What do you tell your kids?

speaking

Liamario wrote: »

That's a bit of a leap isn't it. The only way that that would occur is if someone told him that.
In the eventuality that he does come up with something, I'm going to let him think that- unless it starts sounding like religious mumbo jumbo.

So you will let him think and come up with what ever likes as long as it is what you like?

Interesting.

I am only saying that because I Know a couple (French) rational and secular humanists who have a nine year old. One day she came home and said she wanted to believe in Jesus etc, basically get conformation. They let her and facilated her in her request. i thought that was a pretty brave thing for them to do if I am being honest. Not something I would do my self.

I argued to them that she has been influenced by overt religious symbols, media, friends etc etc. But they argued as it was her world she was entitled to make sense of it in her own way.

Liamario

speaking wrote: »

So you will let him think and come up with what ever likes as long as it is what you like?

Interesting.

Not what I said at all. I'll try not to teach him anything about what happens when he dies, beyond what we know scientifically. If he comes home and starts talking about Jesus, or any other religion- I'll be finding out who was filling his mind with drivel.

speaking

Liamario wrote: »

Not what I said at all. I'll try not to teach him anything about what happens when he dies, beyond what we know scientifically. If he comes home and starts talking about Jesus, or any other religion- I'll be finding out who was filling his mind with drivel.

So you then should understand that "what he think happened" is actually not what he think happened, its what the world outside himself tells him what happened. so in my opinion it is fine for you to give him your views on the matter.

Dont be afraid to give him an answer to the question based on your views. They are after all superior to a religious answers. You are simply giving him guidance based on your understanding of the world. its actually your responsibility as a parent.

joseph brand

Thumpette wrote: »

Hi All,

I consider myself to be a fairly rational and sensible person, and have no belief at all in organised religion, and particularly despise the catholic church. Sometimes I wonder if there is 'something' out there, but I'm more inclined to the opinion that theres not.


My main query for your god selves is what you tell your kids when something bad happens, particularly when someone close dies. Lies it may be, but it does make for a nice responce for a child to exlain, granny's gone to heaven, she's hapy now and with a, b, c etc. Even though the time is still sad, it does allow you to provide comfort.

Im just really wondering what you tell your kids at times like this? Do you sometimes wish you could soften the blow for them with tough times in life?

Thanks!

Wondering if there's 'something' out there isn't a bad thing. Just don't give in to any of the religious brands out there. Some guy says he has the answers (which is impossible), and then he can tell you how he wants you to live. "We're fine for coal thanks". (Fr Ted)

I'm in a similar situation, whereby by 7 year old son knows I don't 'believe'. Now and then he mentions something to my parents who are medium-to-well-done catholics. Father goes to mass, mother doesn't, but both pray before bed.

Funny story. My mam held up a picture of Padre Pio, a relic I think it's called, and asked me, "Did you say he's crap". My jaw dropped. My response was something like "Eh, I, eh no, who said that?". "Your son said that you said he's crap!" Well, I bit my tongue and didn't laugh. Courtesy.

Just last week I held up a book to my son entitled 'Bible Stories For Children'. There was a drawing of Noah's Ark on the cover. Before I said a word, he said, "That's all crap isn't it"?

I must use the word 'crap' a lot.

joseph brand

speaking wrote: »

Another "in-joke". So many "in-jokes". You should be careful that those continuing to making the "in-jokes" at the expence of reasoned debate dont become someone elses "in-joke":)

"I used to be with it".
"Now I don't even know what it is".

Liamario

speaking wrote: »

So you then should understand that "what he think happened" is actually not what he think happened, its what the world outside himself tells him what happened. so in my opinion it is fine for you to give him your views on the matter.

Dont be afraid to give him an answer to the question based on your views. They are after all superior to a religious answers. You are simply giving him guidance based on your understanding of the world. its actually your responsibility as a parent.

The ideal scenario is that he won't have a clue as to what happens when we die, when I ask him what he thinks happens.
If I was pushed, I would tell him that nobody knows what happens when we die and that if anyone tells him otherwise, they are wrong.

The sad truth is, is that it is a subject that will be brought up by people he interacts with, so there is no avoiding the question. It really isn't something I want him to be spending any time on.

I want to occupy his mind with the infinite possibilities of life rather than the finite possibilities of death.

kylith

Zoria wrote: »

Is it normally this hard to hold a conversation in here...?

