Overrated rappers

conor.hogan.2

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Hes easily the most overrated rapper of all time.

No that is Biggie - he had like 3 albums? Ok 1 while alive and 3 actual ones posthumously.

I love beats myself but most of the time it just covers over a bad artist, so they can hide behind the production.

Bobby Baccala

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

No that is Biggie - he had like 3 albums?

Neither of them are the most over rated of all time lads, tupac was quality but not as good as he was made out to be and biggie was the most dominant rapper in new york in his prime so he can't be called over rated but he isn't under rated either.
if anyone is the most over rated rapper of all time it's dr dre, lad didn't even write his own lyrics for his most successful albums.

pragmatic1

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

No that is Biggie - he had like 3 albums? Ok 1 while alive and 3 actual ones posthumously.

I love beats myself but most of the time it just covers over a bad artist, so they can hide behind the production.

Hip hop started with the beats. In most cases a good beat can cover up for an average MC, but its very hard even for an MC like Nas to save a song if the beat is trash.

I think Biggie was more consistent with his music than 2pac, but hes also overrated. I'd put Jay-Z ahead of both of them.

conor.hogan.2

Well yes Dre did not write any of his lyrics and had to have people show him how to rap, meaning there are several leaked tracks of eminem and others rapping on the beat with the lyrics he later used.

Eazy-E did not write a good portion of his lyrics either - so I do not think its that big of a deal especially for someone like Dre who was clearly a producer who happened to rap to great success.

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Hip hop started with the beats. In most cases a good beat can cover up for an average MC, but its very hard even for an MC like Nas to save a song if the beat is trash.

Anyway rapping is rapping it is an element and tupacs beats were good for their time as someone else pointed out above plus lots of his songs were remixed later if you like beats.

I think Biggie was more consistent with his music than 2pac, but hes also overrated. I'd put Jay-Z ahead of both of them.

I know how it started but if a rapper does not align himself with a producer (like Diddy in Bigs case) or even like Eric B, Polo etc then I think the rapper should be judged on his rapping not by the fact they get overhyped thanks to good production.

Hard not to be consistent when you only have like 50 songs and they all cover about 5 topics (if even)

Still a great rapper though.

Bobby Baccala

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Hip hop started with the beats. In most cases a good beat can cover up for an average MC, but its very hard even for an MC like Nas to save a song if the beat is trash.

I think Biggie was more consistent with his music than 2pac, but hes also overrated. I'd put Jay-Z ahead of both of them.

Now jay z is over rated, nowhere near as good as tupac or biggie in my opinion.

Bobby Baccala

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Well yes Dre did not write any of his lyrics and had to have people show him how to rap, meaning there are several leaked tracks of eminem and others rapping on the beat with the lyrics he later used.

Eazy-E did not write a good portion of his lyrics either - so I do not think its that big of a deal especially for someone like Dre who was clearly a producer who happened to rap to great success.

Yeah cube wrote the majority of their lyrics for years and he is fairly under rated if you ask me but thats probably because i prefer cube over any west coast rapper

conor.hogan.2

Ice cube is definitely up there but in fairness he is in a very small pool of good west coast rappers - but in hip-hop in general he rates high but nowhere near where he should rate.

I would rank Jay-z over biggie - but both are good obviously.

I think an MC can ruin or make a beat.

Bobby Baccala

yeah without ice cube nwa would have been nothing, he wrote straight outta compton and that album itself put the westcoast on the map in the hip hop world but the same can be said for him if he never met dre, he would probably just be a nobody.

pragmatic1

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Well yes Dre did not write any of his lyrics and had to have people show him how to rap, meaning there are several leaked tracks of eminem and others rapping on the beat with the lyrics he later used.

Eazy-E did not write a good portion of his lyrics either - so I do not think its that big of a deal especially for someone like Dre who was clearly a producer who happened to rap to great success.



I know how it started but if a rapper does not align himself with a producer (like Diddy in Bigs case) or even like Eric B, Polo etc then I think the rapper should be judged on his rapping not by the fact they get overhyped thanks to good production.

Hard not to be consistent when you only have like 50 songs and they all cover about 5 topics (if even)

Still a great rapper though.

