The Tipperary GAA (Club and intercounty) Discussion thread 2012

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

Spot on randd, one thing we do better in Tipp than anyone else is over react and down our own. Declan and co took on a job that no one else wanted because it was a poisoned chalice and need to be given time, how was anyone suprised with yesterday, they are training 6 nights a week of course they are going to be heavy legged, the training they are doing is designed to have them peak in August/September, not February. Donagh Maher and Shane Bourke were two huge pluses aswell, but that seems to have been lost in all the doom and gloom.

Actually you'll find that Donagh Maher and Shane Bourke were mentioned and fair enough he took a job others were afraid to take but that was never going to absolve him from any future blame. Last year we didnt peak in September. We bombed big time and same mistakes will occur again as this management team are far too lapsy daisy about their business...yes we suffered bad days at the office with sheedy. i was there for the mauling in nowlan and the disaster down on the banks of the lee but the difference is that the situation was rectifed in the coming months and the majority had every confidence it would be.

We knock our own, because apart from Sheedy in recent years, no manager has instilled any form of professional set up in the county. None of them buy into psychology and the same tactics are used persistantly knowing we are up against the best fielders in the game. OK ill admit i was encouraged to see Noel drop back the odd time thats one thing ill give them but Tipp had a mentality built up where they could go toe to toe with Kilkenny and now the inferiority complex has been built up again due to too much casualness. And Ryan was so negative when he spoke to the tv cameras prior to and after the game yesterday

Look if we dont win the league then no biggy. But we needed to show Kilkenny that we are serious about winning this cup back in September. We needed to compete with them for everything. Get right in their faces and show there would be no free meals this year. Pride was at stake and now the camp is even more demoralised then it was at 2.29pm yesterday.

Yes the players need to take their own share too but how can they be convinced that they can earn another celtic cross when their manager dont sound convinced and the trainer seems to be falling out with all in sundry?

Bury the head in the sand if you like....this aint going away trust me.

premierstone

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually you'll find that Donagh Maher and Shane Bourke were mentioned and fair enough he took a job others were afraid to take but that was never going to absolve him from any future blame. Last year we didnt peak in September. We bombed big time and same mistakes will occur again as this management team are far too lapsy daisy about their business...yes we suffered bad days at the office with sheedy. i was there for the mauling in nowlan and the disaster down on the banks of the lee but the difference is that the situation was rectifed in the coming months and the majority had every confidence it would be.

We knock our own, because apart from Sheedy in recent years, no manager has instilled any form of professional set up in the county. None of them buy into psychology and the same tactics are used persistantly knowing we are up against the best fielders in the game. OK ill admit i was encouraged to see Noel drop back the odd time thats one thing ill give them but Tipp had a mentality built up where they could go toe to toe with Kilkenny and now the inferiority complex has been built up again due to too much casualness. And Ryan was so negative when he spoke to the tv cameras prior to and after the game yesterday

Look if we dont win the league then no biggy. But we needed to show Kilkenny that we are serious about winning this cup back in September. We needed to compete with them for everything. Get right in their faces and show there would be no free meals this year. Pride was at stake and now the camp is even more demoralised then it was at 2.29pm yesterday.

Yes the players need to take their own share too but how can they be convinced that they can earn another celtic cross when their manager dont sound convinced and the trainer seems to be falling out with all in sundry?

Bury the head in the sand if you like....this aint going away trust me.

Im not burying my head anywhere Im been realistic, yesterdays game meant fcuk all in the bigger scheme of things, and I have been in thurles with the lads over the last few weeks, they are training 6 times a week, of course they were going to be heavy legged and stuck to the ground, this will ot be an issue come summer.

The only big area of concern I would have is the tactics and this persistance with launching high ball in to our forwards, which is suicidal, it worked against Waterford last year because they have one of the worst FB lines in the modern game, but it will not work against KK, it very nearly got us beaten by Dublin infact.

1-9 we are as good as anyone KK included, Noel McGrath and Eoin Kelly, Bonner Maher and John O'Brien are all match winners so realistically we need two out of Callinan, the Ryan cousins, Pa Bourke, Shane Bourke, Buggy, John O'Neill etc to step up to the plate, we lost a first round league game wawy to KK time to calm down abit lads, no one will remember who won that game in 7 months time, it is irrelevant.

premierstone

Matt Santos wrote: »

