Bertie's 367K secretarial expenses since 2008

Freddie59

Biggins wrote: »

No, your trying to make it about one claim. Speaking for everyone lese now with the "We" ?
Some of us are talking about the whole topic.
Your just being belligerent and pedantic!

+1 to that.

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

I think you need to pay more attention to the news if you really hold such a simplistic view of the situation.

It is very simple. Bankrupt entities bailed out by the taxpayer, with said taxpayer then being asked to prop up a PS and SW bill that is beyond ridiculous - even by Irish standards. But, hey, while some people seek to justify it then it's hardly likely that anything will change. But one day we WILL run out of money. And that day is approaching. Fast.

I was responding to your interpretation of what is happening in Greece

Freddie59

Downlinz wrote: »

Load of BS, head office in the land and you seriously expect him to be using Lidl printers? 1,500 is not an excessive amount to spend on computing equipment for matters of national importance. Good software and network security for a start isn't cheap.

People need to cop on and realise that while these people were no saints they're not the comic book villain yielding a big with the dollar sign on it that you'd like them to be.

Sick of all you moaners, just bear in mind there are children out there who'll have got more expensive computing equipment than that this very christmas. And sure I'm sure if he skimped and got cheap **** and had documents of national importance leaked you'd be the very same people to complain about a lack of professional?

Given that he is a RETIRED Taoiseach, what would these issues of "national importance" be, precisely?

Not the comic book villains? Your opinion.......

Mark200

Biggins wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

We were talking about a very specific claim, not claims in general.

No, your trying to make it about one claim. Speaking for everyone else now with the "We" ?
Some of us are talking about the whole topic that needs to be addressed.
Your just being belligerent and pedantic!

Sorry when you replied about that one claim on computer equipment suggesting that too much was spent, I assumed you were talking about that one claim on computer equipment. My mistake

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

What if he got a laser printer so that he wouldn't have to wait 20 minutes for your top of the range printer to print one report?

Are you actually a retired TD? NOTHING can justify this waste. Absolutely NOTHING. And why would this report be so urgent anyway? From someone who fcuked the place up in the first instance?

No.

And I'm not defending waste.

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

I was responding to your interpretation of what is happening in Greece

Direct comparison. One country lay down and took it up the ass, another revolted and got results.

Tango One

Just looking at the expensive for Haughey he died June 2006 but managed to claim more for that year than the previous full year, plus he claim 136euro in 2007 even though he was dead!.

Link

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

I was responding to your interpretation of what is happening in Greece

Direct comparison. One country lay down and took it up the ass, another revolted and got results.

It says a lot that you'd prefer Ireland to be in Greece's situation.

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

No.

And I'm not defending waste.

Yes you are. A RETIRED Taoiseach spends €1500 on equipment he could have got for half that (he shouldn't be getting any allowances AT ALL) and you're becoming all indignant because people are (rightfully) criticising this blatant waste of public funds.

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

It says a lot that you'd prefer Ireland to be in Greece's situation.

No, I'd prefer Ireland not to be in this situation at all. Greece brought it upon themselves - a Golden circle of greedy idiots and their supporters brought it upon us.

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

No.

And I'm not defending waste.

Yes you are. A RETIRED Taoiseach spends €1500 on equipment he could have got for half that (he shouldn't be getting any allowances AT ALL) and you're becoming all indignant because people are (rightfully) criticising this blatant waste of public funds.

Can I ask how you know what price he could have gotten it for since you don't know what computer equipment was bought?

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

Sorry when you replied about that one claim on computer equipment suggesting that too much was spent, I assumed you were talking about that one claim on computer equipment. My mistake

Indeed, one computer in all cases where all got the allowance.

Anyway, moving on...

I have yet to see one report/document from any retired TD that equates to a position of national importance.

Haughty, Fitzgerald, Ahern and Cowen besides others, have yet to produce one in their retirement years!
The only thing that they have produced in paperwork it seems is bills for submission to the state (you and I) to be paid!

kowloon

Biggins wrote: »

Now unless Mr Cowan is an avid gamer and needs a suped-up one, an excellent pc with software can be got for 500/600+.

€1,500

Himmm...

