P.T. Anderson's "The Master" (2012)

johnny_ultimate

Film hasn't done too badly here at all TBH: http://www.thisisirishfilm.ie/box_office/ Better per screen average than Madagascar 3, and on par with Argo. Fourteen screens around the country (although probably around 10 of them are in Dublin :rolleyes:) is far, far more than most films of this type receive. We can grumble and moan, but being perfectly honest if your cinema is showing this at all - even if it's just a screening or two a day - that's better than nothing, especially facing competition from a box office machine such as Twilight.

Meanwhile, Amour opened in a frankly insulting two screens. That is a ****ing outrage for the latest film from perhaps Europe's single-most acclaimed director.

On a completely different note, forgot to mention Pierce Brosnan was supposedly in the same screening of this I was at (according to our friend who was waiting outside). Kinda want to know what he thought of it.

Mickeroo

Didn't even know this was out yet, unlikely i'll et to see it on the big screen.

Neeson

I suppose the film was OK but it was terribly bland and in no way entertaining. I suppose not all films are happy films but that just has to be the worst 2.5 hours I've spent in a cinema. I actually nearly fell asleep a few times and I wouldn't have missed much if I took a half-hour nap in between.

LuckyLloyd

Though it was amazing. Gorgeously shot with two tremendous performances. Scientology is in play here - but the film is more generally about the power of raw charisma and how a post war landscape opens up certain opportunities. I didn't find the pace difficult at all, but there were numerous walkouts and fidgeting.

I'd go and see it again without question.

Da Shins Kelly

It makes me sad that there are people who get to see it and walked out, and I don't get to see it at all.

Ranelite

Neeson wrote: »

I suppose the film was OK but it was terribly bland and in no way entertaining. I suppose not all films are happy films but that just has to be the worst 2.5 hours I've spent in a cinema. I actually nearly fell asleep a few times and I wouldn't have missed much if I took a half-hour nap in between.

I had a similar experience.... Phoenix was brilliant - transformed even. However, the film itself is too drawn out.

Handsome Bob

I found the film to be very gruelling and punishing. By the final 30 minutes I was willing it to end, whether that was the intention I do not know so I'm not sure what to make of it just yet.

Having said that the film has some of the best scenes of the year, I particularly enjoyed the first processing scene between Lancaster and Freddy. Absolutely amazing stuff from Phoenix and Hoffman.

johnny_ultimate

Definitely think it's intentionally grueling, for better or worse. The character battles in the film are hard fought and subtle, and the film needs the space to let those conflicts breathe. Take that brilliant centerpiece processing scene mentioned above - the amount of drama and insight in that scene, and all it really is is ten-fifteen minutes of characters talking (plus a flashback for good measure). The repetition of Dodd's process is punishing for both Freddie and the audience - how it should be.

The most challenging section of the film is definitely around the eighty-ninety minute mark, just prior to

the book launch and motorocycle exodus

. What we learn about the characters in these segments is vital leading up to the resolution, though - the scene of Adams and Hoffman in the mirror, for example.

Can understand the perspective of anyone who thought it was dull or infuriating. Personally I did appreciate the challenge and am looking forward to watching it again in a few months to unpack Anderson's less obvious tricks.

Kinski

IMO, the "challenge" of watching this film is being overstated a little. Yes, it is long, and there were a few walkouts during the screening I attended too, but despite the slow pace and lack of action I was thoroughly absorbed. I also found it a quite funny film, for what it's worth...

johnny_ultimate

Yes, it is quite amusing indeed, especially the opening sequence which might be the least flattering protagonist introduction imaginable

It's safe to say that a big problem with films like this or The Tree of Life is that more casual audiences will probably be caught off guard. Those of us familiar with PT Anderson's style will of course be aware of what to generally expect - even if it's extremely unrushed and reflective even by his standards (There Will Be Blood did, in contrast, have a rather high body count). Getting caught off guard can be a good thing, but hopefully an audience with general expectations that they're letting themselves in for something non-traditional and uniquely paced will be primed to get the most out of the experience.

e_e

Put me in the camp who wasn't bored by a single second of it. It seemed that the film was always just a few minutes away from an amusing outburst (the Jail scene in particular was f'in hilarious) or disturbing revelation about Freddie. Not a wasted moment and I'd go so far as calling it one of the more entertaining that I've seen all year. It's also exciting to see a relatively mainstream film that's this unique and adventurous.

stealinhorses

Definitely a very strong film, with massive performances from Phoenix and Hoffman.

