Belvo lads who camp out at Xmas

Tim Robbins

What are your opinions of the Belvo lads who camp out at Xmas? It gets a lot of media coverage every year.

Part of me thinks why are people who are attending an expensive private school looking for money from the public? Is it not a bit ridiculous?

These lads - in all probablity - have a lot more money than the average Joe Soap so why go looking for money from the average Joe Soap?

If they didn't attend Belvo and went to another school (like 90% of the country) and donated the 5K per year they spend on fees to the charity they are asking us to donate it, it would surely generate a lot more.

Note: I know there are many people in Belvo who are pretty down to earth and very decent folk. I don't want to come across as picking on them but I think it's a subject that warrants some discussion.

Your opinions...

silverharp

you make it sound like they pay their own fees, I'm sure in most cases its the parents, so I'm not sure there is a connection.

doomed

I have no connection with Belvo and none of my friends or famiy have either but I think the young lads deserve a hell of a lot of credit. They could just as easily sit at home playing with their xbox. They are privileged sure but it always makes me feel better to see that they have some sense that not all are so lucky. Fair dues to them. Most people do SFA and that includes me.

copacetic

doomed wrote: »

I have no connection with Belvo and none of my friends or famiy have either but I think the young lads deserve a hell of a lot of credit. They could just as easily sit at home playing with their xbox. They are privileged sure but it always makes me feel better to see that they have some sense that not all are so lucky. Fair dues to them. Most people do SFA and that includes me.

And no doubt the OP too.

What an ignorant begrudging small minded contribution from the OP. People can't do anything for charity unless they are poor themselves? school kids try and make a contribution to charity and raising awareness and they deal with people like the OP on the streets at night too.

Tim Robbins

copacetic wrote: »

People can't do anything for charity unless they are poor themselves?

They can give their own money rather than ask people who have less then themselves.

AhSureTisGrand

There is something suspect about wealthy adults wasting time doing volunteer work:

If people really were altruistic, there would be much less volunteering.

This isn't some silly tautology. If these do-gooders really were motivated by the desire to do good, they would be doing something different. It would almost always be more effective to volunteer less, work overtime, and give more. A Dutch banker can pay for a lot of soup-kitchen chefs and servers with a couple of hours' worth of his salary, but that wouldn't provide the same feel-good buzz as ladling out stew himself, would it?

Link

A group of lads who are only as rich as their parents allow them to be is quite a different matter though

Wibbles19

What would you prefer they do for christmas, eat cake in front of the poor? They raise money for charity and from my own experience it had a lasting affect on my godson, who is in his mid twenties now and still doing charitable work

later12

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Part of me thinks why are people who are attending an expensive private school looking for money from the public? Is it not a bit ridiculous?

I'm really having trouble in identifying your argument.

Are you arguing

(i) that these young men are being hypocritical?
or
(ii) that a greater good for society might be achieved by Belvedere being wound up, the students going to state schools,and their fees going to charity?

Because quite frankly, it doesn't take a genius to defeat either argument. The former is an appeal to hypocrisy without in itself being critical of the boys' sleepout; the latter is a misinterpretation of the school's and its pupils' intentions as well as being factually incorrect).

Maybe there is some other mysterious logic at work here?

randylonghorn

Tim Robbins wrote: »

They can give their own money rather than ask people who have less then themselves.

And I'm sure their parents and parents' friends do contribute, all the more so because someone they know is involved.

But to me there's an even more valuable factor ... the lads themselves, most of whom will have lived in at least very comfortable circumstances all their lives, learn something about what it's like to spend time on the street. Ok, they're safe and they're well wrapped up and they're sure of being fed and they know when it's over that they can go home, have a shower and fall into a warm bed ... but it's still cold and wet, the pavement's still hard, they still get hassle from the odd drunken smartass, they at least get a small sense of what it's like at the other extreme of the socio-economic scale.

Tbh, I know a few spoilt youngsters I'd like to send off to join them!

Tim Robbins

later10 wrote: »

I'm really having trouble in identifying your argument.

Are you arguing

(i) that these young men are being hypocritical?
or
(ii) that a greater good for society might be achieved by Belvedere being wound up, the students going to state schools,and their fees going to charity?

Because quite frankly, it doesn't take a genius to defeat either argument. The former is an appeal to hypocrisy without in itself being critical of the boys' sleepout; the latter is a misinterpretation of the school's and its pupils' intentions as well as being factually incorrect).

Maybe there is some other mysterious logic at work here?

It reminds me of Ryan Tubridy asking me for money for Unicef.

My issue isn't with what they are doing to get the money. It's kinda of sad that it takes someone to run a marathon, go on a fast, grow a moustache or do anything that has nothing to do with a charitable act but just seeks attention to get money for a charitable reason. But that's a separate argument. It's sad people in a higher socio economic bracket seek money for charitable causes from those in less. Whether they be Bono. Tubirdy, or a private school.

Perhaps you think that the average person needs to be reminded to give to charity. I think the average person can make that decision for themselves.

later12

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It reminds me of Ryan Tubridy asking me for money for Unicef.

