Things will come to those who wait...

jfh

tough luck Pconn, happens to us all once in a while. nothing you can do about it. if it was me, id go out and do another soon, just to do it justice, you've been training well. Do you do many races?

pconn062

jfh wrote: »

tough luck Pconn, happens to us all once in a while. nothing you can do about it. if it was me, id go out and do another soon, just to do it justice, you've been training well. Do you do many races?

Thanks jfh, I haven't done that many races this year, one 5k and a couple of mile and 3k's. Have a good few coming up though over the next few weeks that I can do, need to do something about the mind though as that's where the races are going wrong, it's a mental thing for sure. I'm sure the coach will give me a HTFU talk later on!

RacoonQueen

pconn062 wrote: »

Thanks jfh, I haven't done that many races this year, one 5k and a couple of mile and 3k's. Have a good few coming up though over the next few weeks that I can do, need to do something about the mind though as that's where the races are going wrong, it's a mental thing for sure. I'm sure the coach will give me a HTFU talk later on!

Could write this myself. If you find a cure please let me know what it is.

Didn't race much, or at all given how I tackled what I ran, in 2012 and want to get back on the horse. London is in the way though. 5ks and 10ks are what I want to tackle at the mo. Especially 10ks as I'm really bad at them.

RunningKing

pconn062 wrote: »

Saturday: 6 miles easy

Yesterday: Off

Today SVP 5k race

Another crap race, I took Sunday off as I was away and didn't feel 100%, felt better today so decided to go ahead with the race. I just never settled in, and my chest which had been bothering me meant my breathing was laboured from the start. Struggled until half way till I blew up and shuffled home in 18:50, my slowest 5k in a long time and miles away from the 18:07 I ran a few weeks ago. I was a bit embarrassed going up the finishing line as lots of people knew me as I was crawling at that stage.
Even though I wasn't feeling 100% I don't think it affected me and I'm very disappointed. I'm starting to think maybe I'm not a good race day performer. I seem to do an awful lot of good training but can never produce the real good results on the day and I can definitely be accused of throwing the towel in to early. I basically give up today at 3k which I don't like and I have done it in other races in the past, giving up when the going gets real tough. It wasn't the easiest day for it but my training partner who is at the same level as me had a much better run in the same conditions. Last June I was sure I would broken 18 minutes by now but it keeps eluding me. Going to have to have a think about things and my training and have a chat with my coach to see what is going wrong.

Apologies for long, 1st world problem, self indulgent, whiny rant!

MYTD: 441

Dont know whether to hug you or boot you in the back side?

I'd be interested to hear what your coach thinks or some of the more experienced folks on here.

ThePiedPiper

I'm feeling your pain PConn. Honestly, about three years ago I was in the same boat having messed up about 3 marathons on the trot. I've been feeling for a while like you're getting too emotionally invested in chasing down the invisible time goal of 18 minutes. I used to do it myself, so I know how it can happen. Your training is there, I think you just need to not heap the pressure on yourself in races. When you hit that inevitible tough patch, you're probably thinking "Aw bo!!ocks, not again", whereas you need to just take it by the short and curlies and power through it. I don't know about today, but I am sure that it was in you the last day in Dundalk, you just need to have it in the mind. None of this is anything I haven't said before, or you know it yourself, but worth saying anyway.

Just relax, the times will come. Keep the head up and see you Wednesday.

madon

Sorry it went so crap today for you. However you never said in your race report that for about 3.5km of that course today you are running up hill- a lot of it you might not notice but its a constant drag, along with that the 2k or so that you run up the north road its like running a wind tunnel- even on a day that there is no wind, and today was extremely windy. Also you start on tarmac turn onto Palace street? where it is that concrete road surface than back to tarmac and onto that concrete stuff again on Fair street- the road surface is constantly changing. I don't think many could achieve PBs on that run today.
I was working but got down as far as Fair street o have a look at the start and from the results I can see that a lot of people must have blown at some stage from where they were when they passed me and where they ended up on the results. Its a tough course!

pconn062

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Could write this myself. If you find a cure please let me know what it is.

Didn't race much, or at all given how I tackled what I ran, in 2012 and want to get back on the horse. London is in the way though. 5ks and 10ks are what I want to tackle at the mo. Especially 10ks as I'm really bad at them.

