The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2012

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

Has Eamon 0 Shea said this himself officially?

The county board stated that the 3 preferred candidates ruled themselves out. read here

Eamon O'Shea and Liam Sheedy have ruled themselves out of the running to become the next Tipperary hurling manager.

Both have cited work commitments as their reason for not being in a position to take the job. And with Nicky English having also ruled out the prospect of returning to the role after a decade's absence, the search for Declan Ryan's successor is becoming increasingly desperate.

O'Shea, who was coach to the Tipperary team which Liam Sheedy managed to All-Ireland glory two years ago, was seen as the most likely to candidate to succeed Ryan, who stepped down in the wake of last year's humiliating All-Ireland semi-final defeat to Kilkenny.

Tipperary chairman Sean Nugent has admitted the chances of having a name to put before next Tuesday's county board meeting are slim.

"We had an executive meeting on Tuesday night. Naturally enough we discussed it, but in terms of a candidate, there is nothing to report," he said in The Irish Daily Star.

"None of those leaders in the field have put their hands up and said that they will do it. They'd love to do it but because of work commitments, it's not possible at the moment."

Now that the best and the brightest have ruled themselves out perhaps it is time for the 9 men to get real and keep an outsider as an option in the very least.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

The county board stated that the 3 preferred candidates ruled themselves out. read here



Now that the best and the brightest have ruled themselves out perhaps it is time for the 9 men to get real and keep an outsider as an option in the very least.

The only crumb of comfort we can take from this is the reference in the final sentence that work commitments are an issue ''at the moment'', perhaps there is a possibility that circumstances may change, certainly from the rumours I had been hearing Eamon O'Shea was a done deal, but he wanted to pick he's own manager/selectors etc. but the Committee weren't allowing him to, if that is true it would seem like a stand off of sorts with both parties willing to call the others bluff, for the sake of hurling in Tipp I hope the Committee blink forst or we are well and truely up the shi*ter.

Davin Stand

I don't understand your reference to Eamonn O'Shea wanting to pick his own manager/selectors. Surely he would be manager himself and might want to pick (or suggest) the selectors. With his job in NUIG work commitments were always going to be a major factor. I think it is time that the County Board got a move on and appointed the Manager. At this rate the County Championships will be over and we will still not have a manager for the senior hurlers. Personally, I would have no problem at all with an outside manager, but the County Chairman stated at the start of the search for a manager, that he would be getting a P. 45 if they suggested an outside manager. It looks like they have painted themselves into a corner by ruling out even considering an outside man.

premierstone

Davin Stand wrote: »

I don't understand your reference to Eamonn O'Shea wanting to pick his own manager/selectors. Surely he would be manager himself and might want to pick (or suggest) the selectors. With his job in NUIG work commitments were always going to be a major factor.

Eamonn O'Shea is a coach AFAIK he has never managed any team, certainly not at a high level.

As for the work commitments, he has been in discussions with the Committee for the last two weeks, has he's job changed since, its spin or BS whichever way you want to dress it up.

Davin Stand

Are you saying that the County Board want Eamonn O'Shea as Coach and he wants to pick the Manager and Selectors. We have been told for the last few weeks that the County Bopard are looking to appoint a Manager for the Senior Hurling team. Now we are being told that the Coach wants to pick the Manager. Surely that is putting the cart before the horse. I take your point that Eamonn O'Shea has never managed a team, but this is something that the County Board should have thought of before now. Are you suggesting that he has agreed to be coach and not manager, provided he can pick who will be manager, because when you think about it that may well be what is happening. Anyway, it is a complete mess at this stage.

Davin Stand

Davin Stand wrote: »

I don't understand your reference to Eamonn O'Shea wanting to pick his own manager/selectors. Surely he would be manager himself and might want to pick (or suggest) the selectors. With his job in NUIG work commitments were always going to be a major factor. I think it is time that the County Board got a move on and appointed the Manager. At this rate the County Championships will be over and we will still not have a manager for the senior hurlers. Personally, I would have no problem at all with an outside manager, but the County Chairman stated at the start of the search for a manager, that he would be getting a P. 45 if they suggested an outside manager. It looks like they have painted themselves into a corner by ruling out even considering an outside man.