By the standards these guys go by that's pretty tame. Bertie might have one with a mahogany case with ivory inlay .

Zebra3

Freddie59 wrote: »

Given that he is a RETIRED Taoiseach, what would these issues of "national importance" be, precisely?

In Ahern's case, he needs those secretaries to organise his well-paid speeches abroad.

Obviously milking the taxpayer for a bloated salary and pension isn't enough.

So why not ensure you have state funded secretaries to run your nicely paid sideline when you're retired? :rolleyes:

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

Can I ask how you know what price he could have gotten it for since you don't know what computer equipment was bought?

Can I ask you why you're defending the payment of this wasteful "allowance" in the first instance? When €1500 out of the pension which he receives is a pittance?

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Can I ask how you know what price he could have gotten it for since you don't know what computer equipment was bought?

Can I ask you why you're defending the payment of this wasteful "allowance" in the first instance? When €1500 out of the pension which he receives is a pittance?

I don't think he should have gotten any expenses and I'm delighted to see that the FG/Lab Govt have stopped expenses for firmer Taoisigh.

However, I also dislike the mob mentality in the country recently. That includes the idea that anything and everything connected to politics is corrupt and toxic. You claimed that he could have gotten his computer equipment for half of what was spent without even knowing what was bought.

I think we would have a much better politucal system and much better politicians if people actually waited for evidence before crying wolf.

Pedro K

Mark200 wrote: »

We were talking about a very specific claim, not claims in general.

You would think that a very specific claim would require a specific receipt. Not in Ireland however.

€1500 in expenses for computing equipment for a retired taoiseach is wasteful. It is irrefutably wasteful. Especially considering the amount of money he is receiving in pensions anyway.


EDIT: Also, with regards to any suggestions that the money may have been spent on something different, the fact is, without receipts we just do not know. The expenses system enjoyed by our benevolent politicians is open to corruption, and if history has shown us anything, it's that many politicians have used it for their own personal gain.

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

I don't think he should have gotten any expenses and I'm delighted to see that the FG/Lab Govt have stopped expenses for firmer Taoisigh.

However, I also dislike the mob mentality in the country recently. That includes the idea that anything and everything connected to politics is corrupt and toxic. You claimed that he could have gotten his computer equipment for half of what was spent without even knowing what was bought.

I think we would have a much better politucal system and much better politicians if people actually waited for evidence before crying wolf.

He shouldn't have been 'buying it' in the first place. And the 'mob mentality' you quote is the rightful indignation by people at the squandering of scarce money on a person who's already bleeding the State dry in the form of a pension (which nobody should get until they're 65).

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

You claimed that he could have gotten his computer equipment for half of what was spent without even knowing what was bought.

You can buy a basic system and monitor from Dell for around €400. A HP printer in the high Street for under €30. A scanner for around €40. Need I go on?

Doc Ruby

Mark200 wrote: »

You claimed that he could have gotten his computer equipment for half of what was spent without even knowing what was bought.

He shouldn't be spending any money on computers.

He should be spending his allowance on cigarettes in prison.

Clear enough for you?

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

You claimed that he could have gotten his computer equipment for half of what was spent without even knowing what was bought.

You can buy a basic system and monitor from Dell for around €400. A HP printer in the high Street for under €30. A scanner for around €40. Need I go on?

I better get hopping to the shops. The price of computer equipment seems to have plummeted since this thread started!

My point still stands that you don't know what was bought. As I said already, I'm glad the expenses are no longer being granted. But that doesn't mean that you should just assume Cowen spent 3 times the cost of something when you don't even know what was bought in the first place. I do apologise though for letting the facts get in the way of a good story.

Mark200

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

You claimed that he could have gotten his computer equipment for half of what was spent without even knowing what was bought.

He shouldn't be spending any money on computers.

He should be spending his allowance on cigarettes in prison.

Clear enough for you?

Unfortunately in Ireland we can only lock up people who have broken the law. Weird system, I know

Liam Byrne

Ahern probably needs 5 times as many secretaries since any letter he writes will have 5 different and contradictory versions.

Where the f**k is that tribunal report, anyway ? It's heading towards 3 years late at this stage!

