The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2012

hinault

hinault wrote: »

I thought Galway put in an excellent performance yesterday against KK.

Certainly better than the alcoholics and chancers that populate the Tipperary senior hurling team.:mad:

Strong words indeed. Look to be fair to you i think you want as much for Tipperary as the rest of us and i understand your frustration but like alot of people please remember that these are amateur athletes first and foremost and that dont get a red dime for all the training they do. Fact is in the majority of cases, the few drinks they had in Nenagh were probably the first they had in 2012.

Whether they win by 18 points or lose by 18 they are human beings at the end of the day and i think within reason they deserve to unwind after a long hard season. if the reports of bad behaviour are true then they are unfortunate but i suppose if they happened after winning the all ireland who would really mind other then perhaps someone directly affected by it?

Im disappointed as anyone on the outcome and alot of the blame lies at the players door as well as the management. But its easy to accuse them of arrogance and not caring after a poor result. Dont forget though you had John O'Brien who lined out two days after his brother was buried. You have Brendan Cummins who goes for a run every so often up the mountains during the winter to maintain his level of fitness. You have Lar Corbett who id say didnt put 1lbs of fat on in the 11 years he has been involved with the senior hurling panel who on his return to the panel was so fit he was able to take part in the sprints. There is fierce dedication amongst the panel. There is a few of the younger players who have lost the way and are capable of so much better but they lacked that leadership from the management.

hinault

Deleted User wrote: »

Strong words indeed. Look to be fair to you i think you want as much for Tipperary as the rest of us and i understand your frustration but like alot of people please remember that these are amateur athletes first and foremost and that dont get a red dime for all the training they do. Fact is in the majority of cases, the few drinks they had in Nenagh were probably the first they had in 2012.

Whether they win by 18 points or lose by 18 they are human beings at the end of the day and i think within reason they deserve to unwind after a long hard season. if the reports of bad behaviour are true then they are unfortunate but i suppose if they happened after winning the all ireland who would really mind other then perhaps someone directly affected by it?

Im disappointed as anyone on the outcome and alot of the blame lies at the players door as well as the management. But its easy to accuse them of arrogance and not caring after a poor result. Dont forget though you had John O'Brien who lined out two days after his brother was buried. You have Brendan Cummins who goes for a run every so often up the mountains during the winter to maintain his level of fitness. You have Lar Corbett who id say didnt put 1lbs of fat on in the 11 years he has been involved with the senior hurling panel who on his return to the panel was so fit he was able to take part in the sprints. There is fierce dedication amongst the panel. There is a few of the younger players who have lost the way and are capable of so much better but they lacked that leadership from the management.

I take what you say on board.

The fact of the matter is that these players are representing their county and like an earlier poster said these players are there to set an example and to try to behave to the very highest of standards, whether the team wins/loses/draws.

Players making a show of themselves in the aftermatch behaviour should not be tolerated.
It reflects badly on the player, the team and his team mates and the county generally.
A situation has been allowed to develop where players are allowed to carry on as they like, without any consequences being brought for their behaviour.
This is unacceptable whether the team is winning or losing.

hinault

hinault wrote: »

I take what you say on board.

The fact of the matter is that these players are representing their county and like an earlier poster said these players are there to set an example and to try to behave to the very highest of standards, whether the team wins/loses/draws.

Players making a show of themselves in the aftermatch behaviour should not be tolerated.
It reflects badly on the player, the team and his team mates and the county generally.
A situation has been allowed to develop where players are allowed to carry on as they like, without any consequences being brought for their behaviour.
This is unacceptable whether the team is winning or losing.

If they are acting the mickey then win lose or draw they should be taken to task on it.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Our county board have assembled a 9 man panel (yes 9 men) to pick the next manager and they have assured us they wont go outside the county :rolleyes:

What with all the riches we have in coaching expertise sure we'll have no bother :rolleyes:

Other than Eamon o'Shea or Liam Sheedy and until today you also had Nicky English (who ruled himself out on tv3 prior to the match) we have little outside those candidates.