That would be great tbh. He should take the other 8 on the committee with him and leave proper people run GAA in Tipperary for a change.

Davin Stand

Are things really that bad. Whatever you say, Tipperary is one of the most sucessful GAA counties. Why would these "proper people" that you talk about not get their clubs to nominate them for positions on the County Board and we will see if they can do any better. I will not be holding my breath. It is much easier to criticise than to actually do anything.

Davin Stand

Davin Stand wrote: »

Are things really that bad. Whatever you say, Tipperary is one of the most sucessful GAA counties. Why would these "proper people" that you talk about not get their clubs to nominate them for positions on the County Board and we will see if they can do any better. I will not be holding my breath. It is much easier to criticise than to actually do anything.

Tipperary have won 5 all senior hurling Ireland's since 1965. We can talk about hurling heritage and tradition all we like but in terms of the modern game we are also rans and considering the population we have its pretty pathetic to consider ourselves any better then what we are in my view.

The fact is that just like politics in Ireland, the organisation has become rotten to the core and the people who are getting into power are the very ones overseeing overpopulated senior championships, all Ireland droughts, relegation saga's, codes becoming weak, fixture saga's and budget deficits and quite frankly it's just not good enough any more.

I couldn't tell you any names that are better but surely its more about common sense at this stage. We had 9 men set up to pick a manager from an extremely small list of candidates made even smaller by an outdated policy that he must be from the county.

Do you honestly and wholeheartedly think that these people are good enough to govern sport?

Its not just Tipperary. You see clubs around the country in the mire for taking financial risks with land and property during the boom and as cool as you like they want the government to come in and bail them out.

The whole culture and attitude of GAA officiating needs to change. As Liam Griffin once said 'You need smart people running this sport instead of gobsh*tes getting up at meetings roaring and shouting'.

Davin Stand

Davin Stand wrote: »

Are things really that bad. Whatever you say, Tipperary is one of the most sucessful GAA counties.

The last Tipp club to win an AI was in the 80's.

Would prefer if mgmt came from outside the county as politics within the GAA is, ahh, another story.

premierstone

NoDrama wrote: »

The last Tipp club to win an AI was in the 80's.

Would prefer if mgmt came from outside the county as politics within the GAA is, ahh, another story.

What outside manager has ever won an AI Hurling title??? Simply doesn't work and is not the solution.

Michael Bond is the only man that ever achieved it and that had fcuk all to do with him, a fact he would well acknoledge himself.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Tipperary have won 5 all senior hurling Ireland's since 1965. We can talk about hurling heritage and tradition all we like but in terms of the modern game we are also rans and considering the population we have its pretty pathetic to consider ourselves any better then what we are in my view.

The fact is that just like politics in Ireland, the organisation has become rotten to the core and the people who are getting into power are the very ones overseeing overpopulated senior championships, all Ireland droughts, relegation saga's, codes becoming weak, fixture saga's and budget deficits and quite frankly it's just not good enough any more.

I couldn't tell you any names that are better but surely its more about common sense at this stage. We had 9 men set up to pick a manager from an extremely small list of candidates made even smaller by an outdated policy that he must be from the county.

Do you honestly and wholeheartedly think that these people are good enough to govern sport?

Its not just Tipperary. You see clubs around the country in the mire for taking financial risks with land and property during the boom and as cool as you like they want the government to come in and bail them out.

The whole culture and attitude of GAA officiating needs to change. As Liam Griffin once said 'You need smart people running this sport instead of gobsh*tes getting up at meetings roaring and shouting'.

