Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen · 28-01-2012 5:39am

Have seen a number of posts saying he will not be top clas, will not be a star for united, will be a good option to have from the bench/3rd choice striker.

Simple response to them, asking what logical reason made them come to that conclusion based on the evidence thus far.

d22ontour · 28-01-2012 5:52am

Simple question is he good enough to play upfront for us ? Answer should be a resounding yes, and with such potential and room for improvement to come.
Cleverley too in the same season after both being on loan previously is what all fans like to see, maybe if Pogba/Morrison had a season long loan outside the club might have pushed them on....We get two for the first time in years and here i am wishing it was more.

We have produced 2 players with potential to be first team starters, it's been a while, though the pressure on Cleverley is kinda over the top regarding his position, i hope he can handle our expectations of him.

kryogen · 28-01-2012 5:54am

The hype and expectation around Cleverley is a bit unfair on him alright, he is expected to make a huge improvement to that midfield by most fans, the media and even Fergie! It will be a good test of his character to see how he does handle it when he plays more then 5 games

killwill · 28-01-2012 9:30am

kryogen wrote: »

The hype and expectation around Cleverley is a bit unfair on him alright, he is expected to make a huge improvement to that midfield by most fans, the media and even Fergie! It will be a good test of his character to see how he does handle it when he plays more then 5 games

I am a huge fan of Cleverley and his short passing in tight spaces, like 1-2s in around the box is very exciting. You will always get 110% from him.
Lack of pace and defensive abilities are his biggest flaws but I personally think a 3 man MF is ideal for him.
SAF has said many times he is England's most exciting young player.

Blatter · 28-01-2012 11:27am

kryogen wrote: »

For people doubting Welbeck and his potential to be a future first choice striker for United (which he clearly is now anyway) A simple question, why?

What reason do you have to doubt him?

The only reason I can think of is that he's been around so long. He made his debut for us in 2008 and is only flourishing for us now, whereas people were expecting him to do it sooner. I'm sure before his loan move to Sunderland last year lots of people were saying 'I'm not sure if he'll be United class'

So when he does do it now, people still have this thought ingrained into their heads that he'll never be good *enough*.

These attitudes are largely because of the likes of Messi and Rooney who were first team regulars when they were 17 - so any other player that doesn't do it when they are 17/18 can't go on to be world class, which just simply isn't true and is a ridiculously unrealistic expectation.

Like you say, there is literally no reason to doubt why Welbeck won't go on to be top drawer for us.

With regards his finishing, I think he does the right things. He doesn't panic and he knows where the goals are - he knows what to do when he gets in a goalscoring position whether it be round the keeper, chip it, near post, far post etc. but his final execution of this lets him down slightly sometimes. Against Fulham he got in one on one with the keeper and knew to dink it but he just put too much on it. Similar win the Arsenal game, when he left Mertesacker for dead he knew how to finish past the goalkeeper but just didn't put enough on it.

He knows how to finish, but he could be more clinical if that makes sense. But that is just nitpicking if I'm being honest, I have no doubts that he will improve on that.

bucketybuck · 28-01-2012 1:14pm

Blatter wrote: »

Similar win the Arsenal game, when he left Mertesacker for dead he knew how to finish past the goalkeeper but just didn't put enough on it.

Not similar at all, Mertesacker had clipped his legs, throwing him off balance. He should have gone down but attempted to get a shot away, unfortunately he couldnt get enough contact on the ball. Even them he still got it past the keeper.

Personally I think his finishing is very composed, I dont get where this criticism comes from.

Blatter · 28-01-2012 1:24pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not similar at all, Mertesacker had clipped his legs, throwing him off balance. He should have gone down but attempted to get a shot away, unfortunately he couldnt get enough contact on the ball. Even them he still got it past the keeper.

Personally I think his finishing is very composed, I dont get where this criticism comes from.

I know Mertesaker clipped him but he I'd need to see it again. I still felt he should have been able to finish it off at the time.

Regardless, there was other chances in that match that he didn't finish and there have been other occasions in other matches. I don't think there's a lot to worry about with his finishing, but he could be a little more clinical which I'm sure will come.

stesaurus · 28-01-2012 1:30pm

s.welstead wrote: »

Talking out of their arse then unless its some kind of enhanced odds. Liverpool have been slight favourites all week.

