Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Mitch Connor

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Just looking at the goal again which some slatted De Gea for, on timesoccer.com. Even before the corner kick is taken the commentator says "De Gea, he's going to struggle to get through that lot." The defenders positioning was dire, which allowed a knot of bodies to block De Gea. Short of giving away a penalty, I don't think even Kane (WWE) would have got to that ball. Hadn't really analysed it properly until now, storm in a tea cup.

yeah - you could see it coming alright. As Ferguson said, the defenders should have cleared more room there and given him a chance. Agger getting a free header was the fault of the defence imo.

However, I would also take issue with how involved De Gea got with Carrol, I'm not sure he needed to deal with Carrol himself (would Carrol have blocked him off anyway?) which put him in no position to deal with the head that came in.

So I wouldn't criticise him for not getting the ball, but I would have a question mark over his actions on that corner regardless.

newballsplease

MagicMarker wrote: »

And you sir are a genius :rolleyes:

MagicMarker

newballsplease wrote: »

And you sir are a genius :rolleyes:

Obviously.

newballsplease

aperture_nuig wrote: »

I'd agree with you, but I think he made a mistake in coming for a ball that already had ~6 players under it. Not saying he would have saved it if he stayed on the line, but that would have been the better decision IMO. Although, it's very easy to say that in hindsight, not so easy when you've a split second to make that decision in a cup match against liverpool :pac:

He has no presence...he looks like a shrimp. No strenght. He should be roaring at his defence to giv him better protection. Liability.

Blatter

VW 1 wrote: »

I really think a lot is being read into by Anders getting the run of games over Christmas. SAF had said DeGea would get a break as that is what he is used to. I will be hoping the lad is reinstated as no.1 now.

And for those calling for more height and Smalling at RB, did Rafael not show at Liverpool why, when fit, he is one of the best RBs in the country. For those of you who will throw the Stoke long ball club etc in reply, they have cut a lot of this out and have been playing a lot more football this season.

Jones and Smalling fill in great at RB but they do just that, fill in. Let out right back play at right back when he is available.

Don't think so. SAF said that de Gea would play against Blackburn and Newcastle a few weeks ago. After the mistake v Blackburn, he didn't play v Newcastle so that can be seen as significant.

Team tomorrow:

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Lindegaard

---

Smalling----Ferdinand

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Evans

---

Evra
Rafael

---

Carrick

---

Scholes

---

Fabio

---

Berbatov

---

---

Hernandez

---

Okay it won't be that, but don't be surprised to see a weird team. I think SAF will take a gamble here with the team selection to try and save legs for the Chelsea game. Stoke have been traditionally ****e away from home against the big teams since they've been in the EPL and I think he'll bank on that with his team selection.

Mitch Connor

I reckon:

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Lindegaard

Rafael-Smalling-Evans-Evra

Valencia-Carrick-Scholes-Park

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Berbatov-Welbeck

De Gea, Ferdinand, Giggs, Pogba, Hernandez, Fabio, Lingard.

VW 1

Blatter wrote: »

Don't think so. SAF said that de Gea would play against Blackburn and Newcastle a few weeks ago. After the mistake v Blackburn, he didn't play v Newcastle so that can be seen as significant.

Team tomorrow:

---

Lindegaard

---

Smalling----Ferdinand

---

Evans

---

Evra
Rafael

---

Carrick

---

Scholes

---

Fabio

---

Berbatov

---

---

Hernandez

---

.

Maybe not the strongest team by any means but fúcking exciting would that be to watch. Include Cleverley if only he was fit and it would be an amazingly exciting and youthful team bar Ferdinand and Carrick.

You could be very right about being dropped for the Newcastle game being significant, but there may also be a lot of other reasons it happened. Does SAF have a conference tomorrow where perhaps the question could be asked?

Nalz

Rooney 100% out lads?

J. Marston

Scholes, why can't he be 10 years younger?

He controlled the game the other day but had to go off, understandable really. Hopefully he has another good 60/70 minutes in him for tomorrow.

Mitch Connor

Trilla wrote: »

Rooney 100% out lads?

Not 100%, you never can tell with Fergie.

As far as i am aware, Rooney didn't train at all last week, so with the Chelsea game at the weekend I would have to think he would be bench at best for this one.

