Has anyone been refused the dole on Return

Zambia

Hi

This may be of interest to 2nd WHV holders

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=743037

Over 3,000 returning Irish refused dole
By Aideen Sheehan
Thursday October 28 2010
MORE than 3,000 returning Irish emigrants have been refused social welfare payments because they haven't been living in Ireland for the two years before they made their claims.

The inconsistent enforcement of an 'habitual residency' requirement -- originally designed to stop welfare tourism from eastern Europe -- is causing enormous hardship.

The problem is so bad that some Irish citizens are ending up on the streets as a result, the Dail's Committee on Social Protection was told.

Emigrants who left Ireland in the 1960s and '70s are being affected, as well as some who left as recently as 18 months ago but have now returned and are being denied social welfare, said Joe O'Brien of Crosscare, the Catholic social-care agency.

The number of Irish citizens being turned down as habitual residents -- a condition for social welfare entitlements -- has doubled in the past two years, with 1,723 rejected between 2008 and 2009, and a total of 3,261 in all since the measure was introduced in 2004, Crosscare said.

The number of cases coming to Crosscare's attention in 2010 has increased five-fold already this year, said Mr O'Brien.

One of those affected is Rita Delaney.

After living and working for 17 years in Boston, Ms Delaney, who was born and raised in Pullough, Co Offaly, returned to Ireland in September, after being laid off from her job with the Massachussetts Institute of Technology.

Based in Dublin, she has been seeking work, but was shocked at the response when she went to the Department of Social Protection to see if she could claim jobseeker's allowance.

"One person there told me my best bet would be just to get on a plane back to the US," she said.

Ms Delaney, whose brother and other relatives still live in Ireland, has been turned down for habitual residency but given no explanation for that. With the aid of Crosscare, she plans to appeal the decision.

- Aideen Sheehan

Irish Independent

Father Damo

Im nearly certain I read in the Irish Echo they are taking moves to relax this rule (your article is from 2010).

Its pretty disgraceful to think I spent 7 years paying for nearly 90% of travellers to get drunk all night and sleep all day (according to the unempoloyment rates they had in the boom) when I mightnt be entitled to a handout if I needed it. Some country.

CatFromHue

I went to NZ in 06/07 for the full year on the WHV and when I got back to Ireland I took a contract job in Belfast for a year, this took me to May 08. This was around the time a lot of companies started to let people go as the recession was only being realized.

I'd enough savings to see my through a month or two but couldn't get anywhere with getting a job. I went to the Social Welfare office and was told, as outlined above, that as I'd been away from Ireland for 2 years so I wasn't eligible. This as you can imagine was pretty bad news for me. I'd moved home because of the lack of funds so wasn't homeless or anything but I was broke. It wasn't a question of me not looking for work as I was fully able to provide plenty of rejection letters from various different jobs.

I was able to arrange a meeting with a Welfare Officer (the proper title I can't remember) who I had to show my bank details to. It was pretty obvious the situation I was in and he put me forward to claim for an allowance (this was at the same rate for the dole) which would take a few weeks to actually come through. All in the whole process from going to the Welfare Office first to receiving a payment took nearly 2 months. By this time I had actually managed to get a job though so it was of no real help when I needed it most.

rightyabe

I asked the question in the State Benifits thread a few months back before I came to Oz...heres the link below!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71664988

myflipflops

Probably on my own here but I don't think we should be entitled to social welfare on returning to Ireland, certainly not the full amount. I will hopefully go back to Ireland after 3 or 4 years away and will not expect anything.

Then again, I think the whole social welfare system needs to be completely overhauled.

Zambia

Flip you could imagine someone being really p*ssed if they paid PRSI in ireland for 5 years left for 2 then on return were told that they can stuff it.

daftdave

Zambia wrote: »

Flip you could imagine someone being really p*ssed if they paid PRSI in ireland for 5 years left for 2 then on return were told that they can stuff it.

i worked, paid tax and prsi, from when i left school at 16 until i left Ireland at the age of 29 , if i return to be told that im not entitled to support from social welfare or job seekers allowance, that is basically the irish government abandoning their own people who gave them a lot of money when the times were good.

myflipflops

Zambia wrote: »

Flip you could imagine someone being really p*ssed if they paid PRSI in ireland for 5 years left for 2 then on return were told that they can stuff it.

