Social Welfare reporting figues are 16,000 this year!

LighterGuy

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1228/welfare.html

Figures from the department show the level of reporting has risen from just over 579 in 2006 to over 16,000 this year.
With an annual bill of over €20bn, the Government has been strongly targeting welfare fraud as a means of saving money.
Its means of doing so has included appealing to the public for assistance and the new figures suggest the strategy has been a success.
The majority of reports about fraud were for working and claiming which accounted for just over 7,000 cases. 831 of the reports concerned individuals suspected of claiming here while living abroad.
Of the 16,000 tip-offs this year, in 12,304 cases a report of suspected fraud was sent to an inspector for follow-up action.
On the other 3,838 tip-offs, no report was issued due to a "lack of information, no claim being in payment or the information reported would not impact on entitlement," the department said.

The estimated potential savings from clamping down on welfare fraud vary from €500m to €20m in a single year.
The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Brian Hayes, has said the Government is determined to make savings in the order of €500m next year through its continued crackdown on welfare fraud.
He said the public response was indicative a sense of "fair play" in Irish people and a recognition that when 40% of the total Budget expenditure was in the area of social protection, it was wrong that fraud should be tolerated.
He said it was crucial that information be given and followed-up so that action can be taken against those who were defrauding the State.

16,000 reports in 2011. Just over 579 reports in 2006. Obviously more people of the social now than 2006 - so more people frauding etc. But even then, over 3,000 reports were made falsely.

Geez, Irish people are a bunch of begruders. Such reports just confirm this for me.

Jarren

Fair Play

Stinicker

Good job to catch those welfare cheats, Sean Fitzpatrick & Bertie Ahern must be laughing at all us proles squabbling over who gets the crumbs from the table. While they laugh away with their fat bonuses and ill gotten money.

mike65

LighterGuy wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1228/welfare.html




16,000 reports in 2011. Just over 579 reports in 2006. Obviously more people of the social now than 2006 - so more people frauding etc. But even then, over 3,000 reports were made falsely.

Geez, Irish people are a bunch of begruders. Such reports just confirm this for me.

Begruders? You wouldn't say that if you were mugged! Its pretty much the same thing.

Biggins

Considering 70,000 approx left the county this year in one direction or another - it could have been a lot higher!

previous user

Plenty of jobs in Mcdonalds.

My name is URL

I wonder what percentage of reported cases turn out to be genuinely fraudulent claims, and how much money is wasted on investigating the rest.

It's great that people are reporting suspected fraud but it wouldn't be necessary if the SW system was efficient and thorough in how it functions. They shouldn't be relying on the public to put an end to abuse.

Kensington

It's not begrudgery at all.

Would you report a robbery?
Because that's essentially what social welfare fraud is.

jammstarr

previous user wrote: »

Plenty of jobs in Mcdonalds.

I burnt that bridge years ago alas.

AnonoBoy

LighterGuy wrote: »

Geez, Irish people are a bunch of begruders. Such reports just confirm this for me.

Awwww is somebody still a ickle bit angry that he got ratted out by his friends?

Biggins

Stinicker wrote: »

Good job to catch those welfare cheats, Sean Fitzpatrick & Bertie Ahern must be laughing at all us proles squabbling over who gets the crumbs from the table. While they laugh away with their fat bonuses and ill gotten money.

Indeed!

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/backbench-pensions-bonanza-euro50000-a-year-for-life-2973776.html

mathepac

LighterGuy wrote: »

... But even then, over 3,000 reports were made falsely...

Where did you get that figure and how do you know they were made falsely?

hooradiation

mathepac wrote: »

Where did you get that figure and how do you know they were made falsely?

Using my eyes to read the words, I have solved this mystery.

On the other 3,838 tip-offs, no report was issued due to a "lack of information, no claim being in payment or the information reported would not impact on entitlement," the department said.

I am a dammed magician.

marketty

LighterGuy wrote: »

16,000 reports in 2011. Just over 579 reports in 2006.
Geez, Irish people are a bunch of begruders. Such reports just confirm this for me.

Just over 579? Would that be 580?

And yes I do begrudge people fleecing the system. I work and pay a lot of tax, my girlfriend is unemployed at the minute and gets nothing because she is means tested on my income, even though we're not married. Money is tight but we can hold our heads up and say we are making do by ourselves rather than making false claims like so many do

44leto

They should offer an anonymous reward of say 500 to those that report someone who was later proven to be a fraudster.

