Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

MoscowFlyer

MagicMarker wrote: »

What?

The whole "Spurs are impossible to deal with" part really grates me. Chelsea fans were whining in the summer that they wouldn't let Modric join. I mean God forbid a team just says no and sticks with it. It's actually refreshing to see a smaller club rejecting bids from bigger clubs for their best players. I have a lot of respect for what Levy is doing with Spurs now, they are different club to what we saw during the whole Berbatov saga and they got a fantastic deal there.

Backstreet Moyes

Christ how much do you think Bale is worth. €20 million plus Nani so what would you value Nani at. Nani has been the best winger in the league for the past two seasons. Its amazing how fickle fans are Nani has been our best player and most consistent player for the past two seasons. He has 2 or 3 bad games after coming back from injury and a flash in the pan player is worth what at least €50 million by your estimate. These people are probably the same people who slated Valencia when he had a poor start to the season and now he is our best winger after a few good games. It looks like we dont have much money and you want to sell our best player for an inferior and more inconsistent player and give them the €20 million that could be put towards the position we actually need qualify in. Baffling i need to get back into football manager my knowledge seems to be lacking.

Sgt Pepper 64

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

The whole "Spurs are impossible to deal with" part really grates me. Chelsea fans were whining in the summer that they wouldn't let Modric join. I mean God forbid a team just says no and sticks with it. It's actually refreshing to see a smaller club rejecting bids from bigger clubs for their best players. I have a lot of respect for what Levy is doing with Spurs now, they are different club to what we saw during the whole Berbatov saga and they got a fantastic deal there.

So they are not a "small" club anymore then?

Maximus Alexander

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Play with the same team with Carrick in place of Park, see how we will dominate the game. We need someone who has good positional sense and who can maintain possession. Park for all his effors was poor with the ball.

Carrick in for Park, Vidic in as a captain, and Rooney in for Berbatov. Then you have a dominant team. The problem with that team last night was it had no backbone or steel. There was nobody to take charge or grab the game by the balls.

kryogen

racso1975 wrote: »

Just got a phone call from a city mate slagging me about it. He says it's a couple of weeks

Did you ask him why he thinks that?

Doubt they will know the full story themselves till he is back at the club and they do a scan, also he didnt go down the tunnel for treatment, he was on the bench till the end of the game.

I don't think it will turn out to be that serious.

Jax Teller

Seen that Cleverley is still in squad for Sunday even though he's injured .

Pro. F

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

The whole "Spurs are impossible to deal with" part really grates me. Chelsea fans were whining in the summer that they wouldn't let Modric join. I mean God forbid a team just says no and sticks with it. It's actually refreshing to see a smaller club rejecting bids from bigger clubs for their best players. I have a lot of respect for what Levy is doing with Spurs now, they are different club to what we saw during the whole Berbatov saga and they got a fantastic deal there.

I wasn't whining, cop yourself on.

Spurs are impossible to deal with. Try buying a good player from them and they will rape you for the fee. This is the way it is.

MoscowFlyer

You want them to give out discounts?

Will I Amnt

On a lighter note,
Liverpool fans have asked the FA if it's OK to bring flares to Wembley on Sunday. Apparently, last time they were there, everyone was wearing them.

gracehopper

Pro. F wrote: »

*Massive Disclaimer*
This is based on the assumption that he has been performing consistently. I've read a lot of good stuff about him and from what I've seen against United, he is the real deal. I don't think I've heard anybody say he is inconsistent or has an attitude problem.

just to add to that, the commentator also mentioned that he's not missed a game for ajax all year. That kind of resilience is worth a few bob alone. I think Cleverly could be just as good. He needs a good run of games to get going again.

sorry more rant, the most annoying thing about last night was the lack of leaders and no steel at all anywhere on the pitch. Park as captain? great player and i know he's captained Korea but he's not a man Utd captain!

Our club loves the aul 4-4-2 but we need to play 5 in midfield in Europe, its as simple as that. Protect the back four retain possession and then build from there.

wheres me jumpa

Was Eriksen injured when he came off last night? Seemed a strange decision otherwise.