Nope, it's usually harder.

Liamario wrote: »

That's a bit of a leap isn't it. The only way that that would occur is if someone told him that.
In the eventuality that he does come up with something, I'm going to let him think that- unless it starts sounding like religious mumbo jumbo.

It's likely that someone will tell him; a teacher, a relative, the television.

Personally I'd tell my kids that no-one knows what happens when you die, that I personally don't think anything happens; you just stop, but that some people find it comforting to think that they're reunited with their family, friends, and dogs who have died, but that there's no way to know until we die ourselves.

Liamario

kylith wrote: »

It's likely that someone will tell him; a teacher, a relative, the television.

No doubt. And to be honest it wouldn't be the end of the world, as long as it doesn't become a regular thing and isn't expanded upon.

Fortyniner

If you tell the kids what you think, as soon as they want to know, they can accept the fact that this is the only chance you get and to make the most of it. Attending the humanist funeral of an atheist should illustrate this.

I listened in to one grandchild saying her other grandad was the brightest star in the sky, then another grandchild (8 years old) explaining to her what a star is, which then left her parents with a problem.

With the growth of atheism in this country we should no longer be afraid of expounding the truth. Personally, I'll get my position up front as soon as I feel a conversation is straying into holy ground. I don't like the idea of being one of a repressed minority. It can be dealt with diplomatically, but it needs to be dealt with. The more open we are, the more acceptable it becomes.

lynski

Zoria wrote: »

I agree with you on the Santa business. I followed tradition and allowed the belief, but my eldest is extremely intelligent, and I felt foolish allowing him to believe it, despite his constant expression of disbelief. So I gave up at ten. He was grateful for the truth.

ten! how did you get to ten? my son is 5.5 and he said before last christmas that santa was make believe like bob the builder, and he has categorically told me already this year that he does not believe in santa and that his friend in school told him it was just your parents. I told him not to think about it too much for now and we will talk again before christmas, but I am going to speak to him before he goes back to school. Not all that sure what to say yet but i cant lie to him.
My 3.5yr old refuses to believe in the tooth fairy, no way.
And one of my proudest moments this year was hearing them admonish a nosy idiot in the supemarket who insisted the easter bunny was coming on sunday; 'there is no easter bunny, just mommy' 'ah there is, blah blah blah (or some such nonsense)', 'No, we just bought our eggs, they are in there'. great kids.
Santa challenges me more then any gods really because I dont want to remove them entirely from the childhood social construct, but he goes to school with muslim girls and ukrainians for whom santa is either non-existent or a minimal part of christmas. I think he is getting a wider exposure to the traditions of end-of-year festivities and thinks about it.
I have had to speak to pre-schools about the fact that we are atheist, as i was surprised to know, that in pre-schools that are private enterprises, for which i was paying, they routinely teach children to say grace before meals and do nativity plays, bible stories, etc, without consultation. This was especially relevant when my father died and we explain it by saying he is in our hearts and in our minds and part of who we are. Had to head-off any heaven discussions.
Parenting without religion or deities in a culturally theist country is fun! :-(

Northclare

speaking wrote: »

magicbastarder wrote: »

calm down with the abusive PMs, speaking.

One abusive PM. (where I called you a sick little Pr!ck)

In the first PM I calmly asked you to take down your post about "eating children"

Your sick little fantasies are disturbing.

I got banned from this forum for a similar reaction to someone who was saying something sick about the souls of dead babies etc....

Little did the mods and users know why I reacted to such a sick quote,yep I was bombarded with abuse and a mod told me it was my reaction which was wrong,and that it was quite acceptable in these discussions to use quotes like that about dead babies and eating children etc...

Well ill say it again I still think people who bring that **** into discussions are sick fcks

robindch

Northclare wrote: »

[...] dead babies and eating children [...]

I'm sure it was said above somewhere, but the "baby eating" thing is a parody of the frequently-encountered religious view that atheists have no moral sense, and therefore consider themselves able to do anything they want to. If the view had any validity, then atheists would be eating babies, or at least reserving to themselves the right to. But since atheists don't eat babies, nor reserve that right, the original religious claim is complete rubbish.

Unfortunately, like the arguments involving the flying-spaghetti-monster, the subtlety of this particular parody is generally lost on religious people, even when it's explained.

