boards.ie's policy on depression/suicide related threads

Following on from Kasabian's seemingly farewell thread here, I just thought it would be a good idea to ask about whether boards.ie has a policy on depression/suicide related threads? I know Personal Issues has a policy of locking any threads which allude to a poster committing suicide.

While Kasabian's thread doesn't fully allude to suicide and could be just about this specific user leaving to improve their life, it is likely to happen again, especially more now that people are more willing to discuss this issue.

Steve

I would think that current policy is sound on this - lock the thread and give links to places where there are professionals who can deal with the situation. I don't think feedback is either qualified or should be willing to host such threads.

Sorry if that sounds dismissive, it's not, it's just that there are better ways of dealing with this issue.

That's only my opinion btw, only admins can answer on matters of site policy.

My name is URL

I don't think it's wise to speculate on what the poster's intentions are at all. For all intents and purposes, and as far as the site should be concerned; all the poster has done is closed their account here.

If any policy needs to be introduced in light of Kasabian's thread then it should be one which disallows farewell threads when a poster is closing their account.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't think it's wise to speculate on what the poster's intentions are at all. For all intents and purposes, and as far as the site should be concerned; all the poster has done is closed their account here.

If any policy needs to be introduced in light of Kasabian's thread then it should be one which disallows farewell threads when a poster is closing their account.

Oh no, I totally understand that and is why I stated that the OP was probably just taking a break, but it seems like these threads could start happening more and more, as people see that there are active discussions on depression, which I believe is a wonderful thing.

@Steve - sometimes I've noticed this not happening, with threads being locked right away without any additional advice/pointing to where professionals can help.

Steve

Deleted User wrote: »

@Steve - sometimes I've noticed this not happening, with threads being locked right away without any additional advice/pointing to where professionals can help.

I'd hope in that case that they're sent a pm. I don't really know, only mods of the relevant forums (PI etc..) can answer. It's what I'd do however.

hondasam

Deleted User wrote: »

Following on from Kasabian's seemingly farewell thread here, I just thought it would be a good idea to ask about whether boards.ie has a policy on depression/suicide related threads? I know Personal Issues has a policy of locking any threads which allude to a poster committing suicide.

While Kasabian's thread doesn't fully allude to suicide and could be just about this specific user leaving to improve their life, it is likely to happen again, especially more now that people are more willing to discuss this issue.

I think you are over reacting here, a poster closed their account it's their own business.

Steve

Steve wrote: »

I'd hope in that case that they're sent a pm. I don't really know, only mods of the relevant forums (PI etc..) can answer. It's what I'd do however.

I guess the problem lies with when a user posts anonymously, which is likely to be the case somewhere like in PI, so it might be impossible to send them a PM.

Is there any way to verify someone's identity even if they do post anonymously, say through their IP#?

hondasam wrote: »

I think you are over reacting here, a poster closed their account it's their own business.

I don't think I'm over reacting at all. If you have read through my posts, you can see that I understand they probably just closed their account, but this thread was only inspired by that. It's evident that more and more people are discussing depression and suicidal tendencies and there have been many cases on PI where people have posted threads relating to suicide. It could happen where people start posting those type of threads more and more, when they feel there is nowhere else to go.

hondasam

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess the problem lies with when a user posts anonymously, which is likely to be the case somewhere like in PI, so it might be impossible to send them a PM.

Is there any way to verify someone's identity even if they do post anonymously, say through their IP#?

You cannot invade posters privacy, if someone wanted to be traced they would not post anony.

I don't think I'm over reacting at all. If you have read through my posts, you can see that I understand they probably just closed their account, but this thread was only inspired by that. It's evident that more and more people are discussing depression and suicidal tendencies and there have been many cases on PI where people have posted threads relating to suicide. It could happen where people start posting those type of threads more and more, when they feel there is nowhere else to go.