Agree with alot of your criticism Gunner, especially in relation to our continued notion of been a hurling superpower. But its not as simple as blaming the County Board Officers or indeed the Divisional Officers, there is no-one else willing to do the Jobs, as has been seen in many counties with the 5 year rule causing mayhem, no new blood has been forthcoming, people prefer to complain, and I'm not directing this at you Gunner, rather than actually be proactive about it.

premierstone

Davin Stand wrote: »

Are you saying that the County Board want Eamonn O'Shea as Coach and he wants to pick the Manager and Selectors. We have been told for the last few weeks that the County Bopard are looking to appoint a Manager for the Senior Hurling team. Now we are being told that the Coach wants to pick the Manager. Surely that is putting the cart before the horse. I take your point that Eamonn O'Shea has never managed a team, but this is something that the County Board should have thought of before now. Are you suggesting that he has agreed to be coach and not manager, provided he can pick who will be manager, because when you think about it that may well be what is happening. Anyway, it is a complete mess at this stage.

It may be a cart before the horse scenario, but yes, they wanted O'Shea to be involved he wanted just to be the Coach, they came back with a manager, someone who's name has been named in connection with the job from the outset and Eamonn told them he wasn't happy to work with the individual concerned, and so the stalemate began.

Davin Stand

Davin Stand wrote: »

It is very easy to throw allegations of stealing money at people working on the stiles at Thurles. Now you are telling us that we need to multiply the official attendance by 2. In all fairness, do you believe that there is really that much money stolen at Thurles every match. AFAIK the official attendance at Thurles last Saturday night was 9,500. Are you seriously suggesting that there were 19,000 spectators at the match. Get real and think before accusing people of that amount of theft.

Did i mention last Saturdays match? Or how much is stole per game? or accuse any individual of theft? But i feel the need to question the official figures they give at matches and rightly so.

This is the official figures from the Munster Gaa site.

County Ground: Semple Stadium

Capacity

• Covered Stand
  • Ardán O’Riain 10,058
  • Ardán O’Coinneain 10,319
• Uncovered Stand
  • Ardán O’Coinneain 5,800
• Sideline Seating
  • Town End Sideline 412
• Terrace
  • Killinan End 13,500
• Terrace
  
  • Town End 11,500
• Wheelchair Area
  • Ardán O’Riain 90

I was often in a fairly 90-95% full Ardan O'Riain (new) stand which fits over 10000 spectators only for the pa to announce the attendance as just over 3000....I mean come on now bit of a red flag there at the very least without needing to throw any accusations around

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Did i mention last Saturdays match? Or how much is stole per game? or accuse any individual of theft? But i feel the need to question the official figures they give at matches and rightly so.

This is the official figures from the Munster Gaa site.

County Ground: Semple Stadium

Capacity

• Covered Stand
  • Ardán O’Riain 10,058
  • Ardán O’Coinneain 10,319
• Uncovered Stand
  • Ardán O’Coinneain 5,800
• Sideline Seating
  • Town End Sideline 412
• Terrace
  • Killinan End 13,500
• Terrace
  
  • Town End 11,500
• Wheelchair Area
  • Ardán O’Riain 90

I was often in a fairly 90-95% full Ardan O'Riain (new) stand which fits over 10000 spectators only for the pa to announce the attendance as just over 3000....I mean come on now bit of a red flag there at the very least without needing to throw any accusations around

Indded and it wasn't today or yesterday this began, I remember been at a u-21 game a few years back and the ''official attendance'' was announced and there was an audiable laugh from the stand.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

Agree with alot of your criticism Gunner, especially in relation to our continued notion of been a hurling superpower. But its not as simple as blaming the County Board Officers or indeed the Divisional Officers, there is no-one else willing to do the Jobs, as has been seen in many counties with the 5 year rule causing mayhem, no new blood has been forthcoming, people prefer to complain, and I'm not directing this at you Gunner, rather than actually be proactive about it.

And thats fair enough and your right the buck cant just stop at the county boards door. The blame has to spread to the players and previous managers. i do think though when your in negotiations with a coach of Eamon O'Shea's calibre given the high esteem he is held in not just Tipperary circles but GAA circles (Jamesie O'Connor credtiing him a great deal for improving his game), then sensible people need to allow for a bit of flexibility and give Eamon a bit of ownership. Alot of counties would give anything for Eamon O'Shea to coach them. Galway even sounded him out about taking the job last year.


i have to say im unfamiliar with the 5 year rule?