Which is a bit of a pity. Oh well. At least we tried

Turtwig

robindch wrote: »

I'm sure it was said above somewhere, but the "baby eating" thing is a parody of the frequently-encountered religious view that atheists have no moral sense, and therefore consider themselves able to do anything they want to. If the view had any validity, then atheists would be eating babies, or at least reserving to themselves the right to. But since atheists don't eat babies, nor reserve that right, the original religious claim is complete rubbish.

Unfortunately, like the arguments involving the flying-spaghetti-monster, the subtlety of this particular parody is generally lost on religious people, even when it's explained.

Which is a bit of a pity. Oh well. At least we tried

Yeah we did, now time for some baby cake. Yummy!

Northclare

That's ok Robin.
The thing is that there's people who are still emotionally attached to their offspring,and if they feel offended by people taking the piss about dead babies souls being fed to monsters and people laughing about it.

I had a bad day that day and it was close to the bone with what I was going through.

I also think it's unfair of people saying Atheists are evil and do bad things etc.

Iv been in and out of here and learned Agnostic Atheists are sound,well most are..

So I can see how Atheists can be offended too,but I'm Agnostic/spiritual and I just draw the line at the babies thing

kylith

I thought we got the baby-eating reputation because that's historically what armies have been told about their enemies: "We have to kill the (insert enemy here), they're so evil they eat babies!".

Sonics2k

Northclare wrote: »

That's ok Robin.
The thing is that there's people who are still emotionally attached to their offspring,and if they feel offended by people taking the piss about dead babies souls being fed to monsters and people laughing about it.

You've either got to be wilfully ignorant or a little bit special if people really think someone really means that they want to eat babies.

It's just dark humour, or in this case a parody of comments made about Atheists in the past.

robindch

Northclare wrote: »

The thing is that there's people who are still emotionally attached to their offspring [...]

If you ask, I think you'll find that most atheists and agnostics are emotionally attached to their offspring too, and value highly their security, their intellectual and emotional development at least as highly as religious people.

And if you look at religious stories like the Old Testament's Abraham's willingness to murder his own son Isaac (quite evil enough) and the subsequent elevation of this evil act into an act of glorious obedience by various of its descendent religions, you might understand why at least some atheists believe that they value their kids significantly more than some religious people do.

And that's quite separate from the unspeakable, annual, bloody horror that is the islamic "festival" of Ashura - I completely fail to understand why there isn't international outrage at this despicable mass lunacy, at least when kids are encouraged to take part, or even see it.

Northclare wrote: »

I had a bad day that day and it was close to the bone with what I was going through.

Fair enough. We all have bad days like that and on behalf of A+A - apologies; bad timing.

Zoria

lynski wrote: »

ten! how did you get to ten?

A lot of covering up and porkies Some of the children at his school were telling him that there was no such thing, but not many of them. I suppose others influence you to stretch it out for as long as you can get, because children are growing up so fast these days. They are much savvier than when I was growing up. I refused to believe what my friends at school were saying, and had to be told at 11 The santa thing is just one thing though. I don't want to push my beliefs, or lack thereof to the children.

kylith

I managed to keep Santa going till I was twelve. Greedy little feck that I was. My mother told me to cop myself on when I was going into secondary.

Bannasidhe

speaking wrote: »

And if he says in answer.............

"I think there is this man in the sky who is going to make things okay"

What you going to do then?

Been there. Dealt with that both with my own son and my grand-daughter.

'Some people believe there is a God who made the world and everything in it and, if you do as this God says, when you die you go to a place called heaven as a reward. I don't believe that. I do not know what happens when you die, but neither does anyone else so when people say they do know they are guessing or just saying what other people, who also don't know, told them.'

Both of them decided this was perfectly reasonable.

marienbad

I have never found this to be a big issue, it is not what your tell kids that counts - it is how you live that counts. And when kids are young honesty (imho) is a greatly overated notion . I lied to my kids all the time and now I am doing it to the grandkids,

My partner is catholic and so over time kids make up their own minds based on how you live and not what you say. All of them went to catholics schools and did the baptism communion route etc. I just wore my beliefs openly and when asked explained them. Now only one of my kids is catholic and a cultural one at that and the rest are all atheist - some agressively so.