Blatter

VW 1 wrote: »

Maybe not the strongest team by any means but fúcking exciting would that be to watch. Include Cleverley if only he was fit and it would be an amazingly exciting and youthful team bar Ferdinand and Carrick.

You could be very right about being dropped for the Newcastle game being significant, but there may also be a lot of other reasons it happened. Does SAF have a conference tomorrow where perhaps the question could be asked?

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing it tbh! I though Rafael and Fabio were pretty good on the wings against Arsenal in the cup last season.

I doubt many journalists will have the balls to ask SAF too much about de Gea.:pac: Most of them will be afraid of getting banned, and they know it would almost be a pointless exercise anyway because SAF would probably just snipe at them without telling them much.

I do think Lindegaard is seen as the number one at this moment in time though and probably until the end of the season with de Gea getting Europa League games. That's just my gut feeling on it.

Orando Broom

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Just looking at the goal again which some slatted De Gea for, on timesoccer.com. Even before the corner kick is taken the commentator says "De Gea, he's going to struggle to get through that lot." The defenders positioning was dire, which allowed a knot of bodies to block De Gea. Short of giving away a penalty, I don't think even Kane (WWE) would have got to that ball. Hadn't really analysed it properly until now, storm in a tea cup.

aperture_nuig wrote: »

I'd agree with you, but I think he made a mistake in coming for a ball that already had ~6 players under it. Not saying he would have saved it if he stayed on the line, but that would have been the better decision IMO. Although, it's very easy to say that in hindsight, not so easy when you've a split second to make that decision in a cup match against liverpool :pac:

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yeah - you could see it coming alright. As Ferguson said, the defenders should have cleared more room there and given him a chance. Agger getting a free header was the fault of the defence imo.

However, I would also take issue with how involved De Gea got with Carrol, I'm not sure he needed to deal with Carrol himself (would Carrol have blocked him off anyway?) which put him in no position to deal with the head that came in.

So I wouldn't criticise him for not getting the ball, but I would have a question mark over his actions on that corner regardless.

I only got to listen to the game on the radio as I was travelling (I have listened to more United games than watched this year!) and when I heard the commentary initially I did issue a string of expletives, however on viewing it, there was not a hope of him getting to the initial ball, however it is more than a 'storm in a tea cup'; part of a keeper's duties is to command his area and that is to organise the placement of your defence to maximise your ability to use your hands. The keeper has that advantage. Basically keepers tend to put two players on the posts to narrow the area of defence on the line and then he makes sure that all his Centre backs are OUT two to three yards from his line. This was the error. He should have let Carroll 'mark' him. Instead he was content to have his defence block any physical tussle between himself and Carroll. Keepers 99% of the time win the free for 'obstruction'. De Gea would have won this too. Bizarrely he tries to shoev Andy Carroll into the corwd of players. If the ball was planted in on top of him it should be bread and butter fro him to at least punch it clear off Carroll's head, at least. He should be catching it over Carroll.

Others at fault are Michael Carrick and Valencia for being on their heels and not attacking the corner and Rafael for coming off his line. Rafael actually leaves the line and goes to the left of the back post, i.e outside the post! Had he stayed on the back post he might have been able to get a leg to it.

Watch replays of the goal for Rafael's positioning. There is a camera angle from inside the goal.

tinofapples

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Just looking at the goal again which some slatted De Gea for, on timesoccer.com. Even before the corner kick is taken the commentator says "De Gea, he's going to struggle to get through that lot." The defenders positioning was dire, which allowed a knot of bodies to block De Gea. Short of giving away a penalty, I don't think even Kane (WWE) would have got to that ball. Hadn't really analysed it properly until now, storm in a tea cup.

You actually have a good point, a more experienced backline wouldn't have been bullied as much as that and would have probably protected the keeper a bit more.

Cantona's Collars

tinofapples wrote: »

You actually have a good point, a more experienced backline wouldn't have been bullied as much as that and would have probably protected the keeper a bit more.

That was mentioned on one of the highlight's shows,defenders as much to blame as they forgot about someone actually heading the ball.

