The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2012

premierstone

carey2010 wrote: »

Totally agree with this one no denying the team is in a completely different place now than when they were with sheedy the management had a team that was at its height when they took them over and now the team is at an all time low with regards moral and drive.....Even by looking at the team playing the players are getting greedy with not passing the ball I think the players respected Sheedy more than Ryan and he kept them in line....Such a pity to see a team capable of AI success again not performing to their abilities!!

The level of hyperbole on this thread after a league campaign is lol It was the league FFS, and whats with all this Sheedy love in, no doubt ye were the same people who wanted him out after the debacle in the Pairc in 2010, Tipperary supporters are the most fickle shower of, well as Paidi would say, animals.

Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne took on a thankless job, succeed and you were handed a great team by the prvious management and fail and well, you get all the sh*t that has been flying around the last few months.

carey2010

premierstone wrote: »

The level of hyperbole on this thread after a league campaign is lol It was the league FFS, and whats with all this Sheedy love in, no doubt ye were the same people who wanted him out after the debacle in the Pairc in 2010, Tipperary supporters are the most fickle shower of, well as Paidi would say, animals.

Declan Ryan and Tommy Dunne took on a thankless job, succeed and you were handed a great team by the prvious management and fail and well, you get all the sh*t that has been flying around the last few months.

Ah excuse me we are entitled to our own opinions we are merely stating that the team was in a better place when Sheedy was manager....And no as a matter of fact i didnt want him out after 2010 because although we got hammered it was evident we had potential unlike the management we have now which is a complete and utter joke.....Whats with all the Ryan love? Dunno if you've been to any matches but as a supporter who has been to them it is clear Tipperary are half the team they were in 2010 or 2011 im not gonna sugarcoat this team im merely saying theres a problem which everyone else on this forum can see were just looking for solutions!!!

ReacherCreature

Bonner Maher to come back for light training. He could be ready for the Munster versus Limerick which is very good news. Also, Curran to return along with Kelly, Callanan, and Stapleton so I wouldn't run to the lifeboats just yet.

The number five spot needs to be settled and I think John O' Keeffe should push for it.

What's going on with Shane McGrath? Woodlock's taking his place and I'm not totally impressed with him. Chipped in with some nice shots but he frustrated me versus Cork.

When everyone's back, momentum and motivation needs to be prioritised and try get out of this 'flat' hurling phase at the moment.

premierstone

carey2010 wrote: »

Ah excuse me we are entitled to our own opinions we are merely stating that the team was in a better place when Sheedy was manager....And no as a matter of fact i didnt want him out after 2010 because although we got hammered it was evident we had potential unlike the management we have now which is a complete and utter joke.....Whats with all the Ryan love? Dunno if you've been to any matches but as a supporter who has been to them it is clear Tipperary are half the team they were in 2010 or 2011 im not gonna sugarcoat this team im merely saying theres a problem which everyone else on this forum can see were just looking for solutions!!!

Complete and utter joke of a management are they now, right lets look at the facts, they won a Minor AI and got to a senior final in their three years working together with Tipperary intercounty teams, shocking isnt it :rolleyes:

Yes I have been to every singole game Tipp have played this year, Waterford Crystal included, thanks for your concern, and I have been following Tipperary hurling since the mid 80's and am in no way concerned by last Sundays performance.

Declan was also one of the greatest servants on the field of play for Tipperary and holds the unbelievable distintion of having won Senior AI medals in three different decades.

You say that there is a problem there that evertone can see, do you realise the difference between league and championship, April and September??

As has been highlighted we were missing Paul Curran, Paddy Saint, Donnagh Maher, Shane McGrath, Seamus Hennesy, Bonner Maher, Seamie Callinan, Eoin Kelly and Lar Corbett last Sunday so all Im asking for is a bit of perspective and realism.

carey2010

Yes I know we are missing crucial players but there is still something lacking within the team...And yes Ryan was a very good and valued player but there is a difference between playing and managing hurling which was proven when Babs took us over and with other teams around the country...I do realise there is a big difference between April and September and I'm not ruling us out of the championship yet but if the management don't step up and make some changes i think it will be a very short summer for us...You cant say there isnt something seriously wrong with the team the way we are performing and the tactics the management are using is proving wrong at the moment!!

premierstone

carey2010 wrote: »

Yes I know we are missing crucial players but there is still something lacking within the team...And yes Ryan was a very good and valued player but there is a difference between playing and managing hurling which was proven when Babs took us over and with other teams around the country...I do realise there is a big difference between April and September and I'm not ruling us out of the championship yet but if the management don't step up and make some changes i think it will be a very short summer for us...You cant say there isnt something seriously wrong with the team the way we are performing and the tactics the management are using is proving wrong at the moment!!