I cannot understand how we are so insular about ensuring the hurling manager has to be from Tipp. Surely Lar Corbett would have benefited greater from Donal O'Grady's tutelage had they got him even for the one year in 2011? Sure dont forget the Carroll Brothers from Limerick and Denis Byrne from Kilkenny donned the blue and gold so what would be the big deal about having an outside manager? Hell even Declan Carr was originally from Dublin.

All the great coaches in sport are not from the area they coached in with the exception of Pepe Guardiola, and Brian Cody. Alex Ferguson isnt a Stretford man, Arsene Wenger isnt an Islington man, Bill Shankly wasnt a scouser.

ReacherCreature wrote: »

This will probably be met by horror but I think it's incredibly stupid, foolish, and narrow minded to stay in the county for a manager and not venture over the borders. Go outside, think outside of the box.

I'd rather someone who was external to the county and was brilliant than some average coach who's Tipp born and picked for the sake that he's got "Tipperary blood" in him. It's utter nonsense to confine yourself to one county.

I agree with the County Boards view on this, there is absolutely no need to go outside of Tipp for a new manager, if a county of our tradition and heritage cant come up with one qualified candidate for the job, there is something seriously wrong.

And apart from that tradition, what outside manager has ever won an AI in hurling?? Michale Bond is the only one I'm aware of and that Ofally win had nothing at all to do with him, it was more of a two fingers to Babs from the players.

Where I do agree with ye is that the 9 man Commitee is a fraud, wtf are the 4 divisional chairmen involved for?? They have already met 5 times, so that 45 expense claims and I'm reliably informed the manager has been known since the first meeting.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

I agree with the County Boards view on this, there is absolutely no need to go outside of Tipp for a new manager, if a county of our tradition and heritage cant come up with one qualified candidate for the job, there is something seriously wrong.

And apart from that tradition, what outside manager has ever won an AI in hurling?? Michale Bond is the only one I'm aware of and that Ofally win had nothing at all to do with him, it was more of a two fingers to Babs from the players.

Well you know sometimes you just have to hold the hand up and admit that we just dont have the candidates. With the exception of Liam Sheedy or Eamon O'Shea i wouldnt leave some of the other names flying around manage a hen house let alone an intercounty team with annual all ireland aspirations.
Outside of Sheedy, o'Shea and 1 or 2 other names, putting a Tipperary man in charge for the sake of it is the equivalent of trying to win a hand of poker with 2 pair.

premierstone wrote: »

Where I do agree with ye is that the 9 man Commitee is a fraud, wtf are the 4 divisional chairmen involved for?? They have already met 5 times, so that 45 expense claims and I'm reliably informed the manager has been known since the first meeting.

That's no surprise to be honest. And as for these divisional chairmen that's yet another waste of time. The south board created a huge saga alone last year before being overturned by the county board. They should get rid of divisional boards and have one county board running all county championships.

ReacherCreature

premierstone wrote: »

I agree with the County Boards view on this, there is absolutely no need to go outside of Tipp for a new manager,

Even if that means picking up a bad manager who could be damaging over the long term?

if a county of our tradition and heritage cant come up with one qualified candidate for the job, there is something seriously wrong.

Is there really anyone notable? Everyone seem to be counting themselves out. Maybe tradition can take a back seat for now.

Where I do agree with ye is that the 9 man Commitee is a fraud, wtf are the 4 divisional chairmen involved for?? They have already met 5 times, so that 45 expense claims and I'm reliably informed the manager has been known since the first meeting.

