Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Maybe im seeing through my United Goggles, but I dont think this tie is over yet.

I think we will get performance tomorrow night.

Ha! I had your optimism in some of the previous ties

If United are to win it will take them to keep Bilbao out while scoring 2, if Bilbao scores it becomes even more difficult and would certainly require a huge effort from our strongest available players.

I don't actually want that, I think it would have an impact on how the team plays at the weekend which is more important. Don't mind getting knocked out tonight, it was never a priority, of course it would have been nice to do well in, but it should never be prioritised over the league.

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

Ha! I had your optimism in some of the previous ties

If United are to win it will take them to keep Bilbao out while scoring 2, if Bilbao scores it becomes even more difficult and would certainly require a huge effort from our strongest available players.

I don't actually want that, I think it would have an impact on how the team plays at the weekend which is more important. Don't mind getting knocked out tonight, it was never a priority, of course it would have been nice to do well in, but it should never be prioritised over the league.

First Goal will be huge. They score first and it could be struggle.

United get early goal and we will see just how good this Bilbao side is.

Could be cracker.

I think United will go for it personally.

But every prediction I have made after United defeat in League or Europe has went tits up.:o (so put mortage on Bilbao:pac:)

Will I Amnt

I hope he doesn't go for it and risk players we need for the weekend.
We're better off out of this competition,end of story.

Getting a result after European games is always tricky and if it was to cause a slip-up that cost us the title it would be devastating and unforgivable

The only positives of being in that competition is a few extra games for the fans.
It's a nothing competition in my eyes,I know Porto won it last year and Fulham and Celtic had a good run in it recently but after that there's absolutely nothing else I remember from it.

Mitch Connor

For me, the Europa League is very much like the FA Cup and, more so, the Carling Cup - while we are in it I want us to win it, but if we go out I'm not going to be too bothered. The CL is similar for me in reality too - as long as we give a good account of ourselves I'm happy enough.

The PL is the only trophy in a season that I expect us to compete for and that I am genuinely disappointed, annoyed and angry if we don't. Everything else is a bonus or distraction from the league.

The_Kew_Tour

PL all day for me too.

I would nearly say that the Carling Cup is as good to win now as FA Cup for 2 reasons. First being that it avoids replay and second is that it's on at time in season when you want keep players fresh.

I would still like to win tomorrow night, it's me being bit selfish maybe (even if I slightly contradict myself also)

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For me, the Europa League is very much like the FA Cup and, more so, the Carling Cup - while we are in it I want us to win it, but if we go out I'm not going to be too bothered. The CL is similar for me in reality too - as long as we give a good account of ourselves I'm happy enough.

The PL is the only trophy in a season that I expect us to compete for and that I am genuinely disappointed, annoyed and angry if we don't. Everything else is a bonus or distraction from the league.

This sums up how I feel perfectly too, while the team is in competitions I want to win, obviously, but the main target every season is the league.

1. Premier League
2. Champions League
3. FA Cup
4. Carling Cup

This season you can slot the Europa League in between the FA and the Carling cup

Mitch Connor

kryogen wrote: »

This sums up how I feel perfectly too, while the team is in competitions I want to win, obviously, but the main target every season is the league.

1. Premier League
2. Champions League
3. FA Cup
4. Carling Cup

This season you can slot the Europa League in between the FA and the Carling cup

Same order for myself - but then the Europa League is a competition of failure for us, so that kind bumps it to last for me out of irritation as much as anything else. For other clubs, I would have the EL higher than the CC, but for clubs that should have the CL Final as a realistic goal at the start of the season, being in the EL is just a sign of failure.

When I say other clubs, I obviously don't mean ALL other clubs, but for a sizable proportion of clubs, the EL wouldn't be in their consideration at all at the start of the season.

daveyboy_1ie

That order from Kryo is what I agree with too, its always about the League for me. I understand the excitement of the CL is great and the financial rewards are much greater in the CL, but if United are league winners and lose a CL final I would be happy still. However if they won the CL and failed to win the league then I will be p*ssed off. Thankfully in my lifetime both times United won the CL they also won the league which shows how great an achievement both those season were (plus an FA cup to boot in '99).