Again, this is Feb and there is nothing won at this time but the problems are evident for all to see.
The six backs had a good enough day. Donagh was superb and is one that will kick on in my opinion. Cahill was solid along with Curran so the full back line is virtually cast in stone! O'Mahony was huge at center and more than held his own with both wings showing the rest that you have to be willing to go that extra yard at this level.
Ryans approach to the backs is pretty standard. They know their job and just go out and do it! They are great ball winners and are up against the most formidable six forwards to play in unison! The concession of scores and its rate are not the problem. Only KK are regularly putting twenty plus pts against them.
Midfield is where it starts to unravel. I actually think that Ryan and Co are happy with the pairing and expect them to challenge the KK duo eventually but I think that they never will. Indeed, as Tipp gunner has said Young did an adequate job on Fennelly as he was not overly effective but I see that as a reflection of Fennellys game than Youngs influence.
After Tipp Gunners comment about height and trajectory I am now a convert. Everybody seen the KK wing backs catch balls all day over the forwards. Funny that when we were hurling the mantra from the line was simple to that extraordinary talent! If the ball is there you are entitled to pull on it and collateral damage to the back is acceptable!!

Taking a look at the first 15 mins of last years AI it struck me that the ball seemed to break very favourably to KK. But, this was not the case. All the KK players seem to be able to react to fast breaking ball QUICKER than anybody else. If its over a foot or over 15 yds they are on it like..... cats!! The Tipp players enjoy the usual reaction to strange breaks and collect in my view 50 % of that ball but the KK players seem to enjoy an 80% success of collecting that type of ball. I am not sure can this be physically trained into a panel but it happens with alarming regularity to our neighbours! To the casual observer it looks like "lucky breaking ball". Maybe its a hunger. A desire. A need. A will to possess the sliotar but whatever it is Tipp have less of it than KK at the moment.

Because of the standard plan that Tipp seem to operate on, that they will out hurl all opposition, they continually trip up against the KK defence. They are content to bunch it up down the middle and occasionally beat the one on one out the wing and corner. Tipp will find space and "out hurl" the Galways, Limericks and Corks at the moment but Cody has the key and solution to that approach. When we took them in 2010 it was a game that was much more spread out and the forwards got the chance to go one on one with a single back and invariably got the score.

Pa Bourke was our best forward yesterday and took all his frees with ease. McGrath was only ok and the rest were below that. Sorry but O'Brien had a clear cut chance that if the same had been given to any of the KK forwards it was buried. His substitution again no surprise. But it seems that we have little left to replace him..

M

A few things here I cant agree with Padraic Maher was brutal yesterday, should have been taken off at HT, if TJ Reid had he's scoring boots on he could have made double figures.

David Young was shocking also, I havent watched it on TV but I was watching him closely yesterday off the ball and he is so slow its astounding hes an intercounty player, I have seen boats turn quicker.

Pa Bourke was not our best forward, he actually never touched a ball in open play, I like him as a player and is very skillfull, but he is too cowardly and needes to make more use of himself, he has never really been effective this time of the year so I wouldnt overly worry about that.

Noel McGrath was head and shoulders above the other 5 starting forwards and covered a huge amount of ground, probably would have been more effective if had been left wing forward but did a huge amount of unseen work off the ball.

I do agree with you about KK getting the breaks, they dont they simply work harder than other teams and like in all walks of life you make your own luck.

OAOB

premierstone wrote: »

Im not burying my head anywhere Im been realistic, yesterdays game meant fcuk all in the bigger scheme of things, and I have been in thurles with the lads over the last few weeks, they are training 6 times a week, of course they were going to be heavy legged and stuck to the ground, this will ot be an issue come summer.

The only big area of concern I would have is the tactics and this persistance with launching high ball in to our forwards, which is suicidal, it worked against Waterford last year because they have one of the worst FB lines in the modern game, but it will not work against KK, it very nearly got us beaten by Dublin infact.

1-9 we are as good as anyone KK included, Noel McGrath and Eoin Kelly, Bonner Maher and John O'Brien are all match winners so realistically we need two out of Callinan, the Ryan cousins, Pa Bourke, Shane Bourke, Buggy, John O'Neill etc to step up to the plate, we lost a first round league game wawy to KK time to calm down abit lads, no one will remember who won that game in 7 months time, it is irrelevant.

This is my big worry too, our forwards aren't physically going to match up with Kilkenny backs under the dropping ball. I thought our backs played fairly well yesterday (think getting Shane Maher back is a major plus) but the ball they are delivering to the forwards doesn't give us our best chance of winning it. Its great seeing the ball being cleared a mile but its not always the smartest option.

I don't agree with the pessimism being shown by some here but i am worried by the tactics we employed last year and was hoping to see a smarter game plan this year but yesterdays game showed no improvement. Declan Ryan and his staff have a lot of work to do in the next few months and i'm hoping they are aware some things need changing.