Pro. F

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

You want them to give out discounts?

Are you denying that Spurs are impossible to deal with?

Walking you through a simple and innocuous point in my post is not amusing. Please desist.

Nalz

Mitch Connor wrote: »

not that I heard.

Rumour going round is that himself and Fryers have been told they won't play for United unless they sign a new contract, loads of people saying it though i don't know if it is true. It wouldn't surprise me anyway.

Just curious as to how you would hear anything Mitch? Have you a source for these rumours etc

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

Are you denying that Spurs are impossible to deal with?

Walking you through a simple and innocuous point in my post is not amusing. Please desist.

I would assume the poster is saying that being 'impossible to deal with' is exactly what you want from your club. If someone wants to sign your best players, they should have to pay through the nose for them.

Our crappy sales of Van Nistleroy and Beckham were not the correct way of doing business from a United point of view, we should have got twice the price for both of them.

Spurs are right to either refuse to sell or set their price and stick to it; they are under no compulsion to be 'fair' to other sides. They have their own club to worry about and that is it.

Mitch Connor

Trilla wrote: »

Just curious as to how you would hear anything Mitch? Have you a source for these rumours etc

Loads of the people I follow on twitter are saying it, and these are people I would trust for United rumours.

That said, they are just rumours, so take 'em or leave 'em.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would assume the poster is saying that being 'impossible to deal with' is exactly what you want from your club. If someone wants to sign your best players, they should have to pay through the nose for them.

Our crappy sales of Van Nistleroy and Beckham were not the correct way of doing business from a United point of view, we should have got twice the price for both of them.

Spurs are right to either refuse to sell or set their price and stick to it; they are under no compulsion to be 'fair' to other sides. They have their own club to worry about and that is it.

What Spurs do is obviously the best way for a club to do things. I didn't say anything contrary to that.
(Edit to add:) I didn't say I had a problem with what Spurs do or that I resent them for it.
Moscowflier just imagined a criticism of Spurs that I didn't make.

gracehopper wrote: »

just to add to that, the commentator also mentioned that he's not missed a game for ajax all year. That kind of resilience is worth a few bob alone. I think Cleverly could be just as good. He needs a good run of games to get going again.

Yeah good point about Erriksen, I'd forgotten they said that. I agree about Clev too.

MoscowFlyer

Pro. F wrote: »

Are you denying that Spurs are impossible to deal with?

Walking you through a simple and innocuous point in my post is not amusing. Please desist.

You were coming across as if the clubs with the big cheque books have the divine right to sign who they want because they can.

As for your other line. Be more patronising.

Kylo Ren

Have to say I was impressed with the twins last night. Especially Fabio.

J. Marston

Keno 92 wrote: »

Have to say I was impressed with the twins last night. Especially Fabio.

I wasn't impressed with that. It's pathetic.

Pro. F

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

You were coming across as if the clubs with the big cheque books have the divine right to sign who they want because they can.

I said nothing more than Spurs are impossible to deal with and so Erriksen would be a better target than Modric. You imagined the rest.

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

As for your other line. Be more patronising.

Pay more attention.

Al Capwned

said it in the match thread - While i love the twins enthusiasm, and attacking instincts, and think they'll be very very good players for us for years to come,
it seems that Rafa gets booked for a rash challenge in more games than he doesnt, and is left waling a tightrope for the rest of the game - i'm just expecting him to be sent off as soon as he's booked.....

Gotta love them getting forward though, and rafael especially seems to put his heart and soul into everything he does on the field...

Now, how to stand up...... oh and to cut out the mad dives in the oppositions box....

Kylo Ren

J. Marston wrote: »

I wasn't impressed with that. It's pathetic.

Well I was obviously talking about performance but yeah that was pathetic. Nani used to be always at it but he has cut most of it out.

Liam O

Keno 92 wrote: »

Well I was obviously talking about performance but yeah that was pathetic. Nani used to be always at it but he has cut most of it out.