There is not a huge difference really between playing and managing and I cant think of too many AI winning managers that were'nt great players aswell. Your reference to Babs is also flawed considering Bab's is the most successfull manager Tipp have had in over 40 years, you are being swayed by he's second period in charge which was more down to him been too old and stubborn rather than lacking the ability.

I stand by my view that there is nothing to be overly concerned about right now, the team that lines out in the knockout games later will be unrecognisable from anything we have seen thus far, personall wise and spark wise, I have spoken to a good few of the players involved both senior ones and relative newcomers and they are all extrememly happy with how they are progressing and the plan is too be peaking much later in the year and tbh thats good enough for me.

The only too areas that cause me slight concern is a lack of decent cover at the back, especially the No.5 position, in an ideal world Shane McGrath regains he's form and Brendan Maher is moved back, and my other concern would be Cummins, he is quite clearly past he's best and is slipping.

carey2010

Listen i dont want to get into an argument with people on this forum we all have our own opinions and yes ye state good points but i and i know a good few others just aren't happy with the progress but as i stated before im not ruling Tipperary out just yet

premierstone

carey2010 wrote: »

Listen i dont want to get into an argument with people on this forum we all have our own opinions and yes ye state good points but i and i know a good few others just aren't happy with the progress but as i stated before im not ruling Tipperary out just yet

Agreed the last thing we need to do is start fighting with ourselves I have always felt alot ot Tipp fans are very prone to knee-jerk reactions and hyperbole, guess the other side of it is I can be abit defensive

wrmwit

Did any of ye read today's report in the Indo about the pressure on Declan Ryan.

"Could it be that, subconsciously, Tipperary had that date and venue on their mind in the build up to Sunday's league semi-final and that they didn't want to overload their schedule in the coming weeks with another leauge final date with Kilkenny?"

I suppose we'll see in September if it was the case or not!

What annoys me is that all reports on Tipp hurling the past few weeks have stated something about Lar. I'm sure that's not helping the players if they read these reports and they're thinking that they're not good enough without him.

Forget Lar, he's gone, good luck to him, move on.

ReacherCreature

premierstone wrote: »

Agreed the last thing we need to do is start fighting with ourselves I have always felt alot ot Tipp fans are very prone to knee-jerk reactions and hyperbole, guess the other side of it is I can be abit defensive

Reason for why Tipp fans might be edgy is that the team is a real contender (and has proven so) to defeat Kilkenny. Kilkenny had a monopoly on the AI in the 2000s/early teens. Now there's a chance to see us defeat them. I would be worried too if we started slipping.

Heard a rumour that Lar's going from Thurles and going to Clonoulty. I don't really understand club hurling, what do you think? Like I said, rumour from up the county so treat it as so.

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Reason for why Tipp fans might be edgy is that the team is a real contender (and has proven so) to defeat Kilkenny. Kilkenny had a monopoly on the AI in the 2000s/early teens. Now there's a chance to see us defeat them. I would be worried too if we started slipping.

Heard a rumour that Lar's going from Thurles and going to Clonoulty. I don't really understand club hurling, what do you think? Like I said, rumour from up the county so treat it as so.

Well he is definately guaranteed to get back onto the panel whenever he likes if that is the truth, because you get on the Tipperary panel even if you are a head on a stick so long as your from Clonoulty-Rossmore these times.

tippspur

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Bonner Maher to come back for light training. He could be ready for the Munster versus Limerick which is very good news. Also, Curran to return along with Kelly, Callanan, and Stapleton so I wouldn't run to the lifeboats just yet.

The number five spot needs to be settled and I think John O' Keeffe should push for it.

What's going on with Shane McGrath? Woodlock's taking his place and I'm not totally impressed with him. Chipped in with some nice shots but he frustrated me versus Cork.

When everyone's back, momentum and motivation needs to be prioritised and try get out of this 'flat' hurling phase at the moment.