Oh I do judge a rapper on their ability to rap. I think chino xl and ras kass are absolutley sick. They just dont have an ear for music and thats one of the reasons why they're not big names.

Theres loads of people who I think are extremely talented when it comes to lyrics but I wouldnt want to buy one of their albums because they cant construct a song properly.

conor.hogan.2

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Oh I do judge a rapper on their ability to rap. I think chino xl and ras kass are absolutley sick. They just dont have an ear for music and thats one of the reasons why they're not big names.

Theres loads of people who I think are extremely talented when it comes to lyrics but I wouldnt want to buy one of their albums because they cant construct a song properly.

I think both Chino and Ras Kass can make songs, just that neither got any promotion or good beats and Chinos style is a little different to mosts. (minus razzy with the Goldyn child beat which was amazing)

Are you saying Tupac could not construct a song?
He always but the right emotion in and always had good structure and polish on his songs and he spent possibly the most time in a studio out of any rapper.

Not to mention his actual poetry, screenplay (being released in 2012 appaerently) and other writings.

pragmatic1

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Now jay z is over rated, nowhere near as good as tupac or biggie in my opinion.

Jay-Z is underrated if anything. Most of his work from reasonable doubt to the black album was quality. He has fallen off in the past few years though.

Bobby Baccala

yeah definitely over rated now, he used to be good but biggie was always bigger and better imo.

pragmatic1

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I think both Chino and Ras Kass can make songs, just that neither got any promotion or good beats and Chinos style is a little different to mosts. (minus razzy with the Goldyn child beat which was amazing)

Are you saying Tupac could not construct a song?
He always but the right emotion in and always had good structure and polish on his songs and he spent possibly the most time in a studio out of any rapper.

Not to mention his actual poetry, screenplay (being released in 2012 appaerently) and other writings.

No 2pac can make really good music. When he was on form he made some of the best hip hop around that time. Its just that all the great music he made gets bogged down by a lot of mediocre music that hes made.

conor.hogan.2

pragmatic1 wrote: »

No 2pac can make really good music. When he was on form he made some of the best hip hop around that time. Its just that all the great music he made gets bogged down by a lot of mediocre music that hes made.

I know it's your opinion, so it is subjective as is everyone (dis)likes and is up to you, but that said can you give examples of his bad songs?

Bobby Baccala

i hate all pac songs that eminem produced, I know strictly speaking it's not pacs fault theyre **** but em just used beats completely uncharacteristic of pac

conor.hogan.2

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

i hate all pac songs that eminem produced, I know strictly speaking it's not pacs fault theyre **** but em just used beats completely uncharacteristic of pac

Mostly agree there, the originals were better beat wise and even pitch and speed etc.

Loyal to the game is a good song on LTTG but Ghetto Gospel is all messed up but is much more known because of it.

The pacs life album was shocking - that should be struck from the record.

But there are some Tupac songs that go better with better beats - a fair few off the Dark side of the block remix album for example.

Mr. Rager

Anyone who rates Lil Wayne in the slightest should watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24GcORFEeCw

conor.hogan.2

Well he is on drugs, what was Drakes excuse?

Bobby Baccala

Lil wayne is horse shít! that wasn't a freestyle that was someone on heroin trying to speak, if you can't freestyle you're not a good rapper, end of!

Mr. Rager

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Well he is on drugs, what was Drakes excuse?

God I'm a Drake fan and even I agree, his freestyle was a shambles

conor.hogan.2

fjsanchez wrote: »

God I'm a Drake fan and even I agree, his freestyle was a shambles

Shambolic but what was worse was it clearly was not even a freestyle - if it is written down and/or read it is not a freestyle it doesn't have to be 100% on the spot but it does have to not be written down or read off a page/phone etc.

"thats when i say" is not a freestyle.

Mr. Rager

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Shambolic but what was worse was it clearly was not even a freestyle - if it is written down and/or read it is not a freestyle it doesn't have to be 100% on the spot but it does have to not be written down or read off a page/phone etc.

"thats when i say" is not a freestyle.

