Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

IvySlayer

Valencia and Nani are better than Bale. We don't need another winger.

counterlock

Why would you even consider another winger?

We could just prob get Khedira for less than 10 million....

kryogen

So, that was fairly poor eh, without going over the top, the problems stemmed from Ajax being really up for it, fair play to them. but mainly due to the lack of leadership in the middle of the pitch, Park and Cleverley was always likely to be a disaster, Nani was abysmal and Im really beginning to think Ashley Young will not be able to cut it for us.

The midfield was non existent, allowed possession to go to the opposition too easily and did not work hard enough to try to break up the play.

This led to increased pressure on a very inexperienced defense who have not played together ever I'd imagine, DDG comes out with his head held high, I thought Jones was very poor at the back, Smalling was better but not his usual self. The twins at least play with heart, but they need to learn how to control it a bit.

I can't emphasize how much I put this performance down to the central midfield pairing just really being a shocking partnership to decide upon, for that the blame lies firmly with the manager...........again.

The lack of confidence caused by the inability to retain possession in the middle of the park spread through the whole team and produced that pile of ****e we watched. Fair play to Ajax, they sensed we were there for the taking and went for it.

If the performances in Europe don't improve..... I mean, I genuinely can't understand how there is a complacency about the team considering the piss poor performances getting turned in! Is Fergie too mellow? surely not? you would expect him to be getting stuck into them when they perform like this. Hopefully he does, but it doesnt seem to be having the desired effect if he is.

Bilbao will put us out if we turn up and deliver the same level of performance we have in this round. The performances had improved in the league, I really hope European hangovers don't start to creep in to league form and the level of performance displayed in Europe does not slip into domestic matches.

Its very hard to get out of a complacent state of mind if you go into one, you can't get yourself up for a game on Saturday, not be bothered Thursday and get up for a game and raise your performance level again on Sunday on a consistent basis.

Not for the first time this season I am hoping the match serves to be a wake up call to the team and the manager, I am not going to hold my breath though, the guys who should have been staking their claim for a first team spot did themselves no favors whatsoever. They would have been better off warming the bench.

shadowcomplex

peterswellman wrote: »

Well your 20 million and nani is ridiculous aswell. Nani is one of the best wingers in the world, he's improved on his consistency lately and one of few players who can create something from nothing and your suggesting giving him away AND 20 million for Gareth Bale. You would think we were stuck for options out wide or something. Baffling stuff and silly situation.

Tell me how it goes on Football Manager and then i'll hear you out.

nani was muck tonight, the time for development is over with him, hes just not consistent enough, valencia, a way less talented footballer in theory than nani offers so much more

kryogen

peterswellman wrote: »

Why would we do that? Nani on his day is just as good as Bale. Why would we hand them 20 million to take one of our most gifted players? Shall we offer them 5 million and Rooney to hell, throw in Phil Jones too?

Woah woah woah

Nani on his day is far superior to Bale, maybe far is a stretch, but he is a better player then Bale.

Young, yep, Id be willing to let him go already which seems unfair, but then, I didn't want him in the first place, think Bale would be a better option then him on the left.

But Valencia on the right Nani on the left is grand, Young as 3rd choice would be ok to me.

Valencia, Nani and Bale would be superior I guess.

Maybe Young will turn it around, hope he does.

Edit: actually wait, just so Im clear, I would in no way shape or form offer 20million plus Young, a straight swap, yes. No big fee also though!

Plus, would he be versatile enough? I guess its no harm, but Valencia is kinda our direct route winger, do we need two of them? bit of trickery is nice to have too.

shadowcomplex

kryogen wrote: »

So, that was fairly poor eh, without going over the top, the problems stemmed from Ajax being really up for it, fair play to them. but mainly due to the lack of leadership in the middle of the pitch, Park and Cleverley was always likely to be a disaster, Nani was abysmal and Im really beginning to think Ashley Young will not be able to cut it for us.

The midfield was non existent, allowed possession to go to the opposition too easily and did not work hard enough to try to break up the play.

This led to increased pressure on a very inexperienced defense who have not played together ever I'd imagine, DDG comes out with his head held high, I thought Jones was very poor at the back, Smalling was better but not his usual self. The twins at least play with heart, but they need to learn how to control it a bit.

I can't emphasize how much I put this performance down to the central midfield pairing just really being a shocking partnership to decide upon, for that the blame lies firmly with the manager...........again.

