Drugs

mikom

Originally Posted by Prop Joe My big gripe is that every person who buys drugs funds guys like "Fat Freddie" & John Gilligan,Keanes etc..

Prop Joe wrote: »

So Who do you think imports the majority of Cannabis into this country ????

Ah, so it's "majority" now.
The goalposts are moving more like a drunken sailor trying to regain his sea legs.

Also "importing" is not as "important" anymore.
Ever hear of operation nitrogen?

frag420 wrote: »

If the like of sweden, portugal, switzerland can legalize a plant then I dont see why we cant.

Its time this country grew up and got with the program!!

Don't forget the Basques
Spanish Basque Country Legalizing Marijuana In 2012

Prop Joe

frag420 wrote: »

OP can you tell me what drugs you have tried? Hash/Weed few times in my late teens never really appealed to me [/I]Everytime someone comes on here giving out about drug use they always refer to someone they know who has been effected yet they seem not to know anyone who has been effected or died from alcohol/tobacco.

Have you tried heroin which in its natural form is non addictive? No
HAve you ever smoked a joint? Yes Sir,Obviously a badge of honor for you

I have tried plenty of different things both legal and illegal and not once did I mug anyone, beat anyone up, rob cash or get an addiction. Gong by your way of looking at things then I say that alcohol be banned because every week I see people falling into the middle of the rd, getting into fights etc etc etc.
Lots of people die in RTA's,so lets ban all cars

If your problem is the fact that drug use props up the gangs then there is a simple solution, legalize it and take the money out of the hands of the gangs because believe it or not OP people are always going to take various drugs regardless of their legality so would you not think it better the government got this money??
Criminal Gangs make money from lots of other things such as Human Trafficking,Kidnapping,Child Pornography should we legalise this too
The effects of prohibition in the States is still being felt almost 100yrs later!! The war on drugs does not work.........Simples

If the like of sweden,(Where it is illegal to repaint a house without a painting license and the government’s permission.) portugal, switzerland (Where the law states a man may not relieve himself while standing up after 10pm.) can legalize a plant then I dont see why we cant.
Lets copy everyone else !!

Its time this country grew up and got with the program!!


frAg

To be honest,smoking weed is as much as a lifestyle choice more than anything

mikom

Prop Joe wrote: »

Criminal Gangs make money from lots of other things such as Human Trafficking,Kidnapping,Child Pornography should we legalise this too

Legalise strawmanning while you are at it.

Prop Joe

mikom wrote: »

Originally Posted by Prop Joe My big gripe is that every person who buys drugs funds guys like "Fat Freddie" & John Gilligan,Keanes etc..





Ah, so it's "majority" now.
The goalposts are moving more like a drunken sailor trying to regain his sea legs.

Also "importing" is not as "important" anymore.
Ever hear of operation nitrogen?



Don't forget the Basques
Spanish Basque Country Legalizing Marijuana In 2012

Without checking the facts i would be fairly certain that the majority of cannabis is imported by so called "Drug Lords" & Probably I'd say a large percentage of it being grown here would be too

mikom

Prop Joe wrote: »

Without checking the facts i

Why change the habit of a lifetime.....

Prop Joe

In all seriousness,You don't class weed in the same bracket of Coke/Pills/Speed etc.

mikom

Prop Joe wrote: »

In all seriousness,You don't class weed in the same bracket of Coke/Pills/Speed etc.

You might like to edit your original thread-starting post so.....

Prop Joe wrote: »

Is anyone else so sick and tired of the acceptance of drugs in society?
Pills,Weed and Coke just seem so acceptable these days for ingredients for a night out.There needs to be bigger penalties for Drug possession?
I travel alot with work and hard drugs are spreading like wildfire throughout small towns and villages,When ten or so years ago ya wouldnt see a guy smoking a J.
Your Thoughts?

Prop Joe

Prop Joe wrote: »

In all seriousness,You don't class weed in the same bracket of Coke/Pills/Speed etc.

Sarcastic tone

You as in YOU Mikom ???

mikom

Prop Joe wrote: »

Sarcastic tone

You as in YOU Mikom ???

Stick a question mark on the end next time so.

For the record I don't class weed in the same harm bracket as Coke/Pills/Speed
And neither does the British Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs.

Chuck Stone

Prop Joe wrote: »

The difference between Hard drugs and Drink & Smoking is the legality..If smoking tobacco was illegal i'd safely say well over 90-odd % of people would stop smoking.

Did you even watch the video posted earlier? Alcohol prohibition in the US did little to reduce demand and consumption. It just made millionaires out of the likes of Al Capone.

Anyone who takes any form of illegal drug in my eyes is as bad as any criminal...Buying drugs is funding scumbags...I have no pity for anyone who dies from using illegal drugs..Harsh but true..

Anyone who supports the prohibition of drugs is as bad as the scumbags who sell illegal drugs. Prohibition drives up the price of drugs and makes millionaires out of violent thugs. See what I did there?

Gonzor wrote: »

So you think drugs bringing out the worst in people is only a fairy story..??

Drug abuse can bring out the worst in people. Nobody is claiming drug abuse is not a problem.

Prop Joe wrote: »

If Weed,Coke or whatever was made legal in the morning it would then be open to the level of abuse that the booze is encountered with..It's pointless comparing the two..

Source?