He used the first verse of one of his own songs, "Right Above It", for the first verse of the freestyle

conor.hogan.2

fjsanchez wrote: »

He used the first verse of one of his own songs, "Right Above It", for the first verse of the freestyle

Cheers - that means I definitely do not have to check out his music if that is a verse from a song of his.

So Drake is very very overated then.

Mr. Rager

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Cheers - that means I definitely do not have to check out his music if that is a verse from a song of his.

So Drake is very very overated then.

Well to be honest not a lot of his music (esp. on Take Care) is anyways like that. That's some of his more mainstream stuff.

pragmatic1

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I know it's your opinion, so it is subjective as is everyone (dis)likes and is up to you, but that said can you give examples of his bad songs?

Songs like military minds, street fame, made niggaz. Just trash. Most of the songs on his albums after he died also trash.

Da Shins Kelly

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

agreed, like it was said a few posts back its his ego/personality and his actions outside music that have really propelled into mega superstardom for me, as an mc he's very average but that doesnt mean the man doesnt make good music because we all know he does.:)

Yeah, it's all about the image with him these days. He's definitely got talent, but I wish he wasn't so caught up in himself.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

if you listen to his older stuff from power of the dollar album,mixtapes right up to say 04/05 with the beg for mercy album your opinion might change, ever since then its just been flashes of excellence here and there i.e co producing the documentary, small bit of the massacare, i get money etc but he's struggling these days big time.

I dunno, something about him just doesn't sit well with me.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

on cole, im a big fan but i think the man set the bar so high from his mixtapes the only way was down... cole world is my biggest letdown of 2011 but i reckon he will bounce back with the collab with lamar coming in 2012.

Cole seriously lacks charisma for me, and I don't find him particularly interesting. Like, he doesn't really draw me in and I've given him more than one chance.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

on drake agree 100 per cent, i like a few of his songs but as a rapper he's terrible.. i think he would fall into r'n'b and pop before he would hip hop.

Agreed.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

disagree here mate, i think em has succesfully progressed in his music through the recovery album his sound totally changed for me which i have to say i enjoyed... we arnt going to get the old em,jay,nas,50 etc etc back so we have to just move on times and circumstances change in their lives and it reflects in there music

but the marshall mathers lp is still one of my all time fav albums, love it start to finish but em is not capable (mind frame, maturity etc) to make an album like that again nor would he get away with it as much without any gear in him lol (joke).:D

I love that album too, and I know he's changed his sound and everything, but I don't think that automatically makes something good. I just don't think the music is good. I don't care about why he's angry this time or what he has to say. I think he's losing relevance in that way. The man is pretty much a pop culture icon at this stage and he doesn't really need to keep making music as his legend is pretty much intact, but he's gone from being an artist who really had something to say, to a guy who looks over-medicated and doesn't give a f*ck anymore. When he went away the first time, I think he should have just stayed away. His new stuff is doing his legacy no favours, for me.

conor.hogan.2

I was not a huge fan of the Makaveli Tupac but that was only part of his style, also yes he had bad songs but I think his good songs far outweigh his bad ones and the sheer volume on its own is pretty amazing.

He doesn't have a "just lose it" or a "candy shop" or any songs like that other artists have that are completely terrible and cringe worthy but neither did he just keep releasing monotonous music either.

After he died they released every single rough draft (regardless of whether it was worthy of release or not), and doubtless mess tracks and practice tracks etc which is hardly his fault.

-TI
-Wale

-50 Cent (overrated not bad in general, as in he is good but he should never have been on one of the most successful labels for this long considering the quality of music he has released after his first album)

-Rick Ross

-Snoop, come on outside dres album and doggystyle what has he done? He is not consistent at all, I love him and could listen to pretty much everything but thats more about his style than him as a rapper.

PrettyBoy

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

-Snoop, come on outside dres album and doggystyle what has he done? He is not consistent at all, I love him and could listen to pretty much everything but thats more about his style than him as a rapper.

I don't think many regard Snoop as one of the best rappers ever or anything, it's just that he's managed to stay relevant in Hip-Hop for the last 20 years and because of his unique, flamboyant image he is now extremely well known all over the world, easily one of the most recognisable recording artists ever (not just in Hip-Hop).