Doc Ruby

Mark200 wrote: »

Unfortunately in Ireland we can only lock up people who have broken the law. Weird system, I know

Unless they happen to be politicians and they get a tribunal instead of a day in court. 7/10 for the sarcasm though, good effort.

Mark200

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Unfortunately in Ireland we can only lock up people who have broken the law. Weird system, I know

Unless they happen to be politicians and they get a tribunal instead of a day in court. 7/10 for the sarcasm though, good effort.

Well in the case of Michael Lowry, his tribunal report was sent to the DPP. As mentioned above, we are still waiting on a full report on Bertie.

I'm not sure what crimes you think Cowen committed.

The_Thing

I can't decide who's worse - Bertie Ahern or the God-damned morons who pay to listen to him blabber on and on.

Doc Ruby

Mark200 wrote: »

Well in the case of Michael Lowry, his tribunal report was sent to the DPP.

How much time did he spend behind bars?

Mark200 wrote: »

As mentioned above, we are still waiting on a full report on Bertie.

We shouldn't be waiting on a report, we should be waiting on a verdict. You really don't know how things work in this country, do you, despite the heavy handed sarcasm. So let me give you the readers digest version.

Politicians set up the tribunal system to hand off crimes and corruption too extreme to be otherwise swept under the carpet to give the public the impression that something was being done. They are a political tool and a fine payday for the legal profession, nothing more.

Mark200 wrote: »

I'm not sure what crimes you think Cowen committed.

I'd be a lot happier if the department of justice came back with an answer for that one. Mind you if incompetence and stupidity were crimes he'd be languishing in mountjoy where he belongs right now.

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

I better get hopping to the shops. The price of computer equipment seems to have plummeted since this thread started!

You seem to be fairly out of touch across the board:

http://www.dell.com/ie/p/inspiron-desktops#! (add €70 for a monitor)

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9040418/Trail/searchtext%3EPRINTER.htm (heck, the scanner is even built into this one!).

So, as pointed out, nice try with the sarcasm, but it doesn't cover up the sheer lunacy of this "scheme". With the country crumbling around us.

gigino

What amazes me is how Berties Aherns pension and perks is actually more than the serving Prime Minister of the UK gets for actually working, and being on call 24/7. Cameron gets a salary of £ 142,500 as p.m., and he will be a potential terrorist target for the rest of his life, unable to wander around streets by himself.
We - a little country the population size of a decent city abroad - pay some people here for not working nearly as much as leaders abroad get for working. Look at young Mary Coughlan, on a pension of 140,000 a year, after helping ff mess up the country. And the troika are lending this country the money to pay these people - Ahern, Cowen, Coughlan - that.

must of had them working on his totally evil plan% of Irish land!
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ahernlinked-firm-wants-coillte-broken-up-and-sold-2821122.html

works out about 1,000 euro an acre

no joke btw!!

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

I better get hopping to the shops. The price of computer equipment seems to have plummeted since this thread started!

You seem to be fairly out of touch across the board:

http://www.dell.com/ie/p/inspiron-desktops#! (add €70 for a monitor)

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9040418/Trail/searchtext%3EPRINTER.htm (heck, the scanner is even built into this one!).

So, as pointed out, nice try with the sarcasm, but it doesn't cover up the sheer lunacy of this "scheme". With the country crumbling around us.

My point, still,is that you don't know what was bought.

Perhaps two computers were bought? One for him and one for his secretary. Yes he shouldn't have been getting expenses blah blah blah but that's not the point. You don't know what was bought so you can not reasonably say that he spent more money on something than it cost.

For all you know he could have gotten an expensive Mac because he was told that they're more reliable and last longer and therefore would save the taxpayer money in the long term. Probably not, but you don't know the facts of this claim so it'd be nice if you could stop pretending you did.

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

I better get hopping to the shops. The price of computer equipment seems to have plummeted since this thread started!

You seem to be fairly out of touch across the board:

http://www.dell.com/ie/p/inspiron-desktops#! (add €70 for a monitor)

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9040418/Trail/searchtext%3EPRINTER.htm (heck, the scanner is even built into this one!).