However, I did feel it lacked a final punch to it, something drastic a la "There Will Be Blood".

Some parts I didn't get at all, and would have to rewatch the film to fully understand. For example -

the scene where all women in the room gradually become naked. Also, all scenes with songs and references to Doris. Just couldn't really gauge the impact of her character on Freddie in comparison with Dodd's influence on his life after the war.

Definitely up for a re-watch in a few months.

Chancer3001

saw it tonight. Id give it 1/10 The one being for Phoenix's amazing acting job.

But, its a terribly drawn out story, very slowly paced, nothing concrete to keep the attention, numerous walkouts again and overall is just a dull film.

Wouldnt go to see it again if you payed me

fruvai

Chancer3001 wrote: »

saw it tonight. Id give it 1/10 The one being for Phoenix's amazing acting job.

But, its a terribly drawn out story, very slowly paced, nothing concrete to keep the attention, numerous walkouts again and overall is just a dull film.

Wouldnt go to see it again if you payed me

It can't be that bad - what about the cinematography and the score?

Neeson

fruvai wrote: »

It can't be that bad - what about the cinematography and the score?

I'd agree about it being drawn out and the performance being good, etc.

I suppose the cinematography might have been good, I couldn't tell you. But as a man going to a film and wanting to be entertained, I wasn't. It doesn't have to be a happy film with a nice little ending to be entertaining. It doesn't have to have a really simple story either. But something that by the end of the film you know pretty much most of what was going on.

For this show you're still sitting there after two hours waiting for something significant to happen. You just want it to finish because you know nothing of note is going to happen between this point and the end.

Probably in the top 3 or 4 worst film I've seen in the past decade. A chick flick would be a better watch. Even if it had a storyline similar to dozens of other films.

e_e

Neeson wrote: »

But something that by the end of the film you know pretty much most of what was going on.

What was so confusing to you about it? It's a pretty disorienting experience alright (much to the film's credit imo) but I think narratively it's very straightforward.

johnny_ultimate

Hyperbolic accusations like '1/10' IMO should be reserved for films that don't even have the decency to be shot in focus, like The Expendables 2

But yes, while individual scenes in The Master are puzzling and left up to the viewer to decipher - a trait which should only be encouraged in a world where poorly written exposition force-feeds us explanations to an almost condescending level - the story is at its core just two characters engaged in a strange and dynamic power struggle, full of mini-defeats and mini-victories. Underneath all the unconventional pacing and peculiar tangents, the story is simple and engaging.

Someone above mentioned the score. After four major films scored by Greenwood I still am unsure what to think of his very particular style. His collaborations with Anderson have clearly been the most fruitful - definitely gelling with the director's weird, distinctive sense of storytelling. But the whole discordant music trick wore much thinner with Norwegian Wood, actively damaging the film if anything, and I wonder if he's basically a one-trick pony? Still, some very memorable and haunting compositions in The Master, particularly the one featured prominently in the trailers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SwGs96-s_I

Da Shins Kelly

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Someone above mentioned the score. After four major films scored by Greenwood I still am unsure what to think of his very particular style. His collaborations with Anderson have clearly been the most fruitful - definitely gelling with the director's weird, distinctive sense of storytelling. But the whole discordant music trick wore much thinner with Norwegian Wood, actively damaging the film if anything, and I wonder if he's basically a one-trick pony? Still, some very memorable and haunting compositions in The Master, particularly the one featured prominently in the trailers.

I've only heard the music on the trailers, and I thought it sounded great. I loved the music on There Will Be Blood too. It's kind of unsettling music, but it still compliments the film, rather than seeming intrusive. I haven't heard his other compositions, but his partnership with Anderson seems pretty perfect.

e_e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hp-4pkCfg0

This may be my favorite piece of film music ever.