Boards is not the place to go to talk about suicide, how do you know who is genuine or who is trolling, it's unfair to put a guilt trip on other posters. Sorry if this sounds nasty but it's how I see it.

Steve

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess the problem lies with when a user posts anonymously, which is likely to be the case somewhere like in PI, so it might be impossible to send them a PM.

Is there any way to verify someone's identity even if they do post anonymously, say through their IP#?

Yeah, posting anon is akin to grafitti in a train station. We can feel compassion for the author and discuss the issue but that's it. In some cases, best case, the admins could possibly link the post to a known user - apart from that all they have is an IP address and the same tools you or I have to track down the owner (e.g, I could give you my IP for this post and all it would tell you was I am a UPC customer - more than that would probably require a court order..).

D

The current stance on feeling suicidal threads, and locking them straight away, comes from one instance where a mod had to stay up all night trying to console a suicidal poster. It was very stressful for the mod, no idea who it was, and most counsellors will agree that to deal with someone in that state of mind you need training.

Personal issue mods, let alone other mods do not receive any counselling training and as such it is considered more beneficial to the poster to lock the thread and recommend that they seek professional or skilled help.

This is the standard procedure for physical health (go see a GP) so I do not see why it should be any different for mental health.

foxinsox

Well said D ^

I agree with the policy in place at the moment..

The person is advised to call Samaritans or go to Doctor..

If other posters try to help by posting or PMing who knows what might happen. None of us are qualified to offer advice in a situation like that.

And even with the best will in the world or even a counsellor replying to a poster in such a situation, there is no background information (on the poster saying they are feeling suicidal) so it could all go horribly wrong.

Just to say I think boards.ie and the mods involved have done a great job recently on the subject of depression.

Overheal

Whats more we don't need a written record, publicly available, of someone offing themselves on the internet.

There is no substitute for professionals on this subject. Thread responses that try to offer counseling, or PMs, are pretty severely frowned upon.

HQ With January and February coming up it might be advisable to have a sitewide announcement about suicide issues soon.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Whats more we don't need a written record, publicly available, of someone offing themselves on the internet.

There is no substitute for professionals on this subject. Thread responses that try to offer counseling, or PMs, are pretty severely frowned upon.

HQ With January and February coming up it might be advisable to have a sitewide announcement about suicide issues soon.

I agree completely with that. There should be an announcement linking to Micky Dolenz's awesome thread here, which lists out the services out there for people suffering with suicidal tendencies.

RoundyMooney

In my own experiences, there are often no red flags, or other warning signs heralding such an eventuality as is being reluctantly put forward here.

I remember hearing a harrowing account of PI mods and posters, and their attempts to talk someone down, on at least one occasion. Heavy stuff.
What I took from that, and what it impressed on me at least was that none of us here, whatever our background may be, are qualified to undertake such a role. Nothing is a substitute for real time interaction, even if it is over a phone line or whatever.

While I wouldn't callously dismiss what seems like a dramatic departure, as some did (in the case that engendered this thread), neither could I see what the next step would be. If the green light goes out, what then? Is someone making space in their life for other things? Are they fed up of a corner they have painted themselves into, with resultant repercussions wherever they go on the site? Are they simply saying to themselves, "Right, I'm spunking too much time on this fecking site, so I'm going to log off and hug the kids/paint the shed/give the mates a shout for a pint"?

In short, we simply don't know-nor, despite the worst case scenario that some here have envisaged can we act. When they close the laptop, or feck the phone up on the table, they're "back in the room", and none of us can do any more.

That's not me being defeatist, or fearful of making a mountain out of a molehill, it's simply reality.

All people can do, as the likes of MickyDolenz and boneyarsebogman (sorry for naming you guys, but you're perfect examples of what I'm about to say) have done, is raise awareness and keep an eye out wherever they can.

DeV and Dav, with their heartful admittance of their own experiences, have perfectly encapsulated the powerful role that boards.ie can play, and have eloquently expressed both the power that an online discussion can have, and the limitations of it, all at once.