The lack of confidence caused by the inability to retain possession in the middle of the park spread through the whole team and produced that pile of ****e we watched. Fair play to Ajax, they sensed we were there for the taking and went for it.

If the performances in Europe don't improve..... I mean, I genuinely can't understand how there is a complacency about the team considering the piss poor performances getting turned in! Is Fergie too mellow? surely not? you would expect him to be getting stuck into them when they perform like this. Hopefully he does, but it doesnt seem to be having the desired effect if he is.

Bilbao will put us out if we turn up and deliver the same level of performance we have in this round. The performances had improved in the league, I really hope European hangovers don't start to creep in to league form and the level of performance displayed in Europe does not slip into domestic matches.

Its very hard to get out of a complacent state of mind if you go into one, you can't get yourself up for a game on Saturday, not be bothered Thursday and get up for a game and raise your performance level again on Sunday on a consistent basis.

Not for the first time this season I am hoping the match serves to be a wake up call to the team and the manager, I am not going to hold my breath though, the guys who should have been staking their claim for a first team spot did themselves no favors whatsoever. They would have been better off warming the bench.

the thing is united are one of the few big teams in europe that still plays with wingers, this formation can be very exciting and the best for fans when things are going well but its also high risk football if you ask me,for a top side in europe and this is going back for years but united have never really been great at retaining possession, its partly down to the epl style of football but also down to the system we play, I mean look at the spanish team, they play mata and silva on the wings, 2 highly technical players that are great at retaining the ball, it can be boring to watch at times but it says it all really

kryogen

Against the bigger teams in Europe United do change the formation though to a more European one.

G.K.

Didn't in the CL final.

kryogen

G.K. wrote: »

Didn't in the CL final.

Which one?

G.K.

2011, played the same formation that he's played most games Rooney's been playing since.

kryogen

G.K. wrote: »

2011, played the same formation that he's played most games Rooney's been playing since.

In 2011 we played a more European style formation.

shadowcomplex

G.K. wrote: »

Didn't in the CL final.

playing 442 is ok v englsih teams, so v chelsea was ok

it was a mistake to play 442 v barca

peterswellman

shadowcomplex wrote: »

nani was muck tonight, the time for development is over with him, hes just not consistent enough, valencia, a way less talented footballer in theory than nani offers so much more

Being muck for one night now means he's a bad player? Bale was shocking against Liverpool a few weeks back, is he terrible too.

kryogen wrote: »

Woah woah woah

Nani on his day is far superior to Bale, maybe far is a stretch, but he is a better player then Bale.

I agree, as a matter of fact.

It's just, there is such Gareth Bale fanboys around these days that i'm choosing my words very carefully to enter into Bale>Nani discussion.

I'd personally take Nani everyday of the week over Bale.

kryogen

Why do people think we played a 442 formation against Barcelona?

---

VDS

---

Fabio

---

Vidic

---

Rio

---

---

Carrick

---

Giggs

---

Valencia

---

Rooney

---

Park--

---

Hernandez

---

Not quite a 442 really

shadowcomplex

peterswellman wrote: »

Being muck for one night now means he's a bad player? Bale was shocking against Liverpool a few weeks back, is he terrible too.



I agree, as a matter of fact.

It's just, there is such Gareth Bale fanboys around these days that i'm choosing my words very carefully to enter into Bale>Nani discussion.

I'd personally take Nani everyday of the week over Bale.

we are talking about soccer not your fantasy sex life

peterswellman

shadowcomplex wrote: »

we are talking about soccer not your fantasy sex life

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

JerryHandbag

Fergie taking the blame for tonights performance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17150134

kryogen

Rightly so, but he is blaming the wrong area primarily.

Giggsy11

uncleoswald wrote: »

A tad simplistic, I seem to remember us playing quite well at the start of the season without him. Then he added some stability while we were going through a rough patch.

adox wrote: »

Nah can't agree with that. It was more than one player, although the midfield set up was a problem from the start. The lack of effort in closing the ball down, the deepness of the team, þhe casualness in our own third was awful.

Play with the same team with Carrick in place of Park, see how we will dominate the game. We need someone who has good positional sense and who can maintain possession. Park for all his effors was poor with the ball.

Liam O

ah Bale is more consistent than Nani debate coming up. Just like it did last season when Bale had one good game and was suddenly the best in the world. Obviously Bale has been unreal in the last few months and is a great player but...if we go back and look at the early season...ah yes, in the first 8 games Bale didn't score and didn't assist bar one game against Wigan. Now these are games Spurs could have done with winning I reckon. Where was Bale then?