Red Crow

We have to at least win in Bilbao, if not just for momentum purposes.

I'd hope to see:

De Gea
Rafael Ferdniand Evans Evra
Valencia Carrick Cleverley Young
Rooney Welbeck

I'd love to see Fabio in at LB, but that's not going to happen. Also I'd say Evra is causing us to defend 5-10 yards deeper. I'd also love to see Scholes or Pogba in there instead of Cleverley. I just don't see us being able to push up far enough to make Cleverley effective. I can see Rooney having to drop deep and Bilbao braking us to bits down our left side . Thank god Valencia is back to help out on the right.

The team we started in the first leg was an insult to Bilbao with such a shoddy 3rd rate midfield.

Hopefully Fergie has learned his lesson, eventually, in Europe this season.

Mitch Connor

Just copped that Smalling is travelling - interesting considering the talk of him being out indefinitely with a burst blood vessel. Must have been incorrectly reported.

homerjay2005

the only reason i want us to do well (apart from the fact that i dont like united to lose any game) in the europa league, is the financial benefits. our finances would be down about 15million if we go out on Thursday night, getting to the final would at least recoup 7 or 8 million of that.

ill be p*issed off if we go out, but that will be forgotten about if we are 4 points clear on sunday evening. thats all that really matters at this stage.

Your Airbag

We have made contact, amongst others

Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea and Tottenham have all contacted Lille to register an interest in signing playmaker Eden Hazard.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17360992

Which way will he go?

counterlock

Your Airbag wrote: »

Which way will he go?

Chelsea and Tottenham will be rudderless so I can't see him going there. So that leaves him the choice between success or money......;)

IvySlayer

How many fecking midfielders do City need?

Will I Amnt

counterlock wrote: »

Chelsea and Tottenham will be rudderless so I can't see him going there. So that leaves him the choice between success or money......;)

Unfortunately in that situation it's a good chance of success and good money Vs a good chance of success and crazy good money.

Son Of A Vidic

Your Airbag wrote: »

We have made contact, amongst others



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17360992

Which way will he go?

So is he primarily a winger? Because if so, it would make his purchase pointless for me. But that would be exactly what united would do, go and by a winger which they don't need one. Rather than a dominant CM, which they do need.

tvercetti

DDG
Rafael Ferdniand Evans Fabio
Carrick Cleverley
Welbeck Rooney Young
Chico

A mix of what I want and what I expect, most likely Evra will play and Smalling too if ready.

v3ttel

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

So is he primarily a winger? Because if so, it would make his purchase pointless for me. But that would be exactly what united would do, go and by a winger which they don't need one. Rather than a dominant CM, which they do need.

Agreed to an extent.

He can also play off the front, on the left or the right. He'd probably be as capable in center midfield as Nasri is. I can imagine him having the same impact in the Premiership as Robben had when he joined Chelsea.

I'd be worried if he went to City. Anyway, a true center midfield should definitely be a priority, but this lad is special.

I don't think we're in for him anyway. Didn't Fergie go and watch Fulham vs Werder Bremen and everyone thought we would get Ozil? I'm sure if we were in for Hazard, we'd not make it so blatantly obvious. I think it could be a curve ball.

Don't the latest financial reports show that we've ~55 million in the bank? I doubt we're going to blow half of it away on one transfer.

Most likely that we'll go for another Chico type "value" transfer and that'll be our lot.

v3ttel

DDG,
Smalling, Rio, Evans, Evra,
Valencia, Cleverley, Giggs, Young,
Rooney, Chico

More likely that we'll see Park & Rafael though I guess. I'd give Valencia some game time because we need him fit & ready asap.

Keep Carrick, Scholes & Welbeck for the weekend.

kryogen

Your Airbag wrote: »

We have made contact, amongst others



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17360992

Which way will he go?

Its just another version of the one already up tbh.

Nothing in it except creative journalism.

I read an article today from making****upasigoalong.com. It said

Messi agrees shock move to "boyhood favorite" Manchester United!