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

i have to say im unfamiliar with the 5 year rule?

All serving members of the county board can only serve a maximum of 5 years, in a few counties we had a situation that when one officer's five years were up they would switch from being the chairman to the secetary and the secetary would change to become chairman, because no-one else put their names forward.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

All serving members of the county board can only serve a maximum of 5 years, in a few counties we had a situation that when one officer's five years were up they would switch from being the chairman to the secetary and the secetary would change to become chairman, because no-one else put their names forward.

Ah i see. In principle the rule is good as its with the intention of keeping things in someway fresh but its just a pity that no one will challenge the old order as there is a great need for a more intelligent approach to administering GAA.

If you could marry the qualities of having great business acumen and a great love for hurling and the county then you had the ideal type of person to run the sport but unfortunately they don't grow on trees and instead we are left with a real 'Bull McCabe' outdated style of doing things.

Whether its down to the best and the brightest not having the time to take these roles or a certain disillusionment and unwillingness to work alongside some of the status quo currently there i don't know.

carryharry

carryharry wrote: »

Agreed daniel, but their experience of last year will drive them on bigtime.

Clonakenny won the Mid yesterday so they can't be bad.

How did Gortnahoe go in the Mid does nayone know? They contested the County final last year so was surprised they didn't make a mid final.

Brian Horgan left Gortnahoe to take a selectors role with the Tipp minors and they've suffered under the new regime since i believe despite the new man working with Horgan as a selector last year

carryharry

I think we need to relax a little on this issue.

Eamon O'Shea was number 1 target but he can't commit so we are better off without him imo.

I do agree that this committee need to get a move on and pick someone sooner rather than later, the 1/4 finals this weekend throw up a much needed chance to see new talent.

I honestly think Ken Hogan deserves this job, he turned out a very good U21 team this year even though hopes were limited within the County. They played to their strengths and were very committed to Ken's gameplan as wins in Cork & Limerick proved.

The current panelists held onto next year should not be looking towards a manager for inspiration imo after the debacle we witnessed in August. They need discipline and new direction alright and Ken can provide that, as regards aims for next year. Well trying to win back the respect of the supporters should be enough to straighten the vessel so to speak.

Ken Hogan for me lads.
Put William Maher in his management team also with a view to being top man in 2-3 years.
Maybe John Sheedy too considering his success with Portroe so far this year too.

Opinions?

Davin Stand

A very good common sense post, although I wonder is William Maher ready to step up after just 1 year as Minor Manager. I would like him to have a longer apprenticeship at Minor or Under 21. I agree that the 2012 panel have a lot of ground to make up with supporters.

carryharry

carryharry wrote: »

I think we need to relax a little on this issue.

Eamon O'Shea was number 1 target but he can't commit so we are better off without him imo.

I do agree that this committee need to get a move on and pick someone sooner rather than later, the 1/4 finals this weekend throw up a much needed chance to see new talent.

I honestly think Ken Hogan deserves this job, he turned out a very good U21 team this year even though hopes were limited within the County. They played to their strengths and were very committed to Ken's gameplan as wins in Cork & Limerick proved.

The current panelists held onto next year should not be looking towards a manager for inspiration imo after the debacle we witnessed in August. They need discipline and new direction alright and Ken can provide that, as regards aims for next year. Well trying to win back the respect of the supporters should be enough to straighten the vessel so to speak.

Ken Hogan for me lads.
Put William Maher in his management team also with a view to being top man in 2-3 years.
Maybe John Sheedy too considering his success with Portroe so far this year too.

Opinions?

I couldn't argue against Ken. He is a good man and he has been dedicated to Tipperary hurling the last 10 years. He seems to have learned an awful lot from his spell as senior manager from 04-06.

I think himself, TJ Connolly and co done a wonderful job with the u21s this year. The lads they started played with absolute heart and fire and even when they lost to Clare i couldnt complain because Ken had them as prepped as he could possibly do. They were well disciplined.

