The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2012

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

To be fair they had a huge advantage over the previous 12 years in that they could pick from senior clubs, last year was the first time that was permitted.

Very true also although i really do wonder about the true level of some of our senior clubs. I think at least 16 of them are between two stools. Too good for intermediate but not good enough for senior.

the amount of one sided games we had this year is very worrying. I mean Carrick Swan for example with all due respect to them are in the last 12 by virtue of being South Runners up but i really do fear for them on Saturday.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Very true also although i really do wonder about the true level of some of our senior clubs. I think at least 16 of them are between two stools. Too good for intermediate but not good enough for senior.

the amount of one sided games we had this year is very worrying. I mean Carrick Swan for example with all due respect to them are in the last 12 by virtue of being South Runners up but i really do fear for them on Saturday.

Ah shur gunner its the elephant in the room, 32 senior clubs is beyong laughable, 24 would be more realistic, if not 16.

This would not only improve the standard of the senior championship but it would also increas the standard and the competitiveness of the Intermdiate, the problem at the moment is the Intermediate has fall so much that teams that know they are not good enough for senior refuse to drop back because it will ruin then, but if a few went back together this probelm would be averted.

Personally I think they should scrap the county league and run the divisional championships during those months and any team can enter the divisional championship be they senior, Intermediate or Junior. Then you run your County Championship as a completly seperate competition, with say 4 groups of 6/4 and the four divisional teams seeded.

The reason I think its important to seperate the Divisional Championships is because if you reduce the number of senior teams to 24/16 chances are the west and possibly the south would be reduced to 2 maybe 3 teams each reducing their championships to a farce.

carryharry

premierstone wrote: »

Ah shur gunner its the elephant in the room, 32 senior clubs is beyong laughable, 24 would be more realistic, if not 16.

This would not only improve the standard of the senior championship but it would also increas the standard and the competitiveness of the Intermdiate, the problem at the moment is the Intermediate has fall so much that teams that know they are not good enough for senior refuse to drop back because it will ruin then, but if a few went back together this probelm would be averted.

Personally I think they should scrap the county league and run the divisional championships during those months and any team can enter the divisional championship be they senior, Intermediate or Junior. Then you run your County Championship as a completly seperate competition, with say 4 groups of 6/4 and the four divisional teams seeded.

The reason I think its important to seperate the Divisional Championships is because if you reduce the number of senior teams to 24/16 chances are the west and possibly the south would be reduced to 2 maybe 3 teams each reducing their championships to a farce.

My opinion on the Tipp SHC is that we have 8-10 too many Senior Clubs.

We need to run our divisional championships separately so that existing Senior clubs (who should not be ) can still win a title in their division.

The County championship should be run on its own as an open championship and scrap the County league. That league has a load of nothing matches with fringe players playing the games and no local interest. A complete waste of time.

Of the 32 Senior teams we have now, the following imo are onlt good enough to call themselves Senior standard

North division
Portroe
Toomevarra
Nenagh
Burgess
Kildangan
Borrisoleigh
Kilruane McDonaghs
Roscrea
Templederry

Mid division
Thurles Sars
Drom & Inch
Loughmore Castleiney
JK Brackens



West division
Clonoulty Rossmore
Eire Og Annacarthy

South division
Mullinahone
Killenaule
Carrick Swans

Imo, the teams above are just about right for Senior standard. It leaves 18 teams run over a league basis, home & away games that would bring followers to them. Top 8 teams qualify for 1/4 final.
Bottom 4 go into play offs to drop to a B league?

Probably better idea's out there, but anything would be better than the existing championship with so many non competitve games.

A B championship could have teams like,

Moneygall
Boherlahann Dualla
Holycross
Upperchurch Drombane
Borrisokane
Cashel King Cormacs
Knockavilla Kickhams
Golden Kilfeacle
Ballingarry
Carrick Davins
Lorrha/Dorrha
Cappawhite
Aherlow
Gortnahoe Glengoole
Moycarkey Borris
Moyne Templetouhy

There are a few Intermediate teams who could join that list too.

Opinions?

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

Ah shur gunner its the elephant in the room, 32 senior clubs is beyong laughable, 24 would be more realistic, if not 16.