I hope the fitness training is done for the year and ball work starts now, our touch was attrocious at times yesterday, lads not able to rise the ball again and again, no reason for it at this level.

ReacherCreature

premierstone wrote: »

The only big area of concern I would have is the tactics and this persistance with launching high ball in to our forwards, which is suicidal, it worked against Waterford last year because they have one of the worst FB lines in the modern game, but it will not work against KK, it very nearly got us beaten by Dublin infact.

But the tactics are the core of the long term issues. If they're not changed we will not win games or struggle to do so. They were used versus Dublin and they gave us hell, like you said. Used twice last time versus Kilkenny and they won. Even Clare gave us grief for a bit.

They must be changed. Plain and simple. It's a sin seeing a lot of the puck outs go to waste.

We lost yesterday's game in part because of poor tactics, with other reasons too.

My worry isn't because of the game yesterday. It stretches back to the Championship last season. Management failed with awful tactical decisions. That's fine. But what's tormenting me is the failure to realise this failure. Changes and lessons should have been taken aboard. A team must adapt and change to overcome adversity in my book.

carey2010

Its obvious we need a change of tactics even a blind person can see apart from the management team, the wrong tactics were used lst year in the all Ireland and we're seen the exact same thing this year it simply isn't good enough.If Declan is to quit as the rumours suggest who will succeed him or is poor Declan getting the blame for someone else's mistake on the management team???

carey2010

carey2010 wrote: »

Its obvious we need a change of tactics even a blind person can see apart from the management team, the wrong tactics were used lst year in the all Ireland and we're seen the exact same thing this year it simply isn't good enough.If Declan is to quit as the rumours suggest who will succeed him or is poor Declan getting the blame for someone else's mistake on the management team???

the main criticism i have of Declan is that he identified that tipp were beaten all over the field and failed to win any dirty ball.....yet he done absolutely nothing about it from the sideline

carey2010

Deleted User wrote: »

the main criticism i have of Declan is that he identified that tipp were beaten all over the field and failed to win any dirty ball.....yet he done absolutely nothing about it from the sideline

Could'nt agree more if you look at any game Liam Sheedy was the manager at he was running up and down the sideline like a mad man shouting encouragement and motivating the team whereas Declan just stands there with his arms folded how are players meant to get motivated by that. Now this has got nothing personal to do with Ryan or any member of the backroom team but has a Tipperary fan who goes to every single match its evident the team needs major improvements which i personally believe we wont see til he goes hes just not management material that is just my personal opinion.

Sure look if he proves me wrong ill be glad to eat my words......but im not optimistic im afraid

carey2010

Oh i will gladly hold my hands up and admit i doubted him if Tipp make progress and improvements but i cant see that happening. I was just looking at the 2010 AI there last night its unbelievable the difference of the team now and then. I think what sickens me the most is that the team is a very skillful one and capable of winning games its just a pity the fire and hunger they had back then has quenched but hopefully it can be ignited yet again as for the solution i cant really see one.

In hurling we won the waterford crystal cup today whilst Johnny '€110k per annum' Evans poor run of results continues. we lost to wexford by 15 points and they had two men sent off.

Time for Johnny to get the exit door also. We cant afford his salary as it is and in return we are getting mediocrity.

ReacherCreature

Any top contributers today? Any one at the game? Nothing on TV or radio iirc.

ReacherCreature

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Any top contributers today? Any one at the game? Nothing on TV or radio iirc.

Wasnt at either myself today. Double header next week in the stadium. Season ticket will cover both games.

tippspur

Deleted User wrote: »

In hurling we won the waterford crystal cup today whilst Johnny '€110k per annum' Evans poor run of results continues. we lost to wexford by 15 points and they had two men sent off.

Time for Johnny to get the exit door also. We cant afford his salary as it is and in return we are getting mediocrity.

He's hardly getting that much money is he? I thought we were supposed to be making progress in the Football but the latest results would say otherwise.at least we won the Hurling anyway.

tippspur

tippspur wrote: »

He's hardly getting that much money is he? I thought we were supposed to be making progress in the Football but the latest results would say otherwise.at least we won the Hurling anyway.

Johnny took €50k of a salary and claimed €60k in 'expenses'.

Waterford crystal win is only papering over the cracks in the hurling in my opinion. Dont mean to be negative but there is very little to be positive about in all honesty.

carey2010

Deleted User wrote: »

Johnny took €50k of a salary and claimed €60k in 'expenses'.

Waterford crystal win is only papering over the cracks in the hurling in my opinion. Dont mean to be negative but there is very little to be positive about in all honesty.