I have PM'ed Ickle Magoo, a mod of the Personal Issues forum, just because I felt they should be included in any discussion as the likelihood of any of these threads occurring there is higher than anywhere else.

I also made a suggestion to them about whether or not a sticky should be created, along the lines of "Feeling Suicidal? Read this" and contains a list of the professional services in Micky Dolenz's post that I mentioned above.

Thank you for the reference, RoundyMooney - I just hope mine and TheZohan's actions have helped someone out.

RoundyMooney

I made a booboo, actually, referenced the wrong user, I've amended my post to reflect that-and this is the thread, as linked by Overheal, I meant.

Linkeh.

And Boney, I'm sure they have. The thread views and thanks on any thread referencing this topic are ample evidence of that.

/tips hat

Ickle Magoo

Obviously I'm just giving my own personal views here - I've posted a link re this thread on the PI mod board for any of the other PI mods who might want to give theirs...

Firstly, even with the best will in the world a discussion forum filled with un-trained, sometimes deliberately caustic and unhelpful posters is completely the wrong environment to encourage posters who really require professional help, to spill their guts about and encourage strangers to comment on issues when such posters may be easily swayed on whether life is worth living.

Stickied in the PI/RI charter are a list of contacts by issues that could be affecting people and I'm fairly sure it's general PI protocol to close any thread alluding to suicide with a note to contact professional help ASAP and linking to those contacts...and I'm not sure a wall of possible contacts is any more helpful than the specified and arranged by issue contacts that the charter thread already contains...but I'm perfectly happy to go with the general consensus on that one.

Secondly, I profoundly disagree that any poster (mod or no) should be getting into private communication, or worse, consul with someone who is making threats against their own life. We have no way of knowing who is genuine, who can be talked down or who requires immediate medical attention - we are not qualified to make the distinction nor to step in and fulfil a counsellors role even if we could. It is both in vulnerable and desperate posters best interests and in the best interests of any would-be good samaritan that Boards does not endorse getting personally involved with and either being unable to extract themselves from or feel they had any bearing on any possible outcome.

Lastly, while I appreciate closing the door of discussion in the face of someone who is making threats against their own life may seem cruel and self-defeating for a personal issues advice forum I think it is very, very important that posters are not allowed to use the forum as a crutch, captive audience or in lieu of professional help that they may need as a matter of urgency. I think it needs to be remembered that PI is more of a "ask your best mate, get an honest opinion" level of advice forum - people with serious issues require professional help and anything that deviates from insisting they get it is not in their own best interests - however well meaning.

Ken.

After dev's excellent thread in after hours recently maybe a "talk to" forum could be set up for the Samaritans where anon posting is allowed. Of course the Samaritan's would have to agree and i would hope that seeing as they are volunteer's that the "talk to" for them would be comped.

^^^I don't know if the above would work or not and might be open to abuse.

Maple

boneyarsebogman wrote: »

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't think it's wise to speculate on what the poster's intentions are at all. For all intents and purposes, and as far as the site should be concerned; all the poster has done is closed their account here.

If any policy needs to be introduced in light of Kasabian's thread then it should be one which disallows farewell threads when a poster is closing their account.

Oh no, I totally understand that and is why I stated that the OP was probably just taking a break, but it seems like these threads could start happening more and more, as people see that there are active discussions on depression, which I believe is a wonderful thing.

@Steve - sometimes I've noticed this not happening, with threads being locked right away without any additional advice/pointing to where professionals can help.

I find that very hard to believe to be honest. In my experience these threads are locked almost immediately with a reference to our charter and list of useful links.

Threads that contain merely the slightest whiff of suicidal tendencies are monitored very closely by us, often with discussions amongst us taking place by PM and in our PI forum.

If you do ever see a thread whereby the nod towards the charter has been omitted, report the post so that it can be added.