Bale needs his team to be playing well for him to do well. If Spurs don't play well he wont change the game for you and pull something from nowhere imo. Not that that's a bad thing and obviously he's really done well these last few months but Nani I'd nearly say is the main reason United won the league last season and is worth a bucketload of points a season. But sure let's just give him to Spurs and take Bale, see how that works out.

The worst winger at United is Ashley Young. I've never really understood the hype around him and is another player who I believe when the team aren't playing well doesn't look a decent player but when they are looks like a world beater, just not to near the extent of Bale. He wasn't needed considering he was signed as a first teamer and wouldn't have made any difference against Barca. For £16m and about £100,000 a week he is terrible value imo.

Fergie's problem in the transfer window right now is that he doesn't seem to want to buy from the other big teams. Not sure if it's a stubbornness issue or what but it has really held United back from signing some excellent players. I mean Madrid have offloaded some terrific players in the last few years for meager sums such as Sneijder, Robben and VDV, Garay among 4 or 5 other internationals who have gone straight into other big teams and now in their reserves/out on loan they have Khedira, Canales and Gago who would all improve United immensely.

lordgoat

Nani > Bale over a season.

I have no idea how anyone who watches united thinks that this is not true, it generally makes me question who they have been watching.

Mitch Connor

lordgoat wrote: »

Nani > Bale over a season.

I have no idea how anyone who watches united thinks that this is not true, it generally makes me question who they have been watching.

Nani on the right, certainly. On the left he is far more hit/miss.

If there was a chance of us getting Bale and making him the first choice left winger, i'd love it.

Mr Alan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Nani on the right, certainly. On the left he is far more hit/miss.

Exactly. Nani has been much more impressive on the right in his time at Utd.

MagicMarker

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If united offered spurs 20m and nani or young for bale, do you think theyd go for it?

lol

Nani >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bale

Has anyone figured out what position Young was playing last night?

adox

MagicMarker wrote: »

lol

Nani >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bale

Has anyone figured out what position Young was playing last night?

Well he started on the left, then himself and Nani swapped wings for a while. He drifted in field a lot without having any impact on the game whatsoever.

It's shocking how bad Youngs form has been the last few months. He started the first few games like a house on fire and looked an automatic first choice, but since then he's been poor. He has had some injuries which have disrupted his season, but speak to most Villa fans and they'll tell you he was poor for them for the last couple of seasons he was there.

I'm hopeful he will come good again. He has the talent and the brain to be a top level player. I do think he is a confidence player and seems to lose his form too easily, after a poor performance or two.

Liam O

Mr Alan wrote: »

Exactly. Nani has been much more impressive on the right in his time at Utd.

I think a lot of that is to do with the amount of time he's gotten consistently in each position. He's played long stretches of games consistently on the right but on the left he has normally been in and out of the team/moved to the right during the game so I wouldn't say it's that much a positional issue. He's better of the left than Young is anyway imo...

gracehopper

lordgoat wrote: »

Nani > Bale over a season.

I have no idea how anyone who watches united thinks that this is not true, it generally makes me question who they have been watching.

now....20m + nani for the little fella from spurs, i'd take that.

gracehopper

what did you' think of Erikssen last night?

bullvine

rumours cleverley injured!!

Mr.Crinklewood

bullvine wrote: »

rumours cleverley injured!!

Oliver Holt on Twitter says he has pulled out of the England squad due to an ankle injury. Hopefully just a Giggs type international injury.

Jimmy Iovine

gracehopper wrote: »

now....20m + nani for the little fella from spurs, i'd take that.

No. Why sacrifice one of our best players in one position for a player in another? It makes no sense.

If there was to be a swap then it'd be player for player imo. No money involved. Nani is in the top 3 wingers in the league, while Modric is in the top 3 for CMs. To add 20 mill on would be the stupidest decision of all time.

Giggsy11

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Oliver Holt on Twitter says he has pulled out of the England squad due to an ankle injury. Hopefully just a Giggs type international injury.

I dont think so. He is yet to make debut for national team so I dont think he will pull out unless he is genuinely injured.

kryogen

gracehopper wrote: »

what did you' think of Erikssen last night?

Looked good, but I think id have looked good in midfield last night

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I dont think so. He is yet to make debut for national team so I dont think he will pull out unless he is genuinely injured.

also, pulling out of the squad would rule him out of the game vs norwich at the weekend too.

lordgoat

Mitch Connor wrote: »

also, pulling out of the squad would rule him out of the game vs norwich at the weekend too.