So, as pointed out, nice try with the sarcasm, but it doesn't cover up the sheer lunacy of this "scheme". With the country crumbling around us.

My point, still,is that you don't know what was bought.

Perhaps two computers were bought? One for him and one for his secretary. Yes he shouldn't have been getting expenses blah blah blah but that's not the point. You don't know what was bought so you can not reasonably say that he spent more money on something than it cost.

For all you know he could have gotten an expensive Mac because he was told that they're more reliable and last longer and therefore would save the taxpayer money in the long term. Probably not, but you don't know the facts of this claim so it'd be nice if you could stop pretending you did.

eire.man

Mark200 wrote: »

Biggins wrote: »

Mr Cowen got almost €1,500 to buy computer equipment since the scheme started.

Now unless Mr Cowan is an avid gamer and needs a suped-up one, an excellent pc with software can be got for 500/600+.

€1,500

Himmm...

What about a printer/photocopier, detective?

€100 for a daycent enough printer/copier

your point was??

Mark200

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Well in the case of Michael Lowry, his tribunal report was sent to the DPP.

How much time did he spend behind bars?

Mark200 wrote: »

As mentioned above, we are still waiting on a full report on Bertie.

We shouldn't be waiting on a report, we should be waiting on a verdict. You really don't know how things work in this country, do you, despite the heavy handed sarcasm. So let me give you the readers digest version.

Politicians set up the tribunal system to hand off crimes and corruption too extreme to be otherwise swept under the carpet to give the public the impression that something was being done. They are a political tool and a fine payday for the legal profession, nothing more.

Mark200 wrote: »

I'm not sure what crimes you think Cowen committed.

I'd be a lot happier if the department of justice came back with an answer for that one. Mind you if incompetence and stupidity were crimes he'd be languishing in mountjoy where he belongs right now.

Lowry - If the file was given to the DPP then they're probably either still investigating, or they found they could not charge him with anything.

What crimes would you like the Dept of Justice to investigate Cowen for? Corruption? Speeding tickets? Selling alcohol to minors? Or are you just desperate to apply the label of 'criminal' to a politician you don't like?

Mark200

eire.man wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

Biggins wrote: »

Mr Cowen got almost €1,500 to buy computer equipment since the scheme started.

Now unless Mr Cowan is an avid gamer and needs a suped-up one, an excellent pc with software can be got for 500/600+.

€1,500

Himmm...

What about a printer/photocopier, detective?

€100 for a daycent enough printer/copier

your point was??

See the rest of the thread. No one knows the facts of the claim so it'd be nice if they didn't act like they did

Zebra3

Mark200 wrote: »

What crimes would you like the Dept of Justice to investigate Cowen for? Corruption? Speeding tickets? Selling alcohol to minors? Or are you just desperate to apply the label of 'criminal' to a politician you don't like?

Treason.

Mark200

Zebra3 wrote: »

Treason.

"treason shall consist only in levying war against the State, or assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt."

I don't think he can be convicted of any of that.

Freddie59

Mark200 wrote: »

Yes he shouldn't have been getting expenses blah blah blah but that's not the point.

This is PRECISELY the point. One you've been dodging throughout the thread in your obvious rush to defend it. I - and others - are merely presenting the alternatives as they would appear to normal people (myself included) who operate on a budget throughout their lives.

Something these people seem to know little about. Are these more 'unvouched' expenses, as "computer equipment" is a very broad term?;)

Vanderbilt

Mark200 wrote: »

"treason shall consist only in levying war against the State, or assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt."

I don't think he can be convicted of any of that.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/treason

treason

Pronunciation: /ˈtriːz(ə)n/
noun
(also high treason) [mass noun] the crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government:
they were convicted of treason
the action of betraying someone or something:
doubt is the ultimate treason against faith
(petty treason) historical the crime of murdering someone to whom the murderer owed allegiance, such as a master or husband.

Mark200

Freddie59 wrote: »

This is PRECISELY the point. One you've been dodging throughout the thread in your obvious rush to defend it. I - and others - are merely presenting the alternatives as they would appear to normal people (myself included) who operate on a budget throughout their lives.