Decriminalising drug possession and treating addicts with services rather than prison has had some remarkable results.

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

My big gripe is that every person who buys drugs funds guys like "Fat Freddie" & John Gilligan,Keanes etc.. That is the problem,It is the same as aiding a rapist or murderer in his getaway from a crime...Again a bit harsh but true

I confident that drug consumers would much rather get their drugs from a regulated source. They have no choice.

Prop Joe

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I confident that drug consumers would much rather get their drugs from a regulated source. They have no choice.

Much Like Child Pornography or Prostitutes?

mikom

Prop Joe wrote: »

Much Like Child Pornography or Prostitutes?

And straw men....
Add genocide next time alongside child pornography and prostitution for a touch of added spice.

Prop Joe

Anyone who buys Illegal drugs in this country is directly funding the business of the Likes of Gilligan,Ryans,Dundons etc.. the scum who Murder,Rape and bully there way around Ireland.You all have blood on your hands.

mikom

Prop Joe wrote: »

Anyone who buys Illegal drugs in this country is directly funding the business of the Likes of Gilligan,Ryans,Dundons etc.. the scum who Murder,Rape and bully there way around Ireland.You all have blood on your hands.

Repeating it does not make it true Joe.

Chuck Stone

Prop Joe wrote: »

Anyone who buys Illegal drugs in this country is directly funding the business of the Likes of Gilligan,Ryans,Dundons etc.. the scum who Murder,Rape and bully there way around Ireland.You all have blood on your hands.

It's prohibition that allows these scum to gain power and wealth.

Is it really so hard for people to see this?

Prop Joe

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It's prohibition that allows these scum to gain power.

Is it really so hard for people to see this?

That don't make it OK to fund them though??
If Drugs were legalised they would find another industry which in turn would lead to what? Legalising everything?

amacachi

Prop Joe wrote: »

Anyone who buys Illegal drugs in this country is directly funding the business of the Likes of Gilligan,Ryans,Dundons etc.. the scum who Murder,Rape and bully there way around Ireland.You all have blood on your hands.

Again, what about people who grow their own or buy it from a friend who does so?

I hope you don't buy Nestle products, you're destroying the rainforest.

amacachi

Prop Joe wrote: »

Legalising everything?

Other than something that by definition harms someone else what should be illegal? Anything that you don't like I assume?

Chuck Stone

Prop Joe wrote: »

If Drugs were legalised they would find another industry which in turn would lead to what?

There'd be a lot less pie to go around so they'd probably end up wiping each other out.

Legalising everything?

No.

Prop Joe

Chuck Stone wrote: »

There'd be a lot less pie to go around so they'd probably end up wiping each other out.

I Guess it would be much easier taking out the top dogs in the industry in Ireland,I mean we are still a small country,It will never be completely gone but the rise in use of Heroin around the country is appalling which i assume is because of it's easy access..The Goverment need to seriously put a plan together to take out the top dogs and there support networks..Look how the Columbian's took care of Escobar.

Chuck Stone

Prop Joe wrote: »

Ihe Goverment need to seriously put a plan together to take out the top dogs and there support networks..Look how the Columbian's took care of Escobar.

As bad as things are here they're nothing compared to the violence in South and Central American countries.

Tens of thousands of violent deaths and displaced people. Not a model any sane person would want to follow.

Det. Lester Freamon: You follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. But you start to follow the money... and you don't know where the fu*k is going to take you.

The Wire.

Del2005

Gonzor wrote: »

Im probably reading that wrong or something but to me that sounds like you are saying the US government used marijuana users to kill off people who were in the cotton industry..

Either way it doesnt really matter, I dont see what corrupt american politics has to with legalising drugs in Ireland in 2011/2012...??? Or have I missed that point too..??

Marijuana was criminalized to protect the US cotton industry, racism against Mexican migrant workers with BS stories about what they got up was used as proof the "Marijuana Kills"

Prop Joe wrote: »

I Guess it would be much easier taking out the top dogs in the industry in Ireland,I mean we are still a small country,It will never be completely gone but the rise in use of Heroin around the country is appalling which i assume is because of it's easy access..The Goverment need to seriously put a plan together to take out the top dogs and there support networks..Look how the Columbian's took care of Escobar.

You've no idea.

As bad as Escobar was once they killed him it left a power vacuum which has left Mexico in a civil war, which is killing thousands a year, which can't be won by the Government. Much like the US sorted out the Opium production in Afghanistan after their invasion.

As has been pointed out numerous times, banning drugs doesn't decrease the consumption, it just leads to the death of innocents by creating violent criminal gangs.

Gonzor

FOr attention of mikom

Would ya ever stop trying to fool people by comparing my posts side by side with prop joes posts and then pointing out so called 'inconsistencies' and trying to pass it off like the people debating against drugs cant get their stories straight...

Thats a really low blow in a debate to be honest with you. And Im suprised the mods are letting that go aswel, it is a such a dirty trick your pulling :mad:

Needless to say this now leaves me questioning all the rest of the "facts" that you spouse out of you in your little pro-drug campaign.

Gonzor

Marijuana was criminalized to protect the US cotton industry, racism against Mexican migrant workers with BS stories about what they got up was used as proof the "Marijuana Kills"

--Ok thanks. That makes a bit more sense now. But honestly, Im still failing to see the point your trying to make with this? What does corrupt american politics have to do with legalising drugs in Ireland in 2011/2012..?