I've never seen Nani do a clean dive. He has made the most of contact but I think when you're fouled as much as him and Ronaldo that you are better off getting off your feet when you feel the contact to avoid injury. Nani has been branded a cheat because of the perception of Ronaldo as a cheat imo. Ashley Young is a bigger cheat than Nani but you don't hear much about that. Wonder why?

Kylo Ren

While Nani has not done it to the extent as Raf did there, he did have some theatrics that he has, for the most part, cut out.

Son Of A Vidic

That was some of worst shyte I have ever witnessed at Old Trafford last night. SAF commented post match about picking a very young defence. But he made no reference at all to the non-existent midfield, yet they were utter rubbish last night. Most worryingly of all was the second-half performance, which was even worse than the first-half. The least you would have expected was a step up in performance, but it failed to happen.

Then we have this young player debacle cropping up again. I can't believe that Pogba didn't even get a run out for any of these games. He's the one young player I would have chosen first. He's a big strong lad, so comfortable on the ball and liable to do anything with it. Critically, he is also incredibly difficult to dispossess, which is precisely what we needed last night.

I really hope the current rumours are not true regarding the demand that he signs a new contract. Because if they are, it would appear the club has lost the plot with their youth management policy. If Pogba and Fryers are next to leave, you would really have to start asking serious questions here.

kryogen wrote: »

If the performances in Europe don't improve..... I mean, I genuinely can't understand how there is a complacency about the team considering the piss poor performances getting turned in! Is Fergie too mellow? surely not? you would expect him to be getting stuck into them when they perform like this. Hopefully he does, but it doesn’t seem to be having the desired effect if he is.

You are not alone in thinking this Kryogen. Considering how bad the second half performance was. I thought to myself, did SAF make them all a cup of tea at half-time and let them have a wee lie down or something? Because there was absolutely no response at all in the second-half. Then I suppose it doesn’t help when there wasn’t even one leader on the pitch. This team is sorely lacking a serious leader, especially for games like last night. Someone who can drive the team on and just take responsibility.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

I've never seen Nani do a clean dive. He has made the most of contact but I think when you're fouled as much as him and Ronaldo that you are better off getting off your feet when you feel the contact to avoid injury. Nani has been branded a cheat because of the perception of Ronaldo as a cheat imo. Ashley Young is a bigger cheat than Nani but you don't hear much about that. Wonder why?

Here's one clean dive that you missed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XpEoCvW2Wo

I agree that his diving is over hyped, but he has over acted the injuries at times.

Kylo Ren

When Park is the obvious captain choice you know something is wrong. He's not the guy you will see screaming at players to cop on.

Pro. F

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

This team is sorely lacking a serious leader, especially for games like last night. Someone who can drive the team on and just take responsibility.

Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Jones - I would say we have an abundance of leaders. It's a lack of central midfielders with skill on the ball and two chronically out of form wingers that I would say was the problem last night.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Jones - I would say we have an abundance of leaders. It's a lack of central midfielders with skill on the ball and two chronically out of form wingers that I would say was the problem last night.

Yesterday we had 2 CMs who lacked match fitness (Park and Cleverley)
2 wingers who are playing 2nd game after back from injury, still lacking sharpness.
CBs who also came back from injury and not completely match fit.
Striker who rarely played this season and also was back from injury Berbatov)

It was good to give them game time but to lump everyone at a time was asking for trouble.

Can't believe SAF took such a big gamble. We could have got away with other positions but not by fielding 2 midfielders who lacked match fitness (one is not even a CM and both lack positional sense)

The_Kew_Tour

MUFC v Athletic Bilbao will be played on Thursday 8 March, 8.05pm.
And Athletic Bilbao v MUFC will be played on Thursday 15 March, 6pm

gracehopper

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yesterday we had 2 CMs who lacked match fitness (Park and Cleverley)
2 wingers who are playing 2nd game after back from injury, still lacking sharpness.
CBs who also came back from injury and not completely match fit.
Striker who rarely played this season and also was back from injury Berbatov)

It was good to give them game time but to lump everyone at a time was asking for trouble.