I think that it's really a three man job, at max. Nine is preposterous.

buggy beag

just watched the 1989 al ireland just to cheer myself up:P god theres some difference between then and now.the antrim goalie was the size of 2 men haha and nicky english wha a legend and pat fox along with the bonners all strapped up wounded warriors.on a sidenote i was there as a ten year old with my uncle i think at the time if a child sat on an adults lap they were allowed in for free.i have the programme here at home and i have it signed by both sets of players i dont think you would see that in the modern game cant imagine the likes of brian cody being to happy with his players signing autographs during the warm ups. how things have changed:phaha

Loughc

buggy beag wrote: »

just watched the 1989 al ireland just to cheer myself up:P god theres some difference between then and now.the antrim goalie was the size of 2 men haha and nicky english wha a legend and pat fox along with the bonners all strapped up wounded warriors.on a sidenote i was there as a ten year old with my uncle i think at the time if a child sat on an adults lap they were allowed in for free.i have the programme here at home and i have it signed by both sets of players i dont think you would see that in the modern game cant imagine the likes of brian cody being to happy with his players signing autographs during the warm ups. how things have changed:phaha

I was at the game myself as a 5 year old sitting on my father's lap free in as well. All I remember from that game was the crowd was huge. I had never seen a crowd that big in my life!

buggy beag

lockie1983 wrote: »

I was at the game myself as a 5 year old sitting on my father's lap free in as well. All I remember from that game was the crowd was huge. I had never seen a crowd that big in my life!

i know ya its mad even how croker looked back then.the goalie was massive wasnt he.the difference in fitness levels and body shapes is on a different planet now.ah nothing bet going to the big days as a child back then,the drive up on a crap road in a crap van or car,the breakfast up der den the match and win or lose every pub was gave a visit on the way home,the aunt ringing the mother from a phone box telling her that wel b very late and can i have the day off school the monday haha hard to see the likes of antrim ever getting to a final again.

Loughc

buggy beag wrote: »

i know ya its mad even how croker looked back then.the goalie was massive wasnt he.the difference in fitness levels and body shapes is on a different planet now.ah nothing bet going to the big days as a child back then,the drive up on a crap road in a crap van or car,the breakfast up der den the match and win or lose every pub was gave a visit on the way home,the aunt ringing the mother from a phone box telling her that wel b very late and can i have the day off school the monday haha hard to see the likes of antrim ever getting to a final again.

Haha now you said it, we'll prob never see the likes of Antrim in the final again!

ReacherCreature

It's odd to see Loughgiel win the club championship and yet Antrim sink in the senior levels.

tonyduggan

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Yet you're probably one of the people that will be delighted once they get back to winning ways.

People who say things like this, I find, are generally people who've hopped on the bandwagon since 09/10. Quick to shoot down people who would be pissed off after following the team for years.

He's right. Wicked discipline issues, or at least very strong rumours of them, in the camp. Going back as far as the infamous few drinks after the Limerick game. Needs to be sorted out if heads are to be right. Look what happened Mulhall in KK, dropped, no messing around. Cody was right, as he generally is with these kind of things. I'm not saying people should be dropped but you have to accept you consequences.

tonyduggan

tonyduggan wrote: »

People who say things like this, I find, are generally people who've hopped on the bandwagon since 09/10. Quick to shoot down people who would be pissed off after following the team for years.

He's right. Wicked discipline issues, or at least very strong rumours of them, in the camp. Going back as far as the infamous few drinks after the Limerick game. Needs to be sorted out if heads are to be right. Look what happened Mulhall in KK, dropped, no messing around. Cody was right, as he generally is with these kind of things. I'm not saying people should be dropped but you have to accept you consequences.

Fair enough that may be true but hypothetically if Tipp won the all Ireland then would these even disciplinary issues come to light or would we all blissfully ignore them as we bask in the glory of our heroes? Im not saying that discipline not a factor but is it less noticeable when we are winning all Ireland's?

I agree that we need a disciplinarian and that goes back to my point about perhaps having to go outside the county for a manager. I mean we need a lad who can both be the boss but can be there to guide and help players development and only certain regimes have managed to marry those two since the era of the manager.

tonyduggan

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough that may be true but hypothetically if Tipp won the all Ireland then would these even disciplinary issues come to light or would we all blissfully ignore them as we bask in the glory of our heroes? Im not saying that discipline not a factor but is it less noticeable when we are winning all Ireland's?

I agree that we need a disciplinarian and that goes back to my point about perhaps having to go outside the county for a manager. I mean we need a lad who can both be the boss but can be there to guide and help players development and only certain regimes have managed to marry those two since the era of the manager.