Evra was also terrible for the second goal,completely out of position (for the umpteenth time this season)

Orando Broom

zerks wrote: »

That was mentioned on one of the highlight's shows,defenders as much to blame as they forgot about someone actually heading the ball.

Evra was also terrible for the second goal,completely out of position (for the umpteenth time this season)

He strikes me as a very emotive guy who gets wrapped up in the moment and as a consequence can tune out. I think he benefitted from the calming influence of Ferdinand, Vidic and Van Der Sar.

Nalz

Orando Broom wrote: »

He strikes me as a very emotive guy who gets wrapped up in the moment and as a consequence can tune out. I think he benefitted from the calming influence of Ferdinand, Vidic and Van Der Sar.

Should this have anything to do with his bizarre positioning sense this season? he's getting sucked in to midfield a lot. Often you find him in that little area behind the left CM and in front of the left CB.

Or am I talking bs and he's always done this but covered his ass better when counter attacked or taken on down our left flank?

Cantona's Collars

Trilla wrote: »

Should this have anything to do with his bizarre positioning sense this season? he's getting sucked in to midfield a lot. Often you find him in that little area behind the left CM and in front of the left CB.

Or am I talking bs and he's always done this but covered his ass better when counter attacked or taken on down our left flank?

He ends up out of position a lot but is covered when we attack as usually the opposition winger and full back get pushed back but as shown against Liverpool a simple punt upfield caught him out badly.Smalling couldn't even cover for him as Bellamy was running in behind also and would have had a tap in if Kuyt passed the ball square.

I've spent a lot of games shouting at Evra and why he goes missing at full back.He played well the other day but that one mistake cost us the game.

Orando Broom

Trilla wrote: »

Should this have anything to do with his bizarre positioning sense this season? he's getting sucked in to midfield a lot. Often you find him in that little area behind the left CM and in front of the left CB.

Or am I talking bs and he's always done this but covered his ass better when counter attacked or taken on down our left flank?

I think he had a lot of pace to cover his ass, I think his problems have been apparent for nearly two seasons now. I woudl say there is a correlation with the loss of pace and the mistakes. He never struck me as the wisest of players. When you look at Giggs and how he can maximise his ability through taking up smart positions, I don't always see that in Evra. Even in attack he can get over play the ball and walk it into trouble. It's not often you'd have seen him whip in a well flighted cross. He was more inclined towards bombing intot eh box and lashing the ball into the danger zone. He started out life as a winger too.

Nalz

Orando Broom wrote: »

He never struck me as the wisest of players.

+1. Bags of talent, passionate etc but his positional sense and capability to go missing sometimes has cost us especially this season. He has improved the last few weeks but we need him to step up and consistently produce. By producing I mean to make the mature decision every time and lead by example.

A captain of Manchester United, I'm just not sure. Robbie Keane was laughed at by a few when he was captain of Ireland and Spurs and I consider him a better captain than Evra.

Orando Broom

Trilla wrote: »

+1. Bags of talent, passionate etc but his positional sense and capability to go missing sometimes has cost us especially this season. He has improved the last few weeks but we need him to step up and consistently produce. By producing I mean to make the mature decision every time and lead by example.

A captain of Manchester United, I'm just not sure. Robbie Keane was laughed at by a few when he was captain of Ireland and Spurs and I consider him a better captain than Evra.

I always thoguht Carrick might benefit from the captaincy, force responsibility on him and force him to maybe beocme a bit more of a central figure in the side. I thought when Rio Ferdinand became captain it made him a much better player. Some commentators cited his maturing attitude got him the captaincy but I felt his maturity grew with the responsibility of captain.

In fact I'd go as far to say that he was one of United's better captains, maybe even better than Keane in so far as he was a unifying force. Not sure Keane would ahve handled the personalities of Tevez, Ronaldo, Berbatov and Rooney quite as well as Rio did. Under him it was a very harmonious dressing room.

VW 1

Tweet from a user called @JanuaryWindow who was called @MUFC_insider about 20mins ago tweeted a transfer update regarding united would be released in 10mins.

Just tweeted we have had a bid accepted for 25m for Sneijder. With almost 3000 followers it may spread quickly, but I'm suspecting it's a fake/wind up account.

Just a heads up in case it does catch on.