MugMugs

lucyfur09 wrote: »

After dev's excellent thread in after hours recently maybe a "talk to" forum could be set up for the Samaritans where anon posting is allowed. Of course the Samaritan's would have to agree and i would hope that seeing as they are volunteer's that the "talk to" for them would be comped.

^^^I don't know if the above would work or not and might be open to abuse.

Sounds like heaven to a troll imo

Ken.

MugMugs wrote: »

Sounds like heaven to a troll imo

So true but maybe having it premoderated might help. It's probably a stupid idea. It was a pre coffee idea that i thought might get the ball rolling and people would improve upon my idea.

K-9

It's a huge damn ****ing shame that a thread that looked for help ended up like that, thank God for Dev's thread.

The contrarian comments are far more attention seeking. Trolling a depression thread is about as low as you can go on the internet!

lucyfur09

lucyfur09 wrote: »

So true but maybe having it premoderated might help. It's probably a stupid idea. It was a pre coffee idea that i thought might get the ball rolling and people would improve upon my idea.

Unfortunately it would be way too hard to moderate, I would imagine. Unless you have someone full time, who is specialized in that area, but then there could be some legal issues surrounding it? I'm presuming it would be opening up some troubles if they weren't successful in stopping someone from taking their lives.

I'm unsure as to what thread you are all referring to, the one that ended badly.

Dudess

Once the tone isn't too matter-of-fact, closing the thread with links is best practice IMO.

nesf

Having been suicidal, honestly this is the last place I'd come for advice and help in such a state. It wouldn't be fair on other posters and I wouldn't be doing the best for myself either.

There are a plethora of free services available for people in crisis. We should encourage people to use them, maybe even have a sticky in PI where people can post about their positive experiences when using them but we should go no further than that.

Annasopra

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Secondly, I profoundly disagree that any poster (mod or no) should be getting into private communication, or worse, consul with someone who is making threats against their own life. We have no way of knowing who is genuine, who can be talked down or who requires immediate medical attention - we are not qualified to make the distinction nor to step in and fulfil a counsellors role even if we could. It is both in vulnerable and desperate posters best interests and in the best interests of any would-be good samaritan that Boards does not endorse getting personally involved with and either being unable to extract themselves from or feel they had any bearing on any possible outcome.

I think this should be a general rule for distressed posters

I've said this on a recent thread in the LGBT forum here - just wondering would people agree with me on that?

nesf

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this should be a general rule for distressed posters

I've said this on a recent thread in the LGBT forum here - just wondering would people agree with me on that?

You were dead right, if someone complains send them to me.

Maple

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this should be a general rule for distressed posters

I've said this on a recent thread in the LGBT forum here - just wondering would people agree with me on that?

100% agree

hondasam

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this should be a general rule for distressed posters

I've said this on a recent thread in the LGBT forum here - just wondering would people agree with me on that?

Yes I would agree with this, getting into a private conversation with a distressed/suicidal poster could be dangerous and distressing.
If the poster did not return to boards The other person is left not knowing what happened.
It could be the person decided to move on and get professional help and not post again but it would always be on your mind.
It's a job for professional counsellors not lay people.

Completely agree with what you did there, mango salsa.

dudara

I'll put my hands up here and say honestly that suicide threads scare the living bejaysus out of me.

Reason 1

At times, Personal Issues can be horribly intense on moderators. When you're a new moderator (or at least, not a cynic), you can get sucked into supporting "needy" posters. They contact you via PM, and pull you into their world. It's quite a traumatic experience.

I am not qualified to support anyone who is in need of help. More importantly, I do not want to provide direct support anyone in need of help. I want to direct them to an organisation or individual who can listen to them and diagnose and/or assist.

Reason 2

There is a horribly sick underclass of people who get their jollies from pretending to be suicidal or else posting in such as a manner as to further disturb already disturbed people. Threads cannot therefore be continued to stay open for posting.