This would not only improve the standard of the senior championship but it would also increas the standard and the competitiveness of the Intermdiate, the problem at the moment is the Intermediate has fall so much that teams that know they are not good enough for senior refuse to drop back because it will ruin then, but if a few went back together this probelm would be averted.

Personally I think they should scrap the county league and run the divisional championships during those months and any team can enter the divisional championship be they senior, Intermediate or Junior. Then you run your County Championship as a completly seperate competition, with say 4 groups of 6/4 and the four divisional teams seeded.

The reason I think its important to separate the Divisional Championships is because if you reduce the number of senior teams to 24/16 chances are the west and possibly the south would be reduced to 2 maybe 3 teams each reducing their championships to a farce.

On that note, are the divisional championships a bit redundant to be honest? I mean really i think the only benefits they serve is utilising as much venues as possible around the county and keeping transport costs down. If they done as you suggest though and maybe have a south championship where every hurler possible can play in it however allowing for amalgamations (i.e St Patricks/Grangemockler-Ballyneale) then we could be on to a winner. Run it separate from the county championship.

carryharry wrote: »

My opinion on the Tipp SHC is that we have 8-10 too many Senior Clubs.

We need to run our divisional championships separately so that existing Senior clubs (who should not be ) can still win a title in their division.

The County championship should be run on its own as an open championship and scrap the County league. That league has a load of nothing matches with fringe players playing the games and no local interest. A complete waste of time.

Of the 32 Senior teams we have now, the following imo are onlt good enough to call themselves Senior standard

North division
Portroe
Toomevarra
Nenagh
Burgess
Kildangan
Borrisoleigh
Kilruane McDonaghs
Roscrea
Templederry

Mid division
Thurles Sars
Drom & Inch
Loughmore Castleiney
JK Brackens



West division
Clonoulty Rossmore
Eire Og Annacarthy

South division
Mullinahone
Killenaule
Carrick Swans

Imo, the teams above are just about right for Senior standard. It leaves 18 teams run over a league basis, home & away games that would bring followers to them. Top 8 teams qualify for 1/4 final.
Bottom 4 go into play offs to drop to a B league?

Probably better idea's out there, but anything would be better than the existing championship with so many non competitve games.

A B championship could have teams like,

Moneygall
Boherlahann Dualla
Holycross
Upperchurch Drombane
Borrisokane
Cashel King Cormacs
Knockavilla Kickhams
Golden Kilfeacle
Ballingarry
Carrick Davins
Lorrha/Dorrha
Cappawhite
Aherlow
Gortnahoe Glengoole
Moycarkey Borris
Moyne Templetouhy

There are a few Intermediate teams who could join that list too.

Opinions?

if you take the SOR runners and the relegation finalists this year + a few teams like Silvermines, Gortnahoe, Clonakenny, Ballybacon, etc who are strong intermediate then you could have an excellent Senior B/Premier Intermediate Championship.

Going to Junior id have to wonder about the viability of clubs like Marlfield. The reason they were as competitive during the Theo English era for as long as they were is because they were drawing talent from the local primary school. When the primary school closed down they suffered badly. Youngsters then went to primary in Clonmel and other nearby areas and opted to play Gaelic with the friends they made in these schools understandably.

buggy beag

Deleted User wrote: »

The difference with Jim McGuinness though Buggy is that he is a very clued in man who is in touch with the modern game and training methods. I dont think we have any young coaches that are clued in as much apart from the management team from the Sheedy era. Others showing alot of promise like Ken Hogan and William Maher but i doubt they would be ready for the senior job or perhaps would they even want it?

While statistics are not in the favour of the outside manager i think in alot of cases huge progress has been made in alot of counties. Justin made Waterford into a competitive force and while they still lacked something he made them into a team that others feared playing. You had to dig really deep to beat Waterford from 02-07 and id imagine it wasn't easy controlling that dressing room.
Seamus Hickey of Limerick said he didn't even know how to block properly until Donal O'Grady took over. OK id agree that in nearly all cases the All ireland title isnt there to back up the call for an outside manager.