Couldn't agree more there is absolutely nothing to be positive about no offense to Clare and not being cocky but if we hadn't of beaten them i think we'd be calling it a day on Tipperary hurling for 2012. This is what gets to me yeah we won the game fare enough but we should be aiming to win against the big teams i really can't see us winning anything this year the way things are going it will be an achievement to get into the munster final.

ormond lad

Nenagh CBS straight through to All Ireland semi-final on Paddy's weekend after Ulster reps pull out

Tipperary u21's beat Kilkenny by 2 points in a challenge in Ballyragget last night. Bubbles, Denis Maher and Cathal Barret were particularly impressive. 1-19 to 1-17 with the bulk of scores coming from play. Very enjoyable. Pitch in Ballyragget was immaculate and a credit to them considering the time of year it is.

nowayjosie

Hi Guys
My 12yr old wants to take up hurling now where do I start? is there a place where he could try to learn some of the skills? we're based near Clonmel any advice would be greatly appreciated

daniels.ducks

Plenty of good clubs around. Commercials, Clonmel Óg, Moyle Rovers, Cahir and Clerihan who have a brilliant structure in at under-age although the senior side of the club is still in development.

nowayjosie

Thanks a million for that, do you know if it will matter that he has no skills at all at the moment and he knows it a big step to take but wants to give it 100% but he's nervous

carey2010

Any predictions for sunday lads or any news on the team being played...Hopefully Shane Bourke gets a chance to prove what hes capable of this weekend.

Patsy fyre

carey2010 wrote: »

Any predictions for sunday lads or any news on the team being played...Hopefully Shane Bourke gets a chance to prove what hes capable of this weekend.

Tipperary will play Galway in round 2 of the Allianz Hurling League Division 1A on Sunday March 11th at 2:30pm in Semple Stadium Thurles.

Team News

The Tipperary SH team for Sunday is

1 Brendan Cummins

2 Donagh Maher

3 Paul Curran (Captain)

4 Michael Cahill

5 John O'Keeffe

6 Conor O'Mahony

7 Padraic Maher

8 James Woodlock

9 Brendan Maher

10 Pa Bourke

11 Noel McGrath

12 Shane McGrath

13 John O'Neill

14 Brian O'Meara

15 Shane Bourke


Id fancy a Tipp win by 3 or 4 points.

tippspur

We would want to be winning this game or the league campaign will be over early for us.

daniels.ducks

nowayjosie wrote: »

Thanks a million for that, do you know if it will matter that he has no skills at all at the moment and he knows it a big step to take but wants to give it 100% but he's nervous

Buy him a hurley and a tennis ball, allow him to build up confidence in it before taking the pitch. Still plenty of time. Was it John Leahy who only took up hurling at the age of 14?

digzy

nowayjosie wrote: »

Thanks a million for that, do you know if it will matter that he has no skills at all at the moment and he knows it a big step to take but wants to give it 100% but he's nervous

i went to the same cbs as nicky english. our pe teacher loved telling anyone who'd listen how he didn't pick up a hurl till he went there at 12.........and we know how he turned out;)

I know its a cliche, but its the taking part that counts. once he gets to know a few lads hopefully he'll enjoy it and keep it up. great camraderie from sports not just gaa. plus it's good for discipline. i doubt the clubs in clonmel are 'james stephens' or 'sarsfields' so he'll be grand. maybe send him off to the club to which his school is affiliated.

digzy

carey2010 wrote: »

Any predictions for sunday lads or any news on the team being played...Hopefully Shane Bourke gets a chance to prove what hes capable of this weekend.

hopefully he'll get a similar haul to last years clash with galway. i thought we'd unearthed the new eoin kelly!

digzy

digzy wrote: »

hopefully he'll get a similar haul to last years clash with galway. i thought we'd unearthed the new eoin kelly!

Bourke is a super player. A real gem. How he didnt make the all ireland bench last sept is beyond me tho that said i think festy warranted his own spot albeit it should have been ahead of another forward.

Sunday is hard to call. Galway apparently gone very physical so expect a battle. Can Decky and Tommy respond to it? So far they have proved they havent the minerals.

tippspur

digzy wrote: »

hopefully he'll get a similar haul to last years clash with galway. i thought we'd unearthed the new eoin kelly!

Jaysus yeah I remember that game,some display from Shane Burke that day ok.Galway put in a good display in there last game so I can't see this being anything but another hard game for Tipp.

carey2010

digzy wrote: »

hopefully he'll get a similar haul to last years clash with galway. i thought we'd unearthed the new eoin kelly!

We did but its just a shame the management dont think the same!!