Son Of A Vidic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yeah - you could see it coming alright. As Ferguson said, the defenders should have cleared more room there and given him a chance. Agger getting a free header was the fault of the defence imo.

However, I would also take issue with how involved De Gea got with Carrol, I'm not sure he needed to deal with Carrol himself (would Carrol have blocked him off anyway?) which put him in no position to deal with the head that came in.

So I wouldn't criticise him for not getting the ball, but I would have a question mark over his actions on that corner regardless.

Probably no need to get involved with Carroll as you suggested. But I think it was more an instinctive thing he did and he probably didn't realise the extent of the bodies blocking his path. Evra and Co were dire though, letting what was essential a blocking formation get in De Gea's way. Vida would have scattered them like the good Shepherd he is.

Orando Broom

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Probably no need to get involved with Carroll as you suggested. But I think it was more an instinctive thing he did and he probably didn't realise the extent of the bodies blocking his path. Evra and Co were dire though, letting what was essential a blocking formation get in De Gea's way. Vida would have scattered them like the good Shepherd he is.

Vidic would ahve met Agger shoulder to shoulder too and put him into the middle of next week!

Son Of A Vidic

Orando Broom wrote: »

Vidic would ahve met Agger shoulder to shoulder too and put him into the middle of next week!

Well ain't that the truth.:D

homerjay2005

while i think our overall defending is not suffering as such since vidic got injured, our weakness in the air is shocking.

in the 3 games we lost since then, the crucial goals came from aerial route.

dor83

VW 1 wrote: »

Just tweeted we have had a bid accepted for 25m for Sneijder. With almost 3000 followers it may spread quickly, but I'm suspecting it's a fake/wind up account.

Considering how quiet it has been in general, transfer wise, and the fact that it's the end of the window, you kind of have to expect the Sneijder rumors to start again, and Ranieri's comments yesterday won't have helped either. It'll all be over tomorrow, for a few more months at least.

onemorechance

VW 1 wrote: »

Tweet from a user called @JanuaryWindow who was called @MUFC_insider about 20mins ago tweeted a transfer update regarding united would be released in 10mins.

Just tweeted we have had a bid accepted for 25m for Sneijder. With almost 3000 followers it may spread quickly, but I'm suspecting it's a fake/wind up account.

Just a heads up in case it does catch on.

The_Kew_Tour

Ah not this stuff again!

Mitch Connor

there is absolutely no chance of us signing sneijder - United would simply not be capable of doing a deal that big as quitely as required for it to be done tomorrow. Whatever Sneijder said about only taking four hours for a deal to be done (heard he said that, did he?) it would take weeks for United to agree the type of contract that Sneijder would want. United wouldn't sign off on ~200k and the perks/bonuses/image rights in a 24hour period.

United won't be signing anyone until late July imo.

Maximus Alexander

Mitch you should change your sig to something along the lines of "Player Ratings vs Last Opponent" because it points to the Liverpool game now.

Mitch Connor

LeighH wrote: »

Mitch you should change your sig to something along the lines of "Player Ratings vs Last Opponent" because it points to the Liverpool game now.

yeah - i really should. the form it links to is always the latest game, cause I reuse teh same form over and over again. Alas, i am lazy...

Son Of A Vidic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United won't be signing anyone until late July imo.

+1, there's no need to panic buy. We've don't pretty well to be where we are in the table at the moment. With most of the wounded expected back in the next couple of weeks, it will be good to have a normal squad again. Signings can wait until after the Euros imo.

Mitch Connor

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

+1, there's no need to panic buy. We've don't pretty well to be where we are in the table at the moment. With most of the wounded expected back in the next couple of weeks, it will be good to have a normal squad again. Signings can wait until after the Euros imo.

oh i thin there is a need to sign, and have been saying so for near 3 years, but I'm resigned to the fact Fergie is completely blind to the midfield issues at the club.

Mikeyt086

I'm tellin ya lads, once we play Ajax and Christian Eriksen tears us a new one, he will be ours! Cristiano style. Hey, Christian... Cristiano... :eek:

Son Of A Vidic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

oh i thin there is a need to sign, and have been saying so for near 3 years, but I'm resigned to the fact Fergie is completely blind to the midfield issues at the club.