I suppose i think we should at the very least be open to the prospect and stop worrying how we'll look to the other counties if we were to go down that route because at this point in time we really cant look any worse. At the same time it should be done within reason. I wouldnt throw any outsider in for the sake of it. It would have to be the right one, ala, a Donal O'Grady

ya i agree about mcguiness that he is very in touch with tactics and the modern game but what he also brings is a passion and a love for his county that i just dont think you will get with an outside manager.say we did have o grady and tipp and cork met in a semi ive no doubt he would try his hardest for the win but if they lost he still wouldnt feel the same pain of losing because his county is still in the final.ya im afraid people will always look to statistics in any arguement and its hard to argue with them.the last manager was bond in 1998 and he took over mid season from another out of county manager and we see it countless times in soccer when a manager takes over mid season how he can transform them from crap to great only for them to resort back to their usual standard the next season after the initial feel good lets try and impress the new manager buzz wears off so it was possibly that that won them the al ireland that year as opposed to bond being a genius.just on the point of "huge progress" id really like to believe that were not as bad as waterford or limerick were and that we have huge progress to make.the men you mentioned did wonders for them counties but they came and had to start from scratch but i believe were not that far from an ireland winning team again we just need sumone with the passion to fire up a dressing room we have skill coming out our ears just the drive and willingness to die for the man beside you and the blue and gold population is sadly lacking at the moment:(

tonyduggan

Right lads, a bit of positive talk, what would yer starting 15 be the first round of the munster next year?

I'll give it a go with a few changes from this year

Cummins

Saint-COM-Cahill

COB-Paudie-B.Maher

Noel Mc-Shane Mc

Gar-Bonner-Johno

Buggy-Callinan-Pa

I suppose the biggest change, and this is only my fairly uneducated opinion, but I dunno is Lars presence on the panel worth it any more. The dropping off the panel, the story about why he didnt score in the munster final, the side show in the semi final, the being a minute late out for the second half, the articles in the indo, the pub being mentioned at every waking opportunity. (on a side note, did any of ye see his article the week before the kk game? i thought twas borderline disgraceful) You'd wonder what effect that would have on a team that needs to develop maturity fast. I reckon if he can get back on form and leave his incident where it belongs, in the past, Callinan could play a huge role next year. Ive never understood why he wasnt given a full game at FF. Any time he has moved in there he has been his most dangerous, he could be lethal.

As for the backs, its clear something has to be done. Is anyone going to fill this number 5 spot? I think the only real option, unless either Tom Stapelton comes on a fair bit, or a new corner/wing back falls from heaven in the winter, moving brendan back there is the only choice. God what you wouldnt give for eamon corcoran to be 5 or 6 years younger. Noel then to centre field to fill the gap. Woodlock could be in with a shout too, but i wouldnt know myself hows he goin in training etc... Theres always gar ryan too, but ive gone for noel at any rate. Maybe im being a bit harsh on paul curran too, a great servant no doubt, but his legs were gone against kk, and thats the level we have to be aiming for.

That leaves a fairly strong bench with it too. i reckon bubbles will make the panel next year anyway so thats more firepower to come on when needed, and i would hope Kelly gives it another year, his presence is invaluable to the team.

What do ye think anyway? I was torn between gar and shane bourke for the last spot in the forwards but id say another year as impact sub would be best for shane, he can really turn a game when called upon.

ormond lad

tonyduggan wrote: »

Right lads, a bit of positive talk, what would yer starting 15 be the first round of the munster next year?

I'll give it a go with a few changes from this year

Cummins

Saint-COM-Cahill

COB-Paudie-B.Maher

Noel Mc-Shane Mc

Gar-Bonner-Johno

Buggy-Callinan-Pa

I suppose the biggest change, and this is only my fairly uneducated opinion, but I dunno is Lars presence on the panel worth it any more. The dropping off the panel, the story about why he didnt score in the munster final, the side show in the semi final, the being a minute late out for the second half, the articles in the indo, the pub being mentioned at every waking opportunity. (on a side note, did any of ye see his article the week before the kk game? i thought twas borderline disgraceful) You'd wonder what effect that would have on a team that needs to develop maturity fast. I reckon if he can get back on form and leave his incident where it belongs, in the past, Callinan could play a huge role next year. Ive never understood why he wasnt given a full game at FF. Any time he has moved in there he has been his most dangerous, he could be lethal.