The logic of legalising drugs to prevent John Gilligan type drug figures (and drug crime) is flawed on so many levels. Seriously, does anybody here actually believe that if drugs were legalised when John Gilligan was at his height of power do you think he would have said, "right lads it was good while it lasted, but its over now, I may get the CV out and go down to FAS and see whats on offer".

No. Id be willing to bet that he'd find a new product to pass out to the masses.

So shall we legalise everything under the sun just to prevent crime bosses?

(and lets not be fooled, even if we did legalise *everything* it still wouldnt work as they'll fall back to the old reliable robbing/blackmailing/kidnaps/protection money/counterfeiting etc).


ANd to top all that, whats the bets that if the Irish government did legalise marijuana and did setup a factory somewhere Id be willing to bet you anything that the cost of production (plus the high tax that stoners keep gloating about) would mean that the price would be no where similar to what John Gilligan can sell it for. And as a matter of fact, he may even get some new customers soley because of the legalisation. We only need to look to the booming cigarette smuggling industry for an example of this.

147 million smuggled cigarettes were found in Ireland in 2010... and thats just the ones they know about.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0623/1224299456728.html






For the people comparing alcohol and tobacco to drugs. Please stop it. We all know that alcohol and tobacco cause a ton of problems. So the argument of "well drugs arent as bad as alcohol" is a terrible point to make.

Do you really want me start digging out statistics on why child porn is OK in comparison to heroin because nobody has ever died from ****. Or how about the statistics on the amount of people who got killed/mugged/robbed/stabbed to feed a child porn addiction? I bet if I start putting numbers into charts I can make child porn look like a great thing that expands your horizons, relieves stress, gives you 20 minutes exercise every day.... and if we legalise it and tax it we can make a ton of money. Please just stop with the unrelevant and downright stupid comparisons.

frag420

Gonzor wrote: »

Do you really want me start digging out statistics on why child porn is OK in comparison to heroin because nobody has ever died from ****.

Yeah go for it. This I just gotta see!!

And while your at it have a look at this link........http://m24digital.com/en/2011/08/26/unusual-boy-dies-after-masturbating-42-times/


Even if I smoked 42 spliffs I couldn't die!!

Gonzor

frag420 wrote: »

Yeah go for it. This I just gotta see!!

I take it you didnt realise that was a rhetorical question... or are you intentionally just trying to sidetrack the debate?

AhSureTisGrand

The argument for illegal drugs is the same as the argument for illegal tobacco and alcohol. People who argue fervently in favour of criminalizing drugs usually know this, and either ignore it or concede that they would like to see these things banned also in an "ideal world". However, that is still not a consistent position. The argument is just as applicable to a multitude of other things.

Take over-eating: this is one of the biggest causes of illness and death in the western world. It destroys lives and tears families apart. A parent who eats too much will most likely raise a child who eats too much. It costs the state millions in medical bills. It can affect everybody and anybody (try sitting next to an obese person on a Ryanair flight).

Waging a war on over-eating or obesity would be fairly straightforward. Ban all the crap they serve in fast food restaurants. Crack down on newsagents that sell sweets. Raid people's houses for butter. That sort of thing. It would probably be more successful too than banning drugs - I find it hard to imagine people risking a jail sentence just to buy some chocolate.

The main reason this seems absurd is that somewhere deep in the recesses of the nanny statist's mind lies a revolutionary idea: maybe it's not my job or the government's job to make decisions for other people.

frag420

Gonzor wrote: »

frag420 wrote: »

Yeah go for it. This I just gotta see!!

I take it you didnt realise that was a rhetorical question... or are you intentionally just trying to sidetrack the debate?

I take the issue of drug decriminalisation very seriously. The fact you compare it to child sex abuse is absurd. Was that intentional??

mikom

Gonzor wrote: »

FOr attention of mikom

Would ya ever stop trying to fool people by comparing my posts side by side with prop joes posts and then pointing out so called 'inconsistencies' and trying to pass it off like the people debating against drugs cant get their stories straight...

Thats a really low blow in a debate to be honest with you. And Im suprised the mods are letting that go aswel, it is a such a dirty trick your pulling :mad:

Needless to say this now leaves me questioning all the rest of the "facts" that you spouse out of you in your little pro-drug campaign.

What are you on about?
The multiquote system is there to prevent individual posters posting individual posts one after another in reply to more than one poster.
It prevents thread clutter.


So, clearly point out what I have done wrong...... then use the report button below the post to alert the mods to it if you think it will calm your strop.
I think you will find you will get short shrift.
There is no need to discuss modding or mod decisions on thread.

Gonzor wrote: »

Thats a really low blow

No a really low blow would be feeding someone a birthday cake laced with cannabis, which is comparable to spiking a drink.

Gonzor wrote: »

For my 16th birthday a few of the lads baked me a mini cannabis cake. They didnt bother to mention the ingrediants until *after* I had it all ate

ALthough I should have known there was something weird about it when half the building was standing there grinning and pissing themselves laughing and taking pics while I ate it...

It was very very very bad buzz to say the least, I would not wish it on anybody. I never took drugs before that, and I dont think I'll ever try them again either....

I can see how it would give someone a chip on their shoulder.

