will use these guidelines to prosecute you.

prosecute you for what?......well some are pretty clear but for some of the ones mentioned previously...


eg: not seeking to develop positive relationships at all times (perhaps even on a given day in work)....it really is laughable.....if your not cheery and happy and 110%, yes sir guv'nor can do attitude bobs your uncle toodle pip they will take a criminal case against you............what level of positivity does one need to foster or exhibit or pretend to exhibit I wonder..do they have a positivity formula or metric one has to measure up to?

how would they prosecute you for "not avoiding direct conflict between
their professional work and private interests"? ...they would have to define what they consider a conflict as a first step

is commenting on an internet forum about the ridiculousness of some of their guidelines a direct conflict between professional work and private interests.......is running a small business as well as teaching a direct conflict between professional work and private interests?

what exactly is a direct conflict?...................seeking to destroy education in Ireland as we know it in ones private life through a multitude of nefarious schemes while turning up for work every day as a teacher?


its actually quite hilarious how silly some of these guidelines are....give them enough rope I say and they will hang themselves or alternatively its just another quango type self justification/pr exercise

+ is that not just the draft...surely they will have tidied it up a bit by the time they get round to the real thing? one can only hope I suppose

mrboswell

NewHillel wrote: »

I'm pretty sure most teachers will know where this clause is coming from. Leaving the obvious aside, there is no place for illegality in the teaching profession, or in any profession of that matter.

I'm sure everyone agrees but if there is an issue it should be the gardai that sort it and not the council weighing in with all its "wisdom".

I'm all on for the council cleaning up the teaching profession but there are more pressing issues than worrying about what teachers do on their own time. They could start with the staff toilets in my school.

NewHillel

mrboswell wrote: »

I'm sure everyone agrees but if there is an issue it should be the gardai that sort it and not the council weighing in with all its "wisdom".

I'm all on for the council cleaning up the teaching profession but there are more pressing issues than worrying about what teachers do on their own time. They could start with the staff toilets in my school.

I really dont see what be fuss is about. Most professional bodies have Codes of Conduct, and most members ascribe to them. I don't see anything out of line, and anyone with a concern has the opportunity to provide feedback.

Why would anyone want a profession where the only option is for the Gardai to sort it out? Surely it is far better to have a more graduated approach? I would also think that the Council has neither the resources, nor intent, to start a witch hunt against teachers. Anyway that's my tuppence worth.

Fuinseog

these guidelines are full of the responsibilities of the teacher, but do not mention any of the rights a teacher might have. this imbalance is not good.

maybe they should have guidelines for the responsibilities of the pupil and parent and principal.

amacca

Fuinseog wrote: »

these guidelines are full of the responsibilities of the teacher, but do not mention any of the rights a teacher might have. this imbalance is not good.

maybe they should have guidelines for the responsibilities of the pupil and parent and principal.

well that would be good but I suppose they may not have a part in a teacher guidelines document..............it would be good if they could publish those separately and make them legally enforceable too...it would clear up a lot of nonsense in the system imo

at the very least though with these guidelines they should make reference to circumstances that may make following some of these guidelines to the letter unfeasible/unreasonable etc

you know, something like a "where reasonably possible" or a "shall not knowingly do whatever it is they are not supposed to do" (knowingly being the important distinction

rather than the totally one sided wording of some of the guidelines with no reference to even the possibility of extenuating circumstances etc (although obviously there are no extenuating circumstances for some of the guidelines ..but not all nonetheless)..........

especially if they are meant to be legal guidelines....reasonableness and fairness should be incorporated into the wording

NewHillel

Fuinseog wrote: »

these guidelines are full of the responsibilities of the teacher, but do not mention any of the rights a teacher might have. this imbalance is not good.

maybe they should have guidelines for the responsibilities of the pupil and parent and principal.

They really are not that out of the ordinary. Compare with these:

Irish Psychological Society

http://www.irish-counselling.ie/images/pdf/Code_of_Ethics_and_practice_updated_5th_Nov.pdf

Engineers Ireland

Godge

Fuinseog wrote: »

maybe they should have guidelines for the responsibilities of the pupil and parent and principal.

Yes a good idea.

amacca wrote: »

well that would be good but I suppose they may not have a part in a teacher guidelines document..............it would be good if they could publish those separately and make them legally enforceable too...it would clear up a lot of nonsense in the system imo

And make them legally binding.