Can't believe SAF took such a big gamble. We could have got away with other positions but not by fielding 2 midfielders who lacked match fitness (one is not even a CM and both lack positional sense)

You are right, Fergie did take a gamble but I don't buy into the idea that everyone was bad because they all lacked match fitness. He could have gotten the balance of youth/players returning/form players a little better but the problem was the attitude was lacking last night, these are Manchester United players. They should be running through walls for the jersey. "We're Man Utd, We'll do what we want" We weren't doing what we wanted at home last night.

the girlfriend asked me last night, why do i like watching United so much as i have been giving out an awful lot lately. I told her to feck off!

Lets hope we are better against Norwich!

Your Airbag

Just thought I'd take us on a trip down memory lane to what I consider the best match I have ever seen, it certainly had everything. The 1999 FA CUP Semi Final Replay between Utd and Arsena that kept the treble dream alive.

We have all seen the Sky sports highlights numerous times I'm sure but recently the ITV extended highlights were uploaded, complete with post match punditry.

Match Hhighlights include:
A Beckham screamer
Keane getting sent off
The Gunners celebrating a disallowed goal
Injury time penalty drama
The Giggs wondergoal

Keane was messianic up until the red card. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BTIq6Jsc6E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4j49FuZ0us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyOMPzYcpjo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70iZ4G4Z10

homerjay2005

awful game last night,one of the worst ive been to...we were so so poor, of course not helped once again, by playing park in CM, we may as well have had 10 players for the first 60 minutes.

lucky to be in the next round. and yet another game where we condede in the air, the first was a punt into the box knocked down (handball by the way)and the second was another free kick...thats 17 goals conceeded through aerial or setpieces out of 21....

3 lads in at the back post unmarked, is shocking,though i believe they were offside from what ive been told by people who saw the game on tv.

hopefully cleverly is not out for 2 long, injuries starting to mount again.

counterlock

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

MUFC v Athletic Bilbao will be played on Thursday 8 March, 8.05pm.
And Athletic Bilbao v MUFC will be played on Thursday 15 March, 6pm

This is a nightmare draw IMHO. Llorente is really on form at the moment. I love Bilbao all the same, the loyalty the players have is second to none.

The_Kew_Tour

counterlock wrote: »

This is a nightmare draw IMHO. Llorente is really on form at the moment. I love Bilbao all the same, the loyalty the players have is second to none.

I be worried about taking on anyone if we play like we did last night.

They be very tricky one for us.

willmunny1990

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I be worried about taking on anyone if we play like we did last night.

They be very tricky one for us.

Why would you be worried?

Its the europa league. You can say you'd like to win it all you want, but you can say that about the charity shield and the league cup aswell. It would be a small bonus for ye to win it, but getting knocked out of it next round wouldn't be a disaster, ye could then concentrate on the league better.

I could understand you preferring to win, but worried about losing? I wouldn't be bothered TBH.

Son Of A Vidic

Pro. F wrote: »

Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Jones - I would say we have an abundance of leaders.

Well I did say about the game last night...

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Then I suppose it doesn’t help when there wasn’t even one leader on the pitch.

Jones is a kid and I certainly wouldn't put him alongside Vidic and categorise him as a leader just yet. He will undoubtedly get there though.

Still can't believe United were played of the pitch by an average Ajax team. More worryingly still, they were also a younger team than United.

And now Cleverley is injured again, I just hope he is not turning into Anderson and developing a penchant for frequent injuries.

Pro. F

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Well I did say about the game last night...

Jones is a kid and I certainly wouldn't put him alongside Vidic and categorise him as a leader just yet. He will undoubtedly get there though.

It was the bit after the bit you quoted that made me think you were talking about the team in general.

I would say that Jones is definitely a leader, but a defender just can't make the midfield hold onto the ball.

Son Of A Vidic

Pro. F wrote: »

It was the bit after the bit you quoted that made me think you were talking about the team in general.

