Sennheiser HD 598s..

nesf

Got an Amazon voucher for Christmas and I'm looking for open headphones to go along with my HD 25-IIs. My budget is around £200ish and I'm looking specifically for open headphones for home use, I'm perfectly happy with my HD25-IIs for portable use. Wanted for music (classical, rock and metal mostly). Comfort is a must also.

Any other headphones that I should be looking at in this price range? I've considered Grado but I'm put off by reports of them being uncomfortable and being quite bright.

Morf

AKG are a brand you might want to check out too.

yimrsg

I own a grado like model (alessandro ms1i) which is better value ($99/109 ~ €75/84) than buying a similar grado sr80 (£100~€120) or sr60 (£80~€95) outside of the states. Although I've never heard a true grado, it's meant to be more refined in the treble but still retain a grado-like in sound. For guitars and some rock tracks it's beats my dba-02 in listening enjoyment. I don't listen to much metal so I can't speak with much authority on how it performs across the genre. It falls down for me when listening to anything classical, in that there is very little soundstage (how close the music and instruments sound). For rock that's a plus as it's great being right in the thick of it but for classical it feels like you're not getting the full experience like you were sat in an auditorium.

Maybe the solution is to perhaps divide the workload, you've got a very good rock/metal headphone in the hd-25 so maybe you could forgo headphones that shine in those genres. Perhaps instead focus on something that is perfect for classical? Are you using a portable player like an ipod or something like a pc or turntable to power your headphones as some headphones need an amp to really perform and you might need to budget for one?

nesf

yimrsg wrote: »

I own a grado like model (alessandro ms1i) which is better value ($99/109 ~ €75/84) than buying a similar grado sr80 (£100~€120) or sr60 (£80~€95) outside of the states. Although I've never heard a true grado, it's meant to be more refined in the treble but still retain a grado-like in sound. For guitars and some rock tracks it's beats my dba-02 in listening enjoyment. I don't listen to much metal so I can't speak with much authority on how it performs across the genre. It falls down for me when listening to anything classical, in that there is very little soundstage (how close the music and instruments sound). For rock that's a plus as it's great being right in the thick of it but for classical it feels like you're not getting the full experience like you were sat in an auditorium.

Yeah, it's somewhat similar with the HD 25-IIs, the soundstage just isn't that expansive. The 598s have a good reputation for a big soundstage which is what attracts me to them as a home headphone for classical especially. They're also very neutral which is a plus for me with classical/choral stuff.

yimrsg wrote: »

Are you using a portable player like an ipod or something like a pc or turntable to power your headphones as some headphones need an amp to really perform and you might need to budget for one?

I'm using a Fiio E10 Amp/DAC to drive headphones at home. My E7 died on me due to battery failure so I'm going to pick up an E5 as an amp to work with my iPod, the iPod alone doesn't drive the HD25-IIs enough for me. The idea was that I can't use the DAC in the E7 anyway with the iPod so I might as well just get a cheap amp to do out and about work and a separate no battery DAC/Amp for home use.

yimrsg

Sounds like you're all sorted then. When you're going to buy from amazon.co.uk then use camelcamelcamel.com to compare the price changes over time.

598 amazon price history:
http://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Sennheiser-HD-598-Circumaural-Headphones/product/B0042A8CW2
558 amazon price history:
http://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones-Technology/product/B004FEEY9A

Also check out this comparing the cheaper 558 slightly modded vs 598:
http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
The same mod was possible with the past generation models the 555 and the 595.

nesf

yimrsg wrote: »

Also check out this comparing the cheaper 558 slightly modded vs 598:
http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
The same mod was possible with the past generation models the 555 and the 595.

There's a different driver in the 598s to the 558s (this wasn't the case with the 555s and 595s I believe) so the modded version isn't a proper substitute really. There's a lot of people claiming that the 598 and 558 drivers are the exact same and the difference is in the physical characteristics of the headphones but they're wrong.

yimrsg

nesf wrote: »

There's a different driver in the 598s to the 558s (this wasn't the case with the 555s and 595s I believe) so the modded version isn't a proper substitute really. There's a lot of people claiming that the 598 and 558 drivers are the exact same and the difference is in the physical characteristics of the headphones but they're wrong.