At the moment Woodlock is playing better than Shane Mc Grath but that wouldn't be hard because Shane's form is totally gone out the window at the moment,he came off the bench on Sunday and did very little,in fact I think he gave away the ball that lead to the Cork goal.It's a shame really because he has the talent when things are going right for him and we need him playing well if we are going to progress this year.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Well he is definately guaranteed to get back onto the panel whenever he likes if that is the truth, because you get on the Tipperary panel even if you are a head on a stick so long as your from Clonoulty-Rossmore these times.

Firstly Lar wont be going to Clonoulty that bull, the guy hasnt picked up a hurl literally in 7 months, the guy is fed up with hurling.

Secondly that swipe at Clonoulty is so far off the mark its hilarious, they have 3 on the panel and none are getting a whole lot of game time, Hammersley is the only one you could argue doesnt deserve to be on the panel. Thurles also have 3, 4 if you include the self exiled Lar, Templederry have 3, Mullinahone have 3 and Drom have 3, so your insinuation that htere is some sort of bias is completely unfounded.

As I said Hammersley is the only one of the three lads I would question and infact Declan Ryan droped him from the panel when he took over last year and only recalled him this year because of Lar's retirement and Callinan, Bonner and Kelly's injuries.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

Firstly Lar wont be going to Clonoulty that bull, the guy hasnt picked up a hurl literally in 7 months, the guy is fed up with hurling.

Secondly that swipe at Clonoulty is so far off the mark its hilarious, they have 3 on the panel and none are getting a whole lot of game time, Hammersley is the only one you could argue doesnt deserve to be on the panel. Thurles also have 3, 4 if you include the self exiled Lar, Templederry have 3, Mullinahone have 3 and Drom have 3, so your insinuation that htere is some sort of bias is completely unfounded.

As I said Hammersley is the only one of the three lads I would question and infact Declan Ryan droped him from the panel when he took over last year and only recalled him this year because of Lar's retirement and Callinan, Bonner and Kelly's injuries.

Granted the panel is not flooded numerically with players from Clonoulty, but the 2 forwards that are on it are sub-standard. they are not even good enough for the Tipperary intermediate team in my honest opinion. the only physicality they bring to it is needless fouling, giving the opposition back possession and there is a tardiness and lack of effort very apparent in their performances. Apart from the game vs Galway, O'Neill has done nothing since. Hammer has done nothing full stop.

John O'Keefe i would accept could prove a useful pannellist and was unfairly made a scape goat after the final last year but there is forwards as good if not better then the other two on the panel who have been involved as far back as the early january challenges and havent improved in the slighest.

Pat Kerwick has had more good games then bad for Tipperary the last few years and was unfairly dropped at the expense of these two. Mikey Heffernan is as good if not better then either or both of them.

Id gladly admit there is a panellist from my own club who i feel is too young to be on the tipp panel at present and needs to show what he can do at under 21 (if he is eligible) before he can make the step up.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Granted the panel is not flooded numerically with players from Clonoulty, but the 2 forwards that are on it are sub-standard. they are not even good enough for the Tipperary intermediate team in my honest opinion. the only physicality they bring to it is needless fouling, giving the opposition back possession and there is a tardiness and lack of effort very apparent in their performances. Apart from the game vs Galway, O'Neill has done nothing since. Hammer has done nothing full stop.

John O'Keefe i would accept could prove a useful pannellist and was unfairly made a scape goat after the final last year but there is forwards as good if not better then the other two on the panel who have been involved as far back as the early january challenges and havent improved in the slighest.

Pat Kerwick has had more good games then bad for Tipperary the last few years and was unfairly dropped at the expense of these two. Mikey Heffernan is as good if not better then either or both of them.

Id gladly admit there is a panellist from my own club who i feel is too young to be on the tipp panel at present and needs to show what he can do at under 21 (if he is eligible) before he can make the step up.

I completely agree re. Hammersley, he is slow, one sided and offers nothing different, I would rate O'Neill alot higher though and think he is a bright prospect, I have seen Mickey Heffernan playing all the way up since he was u-12, trust me he is not anywhere near intercounty standard, a decent finisher but no intelligence on the ball and cant win 50/50 ball.

Kerwick tbf was injured for so long and has very little hurling done, if he maintains he's current form for Killenaule Im sure he will be called back in, he wasnt unfairly droped though he was injured.