I wish I had a cure myself! You will have a great base for the 5/10k's after the marathon training, you won't have to spend time building a base and can jump straight into the quality work.

RunningKing wrote: »

Dont know whether to hug you or boot you in the back side?

I'd be interested to hear what your coach thinks or some of the more experienced folks on here.

I'd take either at this moment in time! :pac: I can predict what my coach will say "Back in my day....!"

RunForestRun wrote: »

I'm feeling your pain PConn. Honestly, about three years ago I was in the same boat having messed up about 3 marathons on the trot. I've been feeling for a while like you're getting too emotionally invested in chasing down the invisible time goal of 18 minutes. I used to do it myself, so I know how it can happen. Your training is there, I think you just need to not heap the pressure on yourself in races. When you hit that inevitible tough patch, you're probably thinking "Aw bo!!ocks, not again", whereas you need to just take it by the short and curlies and power through it. I don't know about today, but I am sure that it was in you the last day in Dundalk, you just need to have it in the mind. None of this is anything I haven't said before, or you know it yourself, but worth saying anyway.

Just relax, the times will come. Keep the head up and see you Wednesday.

Thanks Aonghus, great post. I know it's such a stupid thing with the 18 minute barrier but I just want it out of the way. You're dead right about the undue pressure though, it's just a mental thing as I've run well over other distances this year, especially the mile. I think I just need a good pacer to drag me around once and then it will be out of the way. Will have a few more cracks over the next few weeks anyway. See you Wednesday.

madon wrote: »

Sorry it went so crap today for you. However you never said in your race report that for about 3.5km of that course today you are running up hill- a lot of it you might not notice but its a constant drag, along with that the 2k or so that you run up the north road its like running a wind tunnel- even on a day that there is no wind, and today was extremely windy. Also you start on tarmac turn onto Palace street? where it is that concrete road surface than back to tarmac and onto that concrete stuff again on Fair street- the road surface is constantly changing. I don't think many could achieve PBs on that run today.
I was working but got down as far as Fair street o have a look at the start and from the results I can see that a lot of people must have blown at some stage from where they were when they passed me and where they ended up on the results. Its a tough course!

Thanks madon, yeah it's a tough course alright, I ran it last year and was just pipped to fourth and I thought it was a great course but today it was much windier and nowhere near as nice. You're right about the wind tunnel thing on the north road though, that was the hardest part of the race by far. Still I don't like using that as an excuse, I'm just having a bit of a moan!

TRR

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Could write this myself. If you find a cure please let me know what it .

a bit of HTFU and SIU hard to say while some people fail to perform in races relative to training. Different for everybody. Could be nerves, too bust keeping an eye on watch, not enough mental toughness etc. best way to get better at racing is to do a nice racing block. Can take a few races to build up racing fitness. Bit like sparring in boxing I guess.

thirstywork2

Most runners go through the same they just don't tell others
Was it the 5k in portlaois you did cause if it was the times where slwo all round in that race.

Running is a funny sport,when you least expect it you will pop out a good race.one good race and your confidence will be back.

dna_leri

PConn,

Do you use a watch or Garmin during races? Any danger that you rely on it to tell you how you are feeling?

If so consider racing without it. Maybe try a few training runs (e.g. tempo) without it first.
Or if you have to, then wear the watch but cover it with a plaster before the race so you can't see the details but still record the splits etc.

If that does not work, try getting someone to pace you round. It might not be that difficult to get someone here to pace you to an 18 min 5K and it might take some of the pressure off you.

You have done a lot of good training, its only a matter of time until you get the reward for it.

NiallG4

dna_leri wrote: »

PConn,

Do you use a watch or Garmin during races? Any danger that you rely on it to tell you how you are feeling?

If so consider racing without it. Maybe try a few training runs (e.g. tempo) without it first.
Or if you have to, then wear the watch but cover it with a plaster before the race so you can't see the details but still record the splits etc.

If that does not work, try getting someone to pace you round. It might not be that difficult to get someone here to pace you to an 18 min 5K and it might take some of the pressure off you.

You have done a lot of good training, its only a matter of time until you get the reward for it.