This is the way i see it anyway, regarding would it be less noticeable if we were winning ai's - how many ai's have waterford won in the last ten years, and how many do you think they'd have won if they had someone to sort them out in that regard? There was none of these stories doing the rounds in 08/09/10, when we began out climb back, but in the end we fell faster than we ever climbed, i reckon its all down to discipline, and not just drinking. That many u21's winning the big one could give a great boost to the ego, and i think it has, to be honest. Celebrity status, as it were. In the book The Estacy and the Agony, Damien Tiernan credits a lot of waterfords couldashoulda's to those two factors, you'd hate to see them rip our lads asunder aswell

ReacherCreature

tonyduggan wrote: »

People who say things like this, I find, are generally people who've hopped on the bandwagon since 09/10. Quick to shoot down people who would be pissed off after following the team for years.

It's fickle attitudes. Try be somewhat consistent in support and point out flaws, learn the lessons and adapt. Throwing players under the bus is unfair and that's what I'm pointing out.

tonyduggan

ReacherCreature wrote: »

It's fickle attitudes. Try be somewhat consistent in support and point out flaws, learn the lessons and adapt. Throwing players under the bus is unfair and that's what I'm pointing out.

Fickle like only starting following a team when they start winning, am i right?

I doubt many of the players read this, so what lessons are we as fans to learn? That if the county is humiliated on an All Ireland semi final, we should all head to Nenagh and make a show of ourselves? We're no role models, we're fools with keyboards, they're the ones in the public eye.

Spending anywhere from 100-300 euro every summer just to get in the gate of matches, other expenses unaccounted for, and you end up watching the lar and tommy show, straight off of the den or something, tis no wonder people are upset. But shur twil be grand, just like twas grand in 02, and then again in 03...

tonyduggan

tonyduggan wrote: »

Fickle like only starting following a team when they start winning, am i right?

I doubt many of the players read this, so what lessons are we as fans to learn? That if the county is humiliated on an All Ireland semi final, we should all head to Nenagh and make a show of ourselves? We're no role models, we're fools with keyboards, they're the ones in the public eye.

Spending anywhere from 100-300 euro every summer just to get in the gate of matches, other expenses unaccounted for, and you end up watching the lar and tommy show, straight off of the den or something, tis no wonder people are upset. But shur twil be grand, just like twas grand in 02, and then again in 03...

I share your frustration and to be honest if i was asked whether i felt some of the younger players (Bonnar aside) have got carried away with their solitary Celtic cross i would say yes and they should take alot of the blame. Id be in less of a hurry to blame Lar as he did what his management instructed him to do until he was told otherwise which he subsequently wasnt.

The core of this problem is the young lads losing the head after one all Ireland with no Cody like leadership to keep them on their toes and the worrying thing is that they seem to have learned nothing after the beating they got last year. The general consensus was that we would fare better with this crop then we did with the class of 01 but i've come to realise that the same problems exist. Perhaps this problem even reared its ugly head in Cork in 2010. While i don't take anything away from Corks win that day, part of me wonders did we head down there with the wrong attitude completely?

Padraic Maher was adamant on the day he could compete in the air with a 6 ft 7 inch player and didnt put up the hurley once

I had heard a story some years back where Nicky English turned up for training back in early 2002 after driving all the way down from Dublin and only 5 players had turned up. He was fuming needless to say and probably made up his mind that he no longer needed this crap

So yes Tipperary probably lack leadership from management and discipline. Some of the twitter boys think they are undroppable. I would hope the right management come in and will give them a rude awakening.

However this problem probably existed back before 2010 and came to the surface when Tipperary won the All Ireland and Liam Sheedy and co quit. Back in September 2010 though i will admit i thought the boys were heroes to a man. Legends one and all. They could have done number 2's in my garden and i was so delighted at their success i would have cheered for that so as a supporter, i amongst others are perhaps part of the problem.

A new management who were naive and inexperienced came in for 2011 and it further fanned the flames of the situation. Its hard enough controlling egotists and that is what i believe some of the twitter boys have become the last two years, without being tactically inept yourself. As the ego's grew the team has suffered more and more.