It is how you live that counts .

pontia

lynski wrote: »

ten! how did you get to ten? my son is 5.5 and he said before last christmas that santa was make believe like bob the builder, and he has categorically told me already this year that he does not believe in santa and that his friend in school told him it was just your parents. I told him not to think about it too much for now and we will talk again before christmas, but I am going to speak to him before he goes back to school. Not all that sure what to say yet but i cant lie to him.
My 3.5yr old refuses to believe in the tooth fairy, no way.
And one of my proudest moments this year was hearing them admonish a nosy idiot in the supemarket who insisted the easter bunny was coming on sunday; 'there is no easter bunny, just mommy' 'ah there is, blah blah blah (or some such nonsense)', 'No, we just bought our eggs, they are in there'. great kids.
Santa challenges me more then any gods really because I dont want to remove them entirely from the childhood social construct, but he goes to school with muslim girls and ukrainians for whom santa is either non-existent or a minimal part of christmas. I think he is getting a wider exposure to the traditions of end-of-year festivities and thinks about it.
I have had to speak to pre-schools about the fact that we are atheist, as i was surprised to know, that in pre-schools that are private enterprises, for which i was paying, they routinely teach children to say grace before meals and do nativity plays, bible stories, etc, without consultation. This was especially relevant when my father died and we explain it by saying he is in our hearts and in our minds and part of who we are. Had to head-off any heaven discussions.
Parenting without religion or deities in a culturally theist country is fun! :-(

your a sad sad person,must be great growing up in that house

Turtwig

pontia wrote: »

lynski wrote: »

ten! how did you get to ten? my son is 5.5 and he said before last christmas that santa was make believe like bob the builder, and he has categorically told me already this year that he does not believe in santa and that his friend in school told him it was just your parents. I told him not to think about it too much for now and we will talk again before christmas, but I am going to speak to him before he goes back to school. Not all that sure what to say yet but i cant lie to him.
My 3.5yr old refuses to believe in the tooth fairy, no way.
And one of my proudest moments this year was hearing them admonish a nosy idiot in the supemarket who insisted the easter bunny was coming on sunday; 'there is no easter bunny, just mommy' 'ah there is, blah blah blah (or some such nonsense)', 'No, we just bought our eggs, they are in there'. great kids.
Santa challenges me more then any gods really because I dont want to remove them entirely from the childhood social construct, but he goes to school with muslim girls and ukrainians for whom santa is either non-existent or a minimal part of christmas. I think he is getting a wider exposure to the traditions of end-of-year festivities and thinks about it.
I have had to speak to pre-schools about the fact that we are atheist, as i was surprised to know, that in pre-schools that are private enterprises, for which i was paying, they routinely teach children to say grace before meals and do nativity plays, bible stories, etc, without consultation. This was especially relevant when my father died and we explain it by saying he is in our hearts and in our minds and part of who we are. Had to head-off any heaven discussions.
Parenting without religion or deities in a culturally theist country is fun! :-(

your a sad sad person,must be great growing up in that house

You're.*

Sarky

You forgot to mention the missing space after the comma and the lack of a full stop at the end. Are you going soft, Jernal?

Bannasidhe

pontia wrote: »

your a sad sad person,must be great growing up in that house

Bit judgemental IMHO (as well as grammatically incorrect).

speaking

robindch wrote: »

I'm sure it was said above somewhere, but the "baby eating" thing is a parody of the frequently-encountered religious view that atheists have no moral sense, and therefore consider themselves able to do anything they want to. If the view had any validity, then atheists would be eating babies, or at least reserving to themselves the right to. But since atheists don't eat babies, nor reserve that right, the original religious claim is complete rubbish.

Did any religious person every really say that atheists are likely to eat babies, even in an abstract discussion on morality? I really doubt it.[/QUOTE]

robindch wrote: »

Unfortunately, like the arguments involving the flying-spaghetti-monster, the subtlety of this particular parody is generally lost on religious people, even when it's explained.

Which is a bit of a pity. Oh well. At least we tried

Not that I want to stir this up again, but I was offended by the post, it nothing to do with the fact that religious people don't understand parody.

You really think it is a subtle parody?

And flying spaghetti monster a subtle parody?

Are you that closed minded that you think religious people are that stupid that they would'nt understand a very simple parody? I'd probably say most do in fairness, but choose to say the parody is a not very good one.