He isn't overrated IMO, no one I know would ever say he's one of the greatest lyricists but he's a true Hip-Hop legend. He's released a few decent albums since Doggystyle too - Tha Last Meal, R&G, The Blue Carpet Treatment and some songs on the Doggumentary are all worth a listen

pragmatic1

PrettyBoy wrote: »

I don't think many regard Snoop as one of the best rappers ever or anything, it's just that he's managed to stay relevant in Hip-Hop for the last 20 years and because of his unique, flamboyant image he is now extremely well known all over the world, easily one of the most recognisable recording artists ever (not just in Hip-Hop).

He isn't overrated IMO, no one I know would ever say he's one of the greatest lyricists but he's a true Hip-Hop legend. He's released a few decent albums since Doggystyle too - Tha Last Meal, R&G, The Blue Carpet Treatment and some songs on the Doggumentary are all worth a listen

Yeah the last meal is a pretty solid album. Probably my favourite after doggystyle. The eastsidaz first album is quality too.

Hugh Cream

snoops catalogue is not great but he is not over rated, at all.

conor.hogan.2

I think he is overrated as in he has much more success than he should have based on his rapping ability.
Ye he is still relevant (somewhat) after 20 years but so are many people.

Hugh Cream

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I think he is overrated as in he has much more success than he should have based on his rapping ability.
Ye he is still relevant (somewhat) after 20 years but so are many people.

if your relevant after 20 years your not over rated.
i dont understand why people always concentrate on an artists worst work, and claim thats as good as that artist is.
snoops best work is on par or more than likely better than the best work of your favorite rapper.
he deserves credit for his best work, and deserves to be judged on that work.

Bobby Baccala

Hugh Cream wrote: »

if your relevant after 20 years your not over rated.
i dont understand why people always concentrate on an artists worst work, and claim thats as good as that artist is.
snoops best work is on par or more than likely better than the best work of your favorite rapper.
he deserves credit for his best work, and deserves to be judged on that work.

Very true, even his writing skills for dre were better than anything em or jay or DOC ever wrote for him.

Father Damo

Andre 3000 is an overrated knobend. Seriously, he hasnt done anything of note in 12 years. All cheese.

Bobby Baccala

Father Damo wrote: »

Andre 3000 is an overrated knobend. Seriously, he hasnt done anything of note in 12 years. All cheese.

You have proved yourself to have very little knowledge of hip hop in that statement.

conor.hogan.2

Hugh Cream wrote: »

if your relevant after 20 years your not over rated.
i dont understand why people always concentrate on an artists worst work, and claim thats as good as that artist is.
snoops best work is on par or more than likely better than the best work of your favorite rapper.
he deserves credit for his best work, and deserves to be judged on that work.

Read my posts - I like him but he is overrated for the amount of good stuff he has actually released rap wise.

Father Damo

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

You have proved yourself to have very little knowledge of hip hop in that statement.

Oh holy jesus. The guy is a talentless clown with childish music. He belongs in the Black Eyed Peas. Remember that song Prorotype? Jeeeesus. Outkast first album is a classic, they have declined alot since then.

Boom_Bap

I can completely understand some of the statements here about 2Pac. Let me start by saying that I grew up on 2Pac, I used to buy his albums on thier release dates, bearing in mind that was any date in Ireland after the official release in the USA so it involved alot of visits to music stores!
I bump all his albums (up to Makaveli) regularly, and love his music.

But.......he is one of the most predictable MCs I have ever heard. Listen to his delivery from his 2nd album onwards, it rarely changes. The same rhyme pattern is used. His subject matter was quite limited. These are 2 important factors for me to be a great rapper. Versatiility is important to me.

But, the way the music was made, it worked. His charisma shone through. But, if 2Pac was an unknown starting out now, I doubt he we would make any noise at all.


And I cant believe that Andre 3000 has been mentioned. He is one of the most talented artists I have ever heard. Never rusty, always evolving, technically brilliant. I think its a case that people want to hear the gangsta Dre from Southernplaya or the Dre from ATLiines, or the Dre from Aquemini........he has evolved artistically so much that people have a preference for one of his guises. It's time to accept them all and bow down to his excellence!