I'd say if you're into trading then a lay of Utd and then back them after the team is announced. No doubt Utd will drift once whatever the Random Midfield Generator produces.

Anyone get on the lay of Utd? I layed at 2.92 and have just backed at 3.25. Nice free bet.

Although I feel strangely confident on this one so will risk a bit. I actually think we might go behind and come back to win 2-1. So I'll hold a bit in reserve in case Utd go behind.

Vertigo100 · 28-01-2012 3:07pm

Diouf gone to Hanover for an undisclosed fee

DOC09UNAM · 28-01-2012 3:27pm

Why put pogba on the bench if there is no intention of bringing him on at all.

kmart6 · 28-01-2012 3:29pm

Match day experience?

Just cause your on the bench doesn't mean you should get on!

kryogen · 28-01-2012 3:34pm

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Diouf gone to Hanover for an undisclosed fee

He may very well do quite well for them, I think he is a very good finisher so hope he does well

MagicMarker · 28-01-2012 3:37pm

Pogba should just put in a transfer request.

Cypher_sounds · 28-01-2012 3:39pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Pogba should just put in a transfer request.

Hernandez might be doing the same if he doesn't start more often:mad:

Will I Amnt · 28-01-2012 3:39pm

Didn't think we had much of a chance at kick-off but to dominate most of the game like that and then lose is a load of bollox.

grames_bond · 28-01-2012 3:39pm

So weird! Out of the cup and I went "oh well" at the final whistle! What the f*ck?!

Shocking second half!

Red Crow · 28-01-2012 3:42pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Pogba should just put in a transfer request.

We deserved to win that. Vidic, Rooney, Nani, Rio, Jones, Cleveleys etc. All out. We controlled the game bar when Scholes came off. Why bring on Pogba when we needed a Berbatov on the pitch And Pogba hasn't exactly been above average in his handful of CC appearances.

Vanbis · 28-01-2012 3:43pm

Yet again strange substitutions by saf. Brining off Scholes who was probably our best player up to that point was crazy imo. Nothing against Javier but he did SFA for 20min. If anything he shoud've pulled Welbeck off for Javier and left Scholes on.

James Forde · 28-01-2012 3:43pm

Vanbis wrote: »

Yet again strange substitutions by saf. Brining of Scholes who was probably our best player up to that point was crazy imo. Nothing against Javier but he did SFA for 20min. If anything he shoud've pulled Welbeck off for Javier and left Scholes on.

Scholes was ****ed! Seriously he HAD to come off

PHB · 28-01-2012 3:45pm

Mod Note:

I would remind everyone to keep the discussion of the match incidents to the match thread.

titan18 · 28-01-2012 3:45pm

Eli Manning wrote: »

We deserved to win that. Vidic, Rooney, Nani, Rio, Jones, Cleveleys etc. All out. We controlled the game bar when Scholes came off. Why bring on Pogba when we needed a Berbatov on the pitch And Pogba hasn't exactly been above average in his handful of CC appearances.

Tbh, I don't trust United to win a game with Scholes and Giggs on the field for 90 minutes. Berba should have been on the pitch earlier, and Pogba should have been on since we had no other alternatives in midfield. We needed that in midfield more than anything imo.

Imo, Pogba should be given the chance. If he blows fair enough, but we need players in midfield now.

MagicMarker · 28-01-2012 3:47pm

Just today's match or all matches ever?

Professional Griefer · 28-01-2012 3:51pm

Thought I'd be more upset. Its obviously sickening getting knocked out of a cup, and especially losing to the pool. For some reason it isn't as bad this season.

Just need to look forward to Tuesday, and hopefully more of the lads will get back to fitness and stay that way. Missing a lot of big names at the moment.

adox · 28-01-2012 3:57pm

PHB wrote: »

Mod Note:

I would remind everyone to keep the discussion of the match incidents to the match thread.

Is this for just during the game or post match as well?

PHB · 28-01-2012 3:59pm

The general rule is this:

If you want to discuss the game, the incidents like the goals, etc., chants etc. you need to do it in the match thread.

If you want to talk about the overall season, like this game is going to dent our chances or Evra's performance was again poor, what can do we about him, that's all fine.

kmart6 · 28-01-2012 4:02pm

Well the majority of the posts so far have been selection related in relation to today, which has an effect on our season!