Mitch was anything said about Pogba last night post match?

Mitch Connor

lordgoat wrote: »

Mitch was anything said about Pogba last night post match?

not that I heard.

Rumour going round is that himself and Fryers have been told they won't play for United unless they sign a new contract, loads of people saying it though i don't know if it is true. It wouldn't surprise me anyway.

Liam O

lordgoat wrote: »

Mitch was anything said about Pogba last night post match?

surely it was an injury?

Jax Teller

Mitch Connor wrote: »

also, pulling out of the squad would rule him out of the game vs norwich at the weekend too.

Doubt he would have started anyway . Reckon Giggs and Carrick will start in cm on sunday .

Giggsy11

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Doubt he would have started anyway . Reckon Giggs and Carrick will start in cm on sunday .

Hopefully it will be Carrick and Scholes. With Scholes we usually control the tempo.

The_Kew_Tour

Really tricky game this weekend.

I honestly thought Norwich would struggle in PL, so much so I thought they be bottom come may, but they have been very impressive.

JimsAlterEgo

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Really tricky game this weekend.

I honestly thought Norwich would struggle in PL, so much so I thought they be bottom come may, but they have been very impressive.

yes and no, they are a "nice" team that allow you to play but are on form. Could be high scoring

amiable

Has it been posted here that Tom Cleverly is injured again?

Not sure how serious

Pro. F

Horrible performance last night. Absolutely horrible.

Park isn't good in a two man CM, that really crippled the team. But the real worry for me was Young and Nani both playing atrociously. They were utter shìte. Last week I was thinking they just needed time, but there was hardly any improvement this week.

Cleverly was a bit better than last week and was starting to get himself involved in some good moves. He had a very tough job playing beside Park.

Berbatov and Chicharito were working off scraps. Chicharito took his goal very well as you would expect. Berba could have done more to hold the ball up, but he was working on a minimum of possession to be fair to him. He did massively fùck up when he was through on goal and tried to square the ball, that was terrible from him.

The defence weren't used to playing together so you have to cut them a bit of slack. There was some massive fùck up for Ajax's second goal. I think about four lads could have scored in the end.

The twins were good going forward and both got through a lot of work which is good to see.

If Cleverly is out injured that is a big loss. We might not need him just now, but over the next few weeks he will be essential as cover for Scholes.

gracehopper wrote: »

what did you' think of Erikssen last night?

Class imo. A player with real quality.

I wouldn't want to see United spend big money on him though. He plays the same type of role as Cleverly and so it would require three CMs to play them both I think. We are in more urgent need of a defensively reliable CM.

amiable

Pro. F wrote: »

Class imo. A player with real quality.

I wouldn't want to see United spend big money on him though. He plays the same type of role as Cleverly and so it would require three CMs to play them both I think. We are in more urgent need of a defensively reliable CM.

How much do you think he'd cost?

Liam O

amiable wrote: »

How much do you think he'd cost?

be looking at Suarez money for him I reckon so 20-25m

Pro. F

amiable wrote: »

How much do you think he'd cost?

That would depend on who's in for him, what state his contract is in, how Ajax feel about it and how he feels about it. It's always hard to put a value on the market and even more so with the FFP rules just now. With all those factors I think it's pretty much impossible to predict what he would go for in the summer other than somewhere between £10-30m.
Imo anything above 25m is a waste on any player (and I do mean any player).

But if I was a manager looking to buy a creative central midfielder he would be very high up my list. He is somebody I would look to before Modric, because Spurs are impossible to deal with.

*Massive Disclaimer*
This is based on the assumption that he has been performing consistently. I've read a lot of good stuff about him and from what I've seen against United, he is the real deal. I don't think I've heard anybody say he is inconsistent or has an attitude problem.

MoscowFlyer

Shame on Spurs for not bending over and letting their best players go :rolleyes:

MagicMarker

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

Shame on Spurs for not bending over and letting their best players go :rolleyes:

What?

kryogen

Erikssen looked good last night, but again I would have to state that up against that United midfield, he would have had to be very very bad to look bad.

I do think he has great potential though, however if Cleverley is going to be a first team player we wouldnt be able to accommodate both in a 442 formation.

even in a 3 man midfield you would be under pressure without the ball imo.

racso1975

amiable wrote: »

Has it been posted here that Tom Cleverly is injured again?

Not sure how serious

Just got a phone call from a city mate slagging me about it. He says it's a couple of weeks