I suppose if i had to take Eamon or Liam Sheedy out of the equation i would have had Ken 3rd choice over Nicky English and now that 1 and 2 have opted against it i would agree with looking in Ken Hogans direction. William Maher is showing alot of promise and is a good sort but like his minor football counterpart Davy Power, i think he is a few years off the senior job should either man want it.

Is John Sheedy Liam's brother? i heard him give an interview on Tipp fm the day before Portroe contested the north final and i couldnt help but take a shine to his enthusiasm. Not sure of his exact experience but i would hope the new manager would look at what himself or Michael Ryan of Fethard could bring to the table as selectors.

Davin Stand

Davin Stand wrote: »

A very good common sense post, although I wonder is William Maher ready to step up after just 1 year as Minor Manager. I would like him to have a longer apprenticeship at Minor or Under 21. I agree that the 2012 panel have a lot of ground to make up with supporters.

Id agree with that. William is a bright lad but very young yet. Has a great future ahead of him. Interestingly enough, speaking of that minor team i notice that Noel Morris speaks to the team minutes before every game.

tippspur

premierstone wrote: »

Indded and it wasn't today or yesterday this began, I remember been at a u-21 game a few years back and the ''official attendance'' was announced and there was an audiable laugh from the stand.

I think I remember that myself,some joke.

tippspur

We will probably and up with John Mc Intyre :mad:

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

We will probably and up with John Mc Intyre :mad:

God above that would be all we need. I don't think the county board are fans of him though.

Worse still would be John Leahy who went into Mullinahone's county minor winning management set up earlier this year and fell out with the manager of that set-up almost immediately.

Alot of criticism aimed recently at the prospect of Colm Bonnar but I admired him for stating in the media that the best candidates for the job should be interviewed first. Given the ego's of certain personnel writing on Tipperary hurling in the paper thinking their flawed methods are better then ones that actually work i thought it was refreshingly honest of Bonnar to admit that certain candidates are better positioned to take the job.

tippspur

All that's left is Hogan and Mc McIntyre Gunner,not happy I can tell ya.

OAOB

I think Hogan is a good candidate but having a bad spell in charge previously could work against him. I'm sure he has developed his managerial style in the subsequent years but i also think he would enter the camp with some players having pre-conceived notions of what he is about, a fresh start is needed and i don't think we will get that with Hogan (i'd be happy to be wrong)
I was impressed with McIntyre in 2010 but the Galway players stopped working for him in 2011, from the reports i've read he was to blame.
If we are to pick from inside the county i think we could do worse than Dinny Cahill, he clearly has passion for hurling and with the right back room team i reckon he could reignite the passion in Tipp hurling.
It's worth remembering that we have a young panel with huge potential and personally I think if we can find the right person to lead and inspire them (like Sheedy did) we can be very strong contenders year in year out.
No matter what happens i'll be out supporting Tipp next year, can't wait.

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

All that's left is Hogan and Mc McIntyre Gunner,not happy I can tell ya.

Hogan wouldn't altogether be bad and they should ask TJ Connolly to go in with him.

As for John Mc a big no no. Galway were primed to push on especially after 2010 and a good manager would have built on it.

carey2010

In my opinion Hogan might have the potential but you have to remember there is a big difference between managing a senior team to that of an underage team as Ryan and Dunne showed us the hard way during their stint farce isnt the word..... Hogans last spell of being in charge of the boys wasnt successful but in fairness the team he was over wasnt up to the standards of the team we have now but I feel that the past might just hold him back... In saying this if Hogan is manager i shall be supporting them like the true blue ive always been

John McIntyre on the other hand would be the start of another famine hes just not up to our high standards and Id feel as if we werent being fair to the players or supporters by offering this alternative

I shall be supporting the minors next week up in croker again anyone else heading up???

Davin Stand

Early results from this afternoon's Intermediate Hurling Quarter Finals. Silvermines beat Moyne-Templetuohy (aet) and Sean Treacy's beat Ballybacon by 3 points.