Ya I see what you mean, it was the team last night I was referring to and more for the future when the likes of Vida & Rio are gone.

Pro. F wrote: »

I would say that Jones is definitely a leader, but a defender just can't make the midfield hold onto the ball.

He is but I think when he really settles in and is kept in a fixed position. Then I think his leadership qualities will really come to the fore. Personally, I think a team leader needs to be a midfielder. Positioned between attack and defence he can lead and drag the team with him. Bryan Robson and Roy Keane being classic examples of this.

homerjay2005

our home form this year is awful bad....last year we practically won every game, this year -

lost 6-1 to city
drew with newcastle
lost to BB
lost to palace
lost to ajax
drew with basle
drew with benfica

i think there was one year we lost 6 at home, about 11 years ago. i wonder how this year compares to other years in terms of home results. and its not just our results, our performances are really bad.

Son Of A Vidic

homerjay2005 wrote: »

our home form this year is awful bad....last year we practically won every game, this year -

lost 6-1 to city
drew with newcastle
lost to BB
lost to palace
lost to ajax
drew with basle
drew with benfica

i think there was one year we lost 6 at home, about 11 years ago. i wonder how this year compares to other years in terms of home results. and its not just our results, our performances are really bad.

This was the season you are referring to.....


2001 - 2002 season

Overall record

W D L
24 5 9


Home record

W D L
11 2 6


We finished third that year, 10 points behind the Champions Arsenal.

Eathrin

Pro. F wrote: »

That would depend on who's in for him, what state his contract is in, how Ajax feel about it and how he feels about it. It's always hard to put a value on the market and even more so with the FFP rules just now. With all those factors I think it's pretty much impossible to predict what he would go for in the summer other than somewhere between £10-30m.
Imo anything above 25m is a waste on any player (and I do mean any player).

But if I was a manager looking to buy a creative central midfielder he would be very high up my list. He is somebody I would look to before Modric, because Spurs are impossible to deal with.

*Massive Disclaimer*
This is based on the assumption that he has been performing consistently. I've read a lot of good stuff about him and from what I've seen against United, he is the real deal. I don't think I've heard anybody say he is inconsistent or has an attitude problem.

I wouldn't say that was necessarily true. Say if you sign a young player like Erriksen, they will most likely keep or increase their value by the time the reach the peak of their career. So at this stage the club either sells a la Ronaldo or keep them and hopefully by the end of it you've gotten 10-15 years of service from them, and if that player happens to be top class well you can't deny the value there.

We invested in Rooney, £30m at 18 and he has certainly proved his value many times over, we made a great profit on Ronaldo and we recently invested in the likes of De Gea and Jones who could be with us for at least 10 years.

The ones to be wary of are the Berbatov type transfers imo. The same reason I wouldn't be delighted signing Modric or Sneijder. They might all be fantastic players but they are soon to decline, not improve, roughly speaking, and with that their value drops and the club recoups nothing of the massive fee paid.

kryogen

When talking about how much money a player is costing you really have to take the whole deal into account, the transfer fee, signing fee, agent fee and wages.

The Rooney deal was 30million alone in transfer fee. Lord knows what to the agent and absolutely millions in wages and bonuses so far.

Its a lot more than a simple 30 million for him

Wouldnt be surprised if the figure was closer to double that at this stage.

d22ontour

kryogen wrote: »

Wouldnt be surprised if the figure was closer to double that at this stage.

Yet 30m in a fee and 30m+ in wages since is a bargain for him though ?

We are now in a climate were some thinking spunking 40m on modric with 250k a week wages or 12m a year over 4 years is what we need,98m for 4 years isn't what we should be aiming for...
Rooney is worth every penny/cent we paid for him without doubt.The market/game has changed somewhat since then though.
We cannot compete with clubs who can offer every top player 200k+ wages a week.
Our current owners have kinda put us in that predicament but moreso the cash flow of our current rivals has superceded our owner problem.
You might think winning stuff playing shíte for our club is ok, but it's not.We can't compete with these clubs nor do i ever want us to try,financially wise, but there is a problem in how we play,it's been there for a few years or so.