Cactus Colm

Saw this yesterday morning in Cineworld. Not a big crowd there, and didn't notice any walkouts.

Thought it was absolutely brilliant, the interactions between Phoenix and Hoffman were captivating. Amy Ryan was great in it too.

Table Top Joe

Ive been waiting to see P.T Andersons new movie since the credits rolled on "There Will Be Blood" a few years back,absolutely loved it......couldnt believe my luck when Philip Seymour Hoffman(arguably the best actor on earth at the moment imo)was in the new one,to say i was looking forward to it would be putting it mildly........


It was.....ok,probably the most disappointing movie ive seen in a long time,to be fair the cast is excellent(ive never liked Phoenix but hes amazing in it,remarkable performance)but sweet Jesus i was bored,i was dying for it to be over by the end,the movie just never really takes off,major let down for me

fruvai

Cactus Colm wrote: »

Saw this yesterday morning in Cineworld. Not a big crowd there, and didn't notice any walkouts.

Thought it was absolutely brilliant, the interactions between Phoenix and Hoffman were captivating. Amy Ryan was great in it too.

You mean Amy Adams

Amirani

I enjoyed it. The direction was great and some of the acting performances were incredible. It only took 15 minutes for me to decide that Phoenix is deserving of Best Actor at the Oscars.

I do feel though that the film could have ended sooner. -

I'm not sure the venture to England was entirely necessary. I don't think the film would've suffered much if it had ended with the motorbike scene or perhaps Freddy's return to Massachusetts. I feel that at this point he had probably already rejected The Cause and the later ultimatum was perhaps redundant.

Miguel_Sanchez

NiallSparky wrote: »

I do feel though that the film could have ended sooner. -

I'm not sure the venture to England was entirely necessary. I don't think the film would've suffered much if it had ended with the motorbike scene or perhaps Freddy's return to Massachusetts. I feel that at this point he had probably already rejected The Cause and the later ultimatum was perhaps redundant.

The more I think about the end the more I like it.

It showed that the two men although going their separate ways had an undeniable attraction to each other which both of them wished could have transcended the different paths they were on but hadn't.

krudler

Saw it earlier, its certainly top notch acting wise, Phoenix and Hoffman being the obvious standouts but Amy Adams impressed as well. It's strangely engrossing even though there's no real standard narrative and just meanders along. Definitely thought it was about 20 minutes too long and its very episodic, going from captivating in the scenes where Hoffman is questioning Phoenix and then drawn out in a lot of others. Its an odd fish really, and something you'd need to be in the frame of mind to watch, but the acting and cinematography are excellent. The screen I saw it on was pretty big surprisingly, I sat a bit too close to the screen as well as I hadnt been in that one before so I was going to move but didnt and that added to it.

krudler

I found it odd the scene in the first trailer wasnt in the film either, where Phoenix is trying to recollect what happened and the guy talking to him is asking him questions.

Miguel_Sanchez

krudler wrote: »

I found it odd the scene in the first trailer wasnt in the film either, where Phoenix is trying to recollect what happened and the guy talking to him is asking him questions.

There's often bits in trailers that don't make it into the final cut. Especially when the trailer often is out long before they've actually locked the final cut of the film.

With a film like this I'm sure there's a wealth of scenes that ended up not making it for a variety of reasons. The deleted scenes selection on the Blu-Ray could prove to be very interesting.

johnny_ultimate

The film definitely needed the final 'confrontation' between the two opposing forces (and probably equally importance Adams' character was in attendance too). Personally wouldn't have been satisfied if we didn't see Hoffman again after the desert sequence (even though that is one of the film's best moments) - we need to see both of them part ways after their respective realisations.

The film was voted film of the year in Sight & Sounds annual critics poll, by the way, ahead of Tabu and Amour, in case anyone is interested in meaningless accolades . Surprised since the magazine's official review was mildly frosty - positive yet critical - but I guess it was well beloved by critics on the whole despite the significant minority of non-fans.

