Proposed development of St Patricks Church

jad2007

Just passed St.Patricks Church on Patrick Street (besides barracks) and there is a planning permission notice on the gate. Apparently Waterford CC are turning the church into a community centre. The alterations consist of a extension to the porch and the addition of a two storey extension to the side of the building not to mention "alteration of windows". The project is the brainchild of our last mayor. I thought I would never say it but I sincerely hope that this project does not go ahead. My problem is that there is plenty of empty units that could be made into a community centre rather than drastically altering the character of a heritage building that backs onto 17th century walls of the old Citadel. Waterford is trying to market itself as a heritage destination and at the same time planning on ruining a heritage site. I would also like to know who St.patricks Gateway centre are and why they are being gifted this site when other groups who have been in the city for years are crying out for accommodation. I hope that my opinion on this development are wrong but it doesn’t look like it.

dayshah

jad2007 wrote: »

My problem is that there is plenty of empty units that could be made into a community centre

There is plenty of space on O'Connell St to put in something. I suppose its not viable as a Catholic church, being so close to the Cathedral. I used to like that church

Maybe it could be used as a different type of church. I'm thinking of establishing my own religion (I practically worship myself already, and would appreciate it if other would do the same).

marlin vs

jad2007 wrote: »

Just passed St.Patricks Church on Patrick Street (besides barracks) and there is a planning permission notice on the gate. Apparently Waterford CC are turning the church into a community centre. The alterations consist of a extension to the porch and the addition of a two storey extension to the side of the building not to mention "alteration of windows". The project is the brainchild of our last mayor. I thought I would never say it but I sincerely hope that this project does not go ahead. My problem is that there is plenty of empty units that could be made into a community centre rather than drastically altering the character of a heritage building that backs onto 17th century walls of the old Citadel. Waterford is trying to market itself as a heritage destination and at the same time planning on ruining a heritage site. I would also like to know who St.patricks Gateway centre are and why they are being gifted this site when other groups who have been in the city for years are crying out for accommodation. I hope that my opinion on this development are wrong but it doesn’t look like it.

Stop shouting!

gscully

Shouting? There's no block capitals. All it needs is some paragraphs and it's perfect. :rolleyes:

decies

Lol at last two posts . For nearly 20 years used to go to Christmas eve mass there and for last few years the priest would let his mobile phone ring , saying Santa was on his way !!

jad2007

Wasn’t shouting just had a different font as was posting from my phone. Apologies if i offended the grammar police. Thanks Gscully btw. Amazes me people are more concerned with the font than the subject of the post.

marlin vs

You'r still shouting.

marlin vs

Shssssss!:D

jad2007

No as i said it is just showing a different font IF I WAS SHOUTING IT WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS. I am not however. Anyway unless people post about the topic im not going to reply again.

looksee

It hasn't been gifted to anyone - quote from Munster Express a month ago:

St Patrick’s United Church, on Patrick’s Street in the city centre, is to be reborn as a centre serving the needs of the inner and wider city voluntary and community groups.

It is envisaged that the centre be used for meetings, social events, training and other such community events. The proposed new centre is to work under the name St Patrick’s Gateway Centre and will be established as a public limited charitable company, overseen by trustees representing the various partners in the project, The Methodist Church in Ireland (the current owners), Waterford Area Partnership, St Brigid’s Community Centre and others, including the present Mayor, Councillor Mary Roche.

dayshah

Ah, I feel silly now, I should have read the OP more carefully (but I was distracted by the font ).

I thought it was the Catholic church near Argos.

jad2007

Luckily Im at home now so my font crisis is at an end. I cant believe what they are planning to do to this building. Its listed as a national monument ffs. They are talking about removing the floor and widening the windows how can they widen the windows without damaging the plaster work on the inside.

The existing porch contains a burial vault and parts of the church date to the 1400,s

how are they going to add two extensions to a national monument.

BlaasForRafa

dayshah wrote: »

Ah, I feel silly now, I should have read the OP more carefully (but I was distracted by the font ).

I thought it was the Catholic church near Argos.

I thought that place was a methodist or presbyterian chapel or something, I didn't even realise it was unused.

Is it open to the public? I've never actually been in there.

looksee

It was a methodist chapel, then it became Unitarian (or some sort of combination of various chapels), I thought it was still that.

jad2007

Still operational as a church. The proposal seems to be to turn it into some sort of community centre. The planning permission seems to be missing from the WCC site. Its open every sunday for mass and the graveyard is well worth a visit. The old entrance's into the fort/citadel can still be seen in the wall (date from 17th century).

What really gets me about this is that their are heaps of empty industrial units around without ruining a national monument.

Leopardi

jad2007 wrote: »

Still operational as a church. The proposal seems to be to turn it into some sort of community centre. The planning permission seems to be missing from the WCC site. Its open every sunday for mass and the graveyard is well worth a visit. The old entrance's into the fort/citadel can still be seen in the wall (date from 17th century).

What really gets me about this is that their are heaps of empty industrial units around without ruining a national monument.