You made a thread style over substance, currently we are substance over style.

JerryHandbag

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

This was the season you are referring to.....


2001 - 2002 season

Overall record

W D L
24 5 9


Home record

W D L
11 2 6


We finished third that year, 10 points behind the Champions Arsenal.

Shocking season, and yet was only 3 points worse off than last seasons title winning total. Funny old game.

kryogen

d22ontour wrote: »

Yet 30m in a fee and 30m+ in wages since is a bargain for him though ?

We are now in a climate were some thinking spunking 40m on modric with 250k a week wages or 12m a year over 4 years is what we need,98m for 4 years isn't what we should be aiming for...
Rooney is worth every penny/cent we paid for him without doubt.The market/game has changed somewhat since then though.
We cannot compete with clubs who can offer every top player 200k+ wages a week.
Our current owners have kinda put us in that predicament but moreso the cash flow of our current rivals has superceded our owner problem.
You might think winning stuff playing shíte for our club is ok, but it's not.We can't compete with these clubs nor do i ever want us to try,financially wise, but there is a problem in how we play,it's been there for a few years or so.

Your right, this is why we don't tend to go for the older more established players most of the time. The total financial cost to the club is always taken into consideration and paying Modric 10-12 million a year in salary on top of a 40-50 million transfer outlay just isn't what the club is about imo.

Absolutely no chance of re couping any money from him either tbf. So does the club have 85-100million to spend on one player? No, I don't think so anyway. Not these days anyway, if ever.

The way we play? At times it isn't pretty, but most of the time it is effective, and considering the competition we have this is whats important at the moment. We have to stay competitive. One day the club will be debt free, the playing field will be more level etc, it is important that the club is still an attractive proposition to the best prospects/players when that happens.

Also, the manager does want the club to play better football, he has stated a few times now that he wants to see the team play a more Barcelona style of game, but at the moment it isn't possible, give me a fully fit squad to choose from and I'm sure it will be different, you have to remember the way the team was playing at the start of the season. The signs are positive for the future.

Players like Nani, Clev, Welbeck, Rooney, Young, Anderson etc can all play ball, keeping them all fit has been a huge problem this season. I know Anderson will be a point of interest for people in that sentence, but he can play ball. Keeping fit has been his problem.

The twins can certainly play attractive football too, Evra (when he bothers) Berbativ? The most important thing right now is to stay in touch of City. To make sure we stay competitive in the league. We have the players at the club, both current first teamers and reserves to play good football, we will surely continue to add players in the transfer market also.

The defensive injuries we have this season and the bedding in of new goalkeepers has led to a lot of games where the team has had to make sure it is solid first and foremost. I have no problem with this really, start from the back, you have to be hard to beat first, then you can add the flair.

United has always just had one or two stars anyway, the team is normally built on a good work ethic while relying on a bit of magic from one of the better attacking outlets to win games.

homerjay2005

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Shocking season, and yet was only 3 points worse off than last seasons title winning total. Funny old game.

last year was one of the poorest seasons in a long long time in PL history. its being used as a barometer of our progress this when as people keep saying that we have more points and all this, but the reality is last season was our second lowest winning title tally out of 12 i think.

tricky one tomorrow, i think we will get a 2-0 win and we will play ok. they are another version of liverpool and stoke, good in the air and will cause us problems from set play.

De Gea

rafael rio evans evra
nani carrick scholes park/young
rooney wellbeck.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

United u18 1-0 up against Wolves. Sam Byrne just scored a lovely goal.

MagicMarker

Cleverley out for 3 weeks apparently with an injury to his right foot, up until now he's been out because of his left.

Serious questions need to be asked about our medical staff. This is beyond ridiculous.

Dozyart

MagicMarker wrote: »

Serious questions need to be asked about our medical staff. This is beyond ridiculous.

yeah your right,it is a ridiculous statement!!!