As for the backs, its clear something has to be done. Is anyone going to fill this number 5 spot? I think the only real option, unless either Tom Stapelton comes on a fair bit, or a new corner/wing back falls from heaven in the winter, moving brendan back there is the only choice. God what you wouldnt give for eamon corcoran to be 5 or 6 years younger. Noel then to centre field to fill the gap. Woodlock could be in with a shout too, but i wouldnt know myself hows he goin in training etc... Theres always gar ryan too, but ive gone for noel at any rate. Maybe im being a bit harsh on paul curran too, a great servant no doubt, but his legs were gone against kk, and thats the level we have to be aiming for.

That leaves a fairly strong bench with it too. i reckon bubbles will make the panel next year anyway so thats more firepower to come on when needed, and i would hope Kelly gives it another year, his presence is invaluable to the team.

What do ye think anyway? I was torn between gar and shane bourke for the last spot in the forwards but id say another year as impact sub would be best for shane, he can really turn a game when called upon.

TBH i wouldnt be looking that far ahead. Some big changes are needed and the opening championship game is 8 months, a winter and a national league before the championship. id be much more interested in whatever squad the new management team bring in for their first few training sessions and games

tonyduggan

ormond lad wrote: »

TBH i wouldnt be looking that far ahead. Some big changes are needed and the opening championship game is 8 months, a winter and a national league before the championship. id be much more interested in whatever squad the new management team bring in for their first few training sessions and games

The squad will hardly change that much in fairness, is there anyone in the county not on the panel you think could make a serious run at the startin 15?

greyhound365

tonyduggan wrote: »

The squad will hardly change that much in fairness, is there anyone in the county not on the panel you think could make a serious run at the startin 15?

Denis Maher, for sars, should definitely get a spot on the panel.big lad with huge potential.I think a few of those u21s from this year should certainly be on, likes of bubbles and such.
Not to seem critical of your point, but i don't think there's any hidden gem, realistically, who hasn't got the recognition they deserve.

greyhound365

tonyduggan wrote: »

Right lads, a bit of positive talk, what would yer starting 15 be the first round of the munster next year?

I'll give it a go with a few changes from this year

Cummins

Saint-COM-Cahill

COB-Paudie-B.Maher

Noel Mc-Shane Mc

Gar-Bonner-Johno

Buggy-Callinan-Pa

I suppose the biggest change, and this is only my fairly uneducated opinion, but I dunno is Lars presence on the panel worth it any more. The dropping off the panel, the story about why he didnt score in the munster final, the side show in the semi final, the being a minute late out for the second half, the articles in the indo, the pub being mentioned at every waking opportunity. (on a side note, did any of ye see his article the week before the kk game? i thought twas borderline disgraceful) You'd wonder what effect that would have on a team that needs to develop maturity fast. I reckon if he can get back on form and leave his incident where it belongs, in the past, Callinan could play a huge role next year. Ive never understood why he wasnt given a full game at FF. Any time he has moved in there he has been his most dangerous, he could be lethal.

As for the backs, its clear something has to be done. Is anyone going to fill this number 5 spot? I think the only real option, unless either Tom Stapelton comes on a fair bit, or a new corner/wing back falls from heaven in the winter, moving brendan back there is the only choice. God what you wouldnt give for eamon corcoran to be 5 or 6 years younger. Noel then to centre field to fill the gap. Woodlock could be in with a shout too, but i wouldnt know myself hows he goin in training etc... Theres always gar ryan too, but ive gone for noel at any rate. Maybe im being a bit harsh on paul curran too, a great servant no doubt, but his legs were gone against kk, and thats the level we have to be aiming for.

That leaves a fairly strong bench with it too. i reckon bubbles will make the panel next year anyway so thats more firepower to come on when needed, and i would hope Kelly gives it another year, his presence is invaluable to the team.

What do ye think anyway? I was torn between gar and shane bourke for the last spot in the forwards but id say another year as impact sub would be best for shane, he can really turn a game when called upon.

I think John o' keefe from clonoulty is severly underrated merely for his size. the man more than makes up for it with his tenacity and smart use of the ball and one of my biggest criticisms of our half back line would be the way the drive the ball into the sky and it comes down to the forwards with snow on top of it. Not to put young okeefe on a pedestal, but he's always given low fast ball, and i felt he got a raw deal merely due to his performance in the 2011 final on shefflin

carryharry

My idea of a team for 2013 for what its worth pending a few retirements.

Cummins ( Gleeson if Brendan walks )
Saint
P Maher
M Cahill
T Stapleton
COM
B Maher
S Hennessey
G Ryan
S Callinan
N McGrath
B Maher
Johno ( Shane Bourke if Johno walks )
Buggy
Pa Bourke

Brendan Maher at midfield does not work anymore, Shane McGrath has had his chance imo.
P Maher is our only option full back if P Curran retires.

Lar is finished imo, his head was on everthing bar hurling this year and it showed. No excuses for his carry on in the spring imo.

Eoin will hopefully stay on and fight for a place but at this stage a role from the bench is probably all we can wish for.

Lads worth bringing in?
For me Brian Stapleton needs introducing to the new set up, with good training i see a big future for him.
Michael Heffernan from Nenagh too, he needs to make an impact soon though as years are drifting away for him.
Christy Coughlan impressed me for the Intermediates and is surely worth a look.

The most puzzling one for me this year gone was Sean Curran making the Senior panel ahead of Bubbles!
Bubbles was the stand out man for the U21's and deserves a chance at this stage.

greyhound365

carryharry wrote: »

My idea of a team for 2013 for what its worth pending a few retirements.

Cummins ( Gleeson if Brendan walks )
Saint
P Maher
M Cahill
T Stapleton
COM
B Maher
S Hennessey
G Ryan
S Callinan
N McGrath
B Maher
Johno ( Shane Bourke if Johno walks )
Buggy
Pa Bourke

Brendan Maher at midfield does not work anymore, Shane McGrath has had his chance imo.
P Maher is our only option full back if P Curran retires.

Lar is finished imo, his head was on everthing bar hurling this year and it showed. No excuses for his carry on in the spring imo.

Eoin will hopefully stay on and fight for a place but at this stage a role from the bench is probably all we can wish for.

Lads worth bringing in?
For me Brian Stapleton needs introducing to the new set up, with good training i see a big future for him.
Michael Heffernan from Nenagh too, he needs to make an impact soon though as years are drifting away for him.
Christy Coughlan impressed me for the Intermediates and is surely worth a look.

The most puzzling one for me this year gone was Sean Curran making the Senior panel ahead of Bubbles!
Bubbles was the stand out man for the U21's and deserves a chance at this stage.

i think you're being overly harsh on shane mcgrath, he certainly showed a lotta guts and heart this year when some lads on the team had no real interest. as for the brendan maher situation, lets not forget how potent he was at midfield, under sheedy.agree with your point on lar though, however i feel that we need eoin kelly somewhere on the team. I find it hard to believe that we would've lost by that margin to kk if eoin was on the field considering his leadership qualities.When the s**t hit the fan in the 2nd half i think someone to lead those younger forwards would have been vital, cos in all fairness larry wouldnt lead lemmings to the sea

Davin Stand

greyhound365 wrote: »

Denis Maher, for sars, should definitely get a spot on the panel.big lad with huge potential.I think a few of those u21s from this year should certainly be on, likes of bubbles and such.
Not to seem critical of your point, but i don't think there's any hidden gem, realistically, who hasn't got the recognition they deserve.

I don't know how you rate Denis Maher so highly. The Under 21's played 3 Munster Championship matches this year and I think he was taken off in 2 of them. Bubbles is a far better player. I think it is important that some new players get their chance next year. IMO we need some new blood in the panel and not just the same players in different positions which is what some posters seem to be going for. Having said that, I suppose it is fair to say that our Under 21 or Intermediate teams did not appear to have too many future Senior stars.

tonyduggan

greyhound365 wrote: »

Denis Maher, for sars, should definitely get a spot on the panel.big lad with huge potential.I think a few of those u21s from this year should certainly be on, likes of bubbles and such.
Not to seem critical of your point, but i don't think there's any hidden gem, realistically, who hasn't got the recognition they deserve.

twasnt my point at all, i was just responding to ormondlad. denis is paudies cousin isnt he?

i see sheamus hennessey being mentioned, god if he was blessed with a bit of luck this year in the injury department we'd be flyin. i think he's back playing club hurling anyway, maybe a run out in the league could see how hes goin. hed be some addition alright.

Denis Maher looked unstoppable for Tipp u21s against Kilkenny in 2 challenges in the number 6 shirt where in the first game in Ballyragget he destroyed Walter Walsh but apart from his tally against limerick he failed to impress me on any area of the field. I think the 2 Ryan brothers from Clonakenny look like great prospects along with Bubbles. Id give young Hamill and Jason Forde the call to train with the seniors next year also.

There is no doubting that the personnel are there but the guidance, the leadership, the tactics and the bite needs to be there from the management next year also.

it's not sour grapes to say this but if Kilkenny and Galway had a set-up like we had this year then the result would be the exact same for them. They are blessed to have the expertise in charge that they have. For Cody in particular to be able to motivate each and every player for the start of every new year is a credit to him

I think Lar is taking far too much flack for the failings of the team the last two years.

He hasnt done anything that he wasnt asked to do the last two seasons and we have short memories. I felt for a lad who only returned to the panel in May he played reasonably well and i was heartened to see him give back a few shoulders the last game.

He has been a great servant to the panel. If a business man wants to plug his pub then especially in these tough times i see absolutely no problem with that. It was ourselves who all blew Lar up and expected miracles from him. We all hyped him up so much that of course he was going to be a marked man in 2011. I enjoyed the 'Lar outside' song when it came out as much as anyone but i realise now how ridiculous it was and what it could have cost us

If the panel were genuinely 'affected' by his coming and going this year then they hid it well and i think some of the younger players have completely lost focus of their own volition.

They need to refocus and remember the hunger that won them the all ireland because the boat is sailing out and it waits for no one. Before they know it their career will be over and they may have only one medal to show for their talents. It would be an awful shame but i cant help thinking this sort of arrognace has been in Tipperary hurling since we started to lose our grip on our dominance in the mid to late 60's

carryharry

Well done to Eire Og Annacarthy on securing a 1/4 final spot after beating Borrisoleigh today 1-17 to 0-17. They now face North champions Portroe.

Nice to see a team other than Clonoulty representing the West division.

Poor Borris have no luck when it comes to knock out stuff.

greyhound365

Deleted User wrote: »

Denis Maher looked unstoppable for Tipp u21s against Kilkenny in 2 challenges in the number 6 shirt where in the first game in Ballyragget he destroyed Walter Walsh but apart from his tally against limerick he failed to impress me on any area of the field. I think the 2 Ryan brothers from Clonakenny look like great prospects along with Bubbles. Id give young Hamill and Jason Forde the call to train with the seniors next year also.

There is no doubting that the personnel are there but the guidance, the leadership, the tactics and the bite needs to be there from the management next year also.

it's not sour grapes to say this but if Kilkenny and Galway had a set-up like we had this year then the result would be the exact same for them. They are blessed to have the expertise in charge that they have. For Cody in particular to be able to motivate each and every player for the start of every new year is a credit to him

Lets not forget mark mccarthy from toom:)

Davin Stand

Mark McCarthy is still under age for minor next year and is nowhere near ready for Senior (or Under 21) Hurling. Give the younger lads a chance. Don't build them up too much.

greyhound365

greyhound365 wrote: »

Lets not forget mark mccarthy from toom:)

McCarthy is a savage talented kid. he is young yet but is definately one to keep an eye on. hope he comes through the ranks.

Toom havent had a young Tipp player in a while so its great to see McCarthy flying the flag. He has credentials but has a long road ahead of him.

Was talking to a member of the Tipperary senior panel last night and he told me that the management had them doing a 16k run down in Bear Island a few weeks before the semi final and that Eoin Kelly done his groin doing it. Lads in all honesty that's madness so near a big game. Surely this time of year all the work must be done with the hurley and ball or am i wrong?