In certain situations. I spent 4 and a half working full time before i headed off at 25. I may have a different perspective if I had been unemployed and unable to find work for myself but I believe i have forfeited my rights to claim social welfare if (hopefully when) I go back. I would certainly have a different opinion if I had a family to look after.

As i say, I believe the social welfare system should be overhauled. It should exist to support those in society who are most in need. That does not include someone in my position returning home and especially people who just spent a year or 2 travelling about Australia working to party.

rightyabe

myflipflops wrote: »

In certain situations. I spent 4 and a half working full time before i headed off at 25. I may have a different perspective if I had been unemployed and unable to find work for myself but I believe i have forfeited my rights to claim social welfare if (hopefully when) I go back. I would certainly have a different opinion if I had a family to look after.

As i say, I believe the social welfare system should be overhauled. It should exist to support those in society who are most in need. That does not include someone in my position returning home and especially people who just spent a year or 2 travelling about Australia working to party.[/QUOTE]

Think your being a bit harsh there, just because someone chose to do a bit of travelling for a year and spend a few bob on beer doesn't mean they should not be able to get the dole when they return. A lot of people on WHV now come to get sponsored and stay for the long term but for some who cant get sponsored, why punish them for trying to better their future.

So when these people return from oz after 2 years you think they should recieve 0 support from their own government? just because they left a country that had limited oppertunity and tried to better themselves...unbeliveable!

Zambia

I would be half in your camp. If the social welfare state can support re-arrivals for a short time it could set them up so they start of on there own steam. If you contribute to it you should be able to call on it later like a credit system at least.

Even a few weeks of keeping you in food and transport costs to get you back working.

pclancy

Just out of interest does anyone know the story for Ozzies or Kiwis that go to their big European OEs for a few years and then come home, do those governments help returning migrants I wonder?

karl bracken

First off i agree that the social system has flaws, but in fairness if we leave for 2 years or 10 years we are Irish and should get a helping hand in our own country when we return to get us back on our feet if needed or keep us going for a bit of time and im not talking about scrounging.

Say someone lives at home and is on the dole for a few years, why are we not entitled to it even though we were away trying to make something better for ourselves and have not been claiming for the last few years and taking from the government?

Even if you return and stay on the dole you are doing no worse than someone who has came out of school and been on the dole since they left school.

I think the mentality of someone who does go away to find work is showing initiative to get something better but someone who stays at home will get the dole, so the person trying to make something of themselves gets punished if they fail and have to return home.

In the comment above i am not sayin people at home on the dole are not trying but it takes more b*lls to get up and leave and try for something better.

Bring on the criticism :eek:

mandrake04

karl bracken wrote: »

First off i agree that the social system has flaws, but in fairness if we leave for 2 years or 10 years we are Irish and should get a helping hand in our own country when we return to get us back on our feet if needed or keep us going for a bit of time and im not talking about scrounging.

Say someone lives at home and is on the dole for a few years, why are we not entitled to it even though we were away trying to make something better for ourselves and have not been claiming for the last few years and taking from the government?

Even if you return and stay on the dole you are doing no worse than someone who has came out of school and been on the dole since they left school.

I think the mentality of someone who does go away to find work is showing initiative to get something better but someone who stays at home will get the dole, so the person trying to make something of themselves gets punished if they fail and have to return home.

In the comment above i am not sayin people at home on the dole are not trying but it takes more b*lls to get up and leave and try for something better.

Bring on the criticism :eek:

Your post makes a lot of sense, if you are an Irish citizen you should be entitled to something to get you on your feet from the start no matter if you just came back from holidays or just made redundant. Also non-Irish people should get nothing from the state wether they previously worked or are asylum seekers they should not get a single cent.

daftdave

mandrake04 wrote: »

Your post makes a lot of sense, if you are an Irish citizen you should be entitled to something to get you on your feet from the start no matter if you just came back from holidays or just made redundant. Also non-Irish people should get nothing from the state wether they previously worked or are asylum seekers they should not get a single cent.

agreed, the country cant look after their own people as it is , never mind pay out to non nationals.