I was just going from the link, the author said they had the same serial number for the driver in the 598 and 558. It could be a case that there is other subtle differences like silver cable in one and copper in the other. I know that Grado generally tune the same drivers to sound differently so even though the same driver is in different headphones it sounds different.

nesf

yimrsg wrote: »

I was just going from the link, the author said they had the same serial number for the driver in the 598 and 558. It could be a case that there is other subtle differences like silver cable in one and copper in the other. I know that Grado generally tune the same drivers to sound differently so even though the same driver is in different headphones it sounds different.

Yeah there's a difference in the frequency response and the noise level between the drivers put in the 558 and 598. They could be the same driver design but at different quality levels or similar.

yimrsg

nesf wrote: »

Yeah there's a difference in the frequency response and the noise level between the drivers put in the 558 and 598. They could be the same driver design but at different quality levels or similar.

Yeah it's very difficult to say with any authority what's identical and what's not. The old models 555 and 595 had similar discrepancies with their frequency responses.

Either way that whole group of sennheisers are very attractive choices. Good luck with whatever you end up purchasing.

nesf

yimrsg wrote: »

Yeah it's very difficult to say with any authority what's identical and what's not. The old models 555 and 595 had similar discrepancies with their frequency responses.

Either way that whole group of sennheisers are very attractive choices. Good luck with whatever you end up purchasing.

I went for the 598 in the end. Thanks for the advice.

nesf

Just got them. Very happy with them for classical/choral/opera, pleasantly surprised by how they handle rock and metal. The bass isn't as full as with the HD25-IIs but they're far from unpleasant to listen to with rock and metal for me. Then I'm very far from being a basshead.

ntlbell

nesf wrote: »

Just got them. Very happy with them for classical/choral/opera, pleasantly surprised by how they handle rock and metal. The bass isn't as full as with the HD25-IIs but they're far from unpleasant to listen to with rock and metal for me. Then I'm very far from being a basshead.

If you put them through a half decent amp the bass opens up on them.

But if you were shelling out 200 bucks I can't see why you didn't go a little further and get the HD 600/650

A grado would have been a waste of money for the type of music you wanted to listen to.

nesf

ntlbell wrote: »

If you put them through a half decent amp the bass opens up on them.

But if you were shelling out 200 bucks I can't see why you didn't go a little further and get the HD 600/650

A grado would have been a waste of money for the type of music you wanted to listen to.

I had a voucher for 200 quid. Didn't have another 100 handy for the 6xx series. Also the 6xx series are much harder to drive. The bass is fine on a Fiio E10, I'm just comparing them to a closed headphone which had a much stronger bass response (too strong for classical actually).

nesf

Wife's reaction when she finally got around to listening to Beethoven's Ninth on there:

"I'm hearing things in the music I've never heard before"
"The instruments are so clearly distinct from each other, it's not just a single wall of sound"
"There's a lovely 3D effect"
"How much did these cost?" (read: can I get these too without having to sacrifice much for it)

A pretty good sign I think...

ntlbell

nesf wrote: »

Wife's reaction when she finally got around to listening to Beethoven's Ninth on there:

"I'm hearing things in the music I've never heard before"
"The instruments are so clearly distinct from each other, it's not just a single wall of sound"
"There's a lovely 3D effect"
"How much did these cost?" (read: can I get these too without having to sacrifice much for it)

A pretty good sign I think...

Always a great feeling when someone "gets" it

copacetic

nesf wrote: »

Wife's reaction when she finally got around to listening to Beethoven's Ninth on there:

"I'm hearing things in the music I've never heard before"
"The instruments are so clearly distinct from each other, it's not just a single wall of sound"
"There's a lovely 3D effect"
"How much did these cost?" (read: can I get these too without having to sacrifice much for it)

A pretty good sign I think...

Would you say you are hearing things you wouldnt hear with the 25s? i.e they are known as a pro monitor phone and I've never thought you would be missing anything with them. What do the 598s add over them in particular, is it just the open back or do you feel there is more too it?

nesf

copacetic wrote: »

Would you say you are hearing things you wouldnt hear with the 25s? i.e they are known as a pro monitor phone and I've never thought you would be missing anything with them. What do the 598s add over them in particular, is it just the open back or do you feel there is more too it?