Totally agree. I used to watch every split in a race and let the watch basically tell me if I went off to fast or slow. I ran the first two BHAA CC's of this year and did not look at the watch once and had better races for it. It is worth a try.

drquirky

NiallG4 wrote: »

Totally agree. I used to watch every split in a race and let the watch basically tell me if I went off to fast or slow. I ran the first two BHAA CC's of this year and did not look at the watch once and had better races for it. It is worth a try.

Hey PConn- Yeah I agree w/ both Dna and NiallG4 on this one- maybe too much data is not helping? Also how many of your race are local or are with various club members and/or people you know? Maybe you would benefit from racing somewhere you know no one as you'd possibly feel less pressure to do well?

Its a toughie alright- i've had plenty of teammates over the years that struggle with this kind of issue... gonna go out on a big limb here but when I was in college, our coach brought in a sports psychologist before big races to get us in the right frame of mind- seemed over the top at the time but feel like it actually might have worked- in the same way alot of us spend money at a pysio this might be a worthwhile investment?

Anyway don't let it get you down- looking through your log, the training is super and the times will come just keep the head up and plug away... good luck!

pconn062

Thanks lads for the input. I actually have been running mostly without the Garmin for the last while as it's been broke. Had a stop watch only with me yesterday and for my last few races. I wouldn't be a big Garmin user most of the time and didn't use it that much when it was working.

@TRR I think you're dead right, lacking a bit of toughness, hopefully a few more races in short succession will help.

@ TW2 no it was a 5k in Drogheda, not great depth in the field, 18.50 got me 10th place!

@DL Thanks DL, I think it's def more of a mental block than a data issue, just lacking some mental toughness when the going gets tough.

@Niall I think Garmin's are banned in most cross country races anyway! Will try and smash it on the PK 5k course!

@ DrQ Yeah most of the races would be local races with club mates of mine, I think a race away from that would help, might sneak away and find a low key one and give it a bash.

Really appreciate the advice lads, I feel like a bit of a bitch moaning but it was just something that was one my mind for a while. Have a good few races coming up soon so will work on the toughness at the end. Will keep training away sure.

NiallG4

"@Niall I think Garmin's are banned in most cross country races anyway! Will try and smash it on the PK 5k course! "

Might see can I get you a sub 18 min pacer. There are a few guys in my club who run around 17.50 ish. Give me a shout before the race and I will put a big X on their back for you

menoscemo

pconn, I have had loads of races like that I had a shi**y 5k on saturday too. At least i had a good half a few weeks before to keep the confidence up!!

I remember last year you had a few bad races too but If I recall correctly you had an absolutely super 10 miler in the park (62:xx??). I remember being pleasantly surprised with that time especially because it was a tough old course.
Anything you could take from that race to help you? How were you feeling before it, what was the taper like etc?

NiallG4

Just looking at results of that 5K. Only one sub 18 min runner? Where were the Drogheda guys? Is it another example of too many races on the one weekend. The amount of local races in the North East in the past month and the next few months is mad. 4 mile in Blackrock this weekend. 5K in Mountpleasant the following week, then you will have the PK5K and Dundalk/Drogheda/Cooley 10K's. Pure mad. There was Carlingford 1/2 marathon 2-3 weeks ago, Dune 1/2 yesterday. It actually looks like the Seatown 5K is going to be cancelled this year. This is a fantastic club run event (Dundealgan AC) on a great course and because it is only getting 100 people (of which about 50 are club runners), it is looking like it is longer feasible. Thats my rant over.

pconn062

menoscemo wrote: »

pconn, I have had loads of races like that I had a shi**y 5k on saturday too. At least i had a good half a few weeks before to keep the confidence up!!

I remember last year you had a few bad races too but If I recall correctly you had an absolutely super 10 miler in the park (62:xx??). I remember being pleasantly surprised with that time especially because it was a tough old course.
Anything you could take from that race to help you? How were you feeling before it, what was the taper like etc?

Cheers meno, I'm probably just over analyzing the whole thing, had a bit of a cold which has got worse today so maybe that was a factor. The good thing about 5k's is you can turn around and do another one the following weekend, unlike a marathon. Can't really remember the 10 mile, think it was just one of those days where everything clicks into place, doesn't happen to much unfortunately!