Something these people seem to know little about. Are these more 'unvouched' expenses, as "computer equipment" is a very broad term?;)

If all you were doing was saying that he shouldn't be getting expenses, then you wouldn't have been quoting me the prices of computers, printers and scanners.

Vanderbilt wrote: »

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/treason

treason

Pronunciation: /ˈtriːz(ə)n/
noun
(also high treason) [mass noun] the crime of betraying one’s country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government:
they were convicted of treason
the action of betraying someone or something:
doubt is the ultimate treason against faith
(petty treason) historical the crime of murdering someone to whom the murderer owed allegiance, such as a master or husband.

I admit I'm no legal expert, but I think the Constitution of Ireland has a stronger legal weighting than the Oxford dictionary.

Vanderbilt

Mark200 wrote: »

If all you were doing was saying that he shouldn't be getting expenses, then you wouldn't have been quoting me the prices of computers, printers and scanners.



I admit I'm no legal expert, but I think the Constitution of Ireland has a stronger legal weighting than the Oxford dictionary.

You don't need to be a constitutional lawyer to understand the accepted definition of treason in the English language.

Its legal interpretation in a Constitution will vary.

Mark200

Vanderbilt wrote: »

You don't need to be a constitutional lawyer to understand the accepted definition of treason in the English language.

Its legal interpretation in a Constitution will vary.

The accepted definition of a word in the English language is irrelevant if it has already been well defined in legal language.

The Irish Constitution clearly defines treason. That's the only definition that counts if you want to convict someone of treason under Irish law.

Leftist

Doesn't matter, the Fianna failers, aka the country people will still vote them back in when the dust settles.

ThinkAboutIt

Bertie is the man. Everyone is just jealous in my opinion.

Biggins

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

Bertie is the man. Everyone is just jealous in my opinion.

If you are that purposely naive, ye deserve each other.

suicide_circus

gigino wrote: »

What amazes me is how Berties Aherns pension and perks is actually more than the serving Prime Minister of the UK gets for actually working, and being on call 24/7. Cameron gets a salary of £ 142,500 as p.m., and he will be a potential terrorist target for the rest of his life, unable to wander around streets by himself.
We - a little country the population size of a decent city abroad - pay some people here for not working nearly as much as leaders abroad get for working. Look at young Mary Coughlan, on a pension of 140,000 a year, after helping ff mess up the country. And the troika are lending this country the money to pay these people - Ahern, Cowen, Coughlan - that.

The levels of pay, pensions and perks which politicians and
civil servants have seen fit to award themselves at the tax payers expense is frightening. The ruling and administrative classes see the tax payer as a to milked for their gain. Bertie Ahern and his ilk who know how to screw the system (ie you and me) to the last drop, are nothing less than scum. The sooner they swing from the lamp posts which line our main thoroughfares, the better.

Zebra3

Mark200 wrote: »

"treason shall consist only in levying war against the State, or assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt."

I don't think he can be convicted of any of that.

Given that Irish state, and its people, are now victims of an undeclared econmic war on them by the financial terrorists of the IMF/ECB/EU, it's well worth a shot, given the serious nature of the crimes.

The blanket bank guarantee shopuld also all those involved being charged with theft.

Mark200

Zebra3 wrote: »

Mark200 wrote: »

"treason shall consist only in levying war against the State, or assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt."

I don't think he can be convicted of any of that.

Given that Irish state, and its people, are now victims of an undeclared econmic war on them by the financial terrorists of the IMF/ECB/EU, it's well worth a shot, given the serious nature of the crimes.

The blanket bank guarantee shopuld also all those involved being charged with theft.

I hope you realise how ridiculous that sounds.

ThinkAboutIt

We'd all love to have Berties life, money and comfort. Hes given himself a great life. I'm sure he couldn't care less about what a few people on Boards think about him.

Leftist

Zebra3 wrote: »

Given that Irish state, and its people, are now victims of an undeclared econmic war on them by the financial terrorists of the IMF/ECB/EU, it's well worth a shot, given the serious nature of the crimes.

The blanket bank guarantee shopuld also all those involved being charged with theft.

Brainwashed.

it's never our fault.

They're taking our freedom.

play another rebel song.