I think its a little bit of a cop out to trot out the well worn argument about not understanding subtlety, and argument religious people use when justifying the rubbish in the bible all the time.

I let it go in the first place because I did not want to make an issue out of it.
But I still say the cheap use of children to make a point is a little sick, and yea I get the "parody" of it I just think its banal.

Dades

pontia wrote: »

your a sad sad person,must be great growing up in that house

Less of the ad hominem posting thanks, and maybe lay off the judgement too.

FinnLizzy

Had this conversation with a few friends. None of them would be strongly religious, and some of them would be atheists (but think that atheist is a dirty word, so piss about with the "I don't believe in God but, blah blah spiritual blah blah my granny")

Anyways, a lot of them think that atheism should, and doesn't, offer some sort of alternative to their childhood experience. They believe that the baptism, communion, "we all go to heaven" and lip service are all part of growing up.

But they'd just think that the easy way around parenting in Ireland is to pander to their parents.

And you'd be surprised with the amount to people that don't believe in God, but get all butthurt when you joke about it. Gotta love Ireland.

speaking

Jernal wrote: »

Yeah we did, now time for some baby cake. Yummy!

Oh now I see, watching a baby in the shape of a cake have its head sliced open, now thats so funny I really can see there the nuanced humor all right.

Maybe a few of my fellow atheists are playing a little to much 18 rated playstation games me thinks,

Its called dehumanization not to find that image sick.

But see I am probably too stupid to understand the nuance in that.

Where do we stop folks?

pontia

a guy takes pleasure out of ruining a innocent childs easter and im berated,says a lot really

Dades

speaking wrote: »

Not that I want to stir this up again, but I was offended by the post, it nothing to do with the fact that religious people don't understand parody.

With all due respect it's nobody's fault except your own that you're offended by something banal. You can't expect everyone in life to tippy-toe around afraid to parody or satirise in case someone's sensitivity meter is set to 11.

Bannasidhe

pontia wrote: »

a guy takes pleasure out of ruining a innocent childs easter and im berated,says a lot really

Where did he do this?

His post says

And one of my proudest moments this year was hearing them admonish a nosy idiot in the supemarket who insisted the easter bunny was coming on sunday; 'there is no easter bunny, just mommy' 'ah there is, blah blah blah (or some such nonsense)', 'No, we just bought our eggs, they are in there'. great kids.

I read that as someone - an adult- told his kids the Easter Bunny was coming, his kids then informed this adult that there is no Easter Bunny.
How exactly is that ruining an innocent child's Easter ?

Dades

pontia wrote: »

a guy takes pleasure out of ruining a innocent childs easter and im berated,says a lot really

There's nothing in the charter about conversations in a supermarket involving Easter. There is however, mention of attacking the post, not the poster.

speaking

Dades wrote: »

With all due respect it's nobody's fault except your own that you're offended by something banal. You can't expect everyone in life to tippy-toe around afraid to parody or satirise in case someone's sensitivity meter is set to 11.

Dades, I consider you a reasonable kind of person seriously (from reading your posts, not trying to butter you up or anything seriously)

But why do you allow that image of the child getting its head sliced open, even in the shape of a cake its utterly sick. Utterly. Whats more disturbing is the adults in the background doing it.

Did I just wake up after a million years in a cryogenic pod where this kind of imagery is now considered okay???

Its fvcking sick. Simple as.

No parody, no subtly humor, just sick.

Bannasidhe

speaking wrote: »

Dades, I consider you a reasonable kind of person seriously (from reading your posts, not trying to butter you up or anything seriously)

But why do you allow that image of the child getting its head sliced open, even in the shape of a cake its utterly sick. Utterly. Whats more disturbing is the adults in the background doing it.

Did I just wake up after a million years in a cryogenic pod where this kind of imagery is now considered okay???

Its fvcking sick. Simple as.

No parody, no subtly humor, just sick.

I don't like that image, but it's a cake. I find images of children starving while the Pope sits on a golden throne to be utterly sick and offensive. I see them on the news nearly every night.

speaking

Also I have noticed from fellow atheists with children on this thread that they take great pride in where there three or four year old undermines old people religious beliefs or butts in to other people conversations in supermarkets.

