Overrated rappers

Hugh Cream

anyone who suggests eminem is some how not an amazingly talented artist is crazy.
people have this thing that if your later albums dont quite match the brilliance of your earlier material you are finished.:rolleyes:

mufcboy1999

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Eminem being mentioned is no more ludicrous than 2pac being mentioned.

true but i don't think either are over rated they deserve all the credit they get, but there popularity seems to go against them in these kind of threads, i just think its impossible to call someone the greatest artist of all time in music as a whole.

anyone who suggests eminem is some how not an amazingly talented artist is crazy.
people have this thing that if your later albums dont quite match the brilliance of your earlier material you are finished.

+1 on that, happens to just about every artist at some point in their career.

Da Shins Kelly

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

I couldn't name one but it would have to be from someone like the stones or the beetles or bob marley or one of the classics, there was just too many great artists before eminem for any of his songs to be considered one of the greatest songs ever written.

Just because something comes from rock doesn't automatically make it better. Rock has its fair share of sh*t, and it's also had decades to evolve, much longer than hip hop. Just because Eminem hasn't been around as long as the Beatles or the Stones (who wrote their fair share of sh*te in their day) or Bob Marley, doesn't mean that he hasn't written a song that is going to stand the test of time. Just because someone is older doesn't make them better. Eminem is a great artist, as well as an icon, even if his current work isn't quite as good (but that's just opinion). Sure, even Seamus Heaney commented on his writing ability.

The Beatles and Bob Marley and the likes aren't always going to be the only people to be held up as classic artists. Music is still evolving, there are new and great artists coming to the fore all the time, there are more talented people in the world than just those artists, and guaranteed somebody will eventually come along that is more talented than the Beatles (there probably already are people out there who are). Eminem is one of the current artists who is actually going to be remembered, and not just in hip hop, but for the impact he's had on popular culture in general. His image and music has crossed-over, so he's not just in the domain of hip hop, he's beyond that. People are still going to know who he is in 20 years time. Surely that's a test of how great someone is. Sure his music is not as old as Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds or Satisfaction, but how exactly is that a test of how great a song is? Anyway, I don't believe for a second that people listening to the Beatles and the Stones back then seriously believed that they were listening to "the greatest songs of all time", they were listening to pop music that has happened to become timeless, much the same as what people do today.

conor.hogan.2

Oh I was not for a minute saying Eminem is overrated.

Him without Dre however he would be Eyedea.

ConfusedGuy92

I actually do think Eminem is overrated. I think he has the ability to have great storytelling, which he has used in some songs. Also there is no doubt that with rhyming alone he is great, but I don't see how he can be considered the GOAT personally. Currently, he uses vague 'emotional' subjects which he knows will relate to the self loathing and depressed youth of today. "I'm Not Afraid" is basically just a song for someone to be all like "My mom and dad faught last night, I relate to this SOOOO much". Safe to say, I'm not a fan .

I feel Rakim is quite overrated, but when he really goes for it he is one of the GOATs. Timeless, so age don't count in the booth, when you're flow stays submerged in the fountain of youth.

Boom_Bap

I dont think that Eminem is over-rated at all. Brilliant MC and is so diverse in hop he delivers.

It's just a shame his career choices are not what I wanted to see him do. And he shouldnt have started producing.

But, amazing rapper.

@conor.hogan.2 - I dont think Em and Eyedea should be used in the same context really. Eyedea had the choice to go 'hollywood' but chose not to to make music that he as a solo artist and part of a group with Ailities wanted to make.
Em started out that way and went 'hollywood', and now is making chart music really as a solo artist.

conor.hogan.2

Boom Bap - Eyedea never had a Dre with him thats my point.

Maybe he did? I don't know his history that well but if Eminem did not get the Dre break he would not have blown up as much and possibly had a bad end like eyedea.

Bobby Baccala

Who ever said he was over rated? If anything he was first under rated when he brought out infinite, which is a class album but I maintain my original point which is that the lad that said that Stan was the greatest song ever written is wrong, end of eminem discussion.

Mos Def

Mos def is nowhere near over rated, he is possibly the smartest rapper alive and the deepness of his songs can't be beaten and thats the truth.

Hugh Cream

Every conscious rapper is over rated, any time you see someone describe a rappers music as a "real rap" they are talking about a rapper who is over rated.

conor.hogan.2

He is clever and it rubs off on his lyrics, I would not brush him off as "conscious".

Da Shins Kelly

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

the lad that said that Stan was the greatest song ever written is wrong.