A case of toys out of the pram I think.
I do not espouse drugs, but a bit of common sense looking at history and the current systems failure rather than raging and roaring.

Gonzor wrote: »

Do you really want me start digging out statistics on why child porn is OK in comparison to heroin because nobody has ever died from ****. Or how about the statistics on the amount of people who got killed/mugged/robbed/stabbed to feed a child porn addiction? I bet if I start putting numbers into charts I can make child porn look like a great thing that expands your horizons, relieves stress, gives you 20 minutes exercise every day.... and if we legalise it and tax it we can make a ton of money. Please just stop with the unrelevant and downright stupid comparisons.

More child porn strawmanning.

"Hey kids, have you ran down a dead end in your arguement?
Why not try linking drugs to child porn.........."

Chuck Stone

Gonzor wrote: »

Do you really want me start digging out statistics on why child porn is OK in comparison to heroin because nobody has ever died from ****. Or how about the statistics on the amount of people who got killed/mugged/robbed/stabbed to feed a child porn addiction? I bet if I start putting numbers into charts I can make child porn look like a great thing that expands your horizons, relieves stress, gives you 20 minutes exercise every day.... and if we legalise it and tax it we can make a ton of money. Please just stop with the unrelevant and downright stupid comparisons.

I bet you can't.

I'll save you the trouble a set fire to that big fat strawman with bells hanging off it.

Child porn involves the victimisation of an innocent child. Drug use is a lifestyle choice made by an individual - the consequences of which he bears responsibility for.

See the difference?

Prop Joe

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I bet you can't.

I'll save you the trouble a set fire to that big fat strawman with bells hanging off it.

Child porn involves the victimisation of an innocent child. Drug use is a lifestyle choice made by an individual - the consequences of which he bears responsibility for.

See the difference?

Explain that to the family of Shane Geoghegan & Veronica Guerin

Gonzor

Ok... Im just going to assume that everybody here completely missed the point I was making.

YES comparing drugs to child porn is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. THats why Im not comparing them. And I dont know why anybody would. So stop attacking me on an issue that we all actually agree on.




And you know what Mikom Im really starting to dislike you. What is that term they use when you're no longer able to attack someones argument, so you attack them personally instead? Ad hominem...... hmmmmmm

I bet your gonna start pulling me up on my grammar and spelling next :rolleyes:




I didnt want to get into this. I really didnt. But since Mikom has taken it upon himself to plaster my life story all over the thread then I might aswell at least set the record straight.

My views on drugs dont come from being spiked. I brushed that off a long time ago. The only relevance that has on me is that I can actually say "yep Ive tried cannabis".

My gripe with drugs comes from 2 of my brothers dying from drug overdoses and all the years of heartache they brought to the family. And now Im watching my 14 year old cousin experimenting with ketamine because "all the lads in school do it"... and when I tell him thats *exactly* how my brothers started he tells me to go way and cop on.

Now. Id very much appreciate if we could leave my life story at that... I only reply to peoples arguments and dont go trawling through anybodies past posts to see is there any dirt that I can dig up. If yous want to turn this into a slagging match well then work away... but count me out.

My last post (posted below again) still stands. Feel free to pick away at any flaws in my argument/beliefs....

Oh and just let me say this one more time incase anyone missed the first half of this post

I dont believe in comparing child porn to drugs.....

Gonzor wrote: »

--Ok thanks. That makes a bit more sense now. But honestly, Im still failing to see the point your trying to make with this? What does corrupt american politics have to do with legalising drugs in Ireland in 2011/2012..?


The logic of legalising drugs to prevent John Gilligan type drug figures (and drug crime) is flawed on so many levels. Seriously, does anybody here actually believe that if drugs were legalised when John Gilligan was at his height of power do you think he would have said, "right lads it was good while it lasted, but its over now, I may get the CV out and go down to FAS and see whats on offer".

No. Id be willing to bet that he'd find a new product to pass out to the masses.

So shall we legalise everything under the sun just to prevent crime bosses?

(and lets not be fooled, even if we did legalise *everything* it still wouldnt work as they'll fall back to the old reliable robbing/blackmailing/kidnaps/protection money/counterfeiting etc).


ANd to top all that, whats the bets that if the Irish government did legalise marijuana and did setup a factory somewhere Id be willing to bet you anything that the cost of production (plus the high tax that stoners keep gloating about) would mean that the price would be no where similar to what John Gilligan can sell it for. And as a matter of fact, he may even get some new customers soley because of the legalisation. We only need to look to the booming cigarette smuggling industry for an example of this.

147 million smuggled cigarettes were found in Ireland in 2010... and thats just the ones they know about.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0623/1224299456728.html






For the people comparing alcohol and tobacco to drugs. Please stop it. We all know that alcohol and tobacco cause a ton of problems. So the argument of "well drugs arent as bad as alcohol" is a terrible point to make.