It's really hard to tell, the sound signatures are so different. It sounds really different to begin with which will cause one to imagine things that aren't there because something is more or less emphasised. Bigger soundstage too and better separation changes things a lot as well.

What they add:

More neutral bass and highs.
Much, much bigger soundstage.
Better separation of instruments.
Potentially more detailed but I'm not sure if it's my mind playing tricks on me or not.

So very good for classical in comparison.

What they lose:

The visceral bass punch of the 25s. You don't *feel* the music as much with these with rock/metal.

copacetic

Thanks for the info and tips nesf, been rocking the 598s for a week or so now and am pretty impressed. Definitely feel that I prefer them to the 25s and the 650s also. A little hard to put a finger on the real differences but for sure they are very comfortable and I do think I'm getting more separation and detail without being as in your face as the 25s. Could be just that they are new but we will see.

Brian

Better than HD650s and HD25s... how intriguing.

copacetic

Woah there! I didn't say better, I said I feel I prefer them! Very careful I was too...

Brian

copacetic wrote: »

Woah there! I didn't say better, I said I feel I prefer them! Very careful I was too...

Audio is rather subjective I'd be careful with those ambivalent terms!

marko93

nesf wrote: »

Wife's reaction when she finally got around to listening to Beethoven's Ninth on there:

"I'm hearing things in the music I've never heard before"
"The instruments are so clearly distinct from each other, it's not just a single wall of sound"
"There's a lovely 3D effect"
"How much did these cost?" (read: can I get these too without having to sacrifice much for it)

A pretty good sign I think...

I love when family members enjoy the headphones. I give fair dues to your Wife for that, her review was better than some of the crap I've seen when describing headphones. Also, how's that E10? Is it worth it?

nesf

marko93 wrote: »

Also, how's that E10? Is it worth it?

It does the job it needs to do (i.e. make the music louder). I haven't found it added to or took anything away from the music quality. I'm not happy with the volume of the HD598s unamped off anything except my Macbook Pro which has a better headphone amp than most headphone outs.

marko93

nesf wrote: »

It does the job it needs to do (i.e. make the music louder). I haven't found it added to or took anything away from the music quality. I'm not happy with the volume of the HD598s unamped off anything except my Macbook Pro which has a better headphone amp than most headphone outs.

Thinking it may be a tad bit of overkill for the UE10s i ordered, from what I've read, people say they need a bit of extra juice to really shine, thanks though

nesf

marko93 wrote: »

Thinking it may be a tad bit of overkill for the UE10s i ordered, from what I've read, people say they need a bit of extra juice to really shine, thanks though

Your biggest problem with them will be noise on the line. They're (if memory serves) quite sensitive headphones so an external DAC might work quite well with them if you're going to be using them a lot at the PC (PC headphone outs can have quite a bit of noise in them for high sensitivity headphones). IEMs can really show up how much electrical noise is near the DAC/leads.

marko93

nesf wrote: »

Your biggest problem with them will be noise on the line. They're (if memory serves) quite sensitive headphones so an external DAC might work quite well with them if you're going to be using them a lot at the PC (PC headphone outs can have quite a bit of noise in them for high sensitivity headphones). IEMs can really show up how much electrical noise is near the DAC/leads.

Only got them today and I see exactly what you mean. May look into a DAC if the noise becomes a pain.

Thanks for the advice!

nesf

Whatever you do, don't use the headphone out ports at the front of the PC (if it's a desktop). Those are far, far noisier than the ones at the back. Get an extension cable if this is a problem to reach.

If it's a laptop, then only an external DAC will reduce the noise I'm afraid. But again the IEMs will show up any noise on the DAC (and there will be some noise there usually with very sensitive IEMs).

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, running a laptop off a battery will generate far less noise than if you are running it off the mains.

marko93

nesf wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't use the headphone out ports at the front of the PC (if it's a desktop). Those are far, far noisier than the ones at the back. Get an extension cable if this is a problem to reach.

If it's a laptop, then only an external DAC will reduce the noise I'm afraid. But again the IEMs will show up any noise on the DAC (and there will be some noise there usually with very sensitive IEMs).

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, running a laptop off a battery will generate far less noise than if you are running it off the mains.

Thanks! Unfourtantly my laptop isn't very capable without being on the mains.