In a dramatic twist reigning World Player of the Year Lionel Messi has stunned Barcelona and football fans worldwide with the confirmation he wants to join Manchester United in the summer. When asked his thoughts on Wayne Rooney Messi responded, "he is a fantastic talent and it would be wonderful to play together in the future, who wouldn't want to play on the same team as Rooney?"

This revelation comes just 24 hours after Eden Hazard also declared his intent to join the Red Devils for next season.

The future certainly looks bright for Ferguson's side with the additions coming in to add to his already fantastic squad of young players.

I was as stunned as anyone else with the news, but would welcome him to the club.

Orando Broom

I know little of Hazard. The question I would as is whether he is Bastion Schweinstiger Mark II or not. If not United don't need him. United need a dynamic midfielder who can win a tackle. He needs to be able to pick a pass, get among the goals and set the tempo for the team. Scholes needs to be repalced but the simple fact is he does not have a replacement. Scholes was a great man for doing the donkey work as well as being able to pick a 40 yard pass.

MagicMarker

Orando Broom wrote: »

I know little of Hazard. The question I would as is whether he is Bastion Schweinstiger Mark II or not. If not United don't need him. United need a dynamic midfielder who can win a tackle. He needs to be able to pick a pass, get among the goals and set the tempo for the team. Scholes needs to be repalced but the simple fact is he does not have a replacement. Scholes was a great man for doing the donkey work as well as being able to pick a 40 yard pass.

So if a player isn't Schweinstiger, or doesn't play exactly like him, then United don't need him?

My god you talk some utter bollocks at times.

stesaurus

Hazard would be an immense signing. He could play off Rooney in a 442, as a wide forward in a 433 or as the point of a 3 man midfield.
We have Nani, Valencia and Young as wingers with Welbeck able to play as a wide forward. Might seem a lot but hopefully Park will be a bit part player and with injuries squad rotation etc he'll easily get a lot of game time.

I really don't think we'll be signing a traditional CM this summer. Carrick, Cleverley, Giggs, Scholes will all likely be here for next season. Pogba will get games if he stays. Tunnicliffe will probably be introduced if he doesn't go on another loan. Fletcher will hopefully make a comeback. Anderson well he's still here and nobody would be willing to pay big money for him so he'll likely hang around.
A lot of ifs I guess but unless a couple of players are offloaded then I really don't see us signing anyone. Fergie will keep a space in the squad for Fletch. And if we sign someone like Hazard to be our Silva then we'll be most likely only playing 2 CM's in there so that's enough bodies.

Also starting to think Hernandez will need a lot of extra training over the summer. He was away last year with Mexico and then injured so this year he needs to really knuckle down and learn how to link the play. Would also help if someone could sit him down and explain the offside rule. Maybe use that shopping for shoes analogy that works with the wimmin.
Very frustrating, the guy is lightning quick so he doesn't need to be going so early.

Nalz

How many games do you think Pogba will get next season?

Vertigo100

Trilla wrote: »

How many games do you think Pogba will get next season?

Think a lot will depend on if he signs the feckin contract

Hopefully if he stays he can be more than a bit part/carling cup player. Throw him in at the deep end in the league early in the season and let's see what he is about. Saying that he could be shipped out on loan to a premier league club.

Mikeyt086

If we signed Eden Hazard it would signal a change in style I reckon, and a change in style is what we have been crying out for is it not? The main complaint I read being how we get over-run in midfield.

If we were to sign Hazard, it would not be as a winger, it would be to play him in the David Silva role. And I for one think he would be a massive success. Carrick and Cleverley playing the holding roles... Could be great.

stesaurus

Orando Broom wrote: »

I know little of Hazard.

There's your problem!!!:D

Also just to add on your Bastian point. He started out as an explosive winger and moved into the playmaker CM you see today. Very few midfielders have the experience and ability to play that role from a young age. Sure even Scholes only matured into that type of player in his formative years.

Nalz

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Think a lot will depend on if he signs the feckin contract

Has he not?

by the way those tickets will be in the post tomorrow.

Vertigo100

Trilla wrote: »

Has he not?

by the way those tickets will be in the post tomorrow.

