Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen

No Pogba in the match squad is strange, what was the point in bringing him at all?

I can only hope he has an illness/minor injury or something and nothing more than that. Since none of us really know the situation I will be refraining from debate on it for the sake of my mood for the next couple of hours.

Fingers crossed its not a harbinger of doom

Cypher_sounds

Not giving the young very promising players a chance in this kind of game because they haven't signed a new contract is a load of boll1x, sure aren't they under contract at the moment and training everyday?

I would have thought the more first team action they get the more likely they would sign a new long term contract. From here it looks like they are messing around the youngsters when all they want to do is play at the highest level. I can't see what harm it does giving them a chance at the first team in a game at home against an average looking team especially when we are 2 away goals up on them already. We know what park can do, give pogba a start ffs.

kryogen

Its a reason why you shouldnt take the speculation as gospel all the time.

Or do some people believe ronaldo is coming back this summer?

I'm inclined to wait till I know a bit more.

Giggsy11

Steve Bartram @stevebartram1

Fabio, when asked if he'd ever pretended to be Rafael: "When I was young, yes, sometimes. In school sometimes, and at parties with girls."

:pac:

MagicMarker

Question, if City and Utd win all remaining games in the Europa League, at which point do they meet each other?

kryogen

Final from what i can tell

Giggsy11

MagicMarker wrote: »

Question, if City and Utd win all remaining games in the Europa League, at which point do they meet each other?

UEFA wrote:

Knockout phase
From the last 32 until the semi-finals, clubs play two games against each other on a home-and-away basis with the same rules as the qualifying and play-off rounds applied. In the last 32, group winners and the four third-placed sides from the UEFA Champions League with the best records are seeded, guaranteeing they will play the second leg at home. Teams from the same group or the same association cannot be drawn together. From the round of 16 onwards the draw is free.

...

Eathrin

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Jonezkreig

I still love my sig Mikey:D Let the siege continue:pac:

gracehopper

****in dirt tonight. The worst I've probably ever seen us play in Europe. 4s and 5s all over the pitch. Have they not learned from the champions league? That side is not good enough to play for Manchester united

Mikeyt086

It is an asbolute ****ing pisstake how many goals we concede from crosses/set-pieces. And yet we never ever beat the first man? Crippling ourselves.

MagicMarker

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes, I'm looking forward to tonight too, just like I do every European night. And just like every European night for as long as I can remember we'll play like shít and fumble the ball over the line once or twice. :pac:

:rolleyes:

wheres me jumpa

So our undefeated run in the Europa Cup comes to an end!

Depressing stuff, hope it doesnt have a knock on affect for the weekend.

Mitch Connor

player ratings link

Infuriating performance. Shocked and disappointed in the players tonight.

Giggsy11

That's how important Carrick is for us. Without him we play a midtable team.

Will I Amnt

Mitch Connor wrote: »

player ratings link

Infuriating performance. Shocked and disappointed in the players tonight.

I've never given anybody lower than a 4....that changes tonight.

How Soon Is Now

Madness didnt see that coming after the early goal.

So many players had a bad night i dont understand what Nani were even trying to do half of the time.

The back four were all over the shop. Cant fault De gea he did as much as he could and his save at 1-1 looks like it kept us in Europe.

Really need a performance at the weekend now anything like this and that could be the league down the jacks as i cant see City dropping points at the weekend.

adox

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That's how important Carrick is for us. Without him we play a midtable team.

Nah can't agree with that. It was more than one player, although the midfield set up was a problem from the start. The lack of effort in closing the ball down, the deepness of the team, þhe casualness in our own third was awful.

The_Kew_Tour

Park and his uncontrollable knees.

The man falls flat on his bollocks every freaking time he gets near the ball.

Lucky tonight we really were, but thankfully it did not come at a price.

Expect a much better performance on Sunday. Although I said the same after Blackburn game

uncleoswald

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That's how important Carrick is for us. Without him we play a midtable team.