Agricola

Stinicker wrote: »

Good job to catch those welfare cheats, Sean Fitzpatrick & Bertie Ahern must be laughing at all us proles squabbling over who gets the crumbs from the table. While they laugh away with their fat bonuses and ill gotten money.

Exactly. No one really gave a shít about welfare fraud back in the good old days of 5 years ago. We were all too busy building houses, booking our third foreign holiday of the year and ordering our SUV.
"Sure there loadsa a money around anyway isnt there? What difference if a few people cheat the system, the main thing is Im doing ok and I don't really care"

Skip forward to 2011 and suddenly all these people who can't afford their mortgage repayments, their holidays and their new SUV have become good upstanding citizens and want to root out welfare fraud!
Begrudgery is alive and well. It never went away.

Helix

hooradiation wrote: »

Using my eyes to read the words, I have solved this mystery.



I am a dammed magician.

that doesnt say they were made falsely though

saa

previous user wrote: »

Plenty of jobs in Mcdonalds.

Sarcasm, heh how amusing.

44leto

Agricola wrote: »

Exactly. No one really gave a shít about welfare fraud back in the good old days of 5 years ago. We were all too busy building houses, booking our third foreign holiday of the year and ordering our SUV.
"Sure there loadsa a money around anyway isnt there? What difference if a few people cheat the system, the main thing is Im doing ok and I don't really care"

Skip forward to 2011 and suddenly all these people who can't afford their mortgage repayments, their holidays and their new SUV have become good upstanding citizens and want to root out welfare fraud!
Begrudgery is alive and well. It never went away.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what are they to do to reduce the deficit, are those people you posted about in 2011 who can't afford their lifestyle in this economy to pay even higher taxes to support the current levels of welfare fraud.

I say get the cheating bastards and I said that when the economy was good.

hooradiation

Helix wrote: »

that doesnt say they were made falsely though

I'm wondering what other conclusion you could draw from that.

If the accusations led to nothing on the grounds that there was a "lack of information, no claim being in payment or the information reported would not impact on entitlement" then what else could they be but false?

Helix

hooradiation wrote: »

I'm wondering what other conclusion you could draw from that.

If the accusations led to nothing on the grounds that there was a "lack of information, no claim being in payment or the information reported would not impact on entitlement" then what else could they be but false?

they may have a valid claim, but not enough information to prove it. they may have thought they had a valid claim, but didn't. they may have reported something that was actually allowed

the suggestion that they're false claims make it seem like you reckon people are out to screw people over with knowingly inaccurate information or something

they can be legitimate claims and still not actually amount to anything

fat__tony

LighterGuy wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1228/welfare.html




16,000 reports in 2011. Just over 579 reports in 2006. Obviously more people of the social now than 2006 - so more people frauding etc. But even then, over 3,000 reports were made falsely.

Geez, Irish people are a bunch of begruders. Such reports just confirm this for me.

Begrudging people who possibly/probably steal taxpayers money from the public purse??

Get a grip.

mcmoustache

Dole cheats take money from those who are legitimately entitled to be on it. They also take money from hospitals, the police, schools and pensions.
Trying to justify their behaviour by accusing their detracters of begrudgery is pathetic.

cooperguy

Agricola wrote: »

Exactly. No one really gave a shít about welfare fraud back in the good old days of 5 years ago. We were all too busy building houses, booking our third foreign holiday of the year and ordering our SUV.
"Sure there loadsa a money around anyway isnt there? What difference if a few people cheat the system, the main thing is Im doing ok and I don't really care"

Skip forward to 2011 and suddenly all these people who can't afford their mortgage repayments, their holidays and their new SUV have become good upstanding citizens and want to root out welfare fraud!
Begrudgery is alive and well. It never went away.

What the hell are you on about!!

Who's Begrudging who??

SteedIrl

44leto wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what are they to do to reduce the deficit, are those people you posted about in 2011 who can't afford their lifestyle in this economy to pay even higher taxes to support the current levels of welfare fraud.

I say get the cheating bastards and I said that when the economy was good.

I don't know! Perhaps the government could start with austerity for all instead of austerity for the paupers.

The nation is told to tighten our belts for austerity while they dip into the coffers to loosen their belts,
Ie. Expense increases
Over paying advisors because of the Loreal they're worth it effect.

fedor.2.

mcmoustache wrote: »

Dole cheats take money from those who are legitimately entitled to be on it. They also take money from hospitals, the police, schools and pensions.
Trying to justify their behaviour by accusing their detracters of begrudgery is pathetic.

Thats quiet the stretch. How much money do you think is being lost to fraud exactly??? Silly Irish, a magicians wet dream, we are easily misdirected

Amirani

fedor.2. wrote: »

Thats quiet the stretch. How much money do you think is being lost to fraud exactly??? Silly Irish, a magicians wet dream, we are easily misdirected

Perhaps 500mil based on the reports. Almost enough to pay for the entirety of the new National Children's Hospital. Or enough to employ about 14000 people on the average industrial wage. Not an insignificant amount I'm sure you'll agree.

Liam Byrne

We were all too busy building houses, booking our third foreign holiday of the year and ordering our SUV.

What a load of rubbish!

fedor.2.

Id rather the department sorted out the amount of overpayments they issue, plus the other costs incurred by inefficient work practices, both of which cost as much, if not more, than fraud. Of course fraudsters should be caught and punished, but lets not take our eye off the bigger picture.

44leto

SteedIrl wrote: »

I don't know! Perhaps the government could start with austerity for all instead of austerity for the paupers.

The nation is told to tighten our belts for austerity while they dip into the coffers to loosen their belts,
Ie. Expense increases
Over paying advisors because of the Loreal they're worth it effect.

What are you on about??

As for expense account that is legal and they are entitled to claim expenses as most are in any job.

What they are going after is criminals, plain and simple, criminals who are taking from all of us.

LighterGuy

cooperguy wrote: »

What the hell are you on about!!

Who's Begrudging who??

I agree with Agricola.
And to answer your question, people are begruding people.
Times are different now. Rewind 6 years ago. Average person was happy in a job. People werent caring about what others got... as they were working away making money.

Skip to present day. So many unemployed. Alot of people feeling the pinch. Now peoples attentions are focusing onto others with money and whos still making money. Im sure you have heard various unemployed people moaning about someone having a job, right? .. "the lucky bastard" - "he wouldnt work in a fit" etc. That being begrudery.

But begrudery is in all ways now. To a person on the social claiming 2 euro more. To a person getting a nixer. To a person 'frauding' (be it social or any other) ... to a person working in the public sector. its all money related. That another is getting something "they are not"

... but rewind 6 years ago? ... where was all this out cry to the above?

senordingdong

previous user wrote: »

Plenty of jobs in Mcdonalds.

There aren't really.

zootroid

LighterGuy wrote: »

I agree with Agricola.
And to answer your question, people are begruding people.
Times are different now. Rewind 6 years ago. Average person was happy in a job. People werent caring about what others got... as they were working away making money.

Skip to present day. So many unemployed. Alot of people feeling the pinch. Now peoples attentions are focusing onto others with money and whos still making money. Im sure you have heard various unemployed people moaning about someone having a job, right? .. "the lucky bastard" - "he wouldnt work in a fit" etc. That being begrudery.

But begrudery is in all ways now. To a person on the social claiming 2 euro more. To a person getting a nixer. To a person 'frauding' (be it social or any other) ... to a person working in the public sector. its all money related. That another is getting something "they are not"

... but rewind 6 years ago? ... where was all this out cry to the above?

I'm curious, suppose a person realised someone within the company he worked for was defrauding that company, and he reported it, would you consider that "begrudgery"? Suppose he was an accountant, and had to report it?

Or the person who made a complaint to the guards about Ivor Callely when his expenses became well known (forging invoices from a mobile phone company that no longer existed), is that "begrudgery"?

Just interested to know when you think "begrudgery" stops, and doing the right thing starts?

Biggins

mcmoustache wrote: »

Dole cheats take money from those who are legitimately entitled to be on it. They also take money from hospitals, the police, schools and pensions.
Trying to justify their behaviour by accusing their detracters of begrudgery is pathetic.

I do not disagree in any way - but sadly even then, the ones that are genuine cases, are sadly lumped then by some into a whole tainting of "lazy sods who don't want to work a day in their life and are just there to live off the state".

I've read it so many times in the year across the internet!

Kensington

LighterGuy wrote: »

I agree with Agricola.
And to answer your question, people are begruding people.
Times are different now. Rewind 6 years ago. Average person was happy in a job. People werent caring about what others got... as they were working away making money.

Skip to present day. So many unemployed. Alot of people feeling the pinch. Now peoples attentions are focusing onto others with money and whos still making money. Im sure you have heard various unemployed people moaning about someone having a job, right? .. "the lucky bastard" - "he wouldnt work in a fit" etc. That being begrudery.

But begrudery is in all ways now. To a person on the social claiming 2 euro more. To a person getting a nixer. To a person 'frauding' (be it social or any other) ... to a person working in the public sector. its all money related. That another is getting something "they are not"

... but rewind 6 years ago? ... where was all this out cry to the above?

If you worked your backside off for the past six years, paid potlots of tax, have been laid off and struggling to make ends meet but you're not entitled to a whole lot Social Welfare wise, yet the guy down the road is milking hundreds of euro a week, wouldn't you start to question too?

Or a plumber/electrician/carpenter, playing everything above board and by the books. Work's dried up though so struggling to attract enough jobs to keep themselves going, yet the guy down the road taking cash in hand, paying no VAT, no PRSI, no PAYE, no company overheads is seriously undermining the guy trying to stay legit and make a day's living out of it. Is he nothing but a begrudger too?

You say they're "only claiming 2 euro" more. They're not though.
Women claiming single parents allowance, rent allowance and all sorts while the boyfriend is living in the house could be claiming hundreds of euro a month they're not entitled to. Collectively, there's millions of euro being defrauded.

And I think the critical thing behind this - it's the "sure leave him be, what business is it of yours, what harm's he doing" attitude that let the banks run riot in this country and brought us to the financial ruin we are in today.

44leto

LighterGuy wrote: »

I agree with Agricola.
And to answer your question, people are begruding people.
Times are different now. Rewind 6 years ago. Average person was happy in a job. People werent caring about what others got... as they were working away making money.

Skip to present day. So many unemployed. Alot of people feeling the pinch. Now peoples attentions are focusing onto others with money and whos still making money. Im sure you have heard various unemployed people moaning about someone having a job, right? .. "the lucky bastard" - "he wouldnt work in a fit" etc. That being begrudery.

But begrudery is in all ways now. To a person on the social claiming 2 euro more. To a person getting a nixer. To a person 'frauding' (be it social or any other) ... to a person working in the public sector. its all money related. That another is getting something "they are not"

... but rewind 6 years ago? ... where was all this out cry to the above?

Begrudgery, do you know the IMF/ECB had to bail us out and our budget still is in the red, big time. How is it begrudgery that I don't want Ireland to end up like Greece or Argentina in the 80s.

We all know there has to be budgetary cuts and tax increases, so if you can soften these coming blows by catching some welfare stealing criminals, they have my absolute support.

gerryo777

44leto wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what are they to do to reduce the deficit, are those people you posted about in 2011 who can't afford their lifestyle in this economy to pay even higher taxes to support the current levels of welfare fraud.

I say get the cheating bastards and I said that when the economy was good.

We could be reducing our deficit a lot easier and quicker if we didn't pay off unsecured secondary bondholders in anglo and the likes and used that money to
build schools, hospitals and the infrastructure this country is crying out for.
Getting people back to work in these areas is what we should be doing.

gerryo777

NiallSparky wrote: »

Perhaps 500mil based on the reports. Almost enough to pay for the entirety of the new National Children's Hospital. Or enough to employ about 14000 people on the average industrial wage. Not an insignificant amount I'm sure you'll agree.

Or enough to pay the PS pay increments for 2 years!!!

44leto

gerryo777 wrote: »

We could be reducing our deficit a lot easier and quicker if we didn't pay off unsecured secondary bondholders in anglo and the likes and used that money to
build schools, hospitals and the infrastructure this country is crying out for.
Getting people back to work in these areas is what we should be doing.

No we wouldn't, that is a one off payment, the 17 billion YEARLY deficit will still be there. We have to reduce running expense costs or gather a greater yearly tax take.

skelliser

i call bull**** on this report.

Either the powers that be are ramping up the propaganda on people on the dole like they've been doing the last 2 years.
Or the PS workers in the dole office are adding extra zeros to their figures to justify their insane pay scales.

Rabidlamb

Meh, I know of a few local women who mind kids to top up their dole.
I'd never dob them in.
It means that they can meet their mortgage payment & the other family can avail of affordable childcare.
Win/win I say, pedants need not reply, thanks.

gerryo777

44leto wrote: »

No we wouldn't, that is a one off payment, the 17 billion YEARLY deficit will still be there. We have to reduce running expense costs or gather a greater yearly tax take.

Sorry, the money being used to pay the anglo bondholders and to bail out the banks is being borrowed. Do we not have to pay that back? Is there not a massive interest bill to be paid every year? If this wasn't happening, our deficit would have been wiped out by now. It was €17 billion this year because we fired over €10 billion into anglo.

44leto

skelliser wrote: »

i call bull**** on this report.

Either the powers that be are ramping up the propaganda on people on the dole like they've been doing the last 2 years.
Or the PS workers in the dole office are adding extra zeros to their figures to justify their insane pay scales.

You do know that the budgetary expenditure is in the public domain. So some hack would have sussed if the reported figures in the report are false.

Besides whatever you say about PS pay levels, that is what they are, they are legally earned, what social welfare frauds steal is not.

gerryo777

44leto wrote: »

Begrudgery, do you know the IMF/ECB had to bail us out and our budget still is in the red, big time. How is it begrudgery that I don't want Ireland to end up like Greece or Argentina in the 80s.

We all know there has to be budgetary cuts and tax increases, so if you can soften these coming blows by catching some welfare stealing criminals, they have my absolute support.

We better catch the PS stealing criminals too then, you know, the ones in this country insisting on pay rises every year since this recession started or the ones who take more than double the 'sick' pay per year than their equivalent in the private sector.....

44leto

gerryo777 wrote: »

Sorry, the money being used to pay the anglo bondholders and to bail out the banks is being borrowed. Do we not have to pay that back? Is there not a massive interest bill to be paid every year? If this wasn't happening, our deficit would have been wiped out by now. It was €17 billion this year because we fired over €10 billion into anglo.

The borrowing is not factored into the deficit, we are borrowing to make ends meet, we are borrowing to maintain public services. The interest is factored into the expenditure, but again that is a yearly cost.

If we didn't pay the bondholders we wouldn't have got the bail out, simples, we had no choice. Don't be listening to Sinn Fein and the masses pandering.

previous user

Domo230 wrote: »

My CV got turned down by every McDonald's in Dublin.

Plenty of jobs in Burgerking

melekalikimaka

good news, long may it keep up... next increment dole decreases with time on it and replacing cash with vouchers and i can see the numbers dropping hella fast

senordingdong

melekalikimaka wrote: »

good news, long may it keep up... next increment dole decreases with time on it and replacing cash with vouchers and i can see the numbers dropping hella fast

T'will never happen, the govt. is dependant on these people paying the high excise on fags, booze etc.... to ever replace it with vouchers.

gerryo777

44leto wrote: »

The borrowing is not factored into the deficit, we are borrowing to make ends meet, we are borrowing to maintain public services. The interest is factored into the expenditure, but again that is a yearly cost.

If we didn't pay the bondholders we wouldn't have got the bail out, simples, we had no choice. Don't be listening to Sinn Fein and the masses pandering.

We had a choice ok but we chose and indeed still choose to roll over and be good little germans.
Somebody needs to stand up for this country soon and dobbing in your neighour
because you think they're getting a few more quid a week than their entitled to is not going to get this country back on its feet.
If people here feel that they know someone's else's buisness why don't they say it to their faces and not send anonymous emails to the social.
BTW I'm not a sinn fein supporter and I'm self-employed.

Biggins

melekalikimaka wrote: »

good news, long may it keep up... next increment dole decreases with time on it and replacing cash with vouchers and i can see the numbers dropping hella fast

Its a clear topic for a separate thread but I can't see that happening for some obvious reasons.

bonzos

So if I report that my friendly(not) local traveller site in Sligo is thriving on welfare fraud due the the collection of 11 reg bmw's parked outsite some action will be taken????.....ya right! SW has more interest in catching some poor b**tard who paints a room of a neighbour for €50(I know this is also fraud) than dealing with the hardcore gangsters who have being screwing the system for years.