The quiet man and his tactically clueless trainer who would fight with his own finger just wont cut the mustard anymore. We need a lad who reminds some of these lads that its a team game, that the sliothar travels faster than the man and that when all of us are dead and gone that Tipperary GAA will still exist. They need a complete bulldog to come in and light a fire under them.

hinault

I don't blame Corbett for the tactics that were adopted in the semi final.
Corbett was executing the plan devised by the team managers on the day.

Corbett retiring and then deciding to return is an issue that needs to be nipped in the bud however.

I'd echo the other posters suggestions that a disciplinarian/manager needs to be imposed on this senior team. I'd go further the regime needs to be imposed on minor/intermediate too.
Whatever regime needs to have the full support of the county board too.

I'd settle for a team that is more honest and hardworking than the shambles that we have currently.

I notice Paddy Power have closed the book on the next Tipperary manager. Wonder will we hear news soon or do the 'Magnificent 9' have to make a few more expense claims to our debt ridden county board beforehand?

Davin Stand

Deleted User wrote: »

I notice Paddy Power have closed the book on the next Tipperary manager. Wonder will we hear news soon or do the 'Magnificent 9' have to make a few more expense claims to our debt ridden county board beforehand?

I think people are making too much of Paddy Power closing the book on the new Tipp hurling manager. i believe that such "books" are closed after a certain time. Last week end Ladbrokes were taking no bets on the Tipp minors and we know how that worked out.

Davin Stand

Davin Stand wrote: »

I think people are making too much of Paddy Power closing the book on the new Tipp hurling manager. i believe that such "books" are closed after a certain time. Last week end Ladbrokes were taking no bets on the Tipp minors and we know how that worked out.

I suppose in fairness i probably wouldnt be the best in knowing how bookies operate. Normally the media blows up such scenarios with new football managers etc, so i took it as a sign of white smoke about to arise from the Lar Na Pairce Chimney

ReacherCreature

In some cases when the bookies close, they're wary about giving out truckloads of money. That said, they've closed before and deals that they speculated on, never occurred.

County shc last 16 from Tipp GAA site

COUNTY SENIOR HURLING CHAMPIONSHIP

The round 4 fixtures this weekend are as follows: Saturday September 15 at Leahy Park, Cashel, Eire Og Annacarty Donohill will play Borris-Ileigh at 2pm and Carrick Swans will play Drom and Inch at 3.30pm; Sunday September 16 at MacDonagh Park, Nenagh Toomevara will play Kildangan at 2pm and Loughmore-Castleiney will play Roscrea at 3.30pm. All games will go to extra time if necessary. The draws for the quarter finals of the county senior hurling championship were made at a meeting of the county CCC onMonday night and resulted as follows: Mullinahone v Winners of Loughmore Castleiney and Roscrea; Clonoulty Rossmore v Winners of Carrick Swans and Drom and Inch - these two games will be played in Semple Stadium on Saturday the 22nd of September at 6pm and 7.30pm respectively; Thurles Sarsfields v Winners of Toomevara and Kildangan; Portroe v Winners of Borris-Ileigh and Éire Óg Anacarty Donohill - these games will be played in Semple Stadium on Sunday the 23rd at 6pm and 7.30pm respectively. Extra time will be played in the four games if required. The CCC meeting also made adjustments to the county senior hurling championship plan due to the replay of the All Ireland minor hurling final. The county semi finals will now take place on Sunday October 7 with extra time if required. The county senior hurling final will take place as originally fixed for Sunday October 14.

carryharry

Deleted User wrote: »

County shc last 16 from Tipp GAA site

How do fellow tipp supporters?

What way do ye see this wknd's SHC going?

I would be picking the following,

Borrisoleigh
Drom & Inch
Toomevarra
Loughmore Castleiney.