Its great that they are free thinking reasoned kids I am all for that, but there's also the simple issue of children having a little manners.

mcmoustache

Dades wrote: »

There's nothing in the charter about conversations in a supermarket involving Easter. There is however, mention of attacking the post, not the poster.

That reads like a piece of poetry. Quite beautiful, actually.

Just thought I'd mention it. Carry on.

speaking

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I don't like that image, but it's a cake. I find images of children starving while the Pope sits on a golden throne to be utterly sick and offensive. I see them on the news nearly every night.

What has a sick picture of a child (cake) having its head sliced open got to do with the Pope.

Why can you just not find both images issues sick. They are.

Bannasidhe

speaking wrote: »

Also I have noticed from fellow atheists with children on this thread that they take great pride in where there three or four year old undermines old people religious beliefs or butts in to other people conversations in supermarkets.

Its great that they are free thinking reasoned kids I am all for that, but there's also the simple issue of children having a little manners.

Hold your horses there speaking. As one of those ' fellow atheists with children' (and grandchildren) I take issue with your little dig there. Neither my son or my grandchildren would ever interrupt someone conversation - I am very strict on manners - but if some one (of any religion) makes some 'Holy God/Little baby Jesus' comment to them, and they reply that they do not believe in 'Holy God/ Little baby Jesus' then yes. I am proud of them for standing up for what they believe in and declaring that without fear- no matter how old they are!

Age does not give one a free pass to pass one's religious mumbo jumbo onto children.

mcmoustache

speaking wrote: »

Its great that they are free thinking reasoned kids I am all for that, but there's also the simple issue of children having a little manners.

It's easy for an adult to be a bit more sensitive to the delusions of older people and keep their mouth shut when they hear nonsense. Kids, on the other hand, not so much.

You can't really blame them either. You can't exactly tell them, "Kids, people are wrong all the time but it's rude to correct them, even when they are retardedly wrong."

Then again, maybe you could say, "I know Grandad believes in rubbish but don't tell him because he might be upset."

I'm not sure really but I think it would be hard to teach a kid about which bull**** should be tolerated and which shouldn't.

Turtwig

mcmoustache wrote: »

That reads like a piece of poetry. Quite beautiful, actually.

Just thought I'd mention it. Carry on.

Uh oh. Dades hates poetry.

speaking

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's easy for an adult to be a bit more sensitive to the delusions of older people and keep their mouth shut when they hear nonsense. Kids, on the other hand, not so much..

Thats where the parenting comes in I suppose.

You can't really blame them either. You can't exactly tell them, "Kids, people are wrong all the time but it's rude to correct them, even when they are retardedly wrong."

No, but you can say something like this "its rude to butt into other peoples when they are are chatting in the supermarket"

Then again, maybe you could say, "I know Grandad believes in rubbish but don't tell him because he might be upset."

Instilling a respect for a grandparent from an early age would probably help a child realize that rubbishing the grandparents deeply held convictions in front of them is probably not the most tactful thing to do. If a child is wise enough to understand that religious superstition is a load of rubbish, he/she is probably wise enough to realise that disrespecting there grand parents is out of line too.

I'm not sure really but I think it would be hard to teach a kid about which bull**** should be tolerated and which shouldn't.

Kids should tolerate pretty much everything from their grand-parents, but then again I may be a traditionalist. Call me an old school atheist if you like.

Mark Hamill

speaking wrote: »

Also I have noticed from fellow atheists with children on this thread that they take great pride in where there three or four year old undermines old people religious beliefs or butts in to other people conversations in supermarkets.

Its great that they are free thinking reasoned kids I am all for that, but there's also the simple issue of children having a little manners.

If someone has a belief that a four year old can undermine then the manners of that four year old should be the last thing they think of changing.

speaking

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Neither my son or my grandchildren would ever interrupt someone conversation - I am very strict on manners - but if some one (of any religion) makes some 'Holy God/Little baby Jesus' comment to them, and they reply that they do not believe in 'Holy God/ Little baby Jesus' then yes. I am proud of them for standing up for what they believe in and declaring that without fear- no matter how old they are!

Its not a dig at you if you did not mention this in any post. SO I am not talking about you.

Age does not give one a free pass to pass one's religious mumbo jumbo onto children.

Very true.

speaking

Mark Hamill wrote: »

If someone has a belief that a four year old can undermine then the manners of that four year old should be the last thing they think of changing.

