Primary school or Secondary school teaching?

leanneee

I am in leaving cert now and i soon have to fill out the cao form...except i have no idea what to put down as my first chioce Its will be something probably in teaching because thats what i really want to do...but what do i choose? It will be either Primary school teaching Or Home ec teaching with either religion or economics! I both love them so i cant choose!
So this is where i need the help...my decision will come down to a few things which i need your help on...

-Job prospects for both
-which one do you think would be most enjoyable and if you have any experience in either of them which you could tell me about (especially home ec teaching!)
- Salary on both of them (ive looked up the pay scale but then people are talking about extras and higher qualifications and i have no idea what they all mean)

So if you have got any sort of advice no matter big or small it would be greatly appreciated!

byhookorbycrook

Can you get some work experience in both?Jobs are very hard to come by at both levels, no matter your subjects/experience.I am primary and wouldn't teach secondary for any money, but lots of my friends teaching secondary say the same about primary.

dambarude

I was in the same predicament myself when in Leaving Cert 4 years ago. I came very close to doing secondary Science teaching, but decided it against in the end. I'm glad I did.

They're both very different. You would really want to like children to enjoy primary teaching, particularly at the lower end (infants). Much of primary teaching courses are taken up with methodologies, and how to teach things. I'd imagine a lot of the secondary courses concern themselves more with content.

Job prospects for both are very bad, but seen as secondary teaching jobs seemed to be in short supply before there was any recession, I'd imagine it's worse.

Primary teachers can apply for almost any job that comes up in the primary sector, as you have a general qualification. Secondary teachers can only apply for jobs in which the have subject qualifications. I'd imagine that makes it more difficult to attain jobs.

Many secondary teachers are not on full hours. For the most part primary teachers have full time positions, owing to to the nature of the job. Of course with the splitting of resource and learning support hours in the last budget it's likely there will be more primary teachers employed on part time hours.

Pjays

I'm going to be a little biased here but I find Home Economics so interesting to teach because of the range of modules it contains. If you are tactile and enjoy being hands on, it is a great subject for engaging with, especially at junior certificate level. Additionally, if you have transition years, there is great scope for creating and developing your own teaching programme.

In terms of choosing an elective, religion and Gaeilge seem to have better job opportunities. Most Home Economics teachers end up only teaching Home Economics on their timetables.

I, personally would be unable to cope teaching at primary level. As part of my college course in Angela's, we had to complete two weeks in a primary school and it definitely confirmed to me that primary school teaching was not for me. I like that after 40 or 80 minutes in a secondary school, you change class.

My advice is to try gain some experience working in both environments if you can.

happywithlife

tough decisions to make but you're doing the right thing by getting as much info as you can.
i too was undecided between primary and secondary teaching....am now a Home ec teacher
so first off, def' don't choose economics as your second subject - very few jobs in it and less to come as the choice of subjects will be further condensed in years to come. (although double check those prospects with your guidance teacher and maybe with St Angela's if you can)
religion is something that is taught in every school so would make more sense i think.
currently there are very few full time jobs in it though - although it does depend on what you're willing to do after you graduate. for example a lot of my classmates are full time in their schools, many permanent but they are all based in and around dublin. i met my now husband whilst in college so settled with him afterwards and as we're based 'down the country' it has been harder to get any kind of permanent work. having said that though there is loads of short term contracts like maternity leave etc. i happen to know that last year all of the graduates managed to get some kind of work, even if it was only subbing. you can be lucky too though and just fall into a school ...
don't know what the primary sector is like now but personally i do now regret not taking up my second round offer in mary I - i would have way more job security now! and my reasons of not really liking the younger years as my excuse for leaning away from it now seem mad - being a mom now, i realise how smart and witty they are at those younger years and how rewarding it must be to start with a class in sept with them not knowing how to write and having concrete proof of their learning by the time they leave in the summer - sometimes i honest to god despair at second level with the lack of progess in some students!
there are pros and cons in each sector - so continue to ask the right questions, talk to your guidance teacher, home ec teacher and so on and if you have never had work experience try to fit some in - doesn't matter when - maybe a couple of days over feb midterm if your pre's have finished and there is a local primary school with a shorter midterm than you.
and listen to the best advice re the cao form which is, in the end, put down as number 1 your preferred choice - as in don't put down the highest pointed course first. i had all primary down as mine, and yes i would like the job security etc now but then again, i just plain old love teaching full stop and i do love the variety in home ec and i have a firm belief that things work out the way they do for a reason
hope i haven't rambled too much! best of luck with your decision! (and the exams obviously)