Red Crow

Deleted User wrote: »

Was talking to a member of the Tipperary senior panel last night and he told me that the management had them doing a 16k run down in Bear Island a few weeks before the semi final and that Eoin Kelly done his groin doing it. Lads in all honesty that's madness so near a big game. Surely this time of year all the work must be done with the hurley and ball or am i wrong?

I think the previous management did the best they could but they were completely out of their depth. This year we played poor all year and were stuttering throughout the Munster championship.

It seemed as if lads weren't sticking to their positions and our full back line has been getting a roasting all year and nothing was done about it. We were consistently caught out of position in key areas. We lacked the hunger and intensity. The team were very much in first gear all year. Looking back Waterford papered over a lot of the cracks. From hearing from various players and sources I don't think some of the lads agreed with what was going on and if you can't buy the managers and the trainers ideas and you're training thinking this is a waste of time then your not going to win anything.

I don't think the respect was there and we were a team who should of moved up a gear instead we stagnated and declined in many ways. In hindsight I'd say it was fairly evident something was wrong for a long time and unfortunately nothing was done about it. But definitely the last management team have to shoulder most of the blame and the last two years will go down as being very, very disappointing outings despite us doing Munster twice. That's not my expectations of this team being too high, that's this team clearly performing miles under par of their capability and letting themselves down on the big day in Croke Park twice.

Hopefully that energy and hunger we saw under Sheedy and co returns sooner rather than later.

Eli Manning

Eli Manning wrote: »

I think the previous management did the best they could but they were completely out of their depth. This year we played poor all year and were stuttering throughout the Munster championship.

It seemed as if lads weren't sticking to their positions and our full back line has been getting a roasting all year and nothing was done about it. We were consistently caught out of position in key areas. We lacked the hunger and intensity. The team were very much in first gear all year. Looking back Waterford papered over a lot of the cracks. From hearing from various players and sources I don't think some of the lads agreed with what was going on and if you can't buy the managers and the trainers ideas and you're training thinking this is a waste of time then your not going to win anything.

I don't think the respect was there and we were a team who should of moved up a gear instead we stagnated and declined in many ways. In hindsight I'd say it was fairly evident something was wrong for a long time and unfortunately nothing was done about it. But definitely the last management team have to shoulder most of the blame and the last two years will go down as being very, very disappointing outings despite us doing Munster twice. That's not my expectations of this team being too high, that's this team clearly performing miles under par of their capability and letting themselves down on the big day in Croke Park twice.

Hopefully that energy and hunger we saw under Sheedy and co returns sooner rather than later.

Excellent post sir.

carryharry

Toomevarra out of Tipp SHC.

Kildangan 2-19 Toomevarra 0-15

carryharry

Deleted User wrote: »

Excellent post sir.

+1

If the CB get the man they want then we should be okay.

O'Shea is no1 choice, so a reliable source told me yesterday.

The make up of such a management team to support Eamon would be very interesting.

ReacherCreature

I didn't know that St. Marys of Clonmel had a hurling team. Ballybacon-Grange beat them at the weekend.

carryharry

ReacherCreature wrote: »

I didn't know that St. Marys of Clonmel had a hurling team. Ballybacon-Grange beat them at the weekend.

Same players mostly, Clonmel Commercials in Football and St Marys in the Hurling.

Ballybacon will have a good shout at winning the Intermediate this year.

daniels.ducks

carryharry wrote: »

Same players mostly, Clonmel Commercials in Football and St Marys in the Hurling.

Ballybacon will have a good shout at winning the Intermediate this year.

Sorry now but if you come down from senior and struggle to beat an average enough intermediate team in the south then you'll find it difficult to win a county title.

carryharry

daniels.ducks wrote: »

Sorry now but if you come down from senior and struggle to beat an average enough intermediate team in the south then you'll find it difficult to win a county title.

Agreed daniel, but their experience of last year will drive them on bigtime.

Clonakenny won the Mid yesterday so they can't be bad.

How did Gortnahoe go in the Mid does nayone know? They contested the County final last year so was surprised they didn't make a mid final.

tonyduggan

carryharry wrote: »

Ballybacon will have a good shout at winning the Intermediate this year.

Unless Cashel say otherwise!