The Smoking Forum

Mezcita

Just stumbled in here for the first time. Charter of the forum reads:

"3. Not everyone enjoys smoking, and some people think that its disgusting filthy habit these people are not welcomed here. Those with an anti-smoking axe to grind or simply looking for support while you stop smoking please post in the Giving Up Smoking forum, not here. This forum is to discuss the positives of our habit. While we don’t encourage people to start smoking we will discuss the positives of smoking."

Is this the only forum on boards.ie where free speech is not encouraged? To me it's a bit like if only Man United fans were allowed post over on the Soccer forum. Or no anti Cathlolic Church comments allowed over on the Christianity forum?

I basically can't think of any other forum on here where discussion is not encouraged.

Elmidena

Free speech is never encouraged on Boards

But no, it's more like Man Utd had their own thread in Soccer, as would Liverpool etc etc. It's particularly for smokers who enjoy it, not to be told all the horrible things wrong with their choice and tuts--any smoker worth their salt has heard this at least on one smoking break, and if not I'm jealous!

Discussion IS encouraged, but only positives. Anything else would be considered a "positive" for the Giving Up Smoking forum and would be of interest to THOSE posters, not trolling to THESE posters

Sarky

It's more like people who think soccer is a stupid sport full of egomaniacal primadonnas and archaic tribalistic wankery posting all over the socer forum.

Mezcita

Elmidena wrote: »

Free speech is never encouraged on Boards

But no, it's more like Man Utd had their own thread in Soccer, as would Liverpool etc etc. It's particularly for smokers who enjoy it, not to be told all the horrible things wrong with their choice and tuts--any smoker worth their salt has heard this at least on one smoking break, and if not I'm jealous!

Discussion IS encouraged, but only positives. Anything else would be considered a "positive" for the Giving Up Smoking forum and would be of interest to THOSE posters, not trolling to THESE posters

So to use the same analogy, there is a Man United thread over on the soccer forum where fans of the club obviously post about various goings on. The difference is that people do wander in to comment negatively on games/ players etc. There therefore is interaction between different fans.

Strikes me that a forum where only "positive" discussion relating to a hobby is allowed is a bit of club instead of a forum. Sure the "elephant in the room" regarding this particular hobby is more life threatening than most. But if you're into it and enjoy it, why not try and defend it?

I'm saying this as someone who smoked for ten years before anyone accuses me of being a killjoy.

Steve

It a bit like trying to start a serious discussion on underage sex in after hours; or start a 'all cyclists are freaks' thread in the Cycling forum; or start a 'bah humbug' thread in the Christmas forum.. there are lots of examples, none are going to end well.

There are plenty of forums here that exist with (in some people's opinion) controversial rules. If you don't like them, you don't have to read them or post there.

_blank_

Because smokers are entitled to a place to discuss their habit/pastime in peace without do-gooders telling them what they already know.

It's on every packet, and there are enough cretins who think they are high-and-mighty, or worse, funny, that comment on them every. single. day.

Why do you WANT to read the forum, never mind post in the damn place, if you don't like smoking, smokers and the effects of smoking. GTFO tbh, post in the Giving Up Smoking forum, they'd only to love hear from you, I'm sure.

Eoin

The hunting forum is similar as is the Christmas forum, and I'm sure if you look around there are other forums where if you disagree with the premise of the forum, then it's just not for you.

Mezcita wrote: »

Strikes me that a forum where only "positive" discussion relating to a hobby is allowed is a bit of club instead of a forum.

But is that such a bad thing? I don't think there's anything wrong with having forums that are more community than debate focussed - especially as there's bound to be other forums where you can discuss their negatives if needs be.

ShooterSF

Why would any forum set up to discuss an interest/hobby welcome criticism of said interest. I like to frequent the toys and boardgame section (even if it is a bit of a ghost town) and wouldn't appreciate thread upon thread of people calling it childish. I like to lurk in the arcade and retro forum but wouldn't bother if it was full of threads arguing that old games are silly and the graphics are crap blah blah.. I'd imagine smokers feel the same.

Mezcita

Steve wrote: »

It a bit like trying to start a serious discussion on underage sex in after hours; or start a 'all cyclists are freaks' thread in the Cycling forum; or start a 'bah humbug' thread in the Christmas forum.. there are lots of examples, none are going to end well.

True but if people go onto those forums deliberately trying to troll, they are banned fairly quickly.

Steve wrote: »

There are plenty of forums here that exist with (in some people's opinion) controversial rules. If you don't like them, you don't have to read them or post there.

Name em. Forums where "disagreeing with pro golf/ knitting/ motors" comments are not allowed.

Des wrote: »

Because smokers are entitled to a place to discuss their habit/pastime in peace without do-gooders telling them what they already know.

It's on every packet, and there are enough cretins who think they are high-and-mighty, or worse, funny, that comment on them every. single. day.

Why do you WANT to read the forum, never mind post in the damn place, if you don't like smoking, smokers and the effects of smoking. GTFO tbh, post in the Giving Up Smoking forum, they'd only to love hear from you, I'm sure.

See Des, you're missing the point. Charming response though so cheers for that. GTFO to you too and all that stuff.

I'm asking a simple question and am getting the standard "GTFO you anti smoking cretin" answer. I never said I had anything against smoking, smokers or the effects of smoking do me a favour and read my posts before you give me the standard agro bullsh.it response.

I want to read the forum because I used to smoke. What difference does it make? I'm not religious but occasionally look at the Christianity forum. Big deal. I don't have a dog but looked at the Pets forum once. Shoot me.

Just find it a bit odd that a forum such as the Smoking Forum (as in a place where people discuss their views on things) does not essentially allow discussion.

minidazzler

Mezcita wrote: »

True but if people go onto those forums deliberately trying to troll, they are banned fairly quickly.



Name em. Forums where "disagreeing with pro golf/ knitting/ motors" comments are not allowed.

See Des, you're missing the point. Charming response though so cheers for that. GTFO to you too and all that stuff.

I'm asking a simple question and am getting the standard "GTFO you anti smoking cretin" answer. I never said I had anything against smoking, smokers or the effects of smoking do me a favour and read my posts before you give me the standard agro bullsh.it response.

I want to read the forum because I used to smoke. What difference does it make? I'm not religious but occasionally look at the Christianity forum. Big deal. I don't have a dog but looked at the Pets forum once. Shoot me.

Just find it a bit odd that a forum such as the Smoking Forum (as in a place where people discuss their views on things) does not essentially allow discussion.

The Smoking forum isn't for discussing view points, it's for discussing an activity. Which basically means people going in and giving their viewpoint on it isn't welcome given so many people don't like smoking (myself included). Why give these people a platform in a forum where people are going to talk about how they enjoy something?

It's a bit like a person who is anti-drink went into the Beer Wine and Spirits forum to try to stop people drinking, 1) It's Pointless and 2) it's for their own satisfaction not for the benefit of anyone else.

I'm sure you would be allowed read the forum if you wished to gain access, but don't expect to be allowed go in and tell them they're killing themselves.

Steve

Mezcita wrote: »

True but if people go onto those forums deliberately trying to troll, they are banned fairly quickly.

I think you proved your own point there, if you disregard the forum rules and deliberately post a thread that goes against the grain then it's not going to be welcomed.

Name em. Forums where "disagreeing with pro golf/ knitting/ motors" comments are not allowed.

I named a few already for you, so did others.

My name is URL

Mezcita wrote: »

Sure the "elephant in the room" regarding this particular hobby is more life threatening than most. But if you're into it and enjoy it, why not try and defend it?

Current setup seems to be doing a fine job of just that

Nobody likes an echo chamber, but a plethora of other forums exist where the dangers and downsides of smoking can be discussed. The smoking forum is only one of over 1,000 forums.. so it's not that hard to avoid if you dislike the rules or the subject matter.

Mezcita

Appreciate the sensible comments above and just to clarify that I'm not questioning the rules of the forum from an anti-smoking point of view. As I mentioned earlier, I smoked for ten years and can understand why the forum is there in the first place. Wasn't aware about the rules on the "Hunting" and "Christmas" forums so that's fair enough.

Soccer forum works well as people have to agree to the forum's rules before they are allowed post. Means that there are less "LIVERPOOL R SHT" comments but still a decent amount of discussion.

Anyway, each to their own and all that.

Krieg

Mezcita wrote:

But if you're into it and enjoy it, why not try and defend it?

That's a good point, Boards is a discussion board and surely allowing anti-smoking threads would spur great discussion, in theory.

However it just doesn't work that way. I might be frowned upon for saying it but the reality is us smokers have no good defence against smoking ; we smoke because we enjoy it, please leave us be. Any thread on boards Ive seen smoking related (outside of the smoking forum) quickly attracts anti/non smokers that would be a tad over-zealous calling all smokers idiots, morons etc. Im sure Im not the only one who will stop reading a thread once those posters begin since we know there is no real point defending the habit.
You smoked for 10 years so you must know exactly what Im talking about. Im sure there was a time inside those 10 years where you smoked because you enjoyed it and were probably annoyed by anti-smokers comments.

This reminds of a debate on Vincent Browne show a couple years ago over whether to increase cigarette tax, potentially a great debate since there is good arguments both sides of the fence. Vincent must have thought the debate was too stale for his taste because it didn't take him long to derail the whole debate and go on a "Merchant of death" attack at the John Player rep. I just switched it off after that.

Its much nicer having the forums the way they are, it feels easier to start threads and post opinions to like minded people without risk of having every topic shot into the ground

RoundyMooney

OK.

Let's start with the base principle that there is no "free speech" here. What there is, is free discussion within the bounds of legality, morality, and good manners. All very general terms, because it is a very general rule. "Don't be a dick" basically. It's been like that for years.

So, following on from my last point;

If one entered an AA meeting, roaring and shouting and spilling one's stout-is that being a dick?

If one entered a gathering of hip hop/R n'B folk and started calling them all plagiarising monotonous goons, wiggers, and the like-is that being a dick?

If one entered a room filled with rugby players (brave one, this) and started calling it a garrison game, is that being a dick?

If one entered a smoke filled room of people who enjoyed the pursuit at hand, and were to be seen with cigars cocked at jaunty angles, and enjoying one another company, and if one started handing out pictures of clogged arteries and the likes, is that being a dick?

Yes, to all the above, if you hadn't gathered as much. While there is no free speech (which takes care of the first part of your charter grievance) here, there is free discussion within social norms (and sometimes otherwise!), and there is also the small matter of respect. If you find yourself in a little niche of boards that offends your sensibilities, as I often do, then respect the rules of that sub community, and to paraphrase Des, click the fuck out.

Bottle_of_Smoke

There's plenty of forums where this kind of rule is in place - it just needs to be spelled out very clearly on that forum because anti-smokers often get such a hard-on from telling people about why smoking is sh*t

OldGoat

The forum exists for smokers to have discussions about smoking freed from the tediousness of the 'Big Debate'. The clause in question exists in the smoking forum charter so that the lazy mods of that forum don't have to type out the same explanation over and over and over and over and over and...you get the picture. It's easier to ban people for breaching the charter then it is to try and reason with them.

Forum users are happy, forum mods are happy, forum trolls win shiny new infractions for their records. It's a win, win, win situation. Easy modding is awesome modding.

The Hill Billy

A simple PM to myself or OldGoat could have answered your query in relation to the charter that we uphold in the Smoking forum.

Rather than rehash what has already been said - I've 'thanked' the posts above (& below) that cover the reasons for that statement in the Smoking forum charter.