byhookorbycrook

Job security in primary is almost a thing of the past. Newly qualified teachrs stuggle even to get subbing in the short term and with the cuts in language support teachers, DEIS schools, learning support/resource and the modern European language initiative thousands of expereinced teachers will be on panels, all of which have to clear before a NQT will get a sniff of even temporary work.

rainbowtrout

leanneee wrote: »

I am in leaving cert now and i soon have to fill out the cao form...except i have no idea what to put down as my first chioce Its will be something probably in teaching because thats what i really want to do...but what do i choose? It will be either Primary school teaching Or Home ec teaching with either religion or economics! I both love them so i cant choose!
So this is where i need the help...my decision will come down to a few things which i need your help on...

-Job prospects for both
-which one do you think would be most enjoyable and if you have any experience in either of them which you could tell me about (especially home ec teaching!)
- Salary on both of them (ive looked up the pay scale but then people are talking about extras and higher qualifications and i have no idea what they all mean)

So if you have got any sort of advice no matter big or small it would be greatly appreciated!

Leaving job prospects and salary aside for the moment, ask yourself a few questions:


Do you think you would enjoy teaching any age group or a range of age groups (in smaller primary schools) between 4 and 12? There's a huge difference between the lower and upper end of that age range. Are you interested in teaching Irish/English/Maths/History/Geography/Science/Music/Art/PE/Religion/Prep for Communion, Confirmation and any thing else that a primary school teacher does? I'm a secondary teacher myself so I can't comment much on primary school but remembering what it was like do you like working with young children? Do you want to teach the basics of reading and writing, can you deal with the problems of small children such as 'I have no lunch, I've wet myself, I feel sick and want to throw up'

Or do you want to deal with 12-17/18 year olds, who are generally more mature and capable of looking after themselves, but you have the added responsibility of preparing then for exams, there are probably more disciplinary issues at second level as students are older and more assertive, you will specialise in two subjects etc etc.

From my experience people who teach fall into one or other category. You couldn't pay me enough money to teach primary school children, and I know plenty of primary teachers who feel the exact same about secondary school teaching.

leanneee

Thanks for all the advice! its been such a help. i think i will probably go with home ec teaching, it just seems more for me!

I did 2 weeks work experience in a primary school when i was in ty and as much as i loved it and adored the kids, the bad part was you had to be so careful with what you said to the kids so the would not get upset, especially when they had little problems that you could not solve like not having time to go looking for their pencil when you had 25 other children in the class to get to...this used to happen all throughout the day when i was there...the small little problems that they made a big fuss about! I dont think i would be able to do this everyday until i retire!

Thats why i think secondary school teaching is more for me, they can look after themselves and you wont have these little problems like lost pencils! Its definately more me!

So hopefully ive made my decision if anybody has got any more advice please let me know, thanks

Powerhouse

I am surprised that only one of the replies refers to discipline and even at that mitigates it with "there are probably more disciplinary issues" at second-level.

To me that is the main difference. In fact I would imagine there are incomparably more disciplinary issues at second-level. However, with a subject like Home Ec in which they will be "doing" something much of the time it might not be too bad.

But dealing with teenage mouthiness, strops and paranoia, and potentially occasional violence and abuse is not necessarily that much better than looking for a kid's pencil.

Somebody mentioned perhaps greater competition for second-level jobs because you would be going into as a subject specialist thereby reducing your options as opposed to Primary where there is a generic qualification and you can apply for any job. The other side of this coin is that all Primary teachers can potentially apply for any job for the very reason that it's a generic qualification so that must surely negate any perceived advantage in the Primary sector.

rainbowtrout

Powerhouse wrote: »

I am surprised that only one of the replies refers to discipline and even at that mitigates it with "there are probably more disciplinary issues" at second-level.

To me that is the main difference. In fact I would imagine there are incomparably more disciplinary issues at second-level. However, with a subject like Home Ec in which they will be "doing" something much of the time it might not be too bad.