Ive been paying tax for 3 years here in Australia, i am not entitled to medi care and im certainly not entitled to the dole if i become unemployed or injured.

mandrake04

daftdave wrote: »

agreed, the country cant look after their own people as it is , never mind pay out to non nationals.

Ive been paying tax for 3 years here in Australia, i am not entitled to medi care and im certainly not entitled to the dole if i become unemployed or injured.

Exactly

If your were to become a PR tomorrow which is 95% citizen you wouldn't be entitled to claim benefits for 2 years. It's actually part of the application form to agree that you can't stick you hand out.

rightyabe

I'm with Karl Bracken

Well said!!

I personally would feel very let down if I returned to Eire after 2 years in Oz trying to better myself and was told I cant get any help from the Social.

Talk about kicking a man whens he's down!!:mad:

veloc123

rightyabe wrote: »

I'm with Karl Bracken

Well said!!

I personally would feel very let down if I returned to Eire after 2 years in Oz trying to better myself and was told I cant get any help from the Social.

Talk about kicking a man whens he's down!!:mad:

The reality is the social landscape has changed with an increase in scammers from African and Eastern European territories. Hence everyone has to be affected by changes to catch any charlatans living in the cracks.

hussey

veloc123 wrote: »

The reality is the social landscape has changed with an increase in scammers from African and Eastern European territories. Hence everyone has to be affected by changes to catch any charlatans living in the cracks.

And you forgot fellow Irishmen in the scammer list.

karl bracken

veloc123 wrote: »

The reality is the social landscape has changed with an increase in scammers from African and Eastern European territories. Hence everyone has to be affected by changes to catch any charlatans living in the cracks.

There is no catching charlatans with people returning home from another country after seeking work, its fairly obvious, we have returned and still want to work, now they would like what all other Irish citizens are entitled to.

If your own country wont look after you who will?! We have looked after half of Eastern Europe... Well maybe not that many lol

Generally people who have worked abroad for a few years have the drive to find work and especially if their standard of living in Oz was better, being on the dole would be motivation enough to do your best and get work...

What if you end up having a child or return for whatever reason and thats you and your kid not entitled to anything, while, someone who hasnt worked in 5 years can still pick up the dole anyways

Yes giving everyone and i mean foreigners a free ride was fairly stupid but that was bad management of the country, im on a 457 and im not entitled to social over here which is a much better system than we had, different levels of visa is what we could have done at home and it would have stopped a lot of that.

Anyways your Irish, if you go home get your means test if you pass it, it should not be a matter of where you have lived for the last few years but that your Irish.

It would be interesting to see how other countries like Oz or NZ handle their people coming home?!

csm

I know an aussie in work who has very limited medicare coverage because he has been outside the country for more than 5 years. His Irish girlfriend (who came on a WHV) has more medicare rights.

So Ireland isn't the only country

hussey

csm wrote: »

I know an aussie in work who has very limited medicare coverage because he has been outside the country for more than 5 years. His Irish girlfriend (who came on a WHV) has more medicare rights.

So Ireland isn't the only country

Unless she is from the north, she has zero medicare rights. (or very limited)

mandrake04

csm wrote: »

I know an aussie in work who has very limited medicare coverage because he has been outside the country for more than 5 years. His Irish girlfriend (who came on a WHV) has more medicare rights.

So Ireland isn't the only country

He just has to prove his residency and intent to return to reside and he good to go.

Probably take all of 1 minute.

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/register/files/1856-20-medicare-enrolment-returning-residents.pdf

csm

well he's out of the country for the next while but I'll let him know if he doesn't already.

Ireland has a reciprocal healthcare agreement with Australia, so yes she does have rights. She cannot enrol in Medicare, however.

mandrake04

csm wrote: »

well he's out of the country for the next while but I'll let him know if he doesn't already.