A tad simplistic, I seem to remember us playing quite well at the start of the season without him. Then he added some stability while we were going through a rough patch.

peterswellman

This was a very experimental team. Without a doubt the youngest back 5 we have played with all year. The group haven't played a single game together as a collective unit. We played experimental tactics, with no holding midfielder. Two wingers and two men up front. It wasn't that bad. It was some much needed experience for the lads tbh. The people who are moaning when Pogba didn't play tonight are the same one's moaning at this result. You either want to test out new players, systems, tactics and partnership or you want to win games by any means possible. Which is it?

Mars Bar

peterswellman wrote: »

This was a very experimental team. Without a doubt the youngest back 5 we have played with all year. The group haven't played a single game together as a collective unit. We played experimental tactics, with no holding midfielder. Two wingers and two men up front. It wasn't that bad. It was some much needed experience for the lads tbh. The people who are moaning when Pogba didn't play tonight are the same one's moaning at this result. You either want to test out new players, systems, tactics and partnership or you want to win games by any means possible. Which is it?

In fairness, tactics, systems and inexperience is no excuse for not being able to pass the feckin' ball.

OctavarIan

I never want to see Park in a two man central midfield ever again. He might as well not be there.

Mars Bar

OctavarIan wrote: »

I never want to see Park in a two man central midfield ever again. He might as well not be there.

He really restricted Cleverley tonight I feel. Park was just running all over the shop chasing lost causes and I think Tom felt like he had to hang back and cover for him.

OctavarIan

Mars Bar wrote: »

He really restricted Cleverley tonight I feel. Park was just running all over the shop chasing lost causes and I think Tom felt like he had to hang back and cover for him.

Exactly, he leaves a giant hole in central midfield and might as well not be there. Ajax or any team will pass around him all day.

Just saw Ajax's second goal again. Why did four Utd players just stand still? Not sure what they were expecting the ball to do and can't quite believe they were all flat footed.

peterswellman

Mars Bar wrote: »

In fairness, tactics, systems and inexperience is no excuse for not being able to pass the feckin' ball.

I'd disagree. Take the experimentation of Park is the middle. He is hardly able to ping the ball around the place. What was his role tonight, he wasn't holding, he wasn't attacking, all he looked like was a headless chicken. He is normally in there to break up the play but we normally have a player like Carrick sitting deeper while he presses. It was an experiment and tbh, we might aswell, Europa League is a mickey mouse cup.

I'd prefer to see us starting that team(minus Park) next round than see the likes of Evra and Rio coming in. We'll never get a a chance like this to blood the youngsters like this again, and give them the chance to experience some European football without having any real consequences.

Mars Bar

peterswellman wrote: »

I'd disagree. Take the experimentation of Park is the middle. He is hardly able to ping the ball around the place. What was his role tonight, he wasn't holding, he wasn't attacking, all he looked like was a headless chicken. He is normally in there to break up the play but we normally have a player like Carrick sitting deeper while he presses. It was an experiment and tbh, we might aswell, Europa League is a mickey mouse cup.

I'd prefer to see us starting that team(minus Park) next round than see the likes of Evra and Rio coming in. We'll never get a a chance like this to blood the youngsters like this again, and give them the chance to experience some European football without having any real consequences.

So you think that players should be excused for not being able to do the very, very basic footballing skill that is passing because they are playing with different players in the same formation that has been used all season?

adox

peterswellman wrote: »

I'd disagree. Take the experimentation of Park is the middle. He is hardly able to ping the ball around the place. What was his role tonight, he wasn't holding, he wasn't attacking, all he looked like was a headless chicken. He is normally in there to break up the play but we normally have a player like Carrick sitting deeper while he presses. It was an experiment and tbh, we might aswell, Europa League is a mickey mouse cup.

I'd prefer to see us starting that team(minus Park) next round than see the likes of Evra and Rio coming in. We'll never get a a chance like this to blood the youngsters like this again, and give them the chance to experience some European football without having any real consequences.

But who were we blooding exactly? They are all fairly experienced players by now, bar maybe Cleverely.

Mars Bar

The only "experimenting" done was putting that back 4 together. Between them, they have a couple hundred appearances but they haven't all played together that often. Other than that, there is no excuse.

peterswellman

Mars Bar wrote: »

So you think that players should be excused for not being able to do the very, very basic footballing skill that is passing because they are playing with different players in the same formation that has been used all season?