But dealing with teenage mouthiness, strops and paranoia, and potentially occasional violence and abuse is not necessarily that much better than looking for a kid's pencil.

Somebody mentioned perhaps greater competition for second-level jobs because you would be going into as a subject specialist thereby reducing your options as opposed to Primary where there is a generic qualification and you can apply for any job. The other side of this coin is that all Primary teachers can potentially apply for any job for the very reason that it's a generic qualification so that must surely negate any perceived advantage in the Primary sector.

Well I'd agree, I just didn't want to comment on discipline at primary level because I don't teach in a primary school so I can't really comment. You are right with discipline being one of the main issues and while the OP should be aware of that I didn't want to be all negative about either primary or secondary level.

byhookorbycrook

I think the OP is leaning towards Home Ec.

"much as i loved it and adored the kids, the bad part was you had to be so careful with what you said to the kids so the would not get upset, especially when they had little problems that you could not solve like not having time to go looking for their pencil when you had 25 other children in the class to get to...this used to happen all throughout the day when i was there...the small little problems that they made a big fuss about! "

Lots of these issues all day every day with 30 smallies means you either like it or don't.
Best of luck to the OP, hope it goes well for you.

timewilltell

leanneee wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice! its been such a help. i think i will probably go with home ec teaching, it just seems more for me!

I did 2 weeks work experience in a primary school when i was in ty and as much as i loved it and adored the kids, the bad part was you had to be so careful with what you said to the kids so the would not get upset, especially when they had little problems that you could not solve like not having time to go looking for their pencil when you had 25 other children in the class to get to...this used to happen all throughout the day when i was there...the small little problems that they made a big fuss about! I dont think i would be able to do this everyday until i retire!

Thats why i think secondary school teaching is more for me, they can look after themselves and you wont have these little problems like lost pencils! Its definately more me!

So hopefully ive made my decision if anybody has got any more advice please let me know, thanks

Can I just say, I was the exact same before I started my Primary Teaching course. I had never had a lot of interaction with small children save for the odd cousin, and was terrified at the prospect of being let loose on a class.

However I am now in my final year and feeling a lot more confident, as the course sets you up for it. During TP you learn loads too! Also, I would never have been a small children kinda person, but I suppose I;ve been luck on TP that I've mainly had 2nd class up!

But all I can say is follow your heart! I personally LOVED home ec in Secondary school!

On the topic of jobs, I have accepted that I more than likely will not get a job next year, be it temporary or whatever, but I love what I do, and sure at the end of the day that's all that matters!!

Good luck with it

byhookorbycrook

In primary you don't get to decide that you only want to teach the senior end, it's at the principal's discretion, so if you are not happy at the idea of 30+ infants "leaking at both ends" as a friend described his junior infant class up until Christmas,then primary teaching is not for you.

timewilltell

Primary Teaching is very much for me - I meant the 2nd class up and bit in regards to teaching practice.

Since I am taking an elective in Early Ed I feel very much equipped to deal with the Junior end.

byhookorbycrook

Not being smart, but nothing prepares you for Sept 1st and a full class of junior infants and parents bawling their eyes out!!

timewilltell

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Not being smart, but nothing prepares you for Sept 1st and a full class of junior infants and parents bawling their eyes out!!

Ah I know that, but I feel a lot more confident about dealing with Junior Infants and their needs than I would have last year!

byhookorbycrook

My first ever class had 42 ,yes, 42 junior infants, in the late eighties. I don't think I have ever really recovered:D

timewilltell

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

My first ever class had 42 ,yes, 42 junior infants, in the late eighties. I don't think I have ever really recovered:D

:eek:
I think I would have disintegrated the first day!

dambarude

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

My first ever class had 42 ,yes, 42 junior infants, in the late eighties. I don't think I have ever really recovered:D

And it seems we're heading back towards those levels again!

byhookorbycrook

I don't think I taught them much, just kept them contained.:rolleyes:

dambarude

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I don't think I taught them much, just kept them contained.:rolleyes:

And dry:D

rainbowtrout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

My first ever class had 42 ,yes, 42 junior infants, in the late eighties. I don't think I have ever really recovered:D

I was in a class like that 43 junior infants starting in my class in 1983. The other two junior infant classes were similar.