That was a great 1/2 you ran recently, good to get a good time like that on an accurate course, what happened during your 5k on Saturday?

NiallG4 wrote: »

Just looking at results of that 5K. Only one sub 18 min runner? Where were the Drogheda guys? Is it another example of too many races on the one weekend. The amount of local races in the North East in the past month and the next few months is mad. 4 mile in Blackrock this weekend. 5K in Mountpleasant the following week, then you will have the PK5K and Dundalk/Drogheda/Cooley 10K's. Pure mad. There was Carlingford 1/2 marathon 2-3 weeks ago, Dune 1/2 yesterday. It actually looks like the Seatown 5K is going to be cancelled this year. This is a fantastic club run event (Dundealgan AC) on a great course and because it is only getting 100 people (of which about 50 are club runners), it is looking like it is longer feasible. Thats my rant over.

I totally agree, the race calender around here is totally saturated. I remember the Seatown 5k last year was the same weekend as the Irish Runner 5 mile in the park and the Clogherhead 10k which is just crazy. The quality was very poor yesterday (and I include myself in that), there are just too many races to choose from which is thinning out the fields, especially near the top. It's much harder to find a good group to run with in a race now as there are so few near the front, I ran the whole race on my own yesterday after the 1st k. Hopefully the good races coming up, the PK 5k and the Mountpleasent 5k get the support they deserve so they can stay on the calender.

menoscemo

pconn062 wrote: »

That was a great 1/2 you ran recently, good to get a good time like that on an accurate course, what happened during your 5k on Saturday?

Cheers yeah, I was really pleased with the half and McMillan was indicating a really good 5k PB based on that so I was kind of expecting one, but it just didn't happen on the day. Legs felt dead and while I wasn't too pushed aerobically I just couldn't go faster!! I guess too many hard miles during the week so I wasn't fresh.
Time still wasn't a disaster though (12 seconds outside PB)

pconn062

menoscemo wrote: »

Cheers yeah, I was really pleased with the half and McMillan was indicating a really good 5k PB based on that so I was kind of expecting one, but it just didn't happen on the day. Legs felt dead and while I wasn't too pushed aerobically I just couldn't go faster!! I guess too many hard miles during the week so I wasn't fresh.
Time still wasn't a disaster though (12 seconds outside PB)

As this thread indicates, I am not the person to be giving advice but you should think about giving another one a bash soon, I'd say it was just a bad day and you are well capable of breaking 18:30 and more. Don't worry about the 12 seconds, I was 43 seconds off my PB!!! :eek:

menoscemo

pconn062 wrote: »

As this thread indicates, I am not the person to be giving advice but you should think about giving another one a bash soon, I'd say it was just a bad day and you are well capable of breaking 18:30 and more. Don't worry about the 12 seconds, I was 43 seconds off my PB!!! :eek:

Yeah I have my eye on a few after London, can't be doing too many at the moment as they tend to mess up the long run, MP sessions etc.

Sorry for the hijack, I thought I was supposed to be giving you advice :P

pconn062

Tuesday: 7 miles easy

Today:

AM: 3 miles easy
PM: 7.5 with session

So back to the grind! Legs felt grand on Tuesday's run, I started slow but worked up to a few 7.20's by the end. Then today I went out for a few easy mile in the morning as I wasn't sure if I would make it to the track. It was absolutely miserable, lashing rain so I called it a day after a short three mile. Then it turns out I could go to the track after all, still a double run occasionally is no harm. We did 6x1k @ I pace but as we ran out in lane 6 and 7 it ended up being about 1100m a lap, which is closer to the JD session, 4-5 mins @ I pace. We took two mins jogged recovery between the repeats. The splits for the kilometre marks were:

Splits: 3.39, 3.35, 3.36, 3.31, 3.36, 3.24

So relatively steady for the first 5 which gave us a 3.35 average pace then we pushed on for the last which brought it down to 3.33. With the extra bit added due to the outside lane we ended up running for about 4 minutes each time, so in total about 23/24 minutes @ 5k pace. I felt good during this and was able to dig in at the end for the final one, which I take as a good sign. Will do something similar next week but will decrease the number of reps and extend the distance, 4x5 mins maybe. Will do a very easy jog tomorrow as the legs are tired now.