Do you really want me start digging out statistics on why child porn is OK in comparison to heroin because nobody has ever died from ****. Or how about the statistics on the amount of people who got killed/mugged/robbed/stabbed to feed a child porn addiction? I bet if I start putting numbers into charts I can make child porn look like a great thing that expands your horizons, relieves stress, gives you 20 minutes exercise every day.... and if we legalise it and tax it we can make a ton of money. Please just stop with the unrelevant and downright stupid comparisons.

yawha

Prop Joe wrote: »

If Weed,Coke or whatever was made legal in the morning it would then be open to the level of abuse that the booze is encountered with..It's pointless comparing the two..My big gripe is that every person who buys drugs funds guys like "Fat Freddie" & John Gilligan,Keanes etc.. That is the problem,It is the same as aiding a rapist or murderer in his getaway from a crime...Again a bit harsh but true

Yup.

The same with anyone who buys coffee or chocolate or clothes made in the developing world.

charlemont

frag420 wrote: »

I take the issue of drug decriminalisation very seriously. The fact you compare it to child sex abuse is absurd. Was that intentional??

Its just ignorance, We turn them out like no other country!!! Strangely enough when the sex abuse was happening these people kept their mouths shut but see now how vocal they are against drug use, Pathetic really.

yawha

Prop Joe wrote: »

Explain that to the family of Shane Geoghegan & Veronica Guerin

If drugs were legal, they wouldn't be dead. Simple as.

mikom

Gonzor wrote: »

And you know what Mikom Im really starting to dislike you.

I don't dislike you Gonzor.
I haven't even met you.

Gonzor wrote: »

My gripe with drugs comes from 2 of my brothers dying from drug overdoses and all the years of heartache they brought to the family. And now Im watching my 14 year old cousin experimenting with ketamine because "all the lads in school do it"... and when I tell him thats *exactly* how my brothers started he tells me to go way and cop on.

Sorry for your troubles Gonzor.
Your time would be better spent advising your cousin not to abuse drugs like your brothers did.
Similar to the way in which I do not abuse drink like my cousin who lost his wife and kids and now has liver disease through it.
I use alcohol to enhance my social life....... but that's it.

If you use the "stick" on your cousin and go down the route of scare stories he may reject you completely.
Did you advise your cousin on alcohol?

You seem to be arguing your side from an emotional angle, so this explains how you appear to have little time for logical arguments

As an aside....
If the cannabis cakes incident happened after your brothers died from an overdose then your friends are not really friends.

frag420

To the anti drug brigade let me ask you one thing.

Up until a few yes ago magic mushrooms were not illegal as they are now in Ireland. Plenty of people enjoyed them every weekend across Ireland. They grew naturally in fields all across the country. Nobody was mugged or robbed to obtain cash to but them. Then all of a sudden one guy dies as he had a bad trip, thought he was a bird and could fly and jumped from a roof to his death. Aside from the fact that birds generally take of from the ground do you think it was right to ban magic mushrooms because of one death??

Do you think we should ban alcohol and tobacco for the thousands of deaths they cause yearly aswell as the violence and disease attributed to both? What about prescription drugs that are abused?? How about nutmeg?

Just something to mull over while not high on your high horses!!

frAg

Del2005

Gonzor wrote: »

--Ok thanks. That makes a bit more sense now. But honestly, Im still failing to see the point your trying to make with this? What does corrupt american politics have to do with legalising drugs in Ireland in 2011/2012..?


The logic of legalising drugs to prevent John Gilligan type drug figures (and drug crime) is flawed on so many levels. Seriously, does anybody here actually believe that if drugs were legalised when John Gilligan was at his height of power do you think he would have said, "right lads it was good while it lasted, but its over now, I may get the CV out and go down to FAS and see whats on offer".

No. Id be willing to bet that he'd find a new product to pass out to the masses.

So shall we legalise everything under the sun just to prevent crime bosses?

(and lets not be fooled, even if we did legalise *everything* it still wouldnt work as they'll fall back to the old reliable robbing/blackmailing/kidnaps/protection money/counterfeiting etc).


ANd to top all that, whats the bets that if the Irish government did legalise marijuana and did setup a factory somewhere Id be willing to bet you anything that the cost of production (plus the high tax that stoners keep gloating about) would mean that the price would be no where similar to what John Gilligan can sell it for. And as a matter of fact, he may even get some new customers soley because of the legalisation. We only need to look to the booming cigarette smuggling industry for an example of this.

147 million smuggled cigarettes were found in Ireland in 2010... and thats just the ones they know about.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0623/1224299456728.html






For the people comparing alcohol and tobacco to drugs. Please stop it. We all know that alcohol and tobacco cause a ton of problems. So the argument of "well drugs arent as bad as alcohol" is a terrible point to make.

Do you really want me start digging out statistics on why child porn is OK in comparison to heroin because nobody has ever died from ****. Or how about the statistics on the amount of people who got killed/mugged/robbed/stabbed to feed a child porn addiction? I bet if I start putting numbers into charts I can make child porn look like a great thing that expands your horizons, relieves stress, gives you 20 minutes exercise every day.... and if we legalise it and tax it we can make a ton of money. Please just stop with the unrelevant and downright stupid comparisons.

Firstly I'm sorry for your loss.

But you keep banging on about drugs being bad because they are illegal. I'm trying to point out that marijuana wasn't made illegal for any other reason then to protect US cotton farmers from a better product, and I won't even go into the amount of environmental damage that's done as cotton is a thirsty crop.