Again I agree, but we don't want any noobs coming in at this stage of the season. Midfield has been a neglected priority for many years now. Yet ironically, I can't remember a United squad awash with so many strikers. The midfield dept needs two critical signings this summer.

Gibson's departure gives me hope that SAF has opened his eyes and will clear out those who have not delivered on his faith. The need to bring back Scholes must surely have made him finally realise his problems. He'll sit tight and see on the rest of the season with what he has. But lord god, if doesn't sort out the midfield this summer, then we'll have to have him assessed for dementia.

The_Kew_Tour

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I'm tellin ya lads, once we play Ajax and Christian Eriksen tears us a new one, he will be ours! Cristiano style. Hey, Christian... Cristiano... :eek:

With so many of ye mentioning him he better be coming to OT at this stage.

TheTownie

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I'm tellin ya lads, once we play Ajax and Christian Eriksen tears us a new one, he will be ours! Cristiano style. Hey, Christian... Cristiano... :eek:

Ya its a nice idea but I'm not confident Utd will be the ones to get such a widely coveted player but we'll see sure.

---

In other news, apparently Fryers is not willing to sign a contract.

Not the best source in the world but it wouldn't be surprising given the shít going on with the other two.

Mars Bar

These kids need a good shoe up the arse.

dahat

Mars Bar wrote: »

These kids need a good shoe up the arse.

Belt of a hurley more like.....

Mars Bar

dahat wrote: »

Belt of a hurley more like.....

Spoken like a true Tipp man.

Mikeyt086

Either that or United need a better contract negotiator for the kids. From hearing the reluctance of Morrison, Pogba and now Fryers to sign a new contract, I cant help but picture this woman as who they are dealing with...

dahat

Mars Bar wrote: »

Spoken like a true Tipp man.

Get em down to Tommy Dunne on a tuesday night and them kids will cry.....

Seriously though i wonder if Ferguson nearing retirement is having any effect on these situtations or the emergence of other clubs while we are stood still progress wise the last 2/3 years...

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I will break down and cry if Fryers chooses Spurs over United.

Cantona's Collars

dahat wrote: »

Get em down to Tommy Dunne on a tuesday night and them kids will cry.....

Seriously though i wonder if Ferguson nearing retirement is having any effect on these situtations or the emergence of other clubs while we are stood still progress wise the last 2/3 years...

I think it's just the culture these days,every teenager wants instant fame and fortune,a kind of X-Factor effect.

A couple of months GAA training would sort 'em out.They'd appreciate their lot after that.

Son Of A Vidic

TheTownie wrote: »

Fryers is not willing to sign a contract.

Not the best source in the world but it wouldn't be surprising given the shít going on with the other two.

O.K. if true, it's alarm bells ringing time. What da fúck is going on here? Turning into a proper Mutiny on the Bounty it is.

MagicMarker

That article says ''Morrison is now officially available and being offered to clubs at home and abroad'', since when was this official?

Anyway, I can understand why Fryers would be hesitant, Evra's playing like shíte and not even Fabio is getting a look in, why would Fryers think he has any chance of becoming a regular?

Drumpot

MagicMarker wrote: »

That article says ''Morrison is now officially available and being offered to clubs at home and abroad'', since when was this official?

Anyway, I can understand why Fryers would be hesitant, Evra's playing like shíte and not even Fabio is getting a look in, why would Fryers think he has any chance of becoming a regular?

Fryers is only 19. Wellbeck and Cleverley are 21-22, both showed patience trying to break into the first team (had to work damn hard) and both went on loans to improve themselves. Danny will get a contract, I wouldnt worry about that, its all posturing . .

But these youngsters (morrison/Pogba etc) need to know their place. In relation to these youngsters the problem is the players/agents, not the club/manager.

Fergie got it spot on with the likes of Tevez (a thing that people fail to awknowledge much) regarding the temperament and distructive personality these kind of players can have. If a player at 19, who has yet to convince Sir Alex that they can hack it in the first team (for one reason or another) is demanding a big contract and more exposure to the first team, I say good luck. Its not good enough to have potential, like Tevez you could end up ruining your own career or becoming a monster that has a detrimental effect on team morale.