Nothing official yet just the report from sky. Cheers for that. I'll give u a text about transferring the cash

kryogen

Trilla wrote: »

Has he not?

by the way those tickets will be in the post tomorrow.

No, Fergie said after the game he was still making up his mind, nothing more since then. That he is in the squads is a positive indicator, but it is just that. An indicator unfortunately

Orando Broom

s.welstead wrote: »

There's your problem!!!:D

Also just to add on your Bastian point. He started out as an explosive winger and moved into the playmaker CM you see today. Very few midfielders have the experience and ability to play that role from a young age. Sure even Scholes only matured into that type of player in his formative years.

I know he was a winger but Hazard from what I gather is an out and out attacking midfielder. No defensive side to his game. Schweinstiger now has.

Anderson also started out life as an 'explosive winger' and was moved into the middle by United.

Can Hazard play in a conventional 4-4-2 as a central midfielder? If not he is not needed. That is the type of player United need. There are enough wingers in the club with different strengths and weaknesses. Rooney is United's creative fulcrum, you'd expect him to be the main man. as some poster stated the signing would precipitate a change of formation, Personally I'd have no problem with that but why not try that this year, the players are in the squad. United are more than well equipped to play 4-3-3 at present. I'll reiterate that United need a more dynamic midfielder than a David Silva type.

Nalz

kryogen wrote: »

No, Fergie said after the game he was still making up his mind, nothing more since then. That he is in the squads is a positive indicator, but it is just that. An indicator unfortunately

Ah balls thats what I get for not reading things.I assumed those links were to a report confirming his signature

Son Of A Vidic

I don't really care how the game pans out in Spain, because the League has got to be the priority. I just hope regardless of what happens, SAF gives Pogba a good run out.

Paul Tergat

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I don't really care how the game pans out in Spain, because the League has got to be the priority. I just hope regardless of what happens, SAF gives Pogba a good run out.

The league is of course the priority but I question anyone saying they dont really care!???

J. Marston

I won't lose too much sleep if we go out, I'm expecting us too but I want to see a performance. Bilbao brushed us aside last week at home, it was sad.

stesaurus

Paul Tergat wrote: »

The league is of course the priority but I question anyone saying they dont really care!???

Yeah I really don't understand it. Fair enough rating it a lower priority but it's very hard for me to understand not caring about going out of it.

United aren't entitled to win any trophies and should be busting a gut to do all they can after their failure in the Champions league.
It's a trophy, we're still well in it and should be not be treated with disrespect by the fans or players. Its this kind of bs that labels the likes of the Carling Cup as the Mickey Mouse cup and really grates me. How many players finish a career having never won a major/minor national cup, let alone a european winners medal.

Anyway Bilbao are not as good as we made them look last week. I've watched them numerous times over the last couple of seasons and I really feel we'll beat them if we have the right attitude. They'll score but I think it will be a relatively comfortable 3-1 win.
I also really hope they put the ball out for an injured player and we don't give it back, hopefully a goal will ensue.

stesaurus

Orando Broom wrote: »

I know he was a winger but Hazard from what I gather is an out and out attacking midfielder. No defensive side to his game. Schweinstiger now has.

Anderson also started out life as an 'explosive winger' and was moved into the middle by United.

Can Hazard play in a conventional 4-4-2 as a central midfielder? If not he is not needed. That is the type of player United need. There are enough wingers in the club with different strengths and weaknesses. Rooney is United's creative fulcrum, you'd expect him to be the main man. as some poster stated the signing would precipitate a change of formation, Personally I'd have no problem with that but why not try that this year, the players are in the squad. United are more than well equipped to play 4-3-3 at present. I'll reiterate that United need a more dynamic midfielder than a David Silva type.

Anderson was always central at Porto from what I remember, but he did play a lot further forward. Or am I remembering him wrong?
Anyway what was the point? You're backing me up when I stated that AM/Wingers can play centrally. So not sure where you're going with that?