Also agree re. O'Keefe he was an easy target last year, the reality is he had Tommy Walsh raining ball down on top of him and Henry, was never switched to the other wing which would have been the logical thing to do, and on reflection Brendan Maher did no better on Henry after. Something similar happened Padraic Maher v Cork in 2010 with the villans being Gardner and Aisake, good job we didnt panic then and discard Paudi!!

ReacherCreature

O' Keeffe was having a good year in the championship and had to face Shefflin. Shefflin is one of the fiercest players in the last few decades. If every player that marked Shefflin was criticised there would be no defenders left in the country.

General question for discussion. Who is your favourite player outside of Tipperary? Mine is easily Richie Power. Fantastic hurler. Great with the assists, frees and general shooting. Can play multiple positions and has an unreal motor on him and puts the team first. I think Power has been slightly lost in the praise Kilkenny get with Tommy and Henry getting acclaim but Power is the man. I like keeping an eye on Declan Hannon, Liam Rushe, Shane Dooley, Shane Dowling, and a couple of others too.

Every county has terrific hurlers. For example just look at John Mullane's impact after rejoining the Waterford panel. A team that looked doomed to relegation beat both teams around them. Rory Jacob for Wexford is another hurler you'd really feel bad for. Gave Jackie Tyrell a torrid time in last years championship. Will probably never add to his Leinster Championship medal that he got in 2004.

If Cork manage to get Aidan Walsh hurling senior for them then they could really be a frightening prospect in the coming years.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

I completely agree re. Hammersley, he is slow, one sided and offers nothing different, I would rate O'Neill alot higher though and think he is a bright prospect, I have seen Mickey Heffernan playing all the way up since he was u-12, trust me he is not anywhere near intercounty standard, a decent finisher but no intelligence on the ball and cant win 50/50 ball.

Winning 50/50 is definately something he could improve on. He is a light frame and lacks a bit of conditioning alright. Still think he offers as much as John O'Neill if not a little more. O'Neill has good skill but not alone can he not win a ball he gives away a needless free giving the opposition back possession in a dead ball situation.

Intelligence on the ball however mightnt come as easily to Heffernan. He is still relatively young, only about 22 y/o, but maybe with the right guidance he could prove a useful player yet.

Xenophile

Just wondering if there is a photo of the Tipp Minor Football Team on this site. As All Ireland champions for 2011 they deseve it.

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

Just wondering if there is a photo of the Tipp Minor Football Team on this site. As All Ireland champions for 2011 they deseve it.

I can remember uploading a photo or two on last years thread especially one with liam mcgrath hoisting the trophy aloft after Tipperary won the munster final. Great great crop of youngsters they are and a credit to those involved and their clubs and county. Believe you me i felt there was plenty of discussion about that team not just on this thread but on the match thread on all ireland final day too, but perhaps not enough for the more football oriented supporter which is fair enough.

Feel free to discuss football on this thread though if you wish. I totally welcome it and i specifically named the thread for this year as the 'Tipperary GAA, (Club and Intercounty) discussion thread' with football (hell, even handball or rounders if you like) in mind.


With that all said perhaps segregation of topics may be something to consider for the future though i suppose given the nature of the beast that is Tipperary GAA, chances are the hurling discussion will greatly outweigh the football equvalent if they were separate threads.

DecTipp

Hey im hearing rumours all day that Declan Ryan and Tommy dunne have stepped down any truth of this????

tippspur

DecTipp wrote: »

Hey im hearing rumours all day that Declan Ryan and Tommy dunne have stepped down any truth of this????

Heard something similar last night, Load of rubbish I'd say.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Fingers crossed its true

ReacherCreature

Hoping that management go in the middle of the season? Are you crazy?

Give them the championship at least. Implement the plan. If it fails, it fails. A new management coming in would be the ultimate spanner in the works.

Like sacking a soccer manager mid-season, chances of the new manager winning everything is slim.

SteelyDanJalapeno

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Hoping that management go in the middle of the season? Are you crazy?

Give them the championship at least. Implement the plan. If it fails, it fails. A new management coming in would be the ultimate spanner in the works.

Like sacking a soccer manager mid-season, chances of the new manager winning everything is slim.