If you don't like it - then ignore the forum & leave us in peace to discuss our cigarettes, cigars, pipes, etc. All posters there are over 18. We are grown-ups & we know what we are doing & understand the potential implications.

Respect that please.

tbh

plus, you know what's really really tedious? 100,001 users all thinking that they are the first to think of posting what is an extremely obvious argument.

galwegians

need a fag after reading all that,

AckwelFoley

Mezcita wrote: »

True but if people go onto those forums deliberately trying to troll, they are banned fairly quickly.



Name em. Forums where "disagreeing with pro golf/ knitting/ motors" comments are not allowed.



See Des, you're missing the point. Charming response though so cheers for that. GTFO to you too and all that stuff.

I'm asking a simple question and am getting the standard "GTFO you anti smoking cretin" answer. I never said I had anything against smoking, smokers or the effects of smoking do me a favour and read my posts before you give me the standard agro bullsh.it response.

I want to read the forum because I used to smoke. What difference does it make? I'm not religious but occasionally look at the Christianity forum. Big deal. I don't have a dog but looked at the Pets forum once. Shoot me.

Just find it a bit odd that a forum such as the Smoking Forum (as in a place where people discuss their views on things) does not essentially allow discussion.

The purpose is not to stifle discussion but to avoid disharmoney

You are not entitled to troll and a discussion about the health issues with smoking isnt what smokers want as they are being hit with it the whole time, they hardly want a debate about it there.


There is no such thing as free speech, actually there is, but there are consequences for ill considered opinions

Cardinal Richelieu

The smoking cartoon figure should have said it all to the OP.



P.S why are they all guys? Are boards sexiest too!!!:pac:

minidazzler

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

The smoking cartoon figure should have said it all to the OP.



P.S why are they all guys? Are boards sexiest too!!!:pac:

It's the internet, the men are men, the women are men and the kids are FBI men.

Steve

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

P.S why are they all guys? Are boards sexiest too!!!:pac:

They represent the original founders of boards which, back then, before they brought in gender quota legislation for starting websites, oddly enough, were all blokes.

the_syco

galwegians wrote: »

need a fag after reading all that,

Cup or tea and rollie time.

OP: there is no free speech on boards.ie If they want, a super mod could ban you, keep a history of your IP range, and ban you again when you set up another account from your PC. Super mods are highly intelligent creatures who you should not piss off.

Gary ITR

Steve wrote: »

They represent the original founders of boards

I never knew that. Who's who?

OldGoat

Larry, Curley, Moe, Doc and Sneez.ie

Gordon

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

The smoking cartoon figure should have said it all to the OP.



P.S why are they all guys? Are boards sexiest too!!!:pac:

Actually, feedback and ad sales are females.

Don't believe me? Why not? Because they don't have skirts and long hair? Tut tut, sexiest sexist.

Steve

Gary ITR wrote: »

I never knew that. Who's who?

Dunno which is which but the original 5 immortals were/are John Breslin (Cloud); Jerry Connolly (ecksor); Dan King (Regi); Tom Murphy (DeVore); Gerry Shanahan (Vexorg).

http://www.boards.ie/team.php

Morlar

I am a non smoker for 6 months now and I totally understand their preference to have a forum free from all that guff. They are adults, making adult decisions - let them be imo.

Spunj

I maybe missed the boat on this. I am a smoker, my mother is a smoker, my dad is not.

He had a double bypass. She soldiers on, coughing and spluttering.

Men are more likely to suffer heart problems, but if you add in the amount of children/young people who die unexpectedly every year, you would have to ban eating and breathing.

We all are exposed to danger every day we live. Maybe smoking will kill me sooner or later, but putting it forward as a shortening of life is like saying something like 1% of parachutists or cliff divers die.

I await the bus that mows me down, if it misses me, whatever; we all die from something. Let people who understand the risks do what they like.