Do I think Hazard can play in a 2 man CM, no, not at present he couldn't. However you can't base that as a reason not to sign him.
We've gradually brought back the 442 in the last year or so and it leaves us wide open. We need to operate with 3 in CM to compete in Europe, Hazard can do this.
Also saying that Rooney is our creative fulcrum, great but where's plan B when Rooney's form goes to shít or he gets injured/banned? Say hello Mr. Hazard

kryogen

Anderson has always played through the middle, he started out as your typical box to box midfielder, could score goals and defend well. Fergie's mismanagement of him and his injury history have made him slightly different, but he is still naturally a midfielder who does both.

If he could only stay fit and get another run in the team, people tend to forget that he was playing well when he was playing every week. I haven't totally given up hope on him, but if he does become a major player for United I will now be surprised

Will I Amnt

s.welstead wrote: »

Yeah I really don't understand it. Fair enough rating it a lower priority but it's very hard for me to understand not caring about going out of it.

United aren't entitled to win any trophies and should be busting a gut to do all they can after their failure in the Champions league.

The closer we get to the final the stronger the team that will be played,risking extra injuries and exhaustion to important players which in turn could have a serious negative effect on our league games.

We all want to win everything but the year that's in it and how tight it is at the top.....
It would benefit us in the league to go out

Orando Broom

s.welstead wrote: »

Anderson was always central at Porto from what I remember, but he did play a lot further forward. Or am I remembering him wrong?
Anyway what was the point? You're backing me up when I stated that AM/Wingers can play centrally. So not sure where you're going with that?

Do I think Hazard can play in a 2 man CM, no, not at present he couldn't. However you can't base that as a reason not to sign him.
We've gradually brought back the 442 in the last year or so and it leaves us wide open. We need to operate with 3 in CM to compete in Europe, Hazard can do this.
Also saying that Rooney is our creative fulcrum, great but where's plan B when Rooney's form goes to shít or he gets injured/banned? Say hello Mr. Hazard

When I saw him in the CL he was a winger.

Am I backing you up by saying that? Or are you just interpreting that way.

Look I'd love the City model of buying three or four players because United can but the problem is immediate. Buying for the future is fine but the deficencies have been there for a number of years and thus require an urgent, immediate rectification. If Hazard can't immediatley do a job in a four man midfield, assuming 4-4-2 is the vogue for the foreseeable future at United then he is not the player required. United do not have the funds to be buying on a what if. Anderson has failed not exactly a bargain.

£30m for a squad player is a lot, the rest of the time you'll have Hazard out wide, or replacing Welbeck or Hernandez and still the midfield will have at best an on-form Carrick with Cleverley or Pogba or worst Park or Jones or Giggs.

A lot of my concerns would surround firstly Pogba staying and secondly Pogba living up to the massive hype, if he does that then Hazard could be bought beacuse there would be scope for tinkering with formation, certainly in Europe as you've stated. You'd have three recognised CMs Pogba Cleverley and Carrick the two former with games and experience could be central to all that is good about United. Factor in Tunnicliff living up to expectation and making the step up central midfield becmoes a position of strength.

The fact remains that this season along with the recognised CMs; Jones, Park, Rafael and Giggs have been utilised as midfielders and Paul Scholes had to be reactivated. An out and out attacking midfielder won't fix the problems inherent in the side. United need a more complete player who operates at a far higher level that anybody currently in the squad. I cite Schweinsteiger as the archetype of the player United need because that is where the weakness exists.

If the abounding ignorance wishes to persist with the notion that Schweinsteiger isn't the ideal type of player that United should aspire to sign then what more can I say.

Mikeyt086

s.welstead wrote: »

Anderson was always central at Porto from what I remember, but he did play a lot further forward. Or am I remembering him wrong?
Anyway what was the point? You're backing me up when I stated that AM/Wingers can play centrally. So not sure where you're going with that?

Do I think Hazard can play in a 2 man CM, no, not at present he couldn't. However you can't base that as a reason not to sign him.
We've gradually brought back the 442 in the last year or so and it leaves us wide open. We need to operate with 3 in CM to compete in Europe, Hazard can do this.
Also saying that Rooney is our creative fulcrum, great but where's plan B when Rooney's form goes to shít or he gets injured/banned? Say hello Mr. Hazard

Also, while I am enjoying the way Rooney is playing this season, my absolute favourite year of Wayne was 09/10 when he was deployed as an out-and-out striker. Banging goals in for fun the way Van Persie is now. Bringing in a player with the creativity of Eden Hazard would take the burden off Wayne Rooney.

Orando Broom

kryogen wrote: »

Anderson has always played through the middle, he started out as your typical box to box midfielder, could score goals and defend well. Fergie's mismanagement of him and his injury history have made him slightly different, but he is still naturally a midfielder who does both.

If he could only stay fit and get another run in the team, people tend to forget that he was playing well when he was playing every week. I haven't totally given up hope on him, but if he does become a major player for United I will now be surprised

At what club??

Anderson was closer to a Ronaldinho type player with a work ethic. In fact if the lad was played wide but given a freer role where he could come inside you might find he'd recapture his form. The Liverpool game where he got stuck into Gerrard has turned out to be a curse on him. Porto started him on the wings but he was allowed to drift inside.

Orando Broom

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Also, while I am enjoying the way Rooney is playing this season, my absolute favourite year of Wayne was 09/10 when he was deployed as an out-and-out striker. Banging goals in for fun the way Van Persie is now. Bringing in a player with the creativity of Eden Hazard would take the burden off Wayne Rooney.

Would Hazard be replacing Welbeck or say Giggs and/or Park?

Valencia Carrick Giggs Nani

Welbeck Rooney

Whcih player would you remove there to accomodate Hazard?

Nalz

Orando Broom wrote: »

Whcih player would you remove there to accomodate Hazard?

Evra :pac:

Orando Broom

Trilla wrote: »

Evra :pac:

3-5-2 FTW!!!

Lads, it's 1996 again!!!

Nalz

Orando Broom wrote: »

3-5-2 FTW!!!

Lads, it's 1996 again!!!

uggghhhhh... I remember our soccer manager in School who was a Pool fan making us play that formation and me being left footed got the lovely job of LWB. Horrible position.

Orando Broom

Trilla wrote: »

uggghhhhh... I remember our soccer manager in School who was a Pool fan making us play that formation and me being left footed got the lovely job of LWB. Horrible position.

Hahah! did he make ye wear cricket jerseys to give the full effect?

Credit Image to soccer bible.

Mars Bar

From SAF's press conference. Berba getting agitated?

Sir Alex on Berbatov: "He could play tomorrow but I have good options with front players. His contract situation is we will be taking up the renewal option on the contract, but having had chats with him, he wants to get first team football and we need to consider that at the end of the season. At the moment he remains at United. I'd listen to what he says. I think he's concerned he isn't getting enough first-team football but it's difficult for me to guarantee that. You can understand he wants that at 31. It may lead to him looking elsewhere."

The_Kew_Tour

This sounds to me like he gone in summer.

Mikeyt086

Orando Broom wrote: »

Would Hazard be replacing Welbeck or say Giggs and/or Park?

Valencia Carrick Giggs Nani

Welbeck Rooney

Whcih player would you remove there to accomodate Hazard?

Welbeck. I think having 2 strikers and 3 AM's would leave us exposed. HOWEVER, depending on the opposition you could have Hazard instead of Giggs, Nani or either striker.

Now, I love Welbz, and I personally believe he will be a star, but I see no reason why at Manchester United, where we play 3 games a week and are absolutely guaranteed to have a ridiculous amount of injuries every season, we cant keep them all happy.

This is the last I'm going to say on the matter, not because I'm not enjoying the debate Orando (I am), but I actually just dont want to give as much time and thought as I have been to this situation, which, at the moment is nothing more than: Sir Alex has seen Hazard play live, we might make a move for him. I got carried away with Mesut Ozil, I allowed myself to warm to the idea that we were signing Sneijder... Not again. Until I see Eden Hazard being followed by a group of middle aged men with a bed sheet poorly attempting to block him from cameras as he jogs into Carrington, then I am not allowing myself to get excited.