I was a member of St. Patrick's for a number of years and regularly attended services there. As a relatively early example of a post-Reformation church its significance is unquestionable. I would advise people to visit the building before the developments commence, as it seems the internal changes may be quite drastic. It saddens me to think of the impending alterations to the place.

billythepig

jad2007 wrote: »

Just passed St.Patricks Church on Patrick Street (besides barracks) and there is a planning permission notice on the gate. Apparently Waterford CC are turning the church into a community centre. The alterations consist of a extension to the porch and the addition of a two storey extension to the side of the building not to mention "alteration of windows". The project is the brainchild of our last mayor. I thought I would never say it but I sincerely hope that this project does not go ahead. My problem is that there is plenty of empty units that could be made into a community centre rather than drastically altering the character of a heritage building that backs onto 17th century walls of the old Citadel. Waterford is trying to market itself as a heritage destination and at the same time planning on ruining a heritage site. I would also like to know who St.patricks Gateway centre are and why they are being gifted this site when other groups who have been in the city for years are crying out for accommodation. I hope that my opinion on this development are wrong but it doesn’t look like it.

its about time they done something with it,
and while there at it they should go down and knock down reginalds tower and that ugly looking castle on the top of castle st

Finnbar01

There's some more information about the Church on their facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/St-Patricks-United-Church/197073156977666?sk=info#!/pages/St-Patricks-United-Church/197073156977666?sk=info

BBM77

jad2007 wrote: »

Still operational as a church...Its open every sunday for mass and the graveyard is well worth a visit...

This is the first thing I thought of when I read this. I pass there regularly on Sunday mornings and I see it is being used.

I could think of a number of other buildings around Ballybricken that could be used as a community centre. Putting it there is bordering on the ridiculous.

This is the planning application, some people were looking for it.

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=11185&LASiteID=0

jad2007

This matter is going to be discussed on WLR monday morning. Should be interesting.

Sully

Lots of annoyed posters on the Councils Facebook page, people really unhappy but the council saying these plans were first reported in local press back in 2010.

jad2007

Yeah Sully. But when it was reported it mentioned a change of use to a community centre. Never mentioned the alterations.

If you add a extension you have to knock a wall in the church so you can enter the extension.

If you "alter the windows" you have to destroy the plaster work on the inside of the buildings.

Put it in perspective, if someone wanted to add a extension onto Reginalds Tower by knocking out a few walls there would be uproar.

They are both national monuments, Only difference is one is a out of the way church,

The city council has plenty empty buildings that they could use for a community centre without messing with 2 national monuments ( the graveyard is also one).

Sully your a FG man, any chance you would ask John Cummins for his opinion on this.

This is a case that in twenty years time people will look back at this and wonder how it was allowed happen.

My last point is this An Táisce and An Bord Pleanála will be all over this with the result that WCC will end up wasting a load of money over a ill conceived, vain project.

mark17

Cllr. Mary Roche is a director of the company set up to get the grants available for this vandalism. It's a "part 8" planning, so the council will have to vote it through. How the hell can a director of this company have a vote on the planning at council level, this whole project stinks and as mentioned previous there are plenty of vacant buildings in the area for a community centre. I would love to know is Cllr. Roche paid as a director or claiming expenses for her role here.

Partizan

This is one of those times that you need Brendan McCann. St. Patrick's Church is a listed building and nothing should be done that would alter its appearance or compromise the structure. I was in it years ago and its a fine example of medieval and later 18th century architecture. Its madness what has been prosposed.

next

from the council's facebook page
We have been asked by the architects proposing the changes to St.Patrick's Church, Patrick Street to publicise that there will be an open evening on Friday next, 13th January from 6-8pm at St.Patricks Church and the proposals will be on display. All are welcome.

Black Suir

dayshah wrote: »

There is plenty of space on O'Connell St to put in something. I suppose its not viable as a Catholic church, being so close to the Cathedral. I used to like that church

Maybe it could be used as a different type of church. I'm thinking of establishing my own religion (I practically worship myself already, and would appreciate it if other would do the same).

Its not a Catholic Church. ISnt the St Patrick's Catholic Church down the street from John Roberts Square down to Shaws, on the left hand side of the street. Was never in it but heard it is nice, one of the oldest in the Diocese. Is it only used for mass now by the Polish COmmunity. Mass in English someone told me is no longer celebrated there due to a lack of priests in the parish compared to what it had a few years back.

Black Suir

jad2007 wrote: »

Still operational as a church. The proposal seems to be to turn it into some sort of community centre. The planning permission seems to be missing from the WCC site. Its open every sunday for mass and the graveyard is well worth a visit. The old entrance's into the fort/citadel can still be seen in the wall (date from 17th century).

What really gets me about this is that their are heaps of empty industrial units around without ruining a national monument.

I heard Dermot Power on the radio today with Billy McCarthy and it does appear there is a lot of history attached to the building which many not know. Hopefully the historians are listened to. Once such historical buildings are changed they cant be changed back.

dayshah

Black Suir wrote: »

Its not a Catholic Church. ISnt the St Patrick's Catholic Church down the street from John Roberts Square down to Shaws, on the left hand side of the street. Was never in it but heard it is nice, one of the oldest in the Diocese. Is it only used for mass now by the Polish COmmunity. Mass in English someone told me is no longer celebrated there due to a lack of priests in the parish compared to what it had a few years back.

I already corrected myself :rolleyes:

The Catholic one is a nice little church. Its handy because the Cathedral is too big for small scale services (like funerals for old people, whereby you'd barely fill two rows in the Cathedral). I'm fairly sure there is still mass in English there.

Anyway I want we keep both