Investigation continues into US plane targeted at Shannon

golfball37

opinionated3 wrote: »

Please do not compare us army troops to nazis.....an insult of the highest order. As for rendition (of which there is no proof linking shannon) did it ever occur to you that this is a different type of war.....its not bastogne or monte cassino..its against cowards who strike and hide and deny women their basic rights( taliban). I choose to believe that if us troops are using our airport on their way to kill those who otherwise call us infidels well then I am happy....

I probably agree with you on the war etc but to say there's been no proof of rendition at Shannon is just misleading.

A cleaner from Noonans swore an affadavit saying she saw a man chained inside one of the planes. It was very embarrassing for the govt.

LadyTBolt

golfball37 wrote: »

A cleaner from Noonans swore an affadavit saying she saw a man chained inside one of the planes.

Can you back this statement up with proof?

I find it difficult to believe the US government operating rendition flights would allow a civilian on board an aircraft with a prisoner on board.

CptSternn

The only evidence you need is the US court documents.

They have admitted they had rendition flights, this is not disputed.

The planes used are now widely known, this is not disputed.

Thanks to the court case over how much a private defence contractor should be paid, the routes they used are no longer secret, nor are they disputed.

How anyone can still say there is no proof is beyond me.

opinionated3

Unjust war? That depends on your point of view. I think the sizeable amount of Irish people are happy to see the removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan as they were the removal of Saddam. You also brought up the point of the Irish people respecting their own law and military ahead of other nations....that is fine but bear in mind it is the same military that has to guard our airport against these vandals wasting mine and other Irish taxpayers money. I think this simply boils down to blatant anti Americanism....why don't you protest against Islamic fundamentalism....or is that too touchy a subject? Way easier to castigate the whole American nation rather than risk a fatwah from some lunatic in Yemen.....

LadyTBolt

CptSternn wrote: »

The only evidence you need is the US court documents.

They have admitted they had rendition flights, this is not disputed.

The planes used are now widely known, this is not disputed.

Thanks to the court case over how much a private defence contractor should be paid, the routes they used are no longer secret, nor are they disputed.

How anyone can still say there is no proof is beyond me.

Would you mind sending me on the links or where I can find the literature on this, I would be very interested to learn about this

Carazy

golfball37 wrote: »

A cleaner from Noonans swore an affadavit saying she saw a man chained inside one of the planes. It was very embarrassing for the govt.

Proof??? Reports/Interviews etc. on this statement golfball37 please as I for one don't believe it for one second.

CptSternn

LadyTBolt wrote: »

Would you mind sending me on the links or where I can find the literature on this, I would be very interested to learn about this

Check the links I posted in this very thread the page previous to this one.

juan.kerr

These bloody hippies should be shot.

CptSternn

opinionated3 wrote: »

Unjust war? That depends on your point of view. I think the sizeable amount of Irish people are happy to see the removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan as they were the removal of Saddam. You also brought up the point of the Irish people respecting their own law and military ahead of other nations....that is fine but bear in mind it is the same military that has to guard our airport against these vandals wasting mine and other Irish taxpayers money. I think this simply boils down to blatant anti Americanism....why don't you protest against Islamic fundamentalism....or is that too touchy a subject? Way easier to castigate the whole American nation rather than risk a fatwah from some lunatic in Yemen.....

Unjust as ruled by the UN and the Pope. So if you are looking for a worldwide consensus, you have it. If you are looking for a religious authority to say it, again you have it. Depends on who you take your cues from, but also the Irish government as they denounced the war as we talked about earlier and technically we are supposed to be neutral as we as a country do not support the war.

Americans don't 'guard' our airports or any other part of our nation. We have our own police force and standing army. To try and say we 'need' Americans to protect us is ludicrous, and an insult to our country. I have friends currently stationed in Africa that are part of our Army. They do a damn good job and I would say before you go online saying such things, maybe find one of our own fine lads and tell them your thoughts on this, as I am sure they would be happy to give you their opinion on the subject.

Your strawman argument regarding anti-Americanism is laughable and a poor attempt to deride the discussion at hand. You can be against the war in Iraq and still like Americans, they are not mutually exclusive positions. That's the same poor and tired argument people who claim anyone who supports the Palestinians is somehow anti-Semitic.

Per your question about Islamic fundamentalists, guess what? They don't bother us here in Ireland as we don't bother them. And again, another argumental fallacy in an attempt to change the topic. One thing you should know is our government recognises Hezbollah. Our government recognises Hamas. Our government supports these groups, sends funding, and even has representatives in our country for state sponsored events. America calls them 'terrorists', we call them foreign dignitaries. They have never bothered us in any way shape or form and we have been getting along fine for years. Do you really think those groups or any other 'radical' groups are just going to attack for no reason? America gives them a reason by invading other countries, countries where these people live. They also support Israel and send billions a year in weapons to be used against Palestinians. Our government condemns those actions and if you remember just two years ago our government DID stop the US from sending weapons to Lebanon as even our most conservative leaders in the Dail still took the side of the oppressed. Are you not aware of your own nations history? It wasn't too long ago we ourselves were under occupation and the very groups above helped us, your relatives, fight for independence. A Fatwa will never be issued against us here as long as we continue to have diplomatic relations with the same groups.

Here is a fun little factoid for you that will blow your mind - I lived in America for many years, have duel citizenship, and *GASP* was IN the US military, the Navy to be precise. So if anyone has the right to say things about the US military, it's me.

Balagan

Oh, please get a grip. You seem to think you are writing here to a bunch of people who don't listen to the news with their own ears or read with their own eyes and whose mindset is somewhere back in the 1950s.

The UN is entirely impotent. Don't tell me what it says. Are you with those who sit and listen in the General Assembly when Ahmadinejad is given a platform for his lies? I am firmly with those who walk out.

The Pope's opinion? Are you joking? Tell that to those who, as children, were had at by priests who were, in turn, sheltered by other priests and bishops and popes. Tell that to their families and children and grandchildren who bear the scars of the dysfunction and pain which the abuse caused and who had their faith shredded. Tell them about the moral foundation on which the Pope's opinion on anything stands.

Our government recognizes Hamas You are right. Hamas is enslaving the Palestinians, condemning them to a life of poverty. Damn right our government recognizes them. Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. No fear our government would tell the Palestinians not be having truck with that violent pack who are holding them back and instead be brave and vote, at whatever cost, for those who would help them find a way through to peace and some prosperity. In addition, Hamas curtails the education of girls, assaults gays, throws those who oppose it off high buildings, burns Christian libraries. What exactly does our government respect about Hamas?

Hezbollah is funded by Iran. No doubt you think Iran is a brave country, defending its people and standing up to Israel/America. What do you care about how it abuses its people and threatens world stability? But no doubt you think the greatest threat to world stability is Israel, right?

What do you care about the torture in Syria? Who will do anything for the thousands killed and tortured there? The UN? Not on your life. And America is now too broke to do anything there, so you need not worry about that.

You seem to think that Ireland's recognition of Hamas and Hezbollah is something to be proud of and that it helps us avoid attack. I certainly don't want Ireland attacked but if the price it has to pay for protection is to lay down (diplomatic relations as you put it) with wolves like Hamas and Hezbollah, then I am certainly not proud.

The twin towers had barely hit the ground before Ireland started to grow such a storm of hatred for America. We almost match the Islamic fundamentalists in hatred for America (not American money mind you) but, thankfully, we just talk.

And, as for us not needing American protection and help and us having our own army. Give me strength. It wouldn't take an Islamic fundamentalist threat of an attack, or heaven forbid, an actual attack, to have us grind to a halt. All that's needed would be a good week of snow and ice and this country is at a complete standstill.

Ah no, anything happens here and its the Americans who will be helping us out, along with our former 'occupiers', the British. And I would be happy to accept their helping hand if that happens. In the meantime, I hope the British keep nice to us and bail us out a bit more and that the Americans keep their extraordinary rendition flights out of here but send us a whole heap of multinational companies so that we can have a bit of money and keep our kids in the country and dandle our grandkiddies, when they arrive, on our knees.

Clareman

This thread has gone past being a debate relating to Shannon airport, or county Clare, or the Mid-West region, please feel free to start another thread on other areas if you want to debate the merits/validity of the US activity around the world.

As always, if you think i am being harsh in locking the thread feel free to PM me, other mods, CMods, open a thread in feedback/helpdesk.