MagicMarker · 28-01-2012 4:04pm

So last week, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, and the week before, when there was always some discussion about a match in here after the fact, that's the wrong thing now?

counterlock · 28-01-2012 4:05pm

PHB wrote: »

Evra's performance was again poor, what can do we about him

Thats a bit of an over reaction. Evra has been pretty solid for most of this season. He's our only defender that managed to stay fit

Like Cambo said, I expected to lose today, but its disappointing to have dominated so much. There is something up with the way the mid field lose grip on the game so quickly. City, Arsenal and now Liverpool.

Nalz · 28-01-2012 4:05pm

Wasn't upset at all at the final whistle, strange for me tbh but brings home the fact that pipping city to the league is by far the main aim.

Looking forward to Tuesday night, lindergaard surely a starter now!

Mikeyt086 · 28-01-2012 4:06pm

Without Rooney and Nani we looked toothless. Created nothing apart from the goal, which was through great work from Rafael, our best player on the day.

FlawedGenius · 28-01-2012 4:07pm

De Gea on loan maybe? Disastrous start to his career at United this could ruin him.........

kmart6 · 28-01-2012 4:09pm

FlawedGenius wrote: »

De Gea on loan maybe? Disastrous start to his career at United this could ruin him.........

Jesus christ....what a fcuking overreaction!!

MagicMarker · 28-01-2012 4:10pm

Dropping him for a month can ruin him, absolutely retarded decision from Fergie.

kryogen · 28-01-2012 4:12pm

counterlock wrote: »

Thats a bit of an over reaction. Evra has been pretty solid for most of this season. He's our only defender that managed to stay fit

Like Cambo said, I expected to lose today, but its disappointing to have dominated so much. There is something up with the way the mid field lose grip on the game so quickly. City, Arsenal and now Liverpool.

Its really not an overreaction, Evra has been below par for the majority of 2 years now

PHB · 28-01-2012 4:14pm

counterlock wrote: »

Thats a bit of an over reaction. Evra has been pretty solid for most of this season. He's our only defender that managed to stay fit

I'm sorry but I totally disagre. I think Evra has been shocking, I mean really shocking, and right now, I wouldn't be sad to see him sold. Has never been the same since the World Cup.

kryogen · 28-01-2012 4:15pm

FlawedGenius wrote: »

De Gea on loan maybe? Disastrous start to his career at United this could ruin him.........

Now thats an overreaction!

Mikeyt086 · 28-01-2012 4:15pm

IT IS DAVID DE GEA'S FIRST SEASON IN ENGLISH FOOTBALL AND HE IS 21 YEARS OLD.

Get some perspective.

Nalz · 28-01-2012 4:16pm

PHB wrote: »

I'm sorry but I totally disagre. I think Evra has been shocking, I mean really shocking, and right now, I wouldn't be sad to see him sold. Has never been the same since the World Cup.

Really, I thought since Christmas he's upped his game a bit

FlawedGenius · 28-01-2012 4:18pm

kmart6 wrote: »

Jesus christ....what a fcuking overreaction!!

Not an exaggeration at all.. Couldnt of been much worse from him. United cant afford to keep playing him when hes this bad so instead of sitting on the bench, on loan would be his best option.

dahat · 28-01-2012 4:18pm

Another competiton we are out of......this season will be very bare i think.
Shocked we lost today given our domination ...

spiralism · 28-01-2012 4:21pm

One of these years methinks. Serious investment needed again, losing to that mob says it all. We've really struggled against these sort of teams who like to sit 10 and hoof it over the top. Drew with Stoke, lost to blackburn, lost to them...

Blatter · 28-01-2012 4:22pm

PHB wrote: »

The general rule is this:

If you want to discuss the game, the incidents like the goals, etc., chants etc. you need to do it in the match thread.

If you want to talk about the overall season, like this game is going to dent our chances or Evra's performance was again poor, what can do we about him, that's all fine.

A little bizarre, I've never seen mods enforce this rule before. Why today all of a sudden?

We did okay today overall. Were the better team for the majority of the game without having a real cutting edge, which was understandable given we were missing a host of creative players. Liverpool only scored through basic errors from us, like most of their goals against us at Anfield in recent seasons.

Hopefully Rooney, Jones and one or two others will be back for the Stoke game. Cleverley and Young should be back next week which will be a boost.