I don't/ or wouldn't expect him to win anything this season, but in my opinion, the summer someone gets in to work with the players the better, Ryan has had long enough

its amazing the difference a manager can make mid season and Michael Bond back in 1998 is a prime example. i cant help thinking psychology is alot of Tipperary's problems. Leahy made the point on Tipp FM monday night that the likes of Shane McGrath etc, their confidence is rock bottom. Compare that to Sept 2010.

We had one of the best fitness trainers in Cian o'Neill and from what i understand the conditions he had to work in became unteneble and that raised an immediate red flag with me.

I would be extremely critical of Ryan as a manager and the decline after 2010 has been hard to take, but i would consider him a gentleman and it isnt easy seeing a legend going through this. I really really wanted him to succeed but it became apparent long ago that this wouldnt be the case but i would also make the argument that perhaps if Eamon O'Shea was with him as opposed to Dunne, things might be a whole lot different.

We have a manager too passive and a trainer too aggressive and its a dynamic that was doomed from the off.

I can understand Premierstones stance that it might be too early to panic but for the love of me i cant see how this management team will learn, improve, and evolve and return to the pinnacle because whether you loved or loathed Sheedy that is where we were at in Sept 2010 with alot of glory days ahead, but i cant see us returning there soon.

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Hoping that management go in the middle of the season? Are you crazy?

Give them the championship at least. Implement the plan. If it fails, it fails. A new management coming in would be the ultimate spanner in the works.

Like sacking a soccer manager mid-season, chances of the new manager winning everything is slim.

Sometimes it does work out though. Martin O'Neill at Sunderland for example.

From what ive heard Tommy Dunne isnt liked at all and whilst i wouldnt buy the rumours ive heard this week i am certainly keeping an open mind to them. i think our season needs an sos and a change might be for the better but to be honest i cant think of who could do it. Even if Nicky English came in for the rest of the year?.....i dunno but surely someone can bring more to the table and why should they neccessarily be from Tipp?
When questions were asked of Johnny Evans, people were quick to dismiss him but the same people on premierview dont want to entertain the notion that Decky and Tommy arent up to it. A bit of hypocrisy involved but maybe that comes with the fact Decky and Tommy are two of our own whereas Evans was an outsider.

LONE WOLFF

IMO the management team should have gone after last years final. The match just passed Declan Ryan by. He gave most of the match just standing with his arms folded. John O'Keefe got a very raw deal IMO. He should have never started on Shefflin, he should have been switched with Padraic Maher before the game even started. Then he hauled him off before half - time. Then to cap it all off in the post match interview he couldn't explain where it all went wrong, he said he'd have to look at the video!!!.
Whatever was said about Liam Sheedy that would never have happened.

What we forget is that both Brendan Maher and Padraic Maher were both 20 year olds in 2009 and Noel McGrath was 19. Callanan was 21.
The year after Bonner aged 20, Mickey Cahill aged 21 and Gearoid Ryan aged 22 were added. All stepped up to the plate when required in the two finals. We got colossal performances from them when we needed and against the team we needed them to be good against.

Even at this tender age, this team has achieved nearly every accolade in the game. it is absolutely killing to see what they have become and the bigger killer is these dopes telling me Tipp have 'won their lot', based on last years final and this years exploits....PURE B*LLOCKS!! A young team who tore Kilkenny apart in 2010 and were robbed in 2009? A team who got to 3 all ireland finals in a row? A team who had just won the munster final by 21 points?? spent?? FU*K OFF.....Not a hope in hell we're finished.

This is what really makes me want to pull my hair out. We could be so so better only everything that made us great is being totally ignored.

Tipp can sweep the board the next few years with the right approach but if we continue to take this mundane, primitive approach to coaching and managing players and refuse to modernise. Refuse to see the wood because there is a huge cluster of trees in the way, then 5 in 46 years will become 5 in 55 years maybe in time even become 5 in 70 years....6 if were lucky.

the game is passing us by and we have manager after manager who seems to only want to come in and fight with players.

It would make you sick.

carey2010

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Hoping that management go in the middle of the season? Are you crazy?

Give them the championship at least. Implement the plan. If it fails, it fails. A new management coming in would be the ultimate spanner in the works.

Like sacking a soccer manager mid-season, chances of the new manager winning everything is slim.

What plan would that be from where im standing i cant see any plan?