There's no "wrong", it's all just opinion. You're not automatically right just because you disagree, there's plenty who would think you're opinion is wrong.

Sl!mCharles

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Mos def is nowhere near over rated, he is possibly the smartest rapper alive and the deepness of his songs can't be beaten and thats the truth.

you're passing way too much of your opinion off as facts.

Hugh Cream

some artists are good, but because their music reflects certain issues some people levitate them to a position they dont deserve.
mos def is one such artist, hes not great in all honesty.

Boom_Bap

can we please refer to Mos Def as Yassin Bey now please

Eoghan41

Sl!mCharles wrote: »

you're passing way too much of your opinion off as facts.

Too true. OK maybe saying that infinite bollocks was a bit harsh.. After all scary movies, infinite and tonite are good songs. But people were caught up in the fact that there was actually a decent white rapper who was zany, crazy and unpredictable rapper which was why TSSLP sold so well. Again there were a few good songs on it but I'd only listen to still don't give a.... Just don't give a f... And bad meets evil on that album. His new stuff is just so much more lyrically sophisticated that to me his older stuff looks outdated. Recovery standard throughout the album is higher than any other one besides maybe the Eminem show. Not to call Stan an incredible song is ridiculous. It's a masterpiece and it seems to me like Paddy just wants to go against the grain and try sound like he knows more than he does by bashing a great,popular artist, who, because of his ability, happens to be popular. Relapse is my favourite album Btw.

Bobby Baccala

Sl!mCharles wrote: »

you're passing way too much of your opinion off as facts.

But the original post where someone referred to stan as the greatest song ever written isn't passing an opinion off as fact?

Bobby Baccala

Eoghan41 wrote: »

Too true. OK maybe saying that infinite bollocks was a bit harsh.. After all scary movies, infinite and tonite are good songs. But people were caught up in the fact that there was actually a decent white rapper who was zany, crazy and unpredictable rapper which was why TSSLP sold so well. Again there were a few good songs on it but I'd only listen to still don't give a.... Just don't give a f... And bad meets evil on that album. His new stuff is just so much more lyrically sophisticated that to me his older stuff looks outdated. Recovery standard throughout the album is higher than any other one besides maybe the Eminem show. Not to call Stan an incredible song is ridiculous. It's a masterpiece and it seems to me like Paddy just wants to go against the grain and try sound like he knows more than he does by bashing a great,popular artist, who, because of his ability, happens to be popular. Relapse is my favourite album Btw.

I have already stated that I listen to eminem more and more lately and I'm liking him more and more so don't assume things you haven't a clue about and secondly you didn't describe stan as incredible you said it was the best song ever written, and in a way which made it look as though it was fact, which it clearly isn't.
And I'm quite aware of and I respect eminems ability so again stop with the ridiculous assumptions.

Hugh Cream

Eoghan41 wrote: »

Too true. OK maybe saying that infinite bollocks was a bit harsh.. After all scary movies, infinite and tonite are good songs. But people were caught up in the fact that there was actually a decent white rapper who was zany, crazy and unpredictable rapper which was why TSSLP sold so well. Again there were a few good songs on it but I'd only listen to still don't give a.... Just don't give a f... And bad meets evil on that album. His new stuff is just so much more lyrically sophisticated that to me his older stuff looks outdated. Recovery standard throughout the album is higher than any other one besides maybe the Eminem show. Not to call Stan an incredible song is ridiculous. It's a masterpiece and it seems to me like Paddy just wants to go against the grain and try sound like he knows more than he does by bashing a great,popular artist, who, because of his ability, happens to be popular. Relapse is my favourite album Btw.

have to disagree mate, his older stuff does not seem dated to me.
SSLP for me was skippable, or so i thought, then one time i actually relistened to it and its so much better than i first gave it credit for.
i always though it was good, but probably didnt appreciate it as much as it deserved.

Eoghan41

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

I have already stated that I listen to eminem more and more lately and I'm liking him more and more so don't assume things you haven't a clue about and secondly you didn't describe stan as incredible you said it was the best song ever written, and in a way which made it look as though it was fact, which it clearly isn't.
And I'm quite aware of and I respect eminems ability so again stop with the ridiculous assumptions.

You know you're right. You're opinion is better than mine. Well done

Hugh Cream

Think ive said it, but Immortal Technique, he's shyt and hugely over rated / Thread...

EDIT: But he raps about important issues so hes godly, fukk outta here.:rolleyes:

Bobby Baccala

Hugh Cream wrote: »

Think ive said it, but Immortal Technique, he's shyt and hugely over rated / Thread...