MYTD: 458.5

pconn062

Thursday: 7 miles easy

Took it very easy yesterday, the gale of wind coming of the sea had to be seen to be believed, I couldn't get over how strong it was. I was shoved from one side of the road to the other which resulted in me falling into the ditch on one occasion, truly insane weather.

Then yesterday evening disaster struck, I drove home from a concert in Dublin and as soon as I stepped out of the car, I felt my left knee twinge. I've had patellar tendonitis several times before and I recognised the pain straight away. It just came out of nowhere, had no problems all day and it got worse as the night went on. It's worse now this morning and I've been icing it and keeping it compressed, but going by past experience it's looking like a few weeks out. Going to try a short run at the track tonight but I'm not too optimistic, rest will be the only option after that if it's still sore. So looks like my race plans for the next few weeks are gone, will reassess after tonight but will have to decide what I'm going to do with regards to the plan. Will report back later.

MYTD: 465.5

RunningKing

Disaster.
Sorry to hear that - you were going great guns til now.

Physio?

NiallG4

Disaster. I had this and physio insisted that constant easy stretching of hamstrings and quads will speed up the recovery. You might be lucky. If you are gonna try it, find grass to run on. Good luck with it.

RayCun

that's what I'm out with
icing every hour, elevating the knee as much as possible (until my hamstrings start to complain!), and trying to keep myself sane with core work...

ThePiedPiper

Crap luck pconn, really annoying. If you're pretty sure it's tendonitis, is there any point doing anything on it this evening?

It'll seem like a real pain now, but something good could come from this. You've not really had anything approaching a bit of recovery for about a year and a half now, two or three weeks off could be a good thing for you. My experience of coming back from injuries as nearly always been very good, generally back stronger than before the injury. Don't stress, get yourself checked out properly, and regroup in a couple of weeks.

pconn062

RunningKing wrote: »

Disaster.
Sorry to hear that - you were going great guns til now.

Physio?

Prob won't bother with physio this time , I've been to a physio before about it so I know what to do, just a case of waiting it out and being patient with recovery.

NiallG4 wrote: »

Disaster. I had this and physio insisted that constant easy stretching of hamstrings and quads will speed up the recovery. You might be lucky. If you are gonna try it, find grass to run on. Good luck with it.

Cheers Niall, yeah I'm like an eejit here at work stretching whenever I get a free second!

RayCun wrote: »

that's what I'm out with
icing every hour, elevating the knee as much as possible (until my hamstrings start to complain!), and trying to keep myself sane with core work...

It sucks Ray, I thought yours was more of an ITB issue. How is the recovery going? I never really understood the elevation thing, is it to get blood to the area?

RunForestRun wrote: »

Crap luck pconn, really annoying. If you're pretty sure it's tendonitis, is there any point doing anything on it this evening?

It'll seem like a real pain now, but something good could come from this. You've not really had anything approaching a bit of recovery for about a year and a half now, two or three weeks off could be a good thing for you. My experience of coming back from injuries as nearly always been very good, generally back stronger than before the injury. Don't stress, get yourself checked out properly, and regroup in a couple of weeks.

Thanks Aonghus, I'm only going to try a lap of two tonight as it actually feels better when I walk than when standing still. Don't worry if it hurts at all I will stop and begin the rest period. I see where you're coming from with your second point but I don't want a break, I love training!

ThePiedPiper

I'd say there'll be no training tonight anyway, weather is beyond wild. Yeah, I know, I've turned into a wimp lately, but still!!

ecoli

Only catching up on the log. Sorry to hear about the injury be sure to address the rehab with the same vigour you do training and hopefully you will be back in no time

pconn062

Doing lots of stretching and icing, can still feel it when I get up from sitting down for any length of time. Didn't go to the track last night so headed out for a tester jog today just to see how it reacted. Only did 5 minutes and felt zero pain whatsoever, a bit of stiffness that quickly went away. I'm taking this as a good sign that maybe it's not as serious as I first thought. Not going to chance it for another while though. Have a massage booked for Monday so will wait until after that before doing anything. Until then I will keep up the icing and stretching. Boooooooooooooring!!!!