Handsome Bob

I will give it this, the film does linger in the mind. The relationship between the two main characters is fascinating and the reason why is because Hoffman's character knows that his beliefs are bull**** (evident by him snapping when questioned, and not even knowing his own work when asked about it). Phoenix's character resists these teachings as he also knows that it's all bull****, but he is still drawn to Hoffman as they are kindred spirits. This is even more evident by Hoffman shedding tears in their final scene and Phoenix repeating the processing with that woman at the end.

roguey

Does anyone know when the IFI will have the 70mm print of The Master? I've yet to go see it, but I might hold out for the 70mm print if its not too far away.

Corholio

Saw it tonight and while I can see some people labelling it boring etc, I found it fascinating in all aspects. Phoenix gives a performance not many actors in the last few years could touch. The relationship between Hoffman and him is outstanding and intriguing. Anderson really does have his own style, and to be honest I'd go to see any film he ever puts out such is my admiration for the way he puts things on screen. The first

processing

scene is a triumph in film making and the back and forward between the main actors is just remarkable. It is slow and it does have some slightly weird scenes, but I don't think anything too weird outside the context of the film.

I read that this was the first film that Anderson didn't work with his usual cinematographer, yet it has some of the most interestingly framed shots of any film this year. The 'field' and 'desert' come to mind.

On my phone so will keep this brief. Finially got a chance to see this yesterday and loved every minute of it. Couldn't tear my eyes off the screen for a second and spent the last half hour willing it to dnd so i could go for a pee as there was no way I was going to risk missing even a second.

A lot of people seem to think that the film is a little too long, that its a gruelling watch but personally I think an extra 30 minutes would have been a god send as I really want to see more of the interaction between two of the most fascinating creations of cinema. I'm assuming that next years Oscar for best male performance is going to be shared by both men as no other performance this year comes close to marching the intensity and conviction of Hoffman and Phoenix.

Visually the film was beautiful though much of the effect was list due to the film screening in the smallest screen and being ever so slightly out of focus. There was also quite a bit of damage to the print, nothing too major but a lot of dirt was evident. Normally I'd expect a little wear and tear after being on release so long but after seeing Skyfall the night before I hoped for more considering that Skyfall looked absolutely gorgeous, I was actually shocked by how jaw droppingly pretty it was.

Kinski

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm assuming that next years Oscar for best male performance is going to be shared by both men as no other performance this year comes close to marching the intensity and conviction of Hoffman and Phoenix.

Hoffman's role would be classed as a supporting one. Anyhow, Daniel Day-Lewis will be winning Best Actor for Lincoln (or I'll eat my stovepipe hat.)

Handsome Bob

Wouldn't rule out Jackman either, it's a competitive year for best actor.

Da Shins Kelly

Didn't Joaquin Phoenix say something about the Oscars being a load of bullsh*t or something (which is kinda true, in fairness)? That may have ended any chance he had.

Da Shins Kelly

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Didn't Joaquin Phoenix say something about the Oscars being a load of bullsh*t or something (which is kinda true, in fairness)? That may have ended any chance he had.

Anderson was also less than complimentary toward them but there's no way they can over look the film.

Da Shins Kelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Anderson was also less than complimentary toward them but there's no way they can over look the film.

They won't completely overlook it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it snubbed somewhere.

tunguska

Wanted to go see this at the weekend and its gone already from nearly every cinema in town. Playing in the lighthouse at a ridiculous time in the afternoon, no evening shows. And thats about it. Really wanted to see this on the big screen and not on dvd.

Sad Professor

The IFI are planning to show the film in 70mm at a TBA date. But it will probably be in the new year at even more inconvenient times.

spiritcrusher

Finally got to see this today and I think I enjoyed it. I think I enjoyed it a lot actually but I can't really explain why. I sort of left the cinema quite confused about what exactly I'd just seen but it's really stuck with me and the more I think back on the film the more fascinated by it I am. The acting was just phenomenal, the two main characters were just so completely believable throughout all their oddities and outrageous moments.