Yes a four year old can undermine, it may not be their intention but it can be what happens.

And I am really taking about the parents proud reaction to a child rubbishing their grandparents deeply held religious beliefs, not really the actions of the child.

A child is a product of their upbringing alright.

Bannasidhe

speaking wrote: »

Its not a dig at you if you did not mention this in any post. SO I am not talking about you.

.

speaking - did someone eat your cake? You seem determined to have a go at people.

My son aged 9 at the time opened the door to find a priest standing there asking for the dues. My son had never encountered this phenomenon having grown up in England. He misheard the priest and thought he asked for the 'Jews' - son had many Jewish friends whose families had been wiped out in the Holocaust so the phrase 'I've come for the Jews' had meaning to him, 'come for the dues' was meaningless - he politely asked the priest to wait and came to tell me about the priest looking for the Jews. I laughed and said 'no love, he wants the dues - money. Just tell him we are not Catholic.'
Son trotted back to the door and said 'Sorry Father, we arn't Catholic.' Priest replied 'Well God bless you anyway'.

I was very proud of my 9 year old son when I heard him say ' Excuse me Father, but what exactly do you mean by 'anyway'?'

I still am that he had the courage to question the implied insult and he did so very politely.

mcmoustache

speaking wrote: »

Instilling a respect for a grandparent from an early age would probably help a child realize that rubbishing the grandparents deeply held convictions in front of them is probably not the most tactful thing to do. If a child is wise enough to understand that religious superstition is a load of rubbish, he/she is probably wise enough to realise that disrespecting there grand parents is out of line too.

I'm not too sure about this. Knowing that an idea is rubbish is quite easy. Understanding the social norms regarding what's allowed to be corrected and what isn't is a bit trickier. Then again, I don't think it's too hard to teach a kid to keep schtum when Grandpa goes on about god or that nig-nog on the football team.

speaking wrote: »

Kids should tolerate pretty much everything from their grand-parents, but then again I may be a traditionalist. Call me an old school atheist if you like.

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree. Honestly, it's a bit of a pickle. I'd probably lean towards making the kid know that Grandads opinions on things are wrong but we don't say anything because he doesn't know any better. It depends on the grandad too. Not all of them are intellectually deficient.

Mark Hamill

speaking wrote: »

Yes a four year old can undermine, it may not be their intention but it can be what happens.

I don't think you understood what I meant.

speaking wrote: »

And I am really taking about the parents proud reaction to a child rubbishing their grandparents deeply held religious beliefs, not really the actions of the child.

No, you are trying to distract from the fact that someone was undermined by a child by saying the child shouldn't be encouraged to do that. If someone has a belief that a four year old can undermine then they really should reconsider the belief, regardless of how well mannered the child was in doing so.

speaking wrote: »

A child is a product of their upbringing alright.

Hence people are so proud that their four year old can point out when an adult is wrong.

mcmoustache

speaking wrote: »

And I am really taking about the parents proud reaction to a child rubbishing their grandparents deeply held religious beliefs, not really the actions of the child.

I think this comes under, "Funny things kids say". Did you laugh in when you saw the guy's wig grabbed by the kid in "Look who's talking"? While the baldy was upset, it's always hilarious when an innocent kid smashes through the bullshít that an adult wouldn't.

speaking

Bannasidhe wrote: »

speaking - did someone eat your cake? You seem determined to have a go at people.

Dades is that not an example of attacking the poster?

It happens to be an image of a baby getting its head sliced open. Its sick.

What other images of children being ued for parody purposes in cakes would you draw the line at??

My son aged 9 at the time opened the door to find a priest standing there asking for the dues. My son had never encountered this phenomenon having grown up in England. He misheard the priest and thought he asked for the 'Jews' - son had many Jewish friends whose families had been wiped out in the Holocaust so the phrase 'I've come for the Jews' had meaning to him, 'come for the dues' was meaningless - he politely asked the priest to wait and came to tell me about the priest looking for the Jews. I laughed and said 'no love, he wants the dues - money. Just tell him we are not Catholic.'
Son trotted back to the door and said 'Sorry Father, we arn't Catholic.' Priest replied 'Well God bless you anyway'.


I still am that he had the courage to question the implied insult and he did so very politely.

Interesting story.