The potentail semi's of
Drom & Inch v Clonoulty
Loughmore Castleiney v Mullinahone
Thurles Sars v Toomevarra
Portroe v Borrisoleigh

That is a cracking line up if all the above win this wknd.

buggy beag

interesting piece in the sun today about outside managers.in hurling and football no outside manager has won either hurling or football in ten years and only 2 have got to finals and one of them was waterford v kilkenny and we know how that turned out,also a quote from jim mcguiness "thats whats driving me on the will to succeed with my OWN county" also taken from the same piece.thoughts anyone?:)

buggy beag

carryharry wrote: »

How do fellow tipp supporters?

What way do ye see this wknd's SHC going?

I would be picking the following,

Borrisoleigh
Drom & Inch
Toomevarra
Loughmore Castleiney.

The potentail semi's of
Drom & Inch v Clonoulty
Loughmore Castleiney v Mullinahone
Thurles Sars v Toomevarra
Portroe v Borrisoleigh

That is a cracking line up if all the above win this wknd.

ya pretty much agree with that to.if that is the quarter final line up be tough choosing between them like you said a cracking line up.

premierstone

carryharry wrote: »

How do fellow tipp supporters?

What way do ye see this wknd's SHC going?

I would be picking the following,

Borrisoleigh
Drom & Inch
Toomevarra
Loughmore Castleiney.

The potentail semi's of
Drom & Inch v Clonoulty
Loughmore Castleiney v Mullinahone
Thurles Sars v Toomevarra
Portroe v Borrisoleigh

That is a cracking line up if all the above win this wknd.

For this weekends games, of the four outsiders I think the only two with any chance are Eire Og Anacarthy and Kildangan, Eire og are very underestimated, extremely fit and well drilled outfit, while Kildangan actaully beatr Toom last year and this year since former county man Daragh Egan has gone in to the goals look a much better team.

Loughmore and Drom will win pulling up.

buggy beag

buggy beag wrote: »

interesting piece in the sun today about outside managers.in hurling and football no outside manager has won either hurling or football in ten years and only 2 have got to finals and one of them was waterford v kilkenny and we know how that turned out,also a quote from jim mcguiness "thats whats driving me on the will to succeed with my OWN county" also taken from the same piece.thoughts anyone?:)

The difference with Jim McGuinness though Buggy is that he is a very clued in man who is in touch with the modern game and training methods. I dont think we have any young coaches that are clued in as much apart from the management team from the Sheedy era. Others showing alot of promise like Ken Hogan and William Maher but i doubt they would be ready for the senior job or perhaps would they even want it?

While statistics are not in the favour of the outside manager i think in alot of cases huge progress has been made in alot of counties. Justin made Waterford into a competitive force and while they still lacked something he made them into a team that others feared playing. You had to dig really deep to beat Waterford from 02-07 and id imagine it wasn't easy controlling that dressing room.
Seamus Hickey of Limerick said he didn't even know how to block properly until Donal O'Grady took over. OK id agree that in nearly all cases the All ireland title isnt there to back up the call for an outside manager.

I suppose i think we should at the very least be open to the prospect and stop worrying how we'll look to the other counties if we were to go down that route because at this point in time we really cant look any worse. At the same time it should be done within reason. I wouldnt throw any outsider in for the sake of it. It would have to be the right one, ala, a Donal O'Grady

I will praise Michael Ryan (Fethard) and his management team though for the terrific job they done in landing us the Intermediate title recently.

Michael is from a relatively weak hurling area in Fethard yet he has led Tipperary Intermediates to their first title in 12 years so maybe the pool of managerial talent isn't as bad in the county as I thought. Id like to see him involved in someway in a future senior set up if he so wishes as he had our intermediates playing a nice brand of hurling

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

I will praise Michael Ryan (Fethard) and his management team though for the terrific job they done in landing us the Intermediate title recently.

Michael is from a relatively weak hurling area in Fethard yet he has led Tipperary Intermediates to their first title in 12 years so maybe the pool of managerial talent isn't as bad in the county as I thought. Id like to see him involved in someway in a future senior set up if he so wishes as he had our intermediates playing a nice brand of hurling

To be fair they had a huge advantage over the previous 12 years in that they could pick from senior clubs, last year was the first time that was permitted.