The Government has increased the taxes on smokes as they are proven to be deadly and they want people to stop smoking, but again people aren't stopping smoking. Marijuana isn't deadly and the only side affect is schizophrenia in people already susceptible and memory loss, compare that to legal drugs and I'm not just talking about alcohol and tobacco. It's got so bad with people ODing on Paracetamol that I can't buy two 5 packs of Lemsip but I can buy a 10 pack! a Paracetamol OD is not a nice way to go.


Look at it this way, currently the only people benefiting from the illegal status of drugs are criminals. And yes if it is decriminalized they'll move onto something else, but a leopard can't change it's spots and you don't make laws on what the person you are putting out of business will do next.

Would it not be better to have even a small tax, and we all know it won't stay that way, on a product sold from a shop where ID is required to purchase it and actually tell people the truth about what each drug does to you so they can make an informed decision. Then there wouldn't also be the option to purchase the harder drugs, scum will sell anything to anyone shops can't, as eventually a dealer will offer harder stuff.

Also this thing that Marijuana leads to harder drugs is BS. The 1st drug the vast majority of people consume is Caffeine, using your logic we should ban Caffeine as it leads to Alcohol, which leads to... Some people will abuse things, it's a sad fact. But the vast majority of people are perfectly capable of using mind altering substances with no affect on their life.

I seriously hope you aren't using the same tone to get your nephew off katamine, as it won't work.

Finally I can almost guarantee your brothers didn't die from the drug they where taking, it was the sh!te that's mixed into that kills, or if it was the drug it was due to an overdose as there is ZERO quality control so every shot is Russian roulette. Would you not prefer to have your brothers and legal drugs then putting your family through such grieve?

Del2005

frag420 wrote: »

To the anti drug brigade let me ask you one thing.

Up until a few yes ago magic mushrooms were not illegal as they are now in Ireland. Plenty of people enjoyed them every weekend across Ireland. They grew naturally in fields all across the country. Nobody was mugged or robbed to obtain cash to but them. Then all of a sudden one guy dies as he had a bad trip, thought he was a bird and could fly and jumped from a roof to his death. Aside from the fact that birds generally take of from the ground do you think it was right to ban magic mushrooms because of one death??

Do you think we should ban alcohol and tobacco for the thousands of deaths they cause yearly aswell as the violence and disease attributed to both? What about prescription drugs that are abused?? How about nutmeg?

Just something to mull over while not high on your high horses!!

frAg

If I remember that story correctly he took the mushrooms and jumped out the window about 20-30 min later. Acid takes longer then that to take affect and he was also p!ssed. Why was the unTaxable drug banned and not his full cocktail.

I almost forgot. When E 1st came on the scene there where scare stories abounding that everyone would be dead or a mess on it. There's been very few deaths, Leah drowned so should we ban water?, and not that many problems for the millions of E taken so far.

The head shops are also a good point. The only people who lost out when they where doing a roaring trade where dealers. These shops where providing employment, paying taxes and rent etc. They closed the shops and now the dealers are selling the stuff with no benefit to the country.

as125634do

Most reported xtc deaths are in actual fact a different drug, pma
which is made with a cheaper oil than the oil real xtc is made with. The reason the cheaper oil is available ? Prohibition , the prohibirionists have modelled a world where u will die if u take illegal drugs. Ask all the cops in afghaniatan who smoke heroin it grows everywhere there

metaoblivia

Personally, I would like to see most illegal drugs legalized so that they can be better monitored and taxed. I think it's a safer, more responsible, and more profitable approach to drug culture. Just looking at the Mexican drug cartels and how horrifying that situation has become, if the US legalized these drugs, I think it would do a lot to stop the violence and power of those cartels. I don't think it would eradicate them entirely or right away, but there's no doubt in my mind that it would be an improvement over the current situation, where people are making huge amounts of profits on cheap drugs and killing anyone who stands in their way.
And I say that as someone who lives as drug free as possible. I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I obviously don't do any illegal drugs. I only take medicine when its prescribed by a doctor, and I even avoid things like caffeine as much as possible. I view my decision as just that - a personal decision that works for me, and I never talk about it unless someone asks why I'm not drinking, smoking, etc. And I am definitely the odd one out, or as my university friends used to call me, "the unicorn." Lots of people use recreational drugs these days, which is all the more reason, I think, to legalize drugs and make them safer. A family member of someone I know died about a year ago because he got a bad cut of drug that otherwise should never have killed him. Had standards been put in place, perhaps that could have been avoided.

RatsInParadise

Prop Joe wrote: »

Is anyone else so sick and tired of the acceptance of drugs in society?
Pills,Weed and Coke just seem so acceptable these days for ingredients for a night out.There needs to be bigger penalties for Drug possession?
I travel alot with work and hard drugs are spreading like wildfire throughout small towns and villages,When ten or so years ago ya wouldnt see a guy smoking a J.
Your Thoughts?

In my ideal world, people wouldn't use drugs. But in that world, everyone is happy and in a great mood all the time, never suffers stress or mental illness and is living every moment to its fullest potential.

Meanwhile, back on earth, nope, I'm not sick and tired of the acceptance of drugs in society. In fact, I'm quite pleased at the increasing social acceptance of alternatives to alcohol if one feels like consuming a mind-altering substance.

Why should there be bigger penalties for drug possession? What would this achieve? I'd like to see us do what Portugal did and decriminalise possession, while setting up separate courts for drugs and treating addiction for what it is - a health issue. This has enabled them to not only save a whole lot of tax payers money, to help people to get their lives on track, to help the families of users, to half empty out their prisons and, more importantly, to concentrate on catching the druglords making all the money, instead of the replaceable guys at the bottom of the ladder.