Park has never been able to consistently do that basic footballing skill. Technically he's awful. Cleverley is juts returning from injury, same with Jones who looked bolloxed. If the midfield have to be bypassed, we get games like tonight. All the good play(which was minimal) happened when the midfield was bypassed.

lordgoat

peterswellman wrote: »

This was a very experimental team. Without a doubt the youngest back 5 we have played with all year. The group haven't played a single game together as a collective unit. We played experimental tactics, with no holding midfielder. Two wingers and two men up front. It wasn't that bad. It was some much needed experience for the lads tbh. The people who are moaning when Pogba didn't play tonight are the same one's moaning at this result. You either want to test out new players, systems, tactics and partnership or you want to win games by any means possible. Which is it?

Wasn't that bad? What game were you watching? United were brutal in that game.

Pogba would have done better in the CM than Park tonight. Actually i'd have fancied my chances of doing as good a job. I remember him contributing nothing to the team from the middle. And if you try and mention the first goal i'll laugh at you.

Knockout European games, actually any European games are not when you try out new systems and tactics.

peterswellman wrote: »

I'd disagree. Take the experimentation of Park is the middle. He is hardly able to ping the ball around the place. What was his role tonight, he wasn't holding, he wasn't attacking, all he looked like was a headless chicken. He is normally in there to break up the play but we normally have a player like Carrick sitting deeper while he presses. It was an experiment and tbh, we might aswell, Europa League is a mickey mouse cup.

I'd prefer to see us starting that team(minus Park) next round than see the likes of Evra and Rio coming in. We'll never get a a chance like this to blood the youngsters like this again, and give them the chance to experience some European football without having any real consequences.

What youngsters are you talking about blooding by the way?

I think Young has the least amount of european experience of that team that started tonight. It wasn't the young players that did poorly tonight, it was Park, Nani, Young, and if i'm being hard Clev and Berb/Chic.

You're talking nonsense imo.

peterswellman

adox wrote: »

But who were we blooding excately? They are all fairly experienced players by now, bar maybe Cleverely.

A back 5 that will probably have 10 years of playing together in the future? Without having to look at any stats, i'll bet that's the first time that group played together as a group. They combined haven't played 30 European games, so if that's experienced to you, we certainly have different definitions.

Then, they have to pick passes to a guy who cannot pass and will just keep giving the ball back. Nani and Young who were shocking and no excuses there. That leaves Cleverley, or just bypass the midfield totally and hit it long.

Red Crow

Really poor team selection. Clev, Park, Nani and Young were all extremely poor.

Mars Bar

peterswellman wrote: »

Park has never been able to consistently do that basic footballing skill. Technically he's awful. Cleverley is juts returning from injury, same with Jones who looked bolloxed. If the midfield have to be bypassed, we get games like tonight. All the good play(which was minimal) happened when the midfield was bypassed.

He's the only one of the 11 players who is technically under par. Lack of match fitness doesn't stop you from not being able to make a 5 yard pass or hold onto a pass from 5 yards. Seriously, it doesn't. I have seen numerous girls on my soccer course come in and out of the team with injuries and they have never passed the ball as bad as the team did tonight.

The midfield was bypassed, yes. However, even our wingers couldn't pass the ball properly. Nani was atrocious. Hernandez lost the ball in quick succession twice and that's only a fraction of his bad play tonight.

It was just horrible all over the place and NO excuses whatsoever can be made.

peterswellman

lordgoat wrote: »

Wasn't that bad? What game were you watching? United were brutal in that game.

Pogba would have done better in the CM than Park tonight. Actually i'd have fancied my chances of doing as good a job. I remember him contributing nothing to the team from the middle. And if you try and mention the first goal i'll laugh at you.

Knockout European games, actually any European games are not when you try out new systems and tactics.






What youngsters are you talking about blooding by the way?

I think Young has the least amount of european experience of that team that started tonight. It wasn't the young players that did poorly tonight, it was Park, Nani, Young, and if i'm being hard Clev and Berb/Chic.