EDIT: But he raps about important issues so hes godly, fukk outta here.:rolleyes:

Wouldn't call him shíte but he's certainly over rated, somebody tried to say he was better than biggie and tupac which is blasphemous imo.

conor.hogan.2

I would recommend people listen to IT a bit more, not all of his stuff is about "important issues".

He has a great head for picking good beats and production too, but I can see why people are put off by him in a similar sense to how they are put off by Bis and JMT as they are very outspoken and could be off-putting if you only listen to some of their songs.

Hugh Cream

the guy cant even ride a beat, his flow is awful, hes truly shyt.
people need to stop being in awe of the issues and actually listen to him.

megtyler

Lil Wayne
Jay Z

Hugh Cream

megtyler wrote: »

Lil Wayne
Jay Z

Nah, Way Off.

ItsNugget

Nolanger wrote: »

Eric B is overrated too. Always preferred Polo.

Eric B is overrated at what? Ya know he didnt actually produce any of them tracks?

Hugh Cream

Method Man

Bobby Baccala

Hugh Cream wrote: »

Method Man

In what sense is method man over rated, he's a fúckin brilliant MC.

baddebt

Hugh Cream wrote: »

Method Man

you gotta be ****tin me :eek:

conor.hogan.2

ItsNugget wrote: »

Eric B is overrated at what? Ya know he didnt actually produce any of them tracks?

What do you mean? He had a big part to play in the group. Polo did not produce a lot of the tracks either thats not to say he did not do other things.

Boom_Bap

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

What do you mean? He had a big part to play in the group. Polo did not produce a lot of the tracks either thats not to say he did not do other things.

I think what he is saying is the Eric B. has the production credits on the album, but rumour is that he was rarely in the studio, let alone behind the boards. But he still got the production credit on the album sleve for producing the song.

Polo didnt do the majority of the production, but its correctly noted in the credits as to what he did and didnt do. Marley Marl done the bulk of the production.....and in a twist of irony, Eric B. also prduced some of the tracks on the Kool G Rap & DJ Polo albums.

Hugh Cream

baddebt wrote: »

Hugh Cream wrote: »

Method Man

you gotta be ****tin me :eek:

Why?

conor.hogan.2

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I think what he is saying is the Eric B. has the production credits on the album, but rumour is that he was rarely in the studio, let alone behind the boards. But he still got the production credit on the album sleve for producing the song.

Polo didnt do the majority of the production, but its correctly noted in the credits as to what he did and didnt do. Marley Marl done the bulk of the production.....and in a twist of irony, Eric B. also prduced some of the tracks on the Kool G Rap & DJ Polo albums.

Ok, but he was one half of Eric B and Rakim. He did some things for most of the songs either general production or the beats and was on tour, videos and interviews.

Lots of people get mentioned in credits and some people who should get mentioned do not get mentioned etc.

Boom_Bap

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Ok, but he was one half of Eric B and Rakim. He did some things for most of the songs either general production or the beats and was on tour, videos and interviews.

Lots of people get mentioned in credits and some people who should get mentioned do not get mentioned etc.

Large Professor didnt get mentioned once in the credits for Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em, but he apparently produced the whole thing.

If there were anomalies on 1 or 2 songs with the credits, fair enough, but Eric B. taking credit for a whole album he didnt produce is taking it a bit too far.

conor.hogan.2

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Large Professor didnt get mentioned once in the credits for Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em, but he apparently produced the whole thing.

If there were anomalies on 1 or 2 songs with the credits, fair enough, but Eric B. taking credit for a whole album he didnt produce is taking it a bit too far.

He was one half of Eric B and Rakim - him not being accredited would be weird and not very likely. But I do see the point/problem.

Producers and more so directors in films often get more credit than they deserve.

cloptrop

Eminem illustrates a story better than any other rapper out there, could 2pac have wrote role model. I dont think so .

Tbh Id rate eminem prob the best rap writer of all time.As for rapping hes prob not the best , but hes up there.

baddebt

Hugh Cream wrote: »

Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0BlXy3Roj4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaOYfZOadI

there's a sample of how good Meth. is

Bobby Baccala

cloptrop wrote: »

Eminem illustrates a story better than any other rapper out there, could 2pac have wrote role model. I dont think so .

Tbh Id rate eminem prob the best rap writer of all time.As for rapping hes prob not the best , but hes up there.