So one problem is that it's hypocritical?

Well that's easily nailed on the head.
(i) as others have said, these boys aren't rich; maybe some of their parents are.
(ii)as the above quote is a mere tu quoque argument anyway, it fails to offer any meaningful criticism of the sleepout.

Perhaps you think that the average person needs to be reminded to give to charity.

I think lots of people need to be 'inspired' to give to charity, yes.

I think the average person can make that decision for themselves.

They can. All the Belvedere pupils are doing is asking for donations, not putting guns to heads.

Are you opposed to all charity appeals, more generally, in light of your above statement?

copacetic

So now they issue is that according to the OP no-one should be allowed to do anything to raise money for charity? Especially if they are anyway above the median industrial wage?

The craziness and bitterness of the OPs ever changing position has me pretty stunned, hard to know how to argue with it since it is backed up with nothing but begrudging anyone trying to do anything for charity beyond putting their own money in the bucket.

randylonghorn

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Perhaps you think that the average person needs to be reminded to give to charity. I think the average person can make that decision for themselves.

I think the average person is more inclined to give to charitable causes if they see people getting up off their arses to do something on a voluntary basis to highlight the cause they're interested in ... whether it's camping out in the cold, running a marathon, jumping off Blackrock diving platform in Salthill on New Year's Day, or whatever.

I think the average person needs a reminder now and again, and *then* can make the decision for themselves. I have yet to hear of the Belvedere lads or any voluntary group extracting donations by force.

Interesting that people complain about chuggers because they're paid (and I agree, I must admit) and then complain about people doing things voluntarily!

Strikes me that if Ireland held a sponsored complainathon, we'd raise enough cash to keep every charity in the country flush for a year!

KamiKazeKitten

I know someone who was on that sleepout, apparently they raised around 140,000 this year. Fair play to them!
So you think that nobody should be allowed to raise money for charity, is that it?
May I ask what were you doing to help charities over Christmas OP?

Fuinseog

Tim Robbins wrote: »

What are your opinions of the Belvo lads who camp out at Xmas? It gets a lot of media coverage every year.

Part of me thinks why are people who are attending an expensive private school looking for money from the public? Is it not a bit ridiculous?

These lads - in all probablity - have a lot more money than the average Joe Soap so why go looking for money from the average Joe Soap?

If they didn't attend Belvo and went to another school (like 90% of the country) and donated the 5K per year they spend on fees to the charity they are asking us to donate it, it would surely generate a lot more.

Note: I know there are many people in Belvo who are pretty down to earth and very decent folk. I don't want to come across as picking on them but I think it's a subject that warrants some discussion.

Your opinions...

its the Jesuit way to be socially aware. yes, you might say they are a bunch of rich kids but they are made aware that there are those less fortunate than themselves. They do a soup run during the year when they go around to homeless people. hats off to them I say. very few schools are engaged that much with the poor as they are. i was in one private school where the whole school donated 50 euro to SVP.

Tim Robbins

Fuinseog wrote: »

its the Jesuit way to be socially aware. yes, you might say they are a bunch of rich kids but they are made aware that there are those less fortunate than themselves. They do a soup run during the year when they go around to homeless people. hats off to them I say. very few schools are engaged that much with the poor as they are. i was in one private school where the whole school donated 50 euro to SVP.

The Jesuits want an elite society which they control and manipulate. It has being a strategy for them to maintain their power. It is ridiculous creating an enviroment for the elite on one hand and then trying to pretend you are really interested in the very poor on the other.

If the average student fee is 5K than over 6 years you are talking 30K. For all the who - ha of raising 140K it is only the cost of sending 5 kids to the school ffs.

I would think it more charitable if they paid the money themselves instead of asking people who don't have the same money they have to pay it.

And it's a bit sad that anyone needs a rich kid to sleep out rough to validate giving money to a poor person. You should give the money to the poor person and not need the spectacle of a rich kid hanging touch to motivate a basic level of charity.

Coriolanus

The local pizzerias were happy with the event going by the amount of rubbish they were tidying away the morning after.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I would think it more charitable if they paid the money themselves instead of asking people who don't have the same money they have to pay it.

Were the sleep-out kids only accepting money from people lower on the food chain? Or were they - like every other person with a change jar - happy to accept money from any class of donor walking past? They weren't targeting the lower end of the scale. Also, like someone has already said, no doubt their folks donated too. I know anytime I've ever done something for charity my mum is the first name on the list.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

And it's a bit sad that anyone needs a rich kid to sleep out rough to validate giving money to a poor person. You should give the money to the poor person and not need the spectacle of a rich kid hanging touch to motivate a basic level of charity.

That has nothing to do with the Belvo lads, though. They can't change the fact that society needs constant reminders that other people have it bad.

This notion that 5 kids could forgo a private education and their parents give the same money is a nonsense. Any of us could forgo anything bar food and shelter and give the rest to charity but we don't. I never put you down as a Socialist, Tim. :pac: