NFL DRAFT 2012

matthew8

eagle eye wrote: »

I remember reading this a couple of months back.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/31/chan-gailey-confirms-bills-switching-to-4-3-defense/

I agree that 2 good ILBs is very useful in many defenses, but when you're primarily a 4-3 defense, I think the 9 pick is too much for someone who will only be a number 2 until Beason slows down and you have already given a fairly big contract to James Anderson, so it will be interesting what they decide to do with their 3 players. Do you think any of them could move outside?

HigginsJ

matthew8 wrote: »

I agree that 2 good ILBs is very useful in many defenses, but when you're primarily a 4-3 defense, I think the 9 pick is too much for someone who will only be a number 2 until Beason slows down and you have already given a fairly big contract to James Anderson, so it will be interesting what they decide to do with their 3 players. Do you think any of them could move outside?

Kuelchy is a machine. Kick him outside backer if needs be. He has pace, can play coveage, is an utter tackling machine.

You cant downgrade a pick just because you have a decent player at the positon already. Giants had Osi n Tuck when we took JPP and that worked out fairly well. No reason this cant either.

JaMarcus Hustle

Kuechly is right up there with DeCastro as the best pound for pound player in the draft imo without considering positional values.

matthew8

HigginsJ wrote: »

Kuelchy is a machine. Kick him outside backer if needs be. He has pace, can play coveage, is an utter tackling machine.

You cant downgrade a pick just because you have a decent player at the positon already. Giants had Osi n Tuck when we took JPP and that worked out fairly well. No reason this cant either.

Whoa. I'm not downgrading the pick, I'm just wondering about just how much you can do when you have 2 good MLBs already in a 4-3. With DE you can rack up excellent stats and contribute hugely without even starting, MLB not so much. But if he can play OLB then I have no problem with the pick.

eagle eye

matthew8 wrote: »

I agree that 2 good ILBs is very useful in many defenses, but when you're primarily a 4-3 defense, I think the 9 pick is too much for someone who will only be a number 2 until Beason slows down and you have already given a fairly big contract to James Anderson, so it will be interesting what they decide to do with their 3 players. Do you think any of them could move outside?

Sorry Matthew I put up the wrong link there. I cannot find the right one now either. I remember reading that the Panthers were experimenting late last season with the 3-4 and it looked like they were going that way. Rivera had moved to 3-4 in San Diego, in his last year as DC before taking the head coaching job in Carolina, with impressive results. I believe they are going down the route of having a base 3-4 and Kuechly is exactly what they needed if thats the case. That would mean there is room for Beason and Anderson in the lineup.

HigginsJ

matthew8 wrote: »

Whoa. I'm not downgrading the pick, I'm just wondering about just how much you can do when you have 2 good MLBs already in a 4-3. With DE you can rack up excellent stats and contribute hugely without even starting, MLB not so much. But if he can play OLB then I have no problem with the pick.

Sorry wasn't having a go.

Kuechly just has it all. I dont see how you can pass on him. Its up to the defensive co-ordinator to make it work. You can never have enough talent on D.

Beason missed all of last year, Davis is pretty injury prone too.
If you have a healthy Jon Beason, Jonathan Davis and Luke Kuechley you make it work!!

matthew8

eagle eye wrote: »

Sorry Matthew I put up the wrong link there. I cannot find the right one now either. I remember reading that the Panthers were experimenting late last season with the 3-4 and it looked like they were going that way. Rivera had moved to 3-4 in San Diego, in his last year as DC before taking the head coaching job in Carolina, with impressive results. I believe they are going down the route of having a base 3-4 and Kuechly is exactly what they needed if thats the case. That would mean there is room for Beason and Anderson in the lineup.

Well then that clears up a lot and makes the pick makes a lot of sense. I wonder what Charles Johnson would make of the 3-4 though.

eagle eye

matthew8 wrote: »

Well then that clears up a lot and makes the pick makes a lot of sense. I wonder what Charles Johnson would make of the 3-4 though.

I really don't know that much about Charles Johnson but I presume he would be in the mix for OLB, prob a tweener in that system in that he can play with his hand in the dirt or upright?

Stev_o

F*ck me what a draft! Im glad Packers got Perry it's a nice pass rush option for us.

Paully D

matthew8 wrote: »

It seems a lot of people think the Ravens will pick Upshaw. I'm not mad myself but he fixes a potentially problematic position. However the management may think that Sergio Kindle could finally work out. I'm more worried about the OL. What I can't figure out is why people want us to take a WR. We have the best FB in the league, the best HB in the league, a potent deep threat, Anquan Boldin and 2 good receiving tight ends who are onlt getting better. We just need a guy who can come in on the 2 minute drill in the playoffs and actually hold on to the ball. 35th pick is too much of a price for that.

Reckon we might look at Konz? He was mocked to the Ravens by a number of people and he fell out of the 1st round. Cordy Glenn is another one being mentioned.

matthew8

Paully D wrote: »

Reckon we might look at Konz? He was mocked to the Ravens by a number of people and he fell out of the 1st round. Cordy Glenn is another one being mentioned.

Konz is who I'm hoping for.

Paully D

matthew8 wrote: »

Konz is who I'm hoping for.

Seems to be a lot of talk about WR Stephen Hill creeping up now too.

matthew8

Paully D wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of talk about WR Stephen Hill creeping up now too.

I really don't get this. Boldin has plenty of years left and of course Smith has a whole career ahead of him. When the offensive line performed we were absolute world beaters. When it didn't we did poorly. We need to look after the future of the line with Konz. If we took him do you think he'd start at LG for this season? Lots of talk about Jah Reid there, wouldn't hurt his development into a LT.

Paully D

matthew8 wrote: »

I really don't get this. Boldin has plenty of years left and of course Smith has a whole career ahead of him. When the offensive line performed we were absolute world beaters. When it didn't we did poorly. We need to look after the future of the line with Konz. If we took him do you think he'd start at LG for this season? Lots of talk about Jah Reid there, wouldn't hurt his development into a LT.

About the WR position, I'd to agree but has Boldin been as productive as was hoped or expected he would be? But we've never really been traditionally strong at WR anyway. There's other positions we need to get sorted first, but Ozzie always takes the player they have rated highest at the time regardless of if we need to strengthen somewhere else first so if they have him highest rated I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us take him.

On Konz, I think he would start at guard first. I'd see him as a short-term fix at guard and a long term answer at centre. I'm of the same opinion as you with regards to Konz, he's the one I want. Watched a decent amount of footage from him and read up on him as I thought we'd have ended up taking him at 29 last night. He's really powerful, very quick for a man his size and is a top run blocker. If we got him I think he'd be a great addition and would be part of the organisation for a long time.

In Ozzie we trust :cool:

eagle eye

matthew8 wrote: »

I really don't get this. Boldin has plenty of years left and of course Smith has a whole career ahead of him. When the offensive line performed we were absolute world beaters. When it didn't we did poorly. We need to look after the future of the line with Konz. If we took him do you think he'd start at LG for this season? Lots of talk about Jah Reid there, wouldn't hurt his development into a LT.

What happens if either of Boldin or Smith go down for any length of time? Who comes in for them? Have you any real depth at WR?

Its not just depth that you have to consider either, do you have a good no.3 receiver? The NFL is gone pass happy and while the Ravens depend more on defense to win games you need to be able to put enough points on the board to actually win the games.

When I think about the Ravens losses over the last couple of years I always think about low scoring games. I am not sure what the depth is like in Baltimore, I remember last season you brought in Lee Evans and he didn't work out, I think he was injured for a while?

Anyways if you have depth then fine but if you don't then I think the Ravens have to take a good WR prospect again.

matthew8

Paully D wrote: »

In Ozzie we trust :cool:

That's it. If this guy picked a long snapper I wouldn't complain. He knows his stuff. We've had some great drafts over the years. Last years was very good. Jimmy Smith-Starter already. Torrey Smith-Starter already. Jah Reid-Ready to start. Tandon Doss-Do you know what the story is here? Apparently he is Boldin's clone and Joe likes him. Pernell McPhee-Great addition to the team last year in pass rush.

matthew8

What happens if either of Boldin or Smith go down for any length of time? Who comes in for them? Have you any real depth at WR?

It's the top pick in our draft. We don't want to just add depth. I want to secure the very near future with Peter Konz.

Its not just depth that you have to consider either, do you have a good no.3 receiver? The NFL is gone pass happy and while the Ravens depend more on defense to win games you need to be able to put enough points on the board to actually win the games.

We have an insanely good backfield and we are very capable of going 2TE too. I mean a no. 3 WR is needed but maybe later in the draft. If we were going to run an offense like the Steelers frequently using 3 WRs we wouldn't have signed Vonta Leach last year.

When I think about the Ravens losses over the last couple of years I always think about low scoring games. I am not sure what the depth is like in Baltimore, I remember last season you brought in Lee Evans and he didn't work out, I think he was injured for a while?

He was a disaster, like Houshmanzadeh. Crucial playoff drop. I think we can get a third WR later in the draft though. Doss could also fill in there. Good hands.

Anyways if you have depth then fine but if you don't then I think the Ravens have to take a good WR prospect again.

Good prospect, needed definitely. 35th pick guy, not so much. I really hope Doss can work out. Playoff games are won and lost in the 2 minute drill, but we can complete one without 3 very good WRs, like we did in Pittsburgh.

Arawn

Fell completely asleep early in disgust as i had rock climbing this morning, I know nothing of yer man packers drafted,so anyone tell me is he any use??

JaMarcus Hustle

Arawn wrote: »

Fell completely asleep early in disgust as i had rock climbing this morning, I know nothing of yer man packers drafted,so anyone tell me is he any use??

Might sound biased as a USC fan, but Perry is a fantastic player. The last pass rusher you guys draft from USC didn't work out too badly, Perry could well have a similar impact. Those two opposite each other is a very taste prospect for you Packers fans.

Arawn

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Might sound biased as a USC fan, but Perry is a fantastic player. The last pass rusher you guys draft from USC didn't work out too badly, Perry could well have a similar impact. Those two opposite each other is a very taste prospect for you Packers fans.

will be nice to see pressure on both sides. Poor matthews musta just thought what the **** half way through last season

Paully D

There'll be a few streams here if anyone is wanting a link tonight:

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/sport/american-football.html

Around 11:50pm they'll all start to come up!

Paully D

matthew8 wrote: »

That's it. If this guy picked a long snapper I wouldn't complain. He knows his stuff. We've had some great drafts over the years. Last years was very good. Jimmy Smith-Starter already. Torrey Smith-Starter already. Jah Reid-Ready to start. Tandon Doss-Do you know what the story is here? Apparently he is Boldin's clone and Joe likes him. Pernell McPhee-Great addition to the team last year in pass rush.

Interesting article on the WR options here:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-04-23/sports/bs-sp-ravens-draft-0424-20120423_1_joe-hortiz-ravens-planning-ravens-director

Last year, with the Ravens planning to select a wide receiver in the middle rounds of the NFL draft, team officials turned to quarterback Joe Flacco for advice.

He pushed for Tandon Doss, a possession receiver out of Indiana, because he thought Doss would be easy to throw to.

But Doss' abilities didn't translate immediately to the NFL — he played in only six games and didn't have a catch — and with Anquan Boldin in the final year of his contract, the Ravens are again in search of a player who might help Flacco reach his full potential.

Receiver is one of this draft's deepest positions. ESPN's resident guru, Mel Kiper, predicted more than 30 could be selected. And the Ravens will probably have to decide how important the need is to them in the opening round: two intriguing prospects from pass-deficient offenses could be there when they pick at No. 29.

Georgia Tech's Stephen Hill impressed scouts at the combine with his 6-foot-4, 215-pound frame and 4.31 40-yard-dash time. But Hill caught fewer than 50 passes in his college career. Last year, as a junior, he made 28, averaged nearly 30 yards per catch and scored five touchdowns for a Yellow Jackets team running the option offense Paul Johnson implemented at Navy 10 years ago.

"A guy like Hill, he obviously showed up at the combine," Ravens director of college scouting Joe Hortiz said. "Everyone watched it. He's an explosive guy who plays in that triple-option offense and really jumped off the film in terms of vertical speed. He's raw, like a lot of guys are who have come out of that offense."

Rueben Randle was in a similar situation; he had only 44 catches his first two years as LSU relied heavily on the read option, but caught 53 for 917 yards and eight touchdowns as a junior. He's big (6 foot 3, 210 pounds) and ran a 4.55 at the combine.

Either Hill or Randle could give the Ravens a new element on offense: a receiver who can go up and make catches on the outside. Last year's second-round pick, Torrey Smith, is a pure burner who generally needs separation to make a play. Boldin isn't as fast or physical as he once was. Doss can get open in certain situations but hasn't yet shown he can win battles against NFL corners. Same for LaQuan Williams, the undrafted free agent signee out of Maryland who saw considerable time on special teams.

"One guy I really like for [the Ravens] is LSU's Rueben Randle," said Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. and ESPN. "He's kind of a do-it-all guy with a lot of ability. He had really poor quarterback play at LSU, a Stone Age-type offense. I think he's a much better pro than he is collegiate."

Historically, though, the Ravens have struggled scouting top receivers. They've twice drafted them in the first round. Both Mark Clayton (No. 22 in 2005) and Travis Taylor (the 10th pick in 2000) fizzled.

"That's probably the one area from when I was there to since that they've struggled," former Ravens coach Brian Billick said. "Torrey Smith looks like he has some potential. He could become a legitimate guy and end up being a really good pick. But that's been a problem area that they'd certainly like to address."

Ravens director of player personnel Eric DeCosta mentioned South Carolina's Alshon Jeffery as the sort of tough receiver who could make plays on the outside. At just under 6-3, Jeffery lacks top-end speed but has played effectively at nearly 230 pounds. He could be an option if the Ravens wait until the second round. Appalachian State's Brian Quick, another lanky prospect with upside, is also considered a second-round talent. He left school as the all-time leader in catches, yards and touchdowns but claims he rarely received positional coaching. He also played only one year of high school football and is considered a project.

But there's also a number of smaller speedy receivers – who play in the slot or on the outside and could also contribute in the return game — available. Baylor's Kendall Wright is considered the top playmaker in that group and could fall to the end of the first round. The Ravens could also pick up a player like Arkansas' Joe Adams as late as the third round, or Florida International's T.Y. Hilton. Neither is expected to become more than a No. 3 receiver — at least early in their careers — but they have the potential to be explosive return men and would give offensive coordinator Cam Cameron more diversity when calling plays.

Some analysts see the Ravens' lack of receivers who can make a play off a quick slant or bubble screen as a weakness that has hurt Flacco. Williamson believes Flacco is most comfortable in the shotgun because he is able scan the field more quickly and spot open receivers.

"When you look at their offense, it's quite predictable," he said. "They don't do a lot to set [Flacco] up to get receivers open. I think the receivers in general are a little bit of a weakness. Boldin is a good player, but he doesn't separate that well. He's not all that fast. And Torrey Smith is sort of a one-trick pony."

Of course the Ravens could end up with a more prototypical receiver, one who is neither uniquely sized or especially fast. A trio of Big Ten receivers — Illinois' A.J. Jenkins, Wisconsin's Nick Toon and Iowa's Marvin McNutt — appear to be solid choices, as does Rutgers' Mohamed Sanu.

Mikemac1 may be able to tell us more about Doss if he sees this.

mikemac1

Paully D wrote: »

Mikemac1 may be able to tell us more about Doss if he sees this.

I see everything :cool:

Being the lazy type, my summary of Doss and where he is in the depth chart is here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76246653&postcount=6

Doss will contribute next year for sure
However it's difficult for him, he doesn't compliment Boldin, he has pretty much the same game as Boldin.
Then we have the two TE's so not a lot of opportunities plus he got beat out for special teams by an undrafted rookie
We may not fully see Doss until Boldin leaves/retires

I am tired of us bringing in older options, Housh, Stallworth and Evans.
It never works.

It doesn't have to be Stephen Hill, have my eye on Brian Quick in the third
But we do need to draft a reciever for sure

Cam Cameron is the most stubborn and inflexible man in the league and the players must fit his system, not the system fit the available players.

Another burner to stretch the field would be perfect.

If it's Hill so be it but I badly want Cordy Glenn and Courtney Upshaw in the second. We have plently of picks and can package them to move up.
There are options for WR's in the third,

JaMarcus Hustle

Nice touch on NFL Network having David Shaw interview Andrew Luck. A fine footballer, but God does he look and sound like the biggest nerd in the world. If he wasn't at the draft last night, you just know he would have been holed up at home playing minecraft.

HigginsJ

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Nice touch on NFL Network having David Shaw interview Andrew Luck. A fine footballer, but God does he look and sound like the biggest nerd in the world. If he wasn't at the draft last night, you just know he would have been holed up at home playing minecraft.

Or on some forum chatting about NFL draft. Wat a nerd........ oh wait

eagle eye

Rumours that Brian Quick might be the 33rd pick.

Chucky the tree

Is there anyway of getting rid of that tracker on the nfl.com stream? basically spoils the annoucement.

Stev_o

eagle eye wrote: »

Rumours that Brian Quick might be the 33rd pick.

And so it is. Any reason though. Seems strange.

JaMarcus Hustle

Wow, delighted for Quick.

eagle eye

Stev_o wrote: »

And so it is. Any reason though. Seems strange.

Why strange? He is highly touted, only thing was he was playing Div 1AA football.

Stev_o

Stanford boys unite.

eagle eye

Indy are boring, two picks and everybody knew who they were taking when the pick came up!

Stev_o

eagle eye wrote: »

Why strange? He is highly touted, only thing was he was playing Div 1AA football.

Div 1AA football being the first pick in the second round is a bit of a stretch when Hill ,Randall and Sanu still up ?

JaMarcus Hustle

Luck and Fleener together again. Really nice story, good move by Indy.

Surely the Ravens take Upshaw?

matthew8

Fking ESPN. Yeah, let's go to an adbreak, it's only the Ravens who are on the clock.

ReacherCreature

Can see Fleener flying on some fantasy radars.

empacher

matthew8 wrote: »

Fking ESPN. Yeah, let's go to an adbreak, it's only the Ravens who are on the clock.

makes sense

Stev_o

Good replacement.

Paully D

Upshaw it is. Ozzie drafts another Alabama player

eagle eye

Stev_o wrote: »

Div 1AA football being the first pick in the second round is a bit of a stretch when Hill ,Randall and Sanu still up ?

Well obviously they think he is better. Mayock said he was impressive once he got used to the pace at the Senior bowl. Just because he played a lower level doesn't mean he isn't every bit as good or better. Just that he wasn't a hot prospect coming out of high school or maybe wanted to go to a particular school.

And Ravens go D, surprise, surprise.

matthew8

Courtney Upshaw. Good pick. Fills a hole. First round talent.

ReacherCreature

Will be a nice boost to Ravens defense. Lot to learn from Lewis, Suggs.

JaMarcus Hustle

Fantastic pick tbh

spiralism

Peter Konz here and i'm happy out. JD Walton is no Jeff Saturday

matthew8

Looks like the Browns will get Hill, that would really complete this draft for them. Total offensive rebuild.

JaMarcus Hustle

Wolfe ahead of Still and Worthy, wow.

Paully D

Wolfe was a bit of a shocker there.

Mr. Guappa

Rich Eisen leading Mike Mayock, Brian Billick and Charles Davis on NFLN.. I like.

mikemac1

And no Michael Irvin or Jamie Dukes

Good stuff NFL Network

LuckyLloyd

Stev_o wrote: »

Div 1AA football being the first pick in the second round is a bit of a stretch when Hill ,Randall and Sanu still up ?

He might be better than Hill imo, but really - it was probably just a case that he was their guy and they reckoned he wouldn't be there when they were next up.