Snoop is totally over-rated. Name me 10 of his songs were he doesnt rely on spelling his name to fill a void.

Rakim is not overrated at all. After seeing him recently in concert, he is still a god.

Kool G Rap is totally under rated. Legend that never gets much props.

Hugh Cream

You see this argument always confuses me, you will see someone mention rhyme pattern and delivery when critiquing an artist.
Then maybe in the same thread or a different one you will see them praise someone like rakim as a true great.
Rakims pattern or delivery rarely changed, his subject matter more or less remains the same from day one.
The selective critiquing is one of the worst aspects of a rap fan IMO.
btw in no way shape or form criticizing rakim or claiming he's over rated, just using him as an example.

Hugh Cream

Gonna kind of agree with one of the posters above and say outkast.
Personally feel as a group they've only produced one great album in aquemIni.
Don't shoot me though, it's only an opinion.

Hugh Cream

Again gonna go against the grain and say wu tang.
Barring a few songs I never saw the appeal.
Individual members may have produced classic material, but as a group I find their music boring, sorry.

bigpoppa

overrated? 36 chambers etc? really? I have to say I could not disagree more, for me overrated (esp in light of recent weeks is 50 cent it is over for that guy, over and done)

Bobby Baccala

bigpoppa wrote: »

overrated? 36 chambers etc? really? I have to say I could not disagree more, for me overrated (esp in light of recent weeks is 50 cent it is over for that guy, over and done)

yeah have to agree with you there, wu tang are probably the best group to come out of the east coast, their albums as a group were all brilliant bar a few ropey songs like uzi, and many of their solo albums were brilliant, OBFCL, Liquid swords, Return to the 36 chambers, supreme clientele and from what i hear, tical.
They definitely go down as one of the greatest groups of all time, if not them who else?

mufcboy1999

I have to agree on the Andre 3000/outkast argument they are clearly overrated as much as I like them they don't deserve the god like status a few have of them on this forum.

Hugh Cream

East coast groups.
Naughty By Nature.

Discussion closed.

conor.hogan.2

Individually hit and miss individual releases by the clan but as a group they were untouchable.

This is rap, it is about what you say and how you say it. Therefore if you do not have something good to say but say it well (like snoop) you can be successful or like rakim becuause you have good lyrics and also say it well. Then there are artists who have neither.

Wu tang are the best hip hop group hands down, minus duos and Run-Dmc.

I can't believe wu and 2pac are being brought up so much, but thats opinion obviously.

Mobb Deep, name me five of their songs.

Hugh Cream

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I can't believe wu and 2pac are being brought up so much, but thats opinion obviously.

That's true, understandable people finding other peoples opinions strange tho.

conor.hogan.2

Hugh Cream wrote: »

That's true, understandable people finding other peoples opinions strange tho.

Yes, naturally with Drake or Lamar for some and immortal technique or Canibus etc for others (or both) but I did not expect 2pac and to a lesser extent WTC to be widely chosen as overrated I would say under if anything.

Da Shins Kelly

Cannot believe people are mentioning Andre 3000 in this. Rapping aside, the man is just an incredibly talented musician, naturally. Great singing voice, plays a variety of instruments (he played every instrument on Hey Ya! aside from bass), as well as having a very smooth, jazz-influenced rapping technique and multiple styles. He's a chameleon who can keep switching it up, incorporating different genres into his music while staying relevant and keeping up a very high quality (unlike some). To be honest, I think Andre could turn his hand to pretty much any genre of music and be great at it. As far as just raw talent and orignality, he is streets ahead of most people in the music industry in general, not just hip hop.

Hugh Cream

I will say about 3000, I agree about his ability, I don't think the credit he receives is unwarrented.
But he is probably prolific due to the lack, or very small quantity of material he drops.
And saying that, speaking only on guest spots as that's all we can speak on lately, I havnt been impressed with many of his latest ones, if any.
In fact he was on one last year maybe, think Chris brown but could be wrong, and I remember thinking 3000 was actually the weak part of the song.
So for me, ye he's talented no doubt but lately I feel he's just churning out any old rubbish.