Gonzor wrote: »

--Ok thanks. That makes a bit more sense now. But honestly, Im still failing to see the point your trying to make with this? What does corrupt american politics have to do with legalising drugs in Ireland in 2011/2012..?

I think the point being made was that saying marijuana is bad because it's illegal is a bit of a moot point, given the only reason it was made illegal was massive scaremongering in the U.S in, I think the 30s, because hemp was such big competition to the cotton industry, and getting rid of it made certain people with enough strings to pull quite a lot of money.

No. Id be willing to bet that he'd find a new product to pass out to the masses.

So shall we legalise everything under the sun just to prevent crime bosses?

Do we limit the personal freedom of entire nations, just so a few bad eggs won't be able to be the scumbags that they are?

For the people comparing alcohol and tobacco to drugs. Please stop it. We all know that alcohol and tobacco cause a ton of problems. So the argument of "well drugs arent as bad as alcohol" is a terrible point to make.........Please just stop with the unrelevant and downright stupid comparisons.

No. I won't stop it. I'll use caffeine and valium in comparisons too. They're all mind altering substances which the government has made a decision, researched or not, about regarding it's safety and validity in our society. What the hell else are you supposed to compare it to? I won't make the argument that 'drugs aren't as bad as alcohol'. I'd say some are far worse and it's a bloody good thing that they are not widely available. I'd say some are far better and it seems almost criminal to me that they are not more readily available and controlled.


In my opinion, for which I welcome added discussion, cannabis should be legalised. At least decriminalised. If I want to grow some in my garden or shed, and smoke it (better yet, vapourise) with friends or by myself, I don't believe that that is an action that warrants me being fined, given community service (I volunteer in my community anyway) or imprisoned. I suffer from a number of mental health issues - there's about 10 of them beside my psychiatrist report - but what it esesntially comes down to is post traumatic stress, anxiety and depression. I'm not allowed take anti-depressants - they completely unbalance my brain and send me into hypomanic-depressive rapid cycles. Mood stabilisers work to a degree, they take the pain out of the deprssion, but life becomes zombie-like, joyless and they don't stop the unwanted suicidal thoughts that plague me. Cannabis works for me. I don't have to be high/stoned all the time. I don't need to smoke every day, and I often enjoy a few weeks without any. But when I'm depressed, it helps lift me out of my apathetic, miserable state. I cheer up, become more animated, and talkative and with that help up, can stay in an improved mood long after the cannabis wears off. When I'm starting to get manic, it mellows me out, calms me down. Same when I'm anxious and panicky. No it's not for everyone, and I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. But my personal freedoms are severely limited by the illegal status of this drug. I don't think that's fair.

LSD, mushrooms, DMT and other hallucinogens, I would also like to see available for use without persecution. They are a very important part of spirituality for many. For others, they just add a little light to the night. Trips don't appeal to everyone and the notion of flashbacks may terrify people into not trying it. Fair enough. I find them vaguely amusing and no more unsettling than a headrush from standing up too quickly. The most important thing about these, is education and preparation. Sensible use, sensible setting, with something resembling a sensible person to keep an eye on things. Like alcohol, really - please use responsibly.

Ecstacy/MDMA, Ketamine, and other such 'party' type drugs. I would love to see these legalised. As a teenager, it was much easier to get my hands on these than alcohol. Same for cannabis actually, I want to see that put under control if not just to restrict access to under 18s. It can do permanant damage to the brain, I won't deny that, same as alcohol in adolescents does far more damage to the immature liver. The main reason I want to see E/MDMA regulated, is because those pills are cut with such an amount of crap. Both the dosage and comedowns become far riskier with each cut. After that, if you're aware of issues like body temperature, heart speed and hydration, then you're fine, really. Education is far more valuable than trying to restrict these. Then, your biggest issues really are a whole lot of loved up people who probably aren't drinking alcohol, but need to be reminded to use condoms.

Speed, coke, crystal meth etc... I don't like. Personally just not my kinda thing, but also, far more addictive properties than the drugs mentioned above, as well as having a higher propensity for violence, and insomnia related insanity. Speaking of, actually, did you know there's increasing issues with people ending up in mental hospitals because of psychosis triggered by staying up for days, drinking coffee? I don't know what the solution is for these drugs. They'll always be demanded and supplied. What's interesting though, is that chronic addiction, the kind that people tend to think of when they think of 'drug addicts' is far, far more prevalent in lower socio-economic areas. The same goes for opiates.