I cant think of many players that Fergie let go who would of enhanced our starting team at the time they departed - He couldnt guarantee Pique a starting spot because of Vidic/Rio and rightly so . . He couldnt guarantee Rossi a start with Berbs/Rooney/Tevez and who could argue with that at the time ? And even at that, I dont think either Pique or Rossi would start if we had a fully fit team.

Any teenager who is not a Ronaldo/Rooney and is at United should not EXPECT anything other then to work hard to break into the first team. They should also expect to possibly go out on loan to get experience. Fergie has never let a youth player go that I regret and I know if he thinks fryers/pogba/morrison are good enough, he will give them a contract they want . .

DM_7

Fryers doesn't want to sign a new contract. I don't believe it for a second.

Mikeyt086

Drumpot wrote: »

Fryers is only 19. Wellbeck and Cleverley are 21-22, both showed patience trying to break into the first team (had to work damn hard) and both went on loans to improve themselves. Danny will get a contract, I wouldnt worry about that, its all posturing . .

But these youngsters (morrison/Pogba etc) need to know their place. In relation to these youngsters the problem is the players/agents, not the club/manager.

Fergie got it spot on with the likes of Tevez (a thing that people fail to awknowledge much) regarding the temperament and distructive personality these kind of players can have. If a player at 19, who has yet to convince Sir Alex that they can hack it in the first team (for one reason or another) is demanding a big contract and more exposure to the first team, I say good luck. Its not good enough to have potential, like Tevez you could end up ruining your own career or becoming a monster that has a detrimental effect on team morale.

I cant think of many players that Fergie let go who would of enhanced our starting team at the time they departed - He couldnt guarantee Pique a starting spot because of Vidic/Rio and rightly so . . He couldnt guarantee Rossi a start with Berbs/Rooney/Tevez and who could argue with that at the time ? And even at that, I dont think either Pique or Rossi would start if we had a fully fit team.

Any teenager who is not a Ronaldo/Rooney and is at United should not EXPECT anything other then to work hard to break into the first team. They should also expect to possibly go out on loan to get experience. Fergie has never let a youth player go that I regret and I know if he thinks fryers/pogba/morrison are good enough, he will give them a contract they want . .

I agree with 99% of that, a very good post indeed. BUT... Pique walks in.

lordgoat

Drumpot wrote: »

Fryers is only 19. Wellbeck and Cleverley are 21-22, both showed patience trying to break into the first team (had to work damn hard) and both went on loans to improve themselves. Danny will get a contract, I wouldnt worry about that, its all posturing . .

But these youngsters (morrison/Pogba etc) need to know their place. In relation to these youngsters the problem is the players/agents, not the club/manager.

Fergie got it spot on with the likes of Tevez (a thing that people fail to awknowledge much) regarding the temperament and distructive personality these kind of players can have. If a player at 19, who has yet to convince Sir Alex that they can hack it in the first team (for one reason or another) is demanding a big contract and more exposure to the first team, I say good luck. Its not good enough to have potential, like Tevez you could end up ruining your own career or becoming a monster that has a detrimental effect on team morale.

I cant think of many players that Fergie let go who would of enhanced our starting team at the time they departed - He couldnt guarantee Pique a starting spot because of Vidic/Rio and rightly so . . He couldnt guarantee Rossi a start with Berbs/Rooney/Tevez and who could argue with that at the time ? And even at that, I dont think either Pique or Rossi would start if we had a fully fit team.

Any teenager who is not a Ronaldo/Rooney and is at United should not EXPECT anything other then to work hard to break into the first team. They should also expect to possibly go out on loan to get experience. Fergie has never let a youth player go that I regret and I know if he thinks fryers/pogba/morrison are good enough, he will give them a contract they want . .

While the above is a nice sentiment. It's somewhat outdated. Why would a player (regardless of the age) sign for a club if they can earn more money elsewhere? I think alot of fans/posters (might be true of other clubs, i see it every day on this thread) think that united youngsters should just sign and be thankful to be playing for united. And tbh, i can understand the thinking but it's not realistic. You're expecting loyalty for some reason.

For me it comes down to United have to pay the going rate. Which has increased in the last 5 years. For example Wellbz deserves to be on the same salary as a first team reg. He shouldn't lose out as he's genuinely a united fan and has been with them all his career. If anything he should be on more for that.