Here is one potential legally binding responsibility of the principal:

To ensure that only a competent, sober, on-time teacher is put in front of any class and that wherever these conditions are breached by a teacher that appropriate disciplinary action up to and including dismissal be taken and enforced.

Are you sure that you like what you are asking for?

spurious

A colleague of mine in another school has had difficulties with a particular student in a practical class since September. The student previously had an SNA and now is without one. My colleague has repeatedly written to her Principal about this child expressing fears for the safety of anyone in the room with this child. Nothing happened.

Up til just before Christmas, the biggest incident was (only!) some chair throwing, but then there was a sustained assault on another student.

I presume in such circumstances, the responsibility for 'what happened in the classroom' is entirely on the school management and whatever expert deemed the child did not need an SNA, not on my colleague?

Some real world guidelines might help. Personally, I have no problem taking responsibility for what goes on in my classroom, as long as I am not being stymied from without.

amacca

Godge wrote: »

Are you sure that you like what you are asking for?

yes....

although with the on time teacher bit I presume there is some leeway for an occasional breakdown/accident/out of the ordinary circumstances or teachers that have to move around from class to class in a large school where it may not be feasible to show up in one room directly after the other particularly if equipment has to be carried or disciplinary matters from the previous class be dealt with etc etc....basically a bit of common sense should be employed



as long as all "partners" (teachers, students, parents, management, policymakers) in the process are made responsible/answerable in this way I think that would be fair.

Fuinseog

spurious wrote: »

A colleague of mine in another school has had difficulties with a particular student in a practical class since September. The student previously had an SNA and now is without one. My colleague has repeatedly written to her Principal about this child expressing fears for the safety of anyone in the room with this child. Nothing happened.

Up til just before Christmas, the biggest incident was (only!) some chair throwing, but then there was a sustained assault on another student.

I presume in such circumstances, the responsibility for 'what happened in the classroom' is entirely on the school management and whatever expert deemed the child did not need an SNA, not on my colleague?

Some real world guidelines might help. Personally, I have no problem taking responsibility for what goes on in my classroom, as long as I am not being stymied from without.

the responsibility for what happens there is on the weakest link, ergo a new and inexperienced teacher. management often see it that way as they themselves cannot handle the situation.
I know that i would keep records and quote health and safety as a a reason for being unable to teach the class while chair throwing is in progress.
unfortunately the dept of ed tends to stick their hand in the sand in such cases.
the dep of ed would argue that the child has to be educated and its the teachers job to do so which is a catch 22 situation.

Flashgordon197

Great comments and glad to see a debate. Sadly the methodology of the teaching council has stifled a debate. An on line survey that ANYONE can take not just teachers is not a full debate.
Every teacher needs to be sent a posted copy as there are a considerable number of teachers who dont use the net. You get a copy with an opportunity to respond. Take it or leave it. They have 10 million euro in the bank for god sake-they can afford the stamps/SAE

NewHillel

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Great comments and glad to see a debate. Sadly the methodology of the teaching council has stifled a debate. An on line survey that ANYONE can take not just teachers is not a full debate.
Every teacher needs to be sent a posted copy as there are a considerable number of teachers who dont use the net. You get a copy with an opportunity to respond. Take it or leave it. They have 10 million euro in the bank for god sake-they can afford the stamps/SAE

It wouldn't be a full debate if only teachers could comment.

NewHillel

spurious wrote: »

A colleague of mine in another school has had difficulties with a particular student in a practical class since September. The student previously had an SNA and now is without one. My colleague has repeatedly written to her Principal about this child expressing fears for the safety of anyone in the room with this child. Nothing happened...

This Principal is not doing their job. If it were me I'd gently guide parents to complain to the BOM. (On the assumption that they don't want friction with the Principal.) Any Principal worth their salt would bring such a situation to the BOM with a view to getting the student suspended. We had a situation like this when I Watson a BOM and we eventually expelled the student. It all hinged on having a formal code of conduct, following it o the letter, and keeping records. It still wasn't easy.

Flashgordon197

NewHillel wrote: »

It wouldn't be a full debate if only teachers could comment.

Of course it should not just be teachers but all teachers should be asked directly-we cant be sure who is responding in this survey. Anybody can put themselves down as a teacher. Ultimately,its about teachers and we should be sure they all get a chance to comment. As mentioned -they can easily afford the stamps-post direct.

Flashgordon197

Jan 27th is the closing date for submissions.