Full concentration on the league from now on. And one big plus point from today; Paul Scholes ha proved it was the correct decision to come out of retirement, he was excellent for the majority of the game today. He'll be more than useful for the run in.

retalivity · 28-01-2012 4:23pm

pool fan in peace here...

i actually felt sorry for de gea today.
he looks completely lost and devoid of confidence. I don't know whether the setup and dealings at united contribute to this or whatever, but he needs to get out of there asap on loan or something, before he becomes a complete wreck

kmart6 · 28-01-2012 4:25pm

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Not an exaggeration at all.. Couldnt of been much worse from him. United cant afford to keep playing him when hes this bad so instead of sitting on the bench, on loan would be his best option.

Oh FFS!

So the fact Agger had a free header was his fault then in your eyes yeah?! He never would have got to it with the crowd in front of him!

If your blaming him for the second goal you'll then need to say Reina was at fault for Parc's goal! Along, with any goal scored from 6-8 yards out, where the keeper never really has a chance!

Patsy fyre · 28-01-2012 4:26pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

IT IS DAVID DE GEA'S FIRST SEASON IN ENGLISH FOOTBALL AND HE IS 21 YEARS OLD.

Get some perspective.

Yes, I take your point but if he's not good enough then you can't blame fergie not starting him.

kmart6 · 28-01-2012 4:32pm

Patsy fyre wrote: »

Yes, I take your point but if he's not good enough then you can't blame fergie not starting him.

Yeah, that's it, Fergie thinks he isn't good enough, so starts him in the FA Cup 4th round just for he sh1ts and giggles it would create!

jonnyfingers · 28-01-2012 4:32pm

Bad result today, but really only because we didn't push on and win it. Overall I thought we played well. We were dominant in possession, defended well for 85 minutes, but at the same time for all our possession we got very few shots on target. Liverpool were poor and created very little but if we concede from set pieces and long balls like that a loss was always on the cards.

As for De Gea, I feel sorry for him but he really is a liability. If anything else his presence in the side gives encouragement to the opposition and has the opposite effect on our defenders. You could see the Liverpool players and fans getting excited whenever they had a corner. I'd argue that for the first goal our defenders were so focused on keeping the attackers away from De Gea the forgot to actually defend the ball and head it away. It will be a big decision if SAF decides to stick with him until he comes good, he's likely to make many more mistakes. Hopefully he'll improve.

The most frustrating part for me was how we really lost control of the game when Scholes was subbed off. I know Liverpool put on some subs which improved them, but once Scholes went off we really struggled to keep the ball for more than a few seconds. We really can't be relying on a 37 year old to control games for us.

Patsy fyre · 28-01-2012 4:37pm

kmart6 wrote: »

Patsy fyre wrote: »

Yes, I take your point but if he's not good enough then you can't blame fergie not starting him.

Yeah, that's it, Fergie thinks he isn't good enough, so starts him in the FA Cup 4th round just for he sh1ts and giggles it would create!

It's the cup. He played today but hasn't played in the last month. Its clear that Lindegaard is now number 1. I said it when he was in Spain and il say it again, he is a liability.
Just hope he doesn't fcuk up our league campaign.

FlawedGenius · 28-01-2012 4:38pm

kmart6 wrote: »

Oh FFS!

So the fact Agger had a free header was his fault then in your eyes yeah?! He never would have got to it with the crowd in front of him!

If your blaming him for the second goal you'll then need to say Reina was at fault for Parc's goal! Along, with any goal scored from 6-8 yards out, where the keeper never really has a chance!

Kuyts shot was straight at him though. He wasnt even set for the first goal as Southgate said..
He dives at the ball with the wrong hand half the time. Stands too far to one side of the goal alot of the time. Terrible concentration. A small keeper and he wont get any taller. Seems queit, shy and not vocal enough. I know the latter can be improved as he ages but he doesnt even do the basics right. I guarantee if Fergie could sell him on for a decent fee or turn back time he would never have signed him.

Kylo Ren · 28-01-2012 4:39pm

I love how we go straight to De Gea to give him a whack with the blame stick. The defense for that corner was atrocious. We really do struggle with corners and crosses this season, especially without Vidic. De Gea has been stuck on the bench for a month in his first season in a new country and league. Yes he has had **** ups but to not blame the defense along with him is stupid.

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

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