You're talking nonsense imo.

It wasn't that bad. It's an unusual team selection. What exactly was Park's role tonight can you tell me?

I'm talking about a back 5 that haven't played together ever as a group. Who was the most experienced of the entire group tonight? Rafa? Who was supposed to give them instructions and lead the team on the field? Who was the senior man? We lacked togetherness but it's to be expected, tbh and considering the team we fielded we weren't that bad imo.

Maybe i'm just a glass-half full type guy.

Mars Bar

peterswellman wrote: »

It wasn't that bad. It's an unusual team selection. What exactly was Park's role tonight can you tell me?

I'm talking about a back 5 that haven't played together ever as a group. Who was the most experienced of the entire group tonight? Rafa? Who was supposed to give them instructions and lead the team on the field? Who was the senior man? We lacked togetherness but it's to be expected, tbh and considering the team we fielded we weren't that bad imo.

Maybe i'm just a glass-half full type guy.

You're the only person I have heard say that. Wish I had your optimism!

peterswellman

Mars Bar wrote: »

He's one of 11 players who is technically under par. Lack of match fitness doesn't stop you from not being able to make a 5 yard pass or hold onto a pass from 5 yards. Seriously, it doesn't. I have seen numerous girls on my soccer course come in and out of the team with injuries and they have never passed the ball as bad as the team did tonight.

The midfield was bypassed, yes. However, even our wingers couldn't pass the ball properly. Nani was atrocious. Hernandez lost the ball in quick succession twice and that's only a fraction of his bad play tonight.

It was just horrible all over the place and NO excuses whatsoever can be made.

A lack of match fitness doesn't affect your performance? Of course it does. The more tired you are the harder it is to concentrate and get your body to do what you want. Park offered no option for players trying to play the ball out of the back. None, he just gave it straight back to them. That's the difference between a Scholes and/or Carrick dropping deep. The come collect the ball, make space, allow the entire defence to push up and create gaps by just dropping deep and playing 1-2's, Park isn't able and that's mainly where we faltered.

I agree, our wingers were dreadful. Nani blows hot and cold and Young seems to just blow arctic. Awful tonight again.

I disagree and have certainly seen worse nights, where more experienced players have played.

peterswellman

Mars Bar wrote: »

You're the only person I have heard say that. Wish I had your optimism!

Meh, it's the Europa League.

Couldn't care less, Mickey Mouse cup. I was delighted when I saw the line-up(even though I wanted to see Pogba instead of Park). Shame we won't see it again after Sir Alex's comment's after the game. Great Rio and Evra every game from now on.....Giggs too.:rolleyes:

Fergie "I take responsibility for myself, because I picked too many young players at the back. And on European night's you need some experience."

Patsy fyre

A positive result against Norwich will put this result to bed. Hopefully this game will serve as another wake up call. We have been dog rough in Europe this season. Maybe we need to go back to playing 1 up and packing the midfield.

adox

peterswellman wrote: »

A back 5 that will probably have 10 years of playing together in the future? Without having to look at any stats, i'll bet that's the first time that group played together as a group. They combined haven't played 30 European games, so if that's experienced to you, we certainly have different definitions.

Then, they have to pick passes to a guy who cannot pass and will just keep giving the ball back. Nani and Young who were shocking and no excuses there. That leaves Cleverley, or just bypass the midfield totally and hit it long.

But you said blooding youngsters, I didn't think you meant specifically in European competition. As I've said they are all experienced enough players IMO bar Cleverley. Also Ajax are a fairly poor team. I though Fergie in his post match interview was off the mark blaming the performance on a young back five. He ****ed up with his central midfield selection. I feel sorry for Cleverley as he has so much to offer offensively but at this moment in time he needs at least decent cover beside him to function properly and he had no hope of that tonight with Park alongside him. Add to that the dismal display from both wide players and he didn't stand a chance.

I thought the twins were decent enough and De Gea made a super save to ultimately get us into the next round. Berba and Chico were lively for th first ten to fifteen minutes but were mostly anonymous after that.