Seemed to me like there are clues Hoffman's character and motivations scattered among the stories he tells, particularly the dragon story early on, which I'm guessing was a metaphor for what he wanted the relationship between himself and Freddy to become. I'm sure there are plenty more little bits to be picked up on with another viewing, like what was the meaning of the Doris storyline, and what clicked with Freddy when he realised Dodd hadn't a clue what he was doing?

Some of the scenes were completely mesmerizing. Obviously the first processing scene is a highlight but even before that there was one really long take I loved where Phoenix, working as a photographer, antagonised a customer and ended up in a scuffle with him. The camera didn't shift focus or cut away from Phoenix the entire time. Long takes really aren't used enough any more.

That being said it was tough work to get through. I was never bored and never explicitly wanted it to end but when the end came it was a bit of a relief.

Also I can totally understand why people wouldn't like it, it's very wishy-washy with not much explained and no real plot. But at the same time I find it strange that people went into this expecting to just be "entertained". I mean, obviously a film needs to be entertaining on some level but Anderson hasn't really done a popcorn muncher since Boogie Nights.

Anyway, I'm probably not being very clear. I watched Synechoche, New York last night and this today so trying to unravel both has me head a bit fuzzled

e_e

Sad Professor wrote: »

The IFI are planning to show the film in 70mm at a TBA date. But it will probably be in the new year at even more inconvenient times.

Still TBA unfortunately.

Fysh

Finally got a chance to see this today and enjoyed it a lot, but it definitely continues the trend of 2012 films being about half an hour too long and running out of steam in the 3rd act.

I suspect that if someone tightens up everything after the arrest scene it would sort out the pacing; as it stands the narrative just sort of peters out at the end (which may be a deliberate effort to show Freddy's character development, but still gives us a finale that limps to a conclusion). Overall, though, it was an engaging and tremendously-acted film.

Rabidlamb

Beautifully acted, always compelling but lacking any real narrative structure.

I'd waited patiently for this movie since the peerless TWBB.
Anderson has lost none of his talent to frame a scene, the familiar discordant strings of Greenwood makes you feel on familiar ground early on.
What we get are a series of wonderfully acted & scripted scenes that don't really tie together.
Emotions & reactions seem to jump abruptly from one cut to the next so it's hard to find a baseline for the characters.

Perhaps this was too much of a labour of love for Anderson, he may have got too involved in the minute details & lost the bigger picture.
Phoenix has never been as compelling & unhinged, there's real craft involved.
Ultimately, I was hoping for & expecting more for the viewer.

Overall, 3/5

Da Shins Kelly

I thought it was brilliant. I couldn't stop thinking about it after I watched it.

pinksoir

It's oddly captivating, and the score is absolutely superb.

fisgon

Very very disappointing. I was thoroughly disengaged for the majority of the film, had no sympathy for or connection to any of the characters, and really missed some kind of narrative drive. There was almost no go-forward with the story, almost no progression of any kind. Near the end

Freddy just ends up beating up another of the master's critics,

just as he had done an hour before, as if they had run out of ideas

The exposé of how charismatic people can convince a group of followers that their nonsense is true was interesting, but could have been far more so. Instead the film just drags on and runs out of steam, and loses any sense of coherence near the end. I simply didn't care about anyone in this film, or anything that happened to them. That, to me, is its great failure.

Custardpi

Sad Professor wrote: »

The IFI are planning to show the film in 70mm at a TBA date. But it will probably be in the new year at even more inconvenient times.

Does anyone know if they did eventually screen the 70mm version? I kept looking at their site but I may have missed it. Will be raging if they've abandoned the idea as I didn't go to see the normal version in the cinema.

Renn

99.99% sure they didn't screen the 70mm version. I wasn't banking on them screening it so just went to the Lighthouse instead.

Custardpi

Damn, more fool me I guess. Will have to look for it on DVD.

johnny_ultimate

I contacted them about the 70mm screening before Christmas and they got back to me around a month later. They still couldn't confirm anything, just saying it would be announced on their social networks if so.

Wouldn't get my hopes up TBH. And they've completely missed their acceptable window of opportunity if it does show up eventually. I'd just wager the print - and there only seems to be one knocking around - has been damaged somewhere along the line.