Slick Rick, Tupac, Immortal technique all have equally good story telling skills man.
And i agree with you that he's up there, not the best of all time though imo

Hugh Cream

baddebt wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0BlXy3Roj4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALaOYfZOadI

there's a sample of how good Meth. is

thats the whole point of the thread, most, if not all those thats been mentioned have a number of classic songs, maybe a great album.
Meth is no different, definitely has some great songs, but personally speaking i think he fell of the face of the earth years ago.
you may disagree but imo his best days are behind him, for that reason i think hes over rated.

cloptrop

Hugh Cream wrote: »

thats the whole point of the thread, most, if not all those thats been mentioned have a number of classic songs, maybe a great album.
Meth is no different, definitely has some great songs, but personally speaking i think he fell of the face of the earth years ago.
you may disagree but imo his best days are behind him, for that reason i think hes over rated.

But if your going on that way of thinking are you saying everyone will be overrated eventually. "pac and biggie are way over rated then, they have been dead years.

conor.hogan.2

Tupac wrote several songs better than role model.

I think the opposite is true pac and biggie are not overated:

"When Jay was 33, Hov worked to build a Blueprint
When Em was 33, he sold 30 million units
And Biggie Smalls' status as a legend's quite clear,
And when he was 33, he'd been dead for 9 years!" - Iron Solomon.

They are still relevant despite not being alive for 16 and 15 years (roughly) respectively. Also you can not say they are only relevant because of how they died as they were both platinum and huge before their tragic ends.

cloptrop

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Tupac wrote several songs better than role model.

.

yeah but he didnt write any quite like role model or Kim ,
Eminem wrote alot of songs that nobody else could have written because he never took himself too seriously , he was always ready to poke fun at himself.
As for Stan being the greatest song ever, somebody said that a while ago.
Ok he improved a Dido song but in all fairness it was a Dido song , this is what seperates the beatle , stone roses culture club , frankie goes to hollywood etc tht that fella a few pages ago was going on about.
If eminem was remembered in a musical sense it will not be for that song .It was nt even close to being the best song on that album.

conor.hogan.2

No, because he was not Eminem. Only Eminem could rap about that.
Eminem poked fun at other people mainly.

He is great, I love most of his music but saying he was a better writer or rapper than 2pac is crazy.

Bobby Baccala

cloptrop wrote: »

yeah but he didnt write any quite like role model or Kim ,
Eminem wrote alot of songs that nobody else could have written because he never took himself too seriously , he was always ready to poke fun at himself.
As for Stan being the greatest song ever, somebody said that a while ago.
Ok he improved a Dido song but in all fairness it was a Dido song , this is what seperates the beatle , stone roses culture club , frankie goes to hollywood etc tht that fella a few pages ago was going on about.
If eminem was remembered in a musical sense it will not be for that song .It was nt even close to being the best song on that album.

Whats the story with you actually makin sense now when you told us all rap was just for teenagers and we would all eventually grow out of it?:p

conor.hogan.2

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Whats the story with you actually makin sense now when you told us all rap was just for teenagers and we would all eventually grow out of it?:p

Haha good spot. As I said when people actually give it a chance they get deeper and deeper into it.

Bobby Baccala

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Haha good spot. As I said when people actually give it a chance they get deeper and deeper into it.

Couldn't have said it better myself, the more you explore rap the better it gets.

cloptrop

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

No, because he was not Eminem. Only Eminem could rap about that.
Eminem poked fun at other people mainly.

He is great, I love most of his music but saying he was a better writer or rapper than 2pac is crazy.

I think he was a better writer than 2pac, look at all the different situations Eminmem wrote about , all the different types of moods he did well.He could rap about beating the missus and make you feel sorry for him.
2 pac pretty much had 2 gears, Tough 2pac and 2pac feeling sorry for how tough they have it in the ghetto. You can pull out other songs but that may have been about other stuff but they werent as good as Eminem could have done them.
Eminem could write a rap about cutting the grass in his back garden and make it great.

conor.hogan.2

Lets call a spade a spade here for most of his career he was off his face and had occasional great songs but most of it was piss take, drugs and great production.

2pac actually rapped about lots of topics and did not need drugs (hardcore) to make great music.

I love eminems music, I grew up on it literally from 9 onwards as soon as he came out with dre.

But if anyone had two gears for most of his career it was him "dont give a ****" and "i wuv hallie/kim"

Shapey Fiend

Pretty much all the rappers who have technical skills but don't say much and have a bad ear for beats. I don't think a lot of them have a good sense of how to make cohesive albums or their taste in production gets dated and they lose relevance.

cloptrop

Jay z is out of time alot by the way, ask anyone that plays music and has heard of him they will tell you that