If he has a current Aussie passport he will always be entitled to Medicare, he just needs to re-enrol.

ie. it runs out every 5 years and has to be re-issued (new card etc)

csm wrote: »

Ireland has a reciprocal healthcare agreement with Australia, so yes she does have rights. She cannot enrol in Medicare, however.

If she does not have medicare nor entitled to it how can she have more medicare rights than an Aus citizen?

Really it was pointless post

csm

mandrake04 wrote: »

If he has a current Aussie passport he will always be entitled to Medicare, he just needs to re-enrol.

ie. it runs out every 5 years and has to be re-issued (new card etc)

Fair enough, he mentioned it once at coffee. Clearly, he was misinformed and he actually does have rights.

mandrake04 wrote: »

If she does not have medicare nor entitled to it how can she have more medicare rights than an Aus citizen?

Really it was pointless post

She is entitled to some Medicare benefits, but does not have to enrol to claim them because Irish citizens can claim Medicare benefits at the point of service by producing their passports. All of this is clearly laid out on the Medicare website.

So no, it was not a pointless post, as it was clarifying that Irish citizens do, in fact, have medicare rights.

hussey

csm wrote: »

She is entitled to some Medicare benefits, but does not have to enrol to claim them because Irish citizens can claim Medicare benefits at the point of service by producing their passports. All of this is clearly laid out on the Medicare website.

You are a bit off in your claim
Irish people are entitled to:

As a resident of the Republic of Ireland or New Zealand you are entitled to free treatment as a public in-patient or outpatient at a public hospital and access to subsidised medicines under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme during your visit to Australia.

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/visitors/ireland-nz.jsp

which is well short of what you claimed (point of service)

csm

I never claimed she had full rights and I'm sorry if you got that impression. I was just correcting your claim that she had 'zero rights'.

Anyway this is way off topic now so I'm going to leave it at that. Have a good one.

Rob.

veloc123

hussey wrote: »

And you forgot fellow Irishmen in the scammer list.

This is Ireland not Poland or Nigeria...

odds_on

mandrake04 wrote: »

Your post makes a lot of sense, if you are an Irish citizen you should be entitled to something to get you on your feet from the start no matter if you just came back from holidays or just made redundant. Also non-Irish people should get nothing from the state wether they previously worked or are asylum seekers they should not get a single cent.

I've been out of the country for nearly 14 years. 7 years teaching English in Spain then nearly another 7 years in South America. I'll be 66 this year hence I'm retired. Diagnosed with cancer of the marrow bone (Multiple Myeloma) in 2010. I had no medical insurance and not entitled to medical care in Argentina.
However, I was treated here in Argentina to a stage where I was declared to be in complete remission. Then I had an autologous (self donor) bone marrow transplant and am now recovering well.
I will be returning to Ireland next month to die in my homeland. I will need medical assistance in the way of medical checks and medication.
As an Irish citizen, born and raised in Ireland - worked many years in Ireland and paid all my taxes from 1964 onwards but I will still have to prove my habitual residency will be Ireland.

Part of the problem as I see it is that the various governments are trying to get so many people to become "Irish" through their ancestry going back a few generations and giving them Irish Passports. Then these people who have never worked in Ireland nor paid any taxes here, want to come to the country to live and want social assistance.
Likewise, any European has more rights in the country than a returning national.

Doesn't seem right to me.

Sorry, I now see that this thread is in Australia and New Zealand. I came via a search with "habitual residency"

mandrake04

I do sympathise with you odds_on, it doesn't seem right. When I think of the money squandered on Asylum seekers and other spides it makes my blood boil when I hear stories like that. We should be looking after our own first and foremost.

Anyway I wish you well.

odds_on

mandrake04 wrote: »

I do sympathise with you odds_on, it doesn't seem right. When I think of the money squandered on Asylum seekers and other spides it makes my blood boil when I hear stories like that. We should be looking after our own first and foremost.

Anyway I wish you well.

Thanks, mandrake04, I am ready to go when the Good Lord calls me, whenever that is - could be this year, in a few years time or maybe 10 or 15 years from now - but I would just rather die in my homeland. Though I know it's no problem living there - it will be the need of medical attention, and of course, with this condition there would be no chance of a reasonably priced health care plan.