The truly problematic drug use in our society can be traced to poverty. To disadvantage, to 'dysfunctional' families, to being a have-not watching everyone who 'has'. I think the best solution is to address the inequalities in our societies. It's no coincidence that the poorest people are the ones with most physical and mental health problems. The highest rates of addiction, the highest rates of death through addiction. Drugs really need to be treated as a health issue, not a criminal issue.

paddyandy

Most people cannot see beyond the obvious feel good factor .There was a lot of sweet talk about soft drugs in the '60s but if you went to 'frisco you'd see some awful sights .Legalising soft drugs has never worked and holland is currently blocking tourism for dopeheads . All Drugs are different from each other and their problems are different . Tobacco and Alcohol are not like anything else and the problems they create are different .Adding evil to evil just because the first evil exists does nothing but add more harm to us .We have enough problems as it is . People here are writing very long texts to confuse us and blur the differences .

charlemont

paddyandy wrote: »

Most people cannot see beyond the obvious feel good factor .There was a lot of sweet talk about soft drugs in the '60s but if you went to 'frisco you'd see some awful sights .Legalising soft drugs has never worked and holland is currently blocking tourism for dopeheads . All Drugs are different from each other and their problems are different . Tobacco and Alcohol are not like anything else and the problems they create are different .Adding evil to evil just because the first evil exists does nothing but add more harm to us .We have enough problems as it is .

Why don't you worry about your own problems ?? Too busy spreading rubbish instead, This country and do-gooders...It must be the fluoride in the water or something !!

frag420

paddyandy wrote: »

People here are writing very long texts to confuse us and blur the differences .

I would assume your are referring to the right honorable poster known as Ratsinparadise who posted above. Perhaps if you did some research instead of spouting hearsay and scaremongering you may be in a position to write a long text and attempt to confuse the rest of us.

None of you anti drug folks or as I like to refer to you as the fun police has attempted to reply to my post about mushrooms. Any particular reason or is purely because if we were to apply the same logic to alcohol and tobacco as we did magic mushrooms then you would have nowhere to go on a saturday night to drink shnapps and talk about GAA??

Now if your not too confused we await your reply..........

frAg

Prop Joe

frag420 wrote: »

then you would have nowhere to go on a saturday night to drink shnapps and talk about GAA??

Don't get it??

Anyways,Drugs are illegal so it shouldn't be done....That's the long and short of it

RatsInParadise

paddyandy wrote: »

Most people cannot see beyond the obvious feel good factor .There was a lot of sweet talk about soft drugs in the '60s but if you went to 'frisco you'd see some awful sights .Legalising soft drugs has never worked and holland is currently blocking tourism for dopeheads . All Drugs are different from each other and their problems are different . Tobacco and Alcohol are not like anything else and the problems they create are different .Adding evil to evil just because the first evil exists does nothing but add more harm to us .We have enough problems as it is . People here are writing very long texts to confuse us and blur the differences .

Most people can't see beyond the obvious feel good factor with alcohol either. They'll continue to accept the escalating social costs, but moan every time tax goes up, and simply won't hear of it being made illegal. "Sure, there's some that abuse it, but that's no reason to ruin it for the rest of us".

Tobacco is just ridiculous, really, because it literally has NO benefit except to provide relief from an addiction.

I hope the very long text comment wasn't aimed at me. I don't have a solution. I despise the personal freedoms I'm denied because somebody who doesn't know me has decided it's "for the best". But I acknowledge that there will always be a minority of people with any substance that will abuse themselves with it and cause detrimental effects to the rest of society.

The largest problem is the culture within which the drugs are taken. Many of the problematic drugs in our society, or similar ones are used in other cultures around the world, in a far more defined and restricted setting. I think that our issues with drugs reflect something far more unsettling about our society's attitude to ourselves, stress relief and recreational needs rather than the direct influence of the drugs themselves.

RatsInParadise

Prop Joe wrote: »

Don't get it??

Anyways,Drugs are illegal so it shouldn't be done....That's the long and short of it

Some drugs are illegal. I assure you, if we were to meet at a party or social gathering, you'd much rather talk to me if I was on e, acid or pot than if I was drinking alcohol.

What intrigues me about your post is the word "shouldn't". It's a very definite and judgmental term. Leaving out the system that's in place today to supply them, what reasons have you for making such a judgement about what I am allowed to do to my own body and brain in the privacy of my own home?

(I know the initial post was about doing them in nightclubs, etc, but "the long and short of it" being that they shouldn't be done at all, brings this into my home too).

Prop Joe

RatsInParadise wrote: »

Some drugs are illegal. I assure you, if we were to meet at a party or social gathering, you'd much rather talk to me if I was on e, acid or pot than if I was drinking alcohol.

What intrigues me about your post is the word "shouldn't". It's a very definite and judgmental term. Leaving out the system that's in place today to supply them, what reasons have you for making such a judgement about what I am allowed to do to my own body and brain in the privacy of my own home?

(I know the initial post was about doing them in nightclubs, etc, but "the long and short of it" being that they shouldn't be done at all, brings this into my home too).

Some drugs are illegal and shouldn't be used as it is illegal.You can't justify breaking the law....I think

RatsInParadise

I can, and do. As I alluded in my initial post, I am unable to function in society without the use of cannabis. Without it, I'm unable to hold down my job, studies, relationships, friends or stay out of mental institutions and hospitals with repeated suicide attempts. I'll argue till my death that it should at least be decriminalised. Whatever about the other drugs, I fully believe that I am doing absolutely nothing wrong by breaking the laws around cannabis. I know exactly where my supply comes from, I know exactly what chemicals were and weren't used in growing it. The only damage I'm doing, really, is in smoking it rather than using a vapouriser, but I'm working on saving up for one of those, so won't even be doing damage to my lungs

I can't justify blindly following the law. Laws can change, be amended. There have certainly been plenty of laws throughout history that were patently wrong, immoral, inethical and/or abusive in their natures.