There is a casualness and lack of application that seems to set in with this United team every so often and that certainly happened tonight. The only thing I can put it down to is a bit of arrogance which is worrying.

peterswellman

adox wrote: »

But you said blooding youngsters, I didn't think you meant specifically in European competition. As I've said they are all experienced enough players IMO bar Cleverley. Also Ajax are a fairly poor team. I though Fergie in his post match interview was off the mark blaming the performance on a young back five. He ****ed up with his central midfield selection. I feel sorry for Cleverley as he has so much to offer offensively but at this moment in time he needs at least decent cover beside him to function properly and he had no hope of that tonight with Park alongside him. Add to that the dismal display from both wide players and he didn't stand a chance.

I thought the twins were decent enough and De Gea made a super save to ultimately get us into the next round. Berba and Chico were lively for th first ten to fifteen minutes but were mostly anonymous after that.

There is a casualness and lack of application that seems to set in with this United team every so often and that certainly happened tonight. The only thing I can put it down to is a bit of arrogance which is worrying.

Playing in Europe regardless what competition it is is a totally different atomsphere. You can just see it in in OT with the games. Different atmosphere, the away fans are often fanatical and then it's even more difficult away from home.

I wouldn't say Fabio, Jones, Smalling etc are anywherre near experienced heads yet. Bloody hell, there was talk of Jones being captain before the match. Insane stuff. There was a real lack of leaders tbh, especially in defence.

I also thought the twins were decent, but a tad naive, which fliters back to my lack of experience. Youngsters of their quality should be getting game time, and tonight was the night for it. We got beaten by Ajax, in the Europa League, there has been worse games.

Professional Griefer

DDG got MOTM? He put up a picture with the bottle.

Disappointing performance, not our best side, and Ajax are a good side, wouldn't want to take anything away from them, especially tonight, they were very good.

I'm worried about the Norwich game, we barely beat them at OT earlier this season and they've been playing well, could be a hard enough game, badly need to win that. And with City playing Blackburn at home, big weekend in the race.

shadowcomplex

If united offered spurs 20m and nani or young for bale, do you think theyd go for it?

adox

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If united offered spurs 20m and nani or young for bale, do you think theyd go for it?

I say we should offer them both to be sure.

LostBoy101

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If united offered spurs 20m and nani or young for bale, do you think theyd go for it?

No.

peterswellman

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If united offered spurs 20m and nani or young for bale, do you think theyd go for it?

Why would we do that? Nani on his day is just as good as Bale. Why would we hand them 20 million to take one of our most gifted players? Shall we offer them 5 million and Rooney to hell, throw in Phil Jones too?

kmart6

Did he delete that already or something?!

Professional Griefer

No.

Not Nani in anyways.

Maybe Young, but I doubt it. Bale is fairly inconsistent, he was hyped up so much last year over a few games, and won a award which he didn't deserve IMO. He's been fairly decent this year, but would he fit in with us? I'm not sure.

Personally, I wouldn't like Bale, especially for the money he's meant to be worth.

CR 7

We could offer Sir Alex and £20m to get 'Arry. That'd be a real coup.

shadowcomplex

peterswellman wrote: »

Why would we do that? Nani on his day is just as good as Bale. Why would we hand them 20 million to take one of our most gifted players? Shall we offer them 5 million and Rooney to hell, throw in Phil Jones too?

Nani on his day can be better than bale but bale is better because more oftten than not he is better than nani, any player on there day can be better than an oposing player, its consistency that counts, your last point about rooney,phil jones and 5m doesnt warrent a response

peterswellman

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Nani on his day can be better than bale but bale is better because more oftten than not he is better than nani, any player on there day can be better than an oposing player, its consistency that counts, your last point about rooney,phil jones and 5m doesnt warrent a response

Well your 20 million and nani is ridiculous aswell. Nani is one of the best wingers in the world, he's improved on his consistency lately and one of few players who can create something from nothing and your suggesting giving him away AND 20 million for Gareth Bale. You would think we were stuck for options out wide or something. Baffling stuff and silly situation.

Tell me how it goes on